Darnold Is A Problem

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 hour ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Any chance Indy reimburses us back the three 2nd rounders we gave them for Darnold?. Well, couldn't hurt to ask.

Yes hindsight is always 20/20 but now looking back giving up those 3 extra 2nd round picks was devastating; especially considering the fact that D.K Metcalf was 2019's very last pick of 2nd round. 

Which is why I'm super excited about the thought of drafting Trevor Lawrence #1 overall while keeping all of our draft capital. 

Even after drafting Trevor Lawrence we'll have another 3 first round picks and another 2 second round draft picks over the next two drafts and could you imagine drafting another 5 players with Becton/Mims type of A+ potential around Trevor Lawrence throughout our next two drafts and behind A+ available salary cap under JD too? I can't imagine. 

 

[Integrity28]

13 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Look. The Darnold story is super simple.

You found a kid who has all the physical tools of a QB, albeit only an average arm.  You stuck him at the position, and called him a QB.  You put him in a position where he didn't actually need to be a QB because his physical ability and the talent around him was far superior to his opponents, so he only had to play backyard QB.  No reads, no progressions.  Just guys getting open.

Then, you get him to the NFL, and still, at no point has he become an actual QB, and you put him in a league where the windows are tight and guys are actually covered, no matter what team you're on, and suddenly, he needs to be an actual QB.  But, he can't.  And, it's too late.  It's not the coaches fault.  He's just simply not an NFL QB.  The majority of the people on earth can't do it.  There's a reason why there's only a dozen or so good ones on the planet at any given time.

Shorter version: you put him behind an awful OL, condition him to assume he’s under heavy pressure every drop back, then criticize him for playing that way when he isn’t.

[jetstream23]

8 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Being honest, given there was no preseason, handing Morgan some live reps over the next five games isn't a terrible idea.  You figure JD has to sign a veteran backup behind our new rookie QB.  So what's Morgan about in 2021?  The only risk is he's good and we win a couple of games...

Play everybody IMO.  And I mean everybody.  They should try to get every guy on the PS at least one game up at the big league.

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Here's one who played until last year:  Eli Manning.  His third year he was regressing, all the papers and fans were screaming "Move on!"  Goes on to win two Super Bowls against The Devil himself.

Yep, Eli Manning is the other.  So at most there are 3 QB's in NFL history who played about as poorly as Darnold has his first 3 years and went on to success.  Compared to dozens and dozens who continued to suck.

And none of those guys showed the complete lack of mental toughness that Darnold has displayed over that 3-year period.

He's a bad bet. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Shorter version: you put him behind an awful OL, condition him to assume he’s under heavy pressure every drop back, then criticize him for playing that way when he isn’t.

This version of the story would be meaningful if he wasn't doing a lot of the same sh*t in college that he does in the pros.  

He was a very flawed QB long before the mean old Jets "ruined" him.  

[southparkcpa]

6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Did he?  I was at that game as well.  I remember a lot of nice plays against a terrible defense/team, but I also remember a mind-numbingly stupid interception that we were fortunate didn't hurt us.

Could be....  I was with a bunch of guys and at the game we dont pay as close attention. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Shorter version: you put him behind an awful OL, condition him to assume he’s under heavy pressure every drop back, then criticize him for playing that way when he isn’t.

How does this hypothesis account for the fact that he’s fundamentally the exact same player he was at USC?

[Integrity28]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This version of the story would be meaningful if he wasn't doing a lot of the same sh*t in college that he does in the pros.  

He was a very flawed QB long before the mean old Jets "ruined" him.  

You will never teach a puppy to sit, if all he ever has the chance to learn is flinch at the sight of a rolled newspaper.

The Jets job was to teach him. You aren’t wrong, but neither am I. His entire NFL career is marred by bad protection, and bad teaching. So, it’s quite reasonable to expect him to revert to instinct and old tendencies.

At this rate, he may never end up any good. I can see a scenario where he has a Fitz-like career though. In and out of starter roles, up and down success.

 

[Integrity28]

17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

How does this hypothesis account for the fact that he’s fundamentally the exact same player he was at USC?

See reply to 80. I think you’re both arguing valid points, but my point isn’t a counterpoint to you - it’s more of an addendum.

[ZachEY]

24 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

See reply to 80. I think you’re both arguing valid points, but my point isn’t a counterpoint to you - it’s more of an addendum.

I just don't think you learn how to play QB at the NFL level.  Certainly, you get better.  But, if the fundamentals aren't there, chances are slim.  Slimmer, still, if you don't have eye-popping talent.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I just don't think you learn how to play QB at the NFL level.  Certainly, you get better.  But, if the fundamentals aren't there, chances are slim.  Slimmer, still, if you don't have eye-popping talent.

I think assessing it as uniform for all players is unrealistic. I think it comes down to the individual. 

Frankly, Sam is young - and one of his biggest issues seems to be that he’s so humble that he tries to consider EVERY bit of good/bad coaching he’s gotten. If impedes instinct, and absolutely inhibits his ability to process. 

As he gets older, who knows, maybe he finds a way to compartmentalize lessons as good/bad or useful/not. Then, instinct can sort of consume those learnings and it’ll come together.

It won’t happen here though. So, whatever. The convo now shifts to “is Trevor talented enough to insulate himself from the Jets incompetence, and succeed in spite of them?”

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I think assessing it as uniform for all players is unrealistic. I think it comes down to the individual. 

Frankly, Sam is young - and one of his biggest issues seems to be that he’s so humble that he tries to consider EVERY bit of good/bad coaching he’s gotten. If impedes instinct, and absolutely inhibits his ability to process. 

As he gets older, who knows, maybe he finds a way to compartmentalize lessons as good/bad or useful/not. Then, instinct can sort of consume those learnings and it’ll come together.

It won’t happen here though. So, whatever. The convo now shifts to “is Trevor talented enough to insulate himself from the Jets incompetence, and succeed in spite of them?”

 

You're right that he's young.  He was young and inexperienced at QB entering the pros.  Which is why people like those at Football Outsiders recommend not drafting those guys with a high pick in the first place.  It's fairly obvious to point out, but lack of experience prior to getting to the pros has the highest correlation with QB failure rate of any predictive metric.