What’s Left For Joe Douglas To Do?

[bitonti]

19 hours ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  It will be a while dude.  Get comfy while you wait.

If JD doesn’t get fired he gets a raise 

His contract is up soon 

Is 20-46 worth a raise? 

[#27TheDominator]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Also I know Becton didn't do many tests but he graded out well too, no?

 

 

Like would not have scored as well as Wirfs though, obv:

 

Yes.  Becton was physically fine, but it was "He runs a 5.1 at 360 lbs!"  Wirfs was putting up TE numbers.  Pretty sure Becton was not going to do very well in the agility drills.  

[#27TheDominator]

25 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Get over it!  GMs miss all the time.  It’s the nature of the NFL game.  Plus the QBs available to the Jets have not exactly shined, outside Justin Fields when it comes to his running ability (his passing has a long way to go).

JD missed going for the home run during an abnormal COVID cycle when it was tougher to get full reads on QBs playing in front of empty crowds.  The same people who cry we need a franchise QB cry when we took a shot at someone with huge upside.

Big miss!  Lessons learned.

JD has hit big since missing on Wilson, parlaying that into acquiring an angry Aaron Rodgers.

It’s time to move on from the 2021 draft & Zach Wilson.

I get it.  The Jets need to win and they better or people should and will lose jobs.  We should all be hopeful the Jets turn into the 49ers who also missed BIG (much bigger than the Jets) on Trey Lance, given what they have up to acquire him.  

Some truth here and some excessive excuse making.  I get that Douglas has behaved rationally and most of his moves have made some degree of sense.  OTOH, "time to move on from the 2021 draft?"  Didn't we just get told to move on from the 2020 draft?  I sure hope we aren't being told to move on from the 2022 draft this time next year. 

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Dude they are wildly overpaying Rodgers and have no 1st Rd pick 

What future outlook? It's all in on the next year maybe 2

when it's revealed that Rodgers is a seriously declined 40 year old not even above average anymore it's all over for JD 

 

The cap isn't real and you've been whining about underspending for decades.  Your miserable takes would be given serious consideration if you didn't contradict yourself at every turn.

Keep hoping for JD's demise.  It isn't happening.  Sauce, Garrett Wilson and AVT are 3 of the "core 4" of this team moving forward (QW the other) and JD is the reason all 3 are here.  Figuring out how to keep them all (which he will) is a good problem to have.  He's not getting fired any time soon and you'll just have to deal with that.

If Rodgers fails like you keep predicting, Woody is 100 % going to give him one more crack at QB rather than be forced to flail his way through another GM search.  I'd be willing to make a substantial charity bet on that.  

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If JD doesn’t get fired he gets a raise 

His contract is up soon 

Is 20-46 worth a raise? 

It sure is will be worthy of a raise when he'll be coming off a 12-5 season.

It's a What-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The cap isn't real and you've been whining about underspending for decades.  Your miserable takes would be given serious consideration if you didn't contradict yourself at every turn.

Keep hoping for JD's demise.  It isn't happening.  Sauce, Garrett Wilson and AVT are 3 of the "core 4" of this team moving forward (QW the other) and JD is the reason all 3 are here.  Figuring out how to keep them all (which he will) is a good problem to have.  He's not getting fired any time soon and you'll just have to deal with that.

If Rodgers fails like you keep predicting, Woody is 100 % going to give him one more crack at QB rather than be forced to flail his way through another GM search.  I'd be willing to make a substantial charity bet on that.  

Besides the fact that Joe Douglas is nearing the end of the contract I'd like to address the idea that I'm hoping for the Jets to lose 

Or That I'm hoping for JD to be fired 

It's untrue. I'm hoping they prove me wrong 

They never do though 

I hope they win. I predict it won't be more than 9 games 

You guys don't think I want to sit here and call them a super bowl contender? 

