The Marcus Maye Situation

[jgb]

8 hours ago, genot said:

I don't think Douglas ever wanted to sign Maye to an extension. He wanted him to sign that tender.

Still dont understand who the villain is from your perspective 

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, genot said:

I don't think Douglas ever wanted to sign Maye to an extension. He wanted him to sign that tender.

Then he shouldn't have signed it.  Maybe he needs a new agent.  

[genot]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then he shouldn't have signed it.  Maybe he needs a new agent.  

They we're duped like all of us we're. All of us thought a deal, fair to both sides would get done. Well, let me say most did.

[Savage69]

31 minutes ago, genot said:

They we're duped like all of us we're. All of us thought a deal, fair to both sides would get done. Well, let me say most did.

Truthfully Maye is not one of the players I care about.. But that might be just me, now if he was a All Pro I would feel different but I don't take it personal if a player and GM disagree on the players worth..  

[genot]

19 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Truthfully Maye is not one of the players I care about.. But that might be just me, now if he was a All Pro I would feel different but I don't take it personal if a player and GM disagree on the players worth..  

It's not about Maye with me. At least not in large part. It's about how players are looking about how these negotiations we're handled by the new Jet's GM. I understand it's a business. Part of running a good business is hopefully having a relationship with your employees thats built with respect and trust.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then he shouldn't have signed it.  Maybe he needs a new agent.  

I don’t understand the outrage. JD might have meant it when he said it or maybe not. Doesn’t matter. Circumstances change anyway. His job is to do the best by the team. He should be fired if he doesn’t do that because he made a player some ambiguous promise to “treat you fairly when the time comes.”

51 minutes ago, genot said:

They we're duped like all of us we're. All of us thought a deal, fair to both sides would get done. Well, let me say most did.

Player contracts are multi million dollar deals. If an agent doesn’t demand a thing in writing before recommending it to his client, he sucks.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t understand the outrage. JD might have meant it when he said it or maybe not. Doesn’t matter. Circumstances change anyway. His job is to do the best by the team. He should be fired if he doesn’t do that because he made a player some ambiguous promise to “treat you fairly when the time comes.”

Player contracts are multi million dollar deals. If an agent doesn’t demand a thing in writing before recommending it to his client, he sucks.

I agree. In retrospect, it was a mistake having Maye sign that tender.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

I agree. In retrospect, it was a mistake having Maye sign that tender.

Not sure what his options really were. As has been said many times he’s in his prime and not getting younger. We don’t yet know how JD would handle a hold out situation. No one wants to be the first to test a new gun by aiming it at his head and pulling the trigger.

[genot]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Not sure what his options really were. As has been said many times he’s in his prime and not getting younger. We don’t yet know how JD would handle a hold out situation. No one wants to be the first to test a new gun by aiming it at his head and pulling the trigger.

This is why im more sympathetic with players in this situation than some. Management is holding almost all the cards. It is what it is.

[BCJet]

Im really not sure what people expect JD to do.  

Maye is a good player, not a great player and as a free agent he and his agent are able to search out the best deal possible while also dealing with the franchise tag.  JD's job is to use the franchise tag to the organizations advantage, should he just offer more then $15 million per season to avoid negative press?

Maye is likely an $11-12 million player, if he wont accept that then we should find another solution.   Paying him $15 million "because we have cap space" isnt a smart way to fun an organization.  

[LIJetsFan]

5 hours ago, genot said:

It's not about Maye with me. At least not in large part. It's about how players are looking about how these negotiations we're handled by the new Jet's GM. I understand it's a business. Part of running a good business is hopefully having a relationship with your employees that's built with respect and trust.

Around the league up to JD's arrival, the Jets were thought of a ROAD (retire while on active duty) stop franchise.  I am very pleased that that is well behind us now.  I like the way JD conducts franchise business, especially purse strings wise.      

[jgb]

7 hours ago, genot said:

This is why im more sympathetic with players in this situation than some. Management is holding almost all the cards. It is what it is.

Same here. “Loyalty” is an absurd concept in this context. Until teams stop cutting players who get hurt, get old, lose effectiveness, why the Hell should players “honor" the non-guaranteed years of a contract? NFL contracts are made to be broken, it’s how they are designed. Everyone knows it and operates accordingly.

One of the greatest coups sports leagues have executed is convince fans that players who stuck to one team their whole career deserve some kind of special elevated moral status. And fans just choked it on down. Sheep. The billionaires are playing your emotions like a fiddle.

Teams should seek to maximize their talent while players should seek to maximize their earnings. 

 

[genot]

11 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Around the league up to JD's arrival, the Jets were thought of a ROAD (retire while on active duty) stop franchise.  I am very pleased that that is well behind us now.  I like the way JD conducts franchise business, especially purse strings wise.      

