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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

From what I read the criminals sent the bitcoin through 24 wallets and the FBI was able to to hack the last one it was in. The pipeline company was working with the FBI from the start. It seems they knew where the bitcoin was going and just had to wait until it went someplace that was vulnerable enough that they could go in and take it. It also seemed ro scare a lot of investors about security. I think some people thought this was a safe haven for drug money or similar  and just went into cash

I don't know what that means to "hack the wallet" though. We know the FBI had the private keys. The question is how did they get them. The most simple explanation is the hackers put the keys on a cloud server and the FBI got the server. If the FBI got the keys to your house and entered would you describe it as them "hacking your door"?

I'm very interested in the details from a geek out POV.

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Bitcoin won’t replace currency but it’s the new digital gold for sure as a store of value. It’s fundamentally sound with a finite amount. The government can print money any time they want and there’s

A sure sign we are heading toward an epic depression.   This is a duplication of the "tulip" bubble in Holland in the 1600's.  

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31 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't know what that means to "hack the wallet" though. We know the FBI had the private keys. The question is how did they get them. The most simple explanation is the hackers put the keys on a cloud server and the FBI got the server. If the FBI got the keys to your house and entered would you describe it as them "hacking your door"?

I'm very interested in the details from a geek out POV.

The article actually said they cracked the password. Is that what you mean by keys?

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23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The article actually said they cracked the password. Is that what you mean by keys?

Whoever wrote the article (I haven't seen it) either doesn't know what they're talking about or was trying to speak in layman's terms for simplicity. Bitcoin wallets don't have passwords - they use private keys. Without the private keys you cannot access the wallet.

Private keys (and public keys) are encryption tools. It's a huge topic that I won't get into but if you're interested in learning more, start here. I don't understand encryption well enough to be teaching someone else about it. I only have a high level understanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography

 

Some wallets do also have a password to enter when sending funds, but that's just an additional thing. The core functionality relies on encryption keys and having the password without the keys would be useless. We know the FBI had the keys, it's stated in the documentation published.

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8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So what is your explanation for it?

I think the market is definitely effected by the news but it also has been going down since May. I think people don't understand what happened and that's why the news is effecting the market. The FBI didn't break bitcoin. They got the private keys somehow. The most likely way is the hackers being careless/foolish/ignorant.

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So what is your explanation for it?

Talk of increased regulation and various other issues (including nonsense like Elon Musk Tweets)that drive the price of bitcoin up and down. 

Bitcoin went from about 15k to 3k before going up to 60k and now back to 31k. No one ever promised a straight line up. 

IBM was at 181 in 2017. Then dropped to 95 in 2020. Welcome to investing where the road to riches is never a straight line. 

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5 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LOL, you think the value of crypto is tied to this one issue? 

LOL you think it isn't significant.    

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3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the market is definitely effected by the news but it also has been going down since May. I think people don't understand what happened and that's why the news is effecting the market. The FBI didn't break bitcoin. They got the private keys somehow. The most likely way is the hackers being careless/foolish/ignorant.

Agreed because if they did hack a private key that means criminals can hack a private key.  A currency backed by a meme can't survive that.  

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Just now, Biggs said:

Agreed because if they did hack a private key that means criminals can hack a private key.  A currency backed by a meme can't survive that.  

Honestly if the FBI figured out a way to magically generate the exact private key bitcoin is dead. The likelihood of that being what happened is virtually nil.

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3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the market is definitely effected by the news but it also has been going down since May. I think people don't understand what happened and that's why the news is effecting the market. The FBI didn't break bitcoin. They got the private keys somehow. The most likely way is the hackers being careless/foolish/ignorant.

I think the hackers took their shot and likely were smart enough to take significant steps to cover their tracks, but clearly the government has enough resources to break the code and find the bitcoin. 

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the market is definitely effected by the news but it also has been going down since May. I think people don't understand what happened and that's why the news is effecting the market. The FBI didn't break bitcoin. They got the private keys somehow. The most likely way is the hackers being careless/foolish/ignorant.

I honestly don't think that is the case for this reason. Upon reading a bit more, the FBI took the bitcoin from Darkside. I don't think Darkside performed the hack on Colonial, but they wrote the software that the hackers used to break into Colonials network so these were some sophisticated people they stole from. It's  possible even a sophisticated  code writer can be careless but we are talking about millions in currency here so i don't  believe a lower level person was the one in charge of the bitcoin security.  I could be wrong of course but this would be my guess. 

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

LOL you think it isn't significant.    

If the bitcoin was found yesterday and on that same day a few nations said they would NOT attempt to regulate the use of bitcoin the price would have gone up. So  yeah, it is not significant and not likely the reason the price dropped. The price had been dropping since before the hack, after the hack and now after the bitcoin was found. So not sure why you would think the drop yesterday was tied to the story. 

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Honestly if the FBI figured out a way to magically generate the exact private key bitcoin is dead. The likelihood of that being what happened is virtually nil.

We finally agree.  I'm not a conspiracy guy but just the annoucement by the government drove the profit of the ransom down.   I don't think they broke a private key.   Someone ratted them out and they probably were paid to do it. 

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16 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Talk of increased regulation and various other issues (including nonsense like Elon Musk Tweets)that drive the price of bitcoin up and down. 

Bitcoin went from about 15k to 3k before going up to 60k and now back to 31k. No one ever promised a straight line up. 

IBM was at 181 in 2017. Then dropped to 95 in 2020. Welcome to investing where the road to riches is never a straight line. 