I know what super bowl contenders look like the old Jets with a 40 year old QB, a 38 year old LT and a 32 year old Randall Cobb ain't it 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, bitonti said:

Besides the fact that Joe Douglas is nearing the end of the contract I'd like to address the idea that I'm hoping for the Jets to lose 

Or That I'm hoping for JD to be fired 

It's untrue. I'm hoping they prove me wrong 

I can buy the rest but the bold is bullsh*t.  

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It sure is will be worthy of a raise when he'll be coming off a 12-5 season.

It's a What-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.

you see 12 wins on this schedule 

If that happens hooray I'll be happy to be wrong 

Look at it again closely it's going to be tough to get over 10 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I can buy the rest but the bold is bullsh*t.  

I don't understand why people are so loyal to jd. He's won nothing. 

JD will be long gone and we the fans will still be here 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

you see 12 wins on this schedule 

If that happens hooray I'll be happy to be wrong 

Look at it again closely it's going to be tough to get over 10 

Schedules always look tough until the games get going.  Then all of a sudden teams that were paper tigers get exposed.  Happens every year. 

Not denying it probably WILL end up fairly tough and that the AFC is loaded.  But the Jets will also be one of the tough games on OTHER teams' schedules for once.

[jgb]

24 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Dude they are wildly overpaying Rodgers and have no 1st Rd pick 

What future outlook? It's all in on the next year maybe 2

when it's revealed that Rodgers is a seriously declined 40 year old not even above average anymore it's all over for JD 

I both think bringing in Rodgers has a significant element of self-preservation for JD and that the rumors of Rodgers’ decline are greatly exaggerated.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I don't understand why people are so loyal to jd. He's won nothing. 

Simple.  Because if JD gets fired Woody is going to be in charge of the next GM search.  The only reason we got Douglas, who unlike prior hires actually had respect around the league, was because the Johnson's were not really involved in Douglas coming here.  

He may be somewhere in the middle of the pack among GMs around the league but that is FAR better than the caliber of GMs Woody has hired before as well as the GM candidates he'd be capable of hiring moving forward.

And like I said, Douglas also drafted at least THREE players who already have proven worthy of a 2nd contract.  That's more than had been drafted for over a decade prior, total.  Low bar to clear, sure, but it is significant progress nonetheless.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I don't understand why people are so loyal to jd. He's won nothing. 

JD will be long gone and we the fans will still be here 

I can’t remember the last time the Jets drafted 3 starters in one draft who didn’t get to the top of the depth chart by default because the incumbent sucked donkey teeth.

Zach was a giant, epic, terrible whiff… but scouting college QBs is the most difficult thing to do in sport.

[sciond]

What he can do is take some of the young people they developed and are now backups into draft capital. 

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Simple.  Because if JD gets fired Woody is going to be in charge of the next GM search.  The only reason we got Douglas, who unlike prior hires actually had respect around the league, was because the Johnson's were not really involved in Douglas coming here.  

He may be somewhere in the middle of the pack among GMs around the league but that is FAR better than the caliber of GMs Woody has hired before as well as the GM candidates he'd be capable of hiring moving forward.

And like I said, Douglas also drafted at least THREE players who already have proven worthy of a 2nd contract.  That's more than had been drafted for over a decade prior, total.  Low bar to clear, sure, but it is significant progress nonetheless.

Korn & Ferry < Charley Casserly + Ron Wolf < Adam Gase? 

You sound like ******* @T0mShane 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Korn & Ferry < Charley Casserly + Ron Wolf < Adam Gase? 

You sound like ******* @T0mShane 

Much like only Nixon could go to China, only Adam Gase could rid us of Mike Maccagnan and bring us a halfway decent GM, it would seem.  

Adam Gase sucked donkey d**k but he at least got one big thing right.

[SoFlaJets]

I know what he BETTER friggin do and that is to make sure he doesn't make the exact same mistake that Bill Parcells made the last time the Jets were "supposed" to be having a Super Bowl -ready team. The year was 1999 and just like this year we will be opening up at home against one of our biggest rival rivals. That year it was the New England Patriots and Coach Parcells was so sure Vinny would be tough enough to handle whatever came his way that the Tuna decided he wouldn't even bother with a viable option just in case some unforeseen thing should happen to the starting QB.