I have been up until now. I don't like the way the Maye's situation was handled. I also thought he could have made a stronger effort to bring Robby back. No real criticism there, though.

[GREENBEAN]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:33 PM, jgb said:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with Jets’ approach. This defense going to be terrible this year no need for a guy like Maye on a long term contract. Just musing how he went from the good guy team player who was better than Adams anyway when Adams was throwing his hissy fit to now being a greedy, disloyal SOB in many fans’ eyes. I get it, fans are emotionally invested. Doesn’t mean I can’t laugh about it. He was named team MVP is now being low balled. I understand the Jets perspective and his. There are no villains here.

I hear ya but In fairness we don't know if he was lowballed. All we know is that his agent went crying to the press because he has no leverage.   I haven't seen too much about Maye being greedy and I think most people would like to retain him. But our GM is being smart. 

We get Maye for $10.6 this year. Then we can tag and trade him for a 2nd-3rd next year. JD is playing the long game and Maye's camp can';t do anything about it. 

what they should do is take the guarantees and likely incentives that were in the offer. 

[LIJetsFan]

24 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I hear ya but In fairness we don't know if he was lowballed. All we know is that his agent went crying to the press because he has no leverage.   I haven't seen too much about Maye being greedy and I think most people would like to retain him. But our GM is being smart. 

We get Maye for $10.6 this year. Then we can tag and trade him for a 2nd-3rd next year. JD is playing the long game and Maye's camp can't do anything about it. 

what they should do is take the guarantees and likely incentives that were in the offer. 

That is my take as well.  Maye has every right in the world to worry about a career ending injury while tagged.  That ought to translate into coming down on his top line salary so that he can get more guarantees longer term.  Other than the fact that he is worth multi millions already, I don't envy his dilemma.        

[jgb]

4 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

I hear ya but In fairness we don't know if he was lowballed. All we know is that his agent went crying to the press because he has no leverage.   I haven't seen too much about Maye being greedy and I think most people would like to retain him. But our GM is being smart. 

We get Maye for $10.6 this year. Then we can tag and trade him for a 2nd-3rd next year. JD is playing the long game and Maye's camp can';t do anything about it. 

what they should do is take the guarantees and likely incentives that were in the offer. 

Do we really know anything? @Hackenberg - Banned

3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

That is my take as well.  Maye has every right in the world to worry about a career ending injury while tagged.  That ought to translate into coming down on his top line salary so that he can get more guarantees longer term.  Other than the fact that he is worth multi millions already, I don't envy his dilemma.        

If I'm not mistaken the ship has sailed and his only options for this season are play under the tag or sit. Unless he can convince JD to let him explore a trade... not sure if a trade re-opens the window or not.

[Defense Wins Championships]

Who really cares about Marcus Maye?

He's not a Joe Douglas kid and not only is Marcus Maye just another awful Mike Maccagnan draft pick but he's damn near 30 years old and he's the complete opposite of a "ball hawking" Free Safety.

He's only got 6 career INTs and now heading into year #5 (that's pathetic).

• 1st round pick (Jets).

• 1st round pick (Seattle). 

• 2nd round pick (Jets).

• 2nd round pick (Carolina).

• 3rd round pick (Jets).

Coach Robert Saleh is already licking his chops at an opportunity to upgrade over bust Marcus Maye (could've had a real impact player in Dalvin Cook). 

• Kyle Hamilton | S | Notre Dame.

• Brandon Joseph | S | Northwestern.

• Bubba Bolden | S | Miami (FL). 

• Tykee Smith | S | Georgia. 

• Jordan Battle | S | Alabama. 

This upcoming draft class is one of the deepest SAFETY draft classes of All-Time and all 5 of these kids are mocked within the first 2 rounds. 

I can not wait until we finally upgrade over Marcus Maye (who's an overated stiff back there) and find ourselves a real game changing Safety. 

Who cares about "Marcus Maye"?

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:47 PM, BCJet said:

Im really not sure what people expect JD to do.  

Maye is a good player, not a great player and as a free agent he and his agent are able to search out the best deal possible while also dealing with the franchise tag.  JD's job is to use the franchise tag to the organizations advantage, should he just offer more then $15 million per season to avoid negative press?

Maye is likely an $11-12 million player, if he wont accept that then we should find another solution.   Paying him $15 million "because we have cap space" isnt a smart way to fun an organization.  

The bolded part is untrue. I take for granted a team is willing to spend less on a player if they know the prior team is entitled to upwards of two 1st round picks. Some teams - many, I'm sure - wouldn't ante up any draft picks higher than maybe round 3 or 4 for a very good but not great safety, which buys the privilege of offering that player an $11-12MM/year contract.