Everything you wrote is old news, including Musks tweets from last week. The effects are most likely baked in already. Todays news I would say caused this. 

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29 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think the hackers took their shot and likely were smart enough to take significant steps to cover their tracks, but clearly the government has enough resources to break the code and find the bitcoin. 

Math says you're probably wrong. Unless we have some alien super computing power available to us.

They almost certainly got the private keys because they were stored somewhere the FBI could get them.

 

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Longer key lengths are better, but only up to a point. AES will have 128-bit, 192-bit, and 256-bit key lengths. This is far longer than needed for the foreseeable future. In fact, we cannot even imagine a world where 256-bit brute force searches are possible. It requires some fundamental breakthroughs in physics and our understanding of the universe.

One of the consequences of the second law of thermodynamics is that a certain amount of energy is necessary to represent information. To record a single bit by changing the state of a system requires an amount of energy no less than kT, where T is the absolute temperature of the system and k is the Boltzman constant. (Stick with me; the physics lesson is almost over.)

Given that¬†k¬†= 1.38 √ó 10‚ąí16¬†erg/K, and that the ambient temperature of the universe is 3.2 Kelvin, an ideal computer running at 3.2 K would consume 4.4 √ó 10‚ąí16¬†ergs every time it set or cleared a bit. To run a computer any colder than the cosmic background radiation would require extra energy to run a heat pump.

Now, the annual energy output of our sun is about 1.21 × 1041 ergs. This is enough to power about 2.7 × 1056 single bit changes on our ideal computer; enough state changes to put a 187-bit counter through all its values. If we built a Dyson sphere around the sun and captured all its energy for 32 years, without any loss, we could power a computer to count up to 2192. Of course, it wouldn't have the energy left over to perform any useful calculations with this counter.

But that's just one star, and a measly one at that. A typical supernova releases something like 1051 ergs. (About a hundred times as much energy would be released in the form of neutrinos, but let them go for now.) If all of this energy could be channeled into a single orgy of computation, a 219-bit counter could be cycled through all of its states.

These numbers have nothing to do with the technology of the devices; they are the maximums that thermodynamics will allow. And they strongly imply that brute-force attacks against 256-bit keys will be infeasible until computers are built from something other than matter and occupy something other than space.

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/25375/why-not-use-larger-cipher-keys/25392#25392

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Math says you're probably wrong. Unless we have some alien super computing power available to us.

They almost certainly got the private keys because they were stored somewhere the FBI could get them.

I think @Biggs was spot on with his explanation. They found someone who knew where the keys were and either paid them off or leveraged them somehow. 

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37 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Talk of increased regulation and various other issues (including nonsense like Elon Musk Tweets)that drive the price of bitcoin up and down. 

Bitcoin went from about 15k to 3k before going up to 60k and now back to 31k. No one ever promised a straight line up. 

IBM was at 181 in 2017. Then dropped to 95 in 2020. Welcome to investing where the road to riches is never a straight line. 

IBM has something Bitcoin doesn't have.  Cash flow, earnings and dividends.  

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27 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

True but bitcoin offers separation of money and state, which is far more important to humanity.

 

In the world of survival of the fittest that you seem to be advocating Bitcoin has no value at all.   Any asset value is based on organized society that has built in mores and trust backed by communities.   Without that all assets are worthless and simply taken by the strongest.   Those communities are the states.  States are evolving constantly to meet the future needs of the community.  We may not like it, it may not be fast enough for us but without it we would undoubtedly be much poorer.  Not that there wouldn't be winners and losers just far less winners and much more losers. 

I don't support a world where private companies or individuals operate with impunity.  Ayn Rand is interesting but clearly out of his mind.  

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In the world of survival of the fittest that you seem to be advocating Bitcoin has no value at all.   Any asset value is based on organized society that has built in mores and trust backed by communities.   Without that all assets are worthless and simply taken by the strongest.   Those communities are the states.  States are evolving constantly to meet the future needs of the community.  We may not like it, it may not be fast enough for us but without it we would undoubtedly be much poorer.  Not that there wouldn't be winners and losers just far less winners and much more losers. 

I don't support a world where private companies or individuals operate with impunity.  Ayn Rand is interesting but clearly out of her mind.  

The bitcoin community is massive and growing exponentially. Nation states are adopting bitcoin as legal tender and adding it to their reserves. 

I realize my comment about separation of money and state invokes political discussion so I take the blame for that. I will not be continuing that discussion though.

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13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The bitcoin community is massive and growing exponentially. Nation states are adopting bitcoin as legal tender and adding it to their reserves. 

I realize my comment about separation of money and state invokes political discussion so I take the blame for that. I will not be continuing that discussion though.

Barry good point agree this isn't the place.   Just so you know I have no malice toward you and really hope you do well financially.  

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Just now, Biggs said:

Barry good point agree this isn't the place.   Just so you know I have no malice toward you and really hope you do well financially.  

I never thought you were attacking me. We can disagree, that's fine. I hope the same for you.

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i was actually considering doing a little diversified crypto investing. i was thinking some in cardano, some in ripple, some in doge, some in ethereum. any suggestions? i saw someone mention rsr. 

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9 hours ago, neckdemon said:

i was actually considering doing a little diversified crypto investing. i was thinking some in cardano, some in ripple, some in doge, some in ethereum. any suggestions? i saw someone mention rsr. 

If you’re asking for investment advice here you shouldn’t be buying anything. 

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