Those of us who are old enough to remember what the world was like pre-9/11 saw an invisible gremlin reach up through the Meadowlands turf and twist Vinny's achilles tendon and ruining our "Best sure shot at another SB run". We had no back-up QB that day so our punter Tom Tupa was brought in to play both QB and punter-threw 2 TDs if I recall correctly. 

So the 3rd pre-season game the Jets played the Green Bay Packers who seemed loaded at the position they had Brett Favre, a promising young QB Matt Hasselback and they even had Rick Mirer who had been the SECOND PICK OF THE DRAFT from a few years previous and who also looked really good against us in that last meaningful pre-season game of the summer since the 4th one was always against the Eagles in what we have come to call the UPS vs Fed Ex Bowl.

You get the idea. Douglas must NOT leave us with Zach Wilson at back-up QB the same 2nd pick of the draft and a BUST like Mirer, because if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa happens to have moved along with the newer stadium and is still pissed enough to grab Aaron Rodgers' ankle then WE ARE SCREWED! Get a real NFL QB to back up #8

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I know what he BETTER friggin do and that is to make sure he doesn't make the exact same mistake that Bill Parcells made the last time the Jets were "supposed" to be having a Super Bowl -ready team. The year was 1999 and just like this year we will be opening up at home against one of our biggest rival rivals. That year it was the New England Patriots and Coach Parcells was so sure Vinny would be tough enough to handle whatever came his way that the Tuna decided he wouldn't even bother with a viable option just in case some unforeseen thing should happen to the starting QB.

Those of us who are old enough to remember what the world was like pre-9/11 saw an invisible gremlin reach up through the Meadowlands turf and twist Vinny's achilles tendon and ruining our "Best sure shot at another SB run". We had no back-up QB that day so our punter Tom Tupa was brought in to play both QB and punter-threw 2 TDs if I recall correctly. 

So the 3rd pre-season game the Jets played the Green Bay Packers who seemed loaded at the position they had Brett Favre, a promising young QB Matt Hasselback and they even had Rick Mirer who had been the SECOND PICK OF THE DRAFT from a few years previous and who also looked really good against us in that last meaningful pre-season game of the summer since the 4th one was always against the Eagles in what we have come to call the UPS vs Fed Ex Bowl.

You get the idea. Douglas must NOT leave us with Zach Wilson at back-up QB the same 2nd pick of the draft and a BUST like Mirer, because if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa happens to have moved along with the newer stadium and is still pissed enough to grab Aaron Rodgers' ankle then WE ARE SCREWED! Get a real NFL QB to back up #8

[bitonti]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Simple.  Because if JD gets fired Woody is going to be in charge of the next GM search.  

What if Woody *at this stage in his life* might actually pay for someone who's done the job before? 

32 minutes ago, jgb said:

I can’t remember the last time the Jets drafted 3 starters in one draft who didn’t get to the top of the depth chart by default because the incumbent sucked donkey teeth.

I can't remember the last time a team had 2 picks in the top 10

JJ wasn't such an amazing pick btw. He's a part time edge rusher and somewhat old as a prospect. Clemons was a better pick, 4 rounds later  

 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

What if Woody *at this stage in his life* might actually pay for someone who's done the job before? 

I can't remember the last time a team had 2 picks in the top 10

JJ wasn't such an amazing pick btw. He's a part time edge rusher and somewhat old as a prospect. Clemons was a better pick, 4 rounds later  

 

Yea I said the night of draft Clemons > JJ to a chorus of downvotes.

And four teams have picked twice in top 10 in the last 5 years. Almost once a year. And JD got a better haul than all of them with the Texans 2023 draft TBD, of course.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yea I said the night of draft Clemons > JJ to a chorus of downvotes.