So while in the literal sense he could shop himself around, in practical terms he could not. So yeah he signed his tag tender, but he had little other option but to do just that: the Jets were so far under the cap they didn't need to rescind the tag to be able to sign anyone else. 

As far as the last sentence? Though I've seen more than a few straw-man arguments railing against it, really I can recall zero people in this entire thread suggesting the Jets should have offered Maye $15MM (nor $14MM nor $13MM) per season; most of us don't even believe that the Jets "had to" even offer Maye an extension at all (beyond the franchise tag season). 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The bolded part is untrue. I take for granted a team is willing to spend less on a player if they know the prior team is entitled to upwards of two 1st round picks. Some teams - many, I'm sure - wouldn't ante up any draft picks higher than maybe round 3 or 4 for a very good but not great safety, which buys the privilege of offering that player an $11-12MM/year contract.

So while in the literal sense he could shop himself around, in practical terms he could not. So yeah he signed his tag tender, but he had little other option but to do just that: the Jets were so far under the cap they didn't need to rescind the tag to be able to sign anyone else. 

As far as the last sentence? Though I've seen more than a few straw-man arguments railing against it, really I can recall zero people in this entire thread suggesting the Jets should have offered Maye $15MM (nor $14MM nor $13MM) per season; most of us don't even believe that the Jets "had to" even offer Maye an extension at all (beyond the franchise tag season). 

The Jets can, however, opt to trade Maye. Jets could permit Maybe to seek out a possible trade and then decide whether to accept or not. Not saying they would or should, but there is a way for a team to get Maye without ponying up two #1's.

[Defense Wins Championships]

I don't even want Marcus Maye to play here in 2021. I hope he sits out during training camp and gets fined every single day.

Quinnen Williams @ only 23 years of age is the only Mike Maccagnan draft pick that I'm praying Joe Douglas can sign long term (not no damn 28 year old career nothingness Marcus Maye).

• Leonard Williams = 2020 3rd & 2021 5th. 

• Jordan Willis = 2022 6th (in exchange for a 2021 7th). 

• Steve McLendon = 2022 6th (in exchange for a 2023 7th). 

• Avery Williamson = 2022 5th (in exchange for a 2022 7th).

• Jamal Adams = 2020 1st and 3rd (in exchange for a 4th) and 2021 1st. 

• Sam Darnold = 2021 2nd & 2021 4th. 

Why stop now? 

• Marcus Maye = 

I'd absolutely celebrate a 2nd round pick in return and/or go nuts over an awesome 3rd/4th round picks. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

The Jets can, however, opt to trade Maye. Jets could permit Maybe to seek out a possible trade and then decide whether to accept or not. Not saying they would or should, but there is a way for a team to get Maye without ponying up two #1's.

Sure the team can accept less if they like, but I imagine it's harder to find a trade partner now who's willing to offer up anything serious.

I mean, can a new team even award him an extension now that the deadline has passed? I think even a new team would have to wait until 2022 to sign him for the 2022 season & beyond to get anything signed. 

So how high of a draft pick would another team be willing to fork over for a not-elite safety who's playing under the franchise tag? 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure the team can accept less if they like, but I imagine it's harder to find a trade partner now who's willing to offer up anything serious.

I mean, can a new team even award him an extension now that the deadline has passed? I think even a new team would have to wait until 2022 to sign him for the 2022 season & beyond to get anything signed. 

So how high of a draft pick would another team be willing to fork over for a not-elite safety who's playing under the franchise tag? 

Was musing about this in another thread. I'm not sure how extensions work under franchise tag. Teams extend guys during the season all the time -- could the/a team extent Maye for future years but this year's comp is set in stone or are all new deals verboten -- a prohibition that vests to another team if they trade for Maye during the season? I don't know.

[jgb]

32 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I don't even want Marcus Maye to play here in 2021. I hope he sits out during training camp and gets fined every single day.

Quinnen Williams @ only 23 years of age is the only Mike Maccagnan draft pick that I'm praying Joe Douglas can sign long term (not no damn 28 year old career nothingness Marcus Maye).

• Leonard Williams = 2020 3rd & 2021 5th. 

• Jordan Willis = 2022 6th (in exchange for a 2021 7th). 

• Steve McLendon = 2022 6th (in exchange for a 2023 7th). 

• Avery Williamson = 2022 5th (in exchange for a 2022 7th).

• Jamal Adams = 2020 1st and 3rd (in exchange for a 4th) and 2021 1st. 

• Sam Darnold = 2021 2nd & 2021 4th. 

Why stop now? 