And four teams have picked twice in top 10 in the last 5 years. Almost once a year. And JD got a better haul than all of them with the Texans 2023 draft TBD, of course.

the question here is how many Sauces and Garrett Wilsons a GM needs to draft to make up for a Zach?

it's a valid question and I can see both sides 

Let's say Sauce/Garrett Cancels out Zach 

the Offensive line which is supposed to be JD's specialty is still creaky 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the question here is how many Sauces and Garrett Wilsons a GM needs to draft to make up for a Zach?

Even if Sauce/Garrett Cancels out Zach 

the Offensive line which is supposed to be JD's specialty is still creaky 

Zach whiff was bad but extrapolating college QB performance to the pros is extremely difficult and I don’t think any GM has cracked that code.

I mean one things for certain, if the Rodgers experiment doesn’t go down in flames, JD will get one more shot to find “the guy” and he won’t survive another  whiff.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I know what he BETTER friggin do and that is to make sure he doesn't make the exact same mistake that Bill Parcells made the last time the Jets were "supposed" to be having a Super Bowl -ready team. The year was 1999 and just like this year we will be opening up at home against one of our biggest rival rivals. That year it was the New England Patriots and Coach Parcells was so sure Vinny would be tough enough to handle whatever came his way that the Tuna decided he wouldn't even bother with a viable option just in case some unforeseen thing should happen to the starting QB.

Those of us who are old enough to remember what the world was like pre-9/11 saw an invisible gremlin reach up through the Meadowlands turf and twist Vinny's achilles tendon and ruining our "Best sure shot at another SB run". We had no back-up QB that day so our punter Tom Tupa was brought in to play both QB and punter-threw 2 TDs if I recall correctly. 

So the 3rd pre-season game the Jets played the Green Bay Packers who seemed loaded at the position they had Brett Favre, a promising young QB Matt Hasselback and they even had Rick Mirer who had been the SECOND PICK OF THE DRAFT from a few years previous and who also looked really good against us in that last meaningful pre-season game of the summer since the 4th one was always against the Eagles in what we have come to call the UPS vs Fed Ex Bowl.

You get the idea. Douglas must NOT leave us with Zach Wilson at back-up QB the same 2nd pick of the draft and a BUST like Mirer, because if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa happens to have moved along with the newer stadium and is still pissed enough to grab Aaron Rodgers' ankle then WE ARE SCREWED! Get a real NFL QB to back up #8

I know people don't like to hear that fat **** didn't know what he was doing, but it was not hubris that cost the Jets the 1999 season.  It was the complete inability of that fat **** to understand QB play.  He tried to get a decent backup.  Tubby thought Glenn Foley was going to be a star.  He gave him a big raise to stay on the team, while he ran Neil O'Donnell out of town.  Handed the starting job to Foley who sucked, and only had Testicles on the team because of the recommendation of Bill Belichick is a scumbag.  He let Foley start, didn't replace him when he sucked.  Let Vinny play when Foley got hurt to hammer the Colts and Dolphins and then went back to Foley to sh*t the bed against the Rams.  People remember the Jets were 12-4, but they forget that they were 12-1 in games that Testicles started. 

For 1999, that fat **** dealt Foley for a 7th.  Surprisingly he selected a useful player.  Starting tackle Ryan Young who they stupidly had to give away to make cap space out of the mess the fat **** left in Texans expansion draft.  He selected Scott Zolak who had been with him for at least 4 seasons with the Pats.  They also had Ray Lucas on roster who Tubby brought with him from NE in 1997.  At least the fat **** realized those guys sucked and moved for Mirer in August.  The fat ****er used to act like Mirer vs. Bledsoe was a coin toss and he went on to play Mirer well past the point it was obvious that Lucas was a better option.  Face it.  He just sucked with QBs.  He benched Simms for Scott Bruner.  

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

What if Woody *at this stage in his life* might actually pay for someone who's done the job before? 

It's a nice thought but I'd believe that when I see it.  Every GM search prior has been a disaster so I'd rather roll with the decent/average/good GM we have now than hope Woody finally hits a home run with the next one.

And a GM with prior GM experience is, of course, never a sure thing anyways.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

If JD doesn’t get fired he gets a raise 

His contract is up soon 

Is 20-46 worth a raise? 

I don’t care about woody’s money. Aren’t you the one who criticizes others for “acting like his personal accountant?”

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's a nice thought but I'd believe that when I see it.  Every GM search prior has been a disaster so I'd rather roll with the decent/average/good GM we have now than hope Woody finally hits a home run with the next one.

And a GM with prior GM experience is, of course, never a sure thing anyways.

honest question

How many games does Joe Douglas have to lose before you agree he needs to go? 

you have them going 12-5 was it? 

what if they go 9-8

 

 

 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t care about woody’s money. Aren’t you the one who criticizes others for “acting like his personal accountant?”

it's not about woody's money it's about giving a raise and extension to the man who thought Zach Wilson at 2 was "bet the farm" such a great pick 

and who had to acquire the highest paid player in the league to make up for it 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not about woody's money it's about giving a raise and extension to the man who thought Zach Wilson at 2 was "bet the farm" such a great pick 

and who had to acquire the highest paid player in the league to make up for it 

It’s an absolute black mark on his record. But again, the QB Code hasn’t been cracked by anybody. QB is the highest whiff percentage and it ain’t close. You have to overdraft them or someone else will. I hated hated hated the Zach pick at the time no one can question my bona fides in that regard but let’s not forget that every first round QB not named Lawrence in that supposedly strong class is looking like a bust/massive overdraft. That’s the business.

And again I don’t care if Woody pays JD $100M a year.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

honest question

How many games does Joe Douglas have to lose before you agree he needs to go? 

you have them going 12-5 was it? 

what if they go 9-8

As I said, if Rodgers fails, I think JD gets one more crack at a QB.  And I think he deserves it.  So, no, I wouldn't want him fired after 9-8.  

But there'd be zero excuses left.  Nail the next QB (whether it be a draft pick or a vet) or he has to go at that point.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

honest question

How many games does Joe Douglas have to lose before you agree he needs to go? 

you have them going 12-5 was it? 

what if they go 9-8

 

 

 

If Rodgers misses time and Jets don’t qualify for the playoffs because Zach gives games away, I will be calling for JD’s head.

I see QB2 as the Jets biggest remaining need by far.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Some truth here and some excessive excuse making.  I get that Douglas has behaved rationally and most of his moves have made some degree of sense.  OTOH, "time to move on from the 2021 draft?"  Didn't we just get told to move on from the 2020 draft?  I sure hope we aren't being told to move on from the 2022 draft this time next year. 

To clarify, I meant the 2020 draft + Zach (Jets BIG miss in the 2021 draft).

Both were epic failures unless Becton can somehow beat the probabilities and become a dominant mainstay here for the next 8-10 years.

My forest thru the trees points were:

1. Drafting first round QBs is a crapshoot; JD took a big swing for the fences and struck out; the fact that Zach thrived in an COVID era empty stadium is important context given he mentally sh*ts the bed when the lights are on (might have even developed the YIPS); it's not like there was an Andrew Luck at that pick, instead you had a limited upside Mac Jones, a small school guy in Trey Lance who the 49ers traded a sh*t ton for and Justin Fields who kind of looked like crap against an NFL light defense in the National Championship game and still has to answer concerns about his passing ability; then you consider the next QB class was historically weak with Kenny Pickett as the headliner

2. Zach was drafted over 2 years ago.  JD has assembled the following talent since

2021:  AVT, Carter II; Quincy Williams

2022:  Sauce, Garrett, JJ, Breece, Ruckert, Mitchell, Clemons, Adams; Reed, Conklin

2023:  Aaron Rodgers (which was only possible because of the 2022 haul)   

Yes, he's missed on a few such as Moore & Tomlinson but that batting average & slugging percentage look pretty F-in Good.  The trend is our friend.  Now, it's time to win after starting strong last year in the first year we could have reasonably expected a playoff appearance but fell short because of those early failures.  