• Marcus Maye = 

I'd absolutely celebrate a 2nd round pick in return and/or go nuts over an awesome 3rd/4th round picks. 

Did you cut and paste the urban dictionary definition of "cutting your nose off to spite your face"?

[Sperm Edwards]

26 minutes ago, jgb said:

Was musing about this in another thread. I'm not sure how extensions work under franchise tag. Teams extend guys during the season all the time -- could the/a team extent Maye for future years but this year's comp is set in stone or are all new deals verboten -- a prohibition that vests to another team if they trade for Maye during the season? I don't know.

I think a team that'd acquire Maye has to play by the same rules the Jets have to right now: the deadline to extend him is over.

This came up a couple years back when the Steelers were in the same situation with Bell. They had him on the trading block that summer and early fall, but no one bit because he'd be a UFA again after (what became) his holdout season. 

So another team can't do squat with Maye now to lock him up for future years. Best they can do to control him further is they'd have the option of franchise tagging him next year. That doesn't sound like much incentive to fork over a decent draft pick.

[Defense Wins Championships]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Did you cut and paste the urban dictionary definition of "cutting your nose off to spite your face"?

Na. He's just not any good. 

He was the leader of a 2-14 secondary that was atrocious after losing Adams last year. Our 2020 Defense fell off a cliff in comparison to 2019's top 10 Defense and Maye did nothingness in order to improve it. 

He won't be missed.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think a team that'd acquire Maye has to play by the same rules the Jets have to right now: the deadline to extend him is over.

This came up a couple years back when the Steelers were in the same situation with Bell. They had him on the trading block that summer and early fall, but no one bit because he'd be a UFA again after (what became) his holdout season. 

So another team can't do squat with Maye now to lock him up for future years. Best they can do to control him further is they'd have the option of franchise tagging him next year. That doesn't sound like much incentive to fork over a decent draft pick.

Thanks. What about a trade package with the pick value being conditional on him getting extended in 2022? This would be a dumb thing for JD to agree to, a team could play all sorts of games (cut and immediately re-sign, tag him again, etc). But is it possible to make such a condition?

[jgb]

44 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Na. He's just not any good. 

He was the leader of a 2-14 secondary that was atrocious after losing Adams last year. Our 2020 Defense fell off a cliff in comparison to 2019's top 10 Defense and Maye did nothingness in order to improve it. 

He won't be missed.

I really dislike the argument that if a unit was bad all the component parts are by definition bad.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

I really dislike the argument that if a unit was bad all the component parts are by definition bad.

Yep.  Especially since he applies that argument to Marcus Maye but refuses to apply it to Jamal Adams, even though the Seattle Seahawks had the # 31-ranked pass defense last season.  

[GREENBEAN]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Do we really know anything? @Hackenberg - Banned

If I'm not mistaken the ship has sailed and his only options for this season are play under the tag or sit. Unless he can convince JD to let him explore a trade... not sure if a trade re-opens the window or not.

HAHAHAHAHA. That's a brilliant pull right there my man!  Just brilliant ??? 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Thanks. What about a trade package with the pick value being conditional on him getting extended in 2022? This would be a dumb thing for JD to agree to, a team could play all sorts of games (cut and immediately re-sign, tag him again, etc). But is it possible to make such a condition?

Yes of course. Jets did that with Vilma years ago. You could look it up but I think it was something like it was for a 4th round pick that upgrades to a 2nd round pick if he signs an extension before his contract expires. So they let the contract expire the following March and then he signed a new contract - technically not an extension - like a day later or something.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes of course. Jets did that with Vilma years ago. You could look it up but I think it was something like it was for a 4th round pick that upgrades to a 2nd round pick if he signs an extension before his contract expires. So they let the contract expire the following March and then he signed a new contract - technically not an extension - like a day later or something.

Wow Jets got played. Shocking.

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

I really dislike the argument that if a unit was bad all the component parts are by definition bad.

He's got a whooping 6 career INT's and now heading into year #5. 

For a supposedly "ball hawking" FREE SAFETY?

That's absolutely embarrassing.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

He's got a whooping 6 career INT's and now heading into year #5. 

For a supposedly "ball hawking" FREE SAFETY?

That's absolutely embarrassing.

Getting warmer.

[Defense Wins Championships]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Getting warmer.

Jets fans nitpicked Adams a STRONG SAFETY due to "a lack of INTs" but at least Jamal rushes QBs, sacks QBs, hits QBs, pressures QBs, has a couple Defensive TDs and makes a lot of tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage and is an absolute monster vs. the run (like all great SSs have to be).

Marcus Maye? He does none of the above. He can't even Intercept QBs; because for a FS? @ A ball hawking position? Only 6 INTs? Heading into year #5? That's freaking pathetic man.