 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

I know what he BETTER friggin do and that is to make sure he doesn't make the exact same mistake that Bill Parcells made the last time the Jets were "supposed" to be having a Super Bowl -ready team. The year was 1999 and just like this year we will be opening up at home against one of our biggest rival rivals. That year it was the New England Patriots and Coach Parcells was so sure Vinny would be tough enough to handle whatever came his way that the Tuna decided he wouldn't even bother with a viable option just in case some unforeseen thing should happen to the starting QB.

Those of us who are old enough to remember what the world was like pre-9/11 saw an invisible gremlin reach up through the Meadowlands turf and twist Vinny's achilles tendon and ruining our "Best sure shot at another SB run". We had no back-up QB that day so our punter Tom Tupa was brought in to play both QB and punter-threw 2 TDs if I recall correctly. 

So the 3rd pre-season game the Jets played the Green Bay Packers who seemed loaded at the position they had Brett Favre, a promising young QB Matt Hasselback and they even had Rick Mirer who had been the SECOND PICK OF THE DRAFT from a few years previous and who also looked really good against us in that last meaningful pre-season game of the summer since the 4th one was always against the Eagles in what we have come to call the UPS vs Fed Ex Bowl.

You get the idea. Douglas must NOT leave us with Zach Wilson at back-up QB the same 2nd pick of the draft and a BUST like Mirer, because if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa happens to have moved along with the newer stadium and is still pissed enough to grab Aaron Rodgers' ankle then WE ARE SCREWED! Get a real NFL QB to back up #8

I don't know.

The Jets weren't winning the Super Bowl with a viable back in '99.  Just like the Jets won't win a Super Bowl with a high priced back up in this season.

Now, you want to make the argument we need a high priced back up in case Rodgers is out for a week or two, it's a reasonable argument I would disagree with it - but I can understand it.

But the analogy to the 99 Jets doesn't work.   If Rodgers goes down for the season early,  the Jets aren't going anywhere, regardless of the back up. 

[Larz]

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

[jgb]

34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know.

The Jets weren't winning the Super Bowl with a viable back in '99.  Just like the Jets won't win a Super Bowl with a high priced back up in this season.

Now, you want to make the argument we need a high priced back up in case Rodgers is out for a week or two, it's a reasonable argument I would disagree with it - but I can understand it.

But the analogy to the 99 Jets doesn't work.   If Rodgers goes down for the season early,  the Jets aren't going anywhere, regardless of the back up. 

You’re against anything that moves Zach down the depth chart.

Hate the Rodgers move? Check.

Disagree that Jets need a QB2 if Rodgers misses time because Zach is secretly good? Check.

Contradictorily then argue that if Rodgers goes down “for like the whole season” we are screwed (because Zach stinks) and thus QB2 is actually pointless? Check.

So you were aggressively wrong about Zach. So what? Man, don’t let it break you as a human and destroy the sport for you. Cause that is where you’re headed.

[SoFlaJets]

25 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know.

The Jets weren't winning the Super Bowl with a viable back in '99.  Just like the Jets won't win a Super Bowl with a high priced back up in this season.

Now, you want to make the argument we need a high priced back up in case Rodgers is out for a week or two, it's a reasonable argument I would disagree with it - but I can understand it.

But the analogy to the 99 Jets doesn't work.   If Rodgers goes down for the season early,  the Jets aren't going anywhere, regardless of the back up. 

I didn't say "high priced" but we do need a viable back-up. At this time 24 years ago it was almost exactly like this . The Jets were all over all the football magazines and Parcells was being asked what he thinks about any and everything. If Zach Wilson is the back up there's no hope, Saleh might even get fired