Let’s talk about Zach Wilson

[Joe W. Namath]

Zach looked improved last night.  Beautiful deep ball to taylor.  First game back was a success.  Excited to see him build on that vs carolina.

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Holy sh*t this is the same post I've been reading here and on JI for 20 f**king years.

How anyone could draw much of a conclusion spare a few players individually off last night is hard to understand. 

[Dunnie]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People already blaming the new OC.  Awesome.  

it was a preseason exhibition .... no real plays were called or gameplay devised ... anyone who thinks otherwise must be new to the game.

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach looked improved last night.  Beautiful deep ball to taylor.  First game back was a success.  Excited to see him build on that vs carolina.

Same ... definitely did not disappoint ... hope he gets a full half next game.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Zach keeps getting these bad offensive coordinators

Wait until LaFleur calls “the good plays” in LA

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Lance will be out of the league in a year or two.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, I don’t know, man. He’s 6’4, 230 and can run, with high end arm strength. Zach is like 5’11, 185 with no upside traits.

[Claymation]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Wait until LaFleur calls “the good plays” in LA

I thought MiLF wasn’t calling plays in LA, has that changed?

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I don’t know, man. He’s 6’4, 230 and can run, with high end arm strength. Zach is like 5’11, 185 with no upside traits.

Why do you hate him sooooo much?

[jgb]

Just now, Claymation said:

I thought MiLF wasn’t calling plays in LA, has that changed?

Who cares it was a dig at the QB excuse factory 

[Bugg]

6 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Do you understand that it is preseason?  You're not supposed to win by out scheming opponents - it is all for player analysis and conditioning.  One could argue it's more beneficial to play call predictably to better evaluate players (i.e. the defense knows we will run, let's see who can win their battles and may a play in spite of that.)

Would love to -someday-see Wilson get it. But given the contract he has and Rodgers talking about playing multiple seasons, it's the back burner. Right now this team lives or dies with Rodgers staying upright. Don't think there's much point to dwelling on Wilson any which way you look at it. 

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

This reads like a whole lot of excuses.

Same old Zach until proven otherwise.  I'm standing by that.

There are excuses and then there are valid reasons for why players play poorly or not as well as hoped.

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Would love to -someday-see Wilson get it. But given the contract he has and Rodgers talking about playing multiple seasons, it's the back burner. Right now this team lives or dies with Rodgers staying upright. Don't think there's much point to dwelling on Wilson any which way you look at it. 

Totally agree .. that situation is going to work itself out ... Till then enjoy the rise of the Jets next FQB. 🤣👍

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Do you understand that it is preseason?  You're not supposed to win by out scheming opponents - it is all for player analysis and conditioning.  One could argue it's more beneficial to play call predictably to better evaluate players (i.e. the defense knows we will run, let's see who can win their battles and may a play in spite of that.)

I didn't say anything about "out-scheming" Cleveland.  There is a big middle area between the extremes of predictable play calling and "out-scheming" and opponent.  It could have been something as simple as instead of running on 1st and 2nd down every series to mix it up.  They didn't have to reveal any formations or exotic plays.  Just set plays up and keep opponents off balance as the best OCs do. I understand that they may have been keeping it simple since it was a bunch of rookies and 2nd and 3rd stringers, and they may have been focusing on working on the rushing attack, but the latter seems kind of silly since barring injury, none of those players will be on the field in the regular season, and the starting OL and RBs weren't out there.

[JKlecko]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:31 PM, T0mShane said:

I thought that the presence of Rodgers and the nicer tone of Hackett would produce results, but Zach still plays the position where everything is a surprise to him on every snap. Compare his performance to Dorian Thompson Robinson last night. Which guy looked like the 2nd overall pick and which guy looked like the Day 3 project? And Wilson has been doing this for three years.

It will, Tom, but this was the 1st preseason game.  He had only had OTAs and 6-7 practices before last night.  His issues won't get resolved overnight.  He showed that he had made progress last night.  That's a positive start.

DTR wasn't cast into a horrible situation with crappy coaching, needing to totally change his fundamentals and the way he played the position to fit the scheme.  Stefanski has changed his scheme to fit the talents of Deshaun Watson and DTR, and maybe Mond.  MLF was inflexible and did nothing to help Zach develop.  That dumb MFer was trying to have a rookie QB exploit weaknesses in the opponent's secondary in that rookie QBs first 3-4 games of the season, rather than trying to help him get into a groove and build confidence.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

It will, Tom, but this was the 1st preseason game.  He had only had OTAs and 6-7 practices before last night.  His issues don't resolved overnight.  He showed that he had made progress last night.  That's a positive start.

DTR wasn't cast into a horrible situation with crappy coaching, needing to totally change his fundamentals and the way he played the position to fit the scheme.  Stefanski has changed his scheme to fit the talents of Deshaun Watson and DTR, and maybe Mond.  MLF was inflexible and did nothing to help Zach develop.  That dumb MFer was trying to have a rookie QB exploit weaknesses in the opponent's secondary in that rookie QBs first 3-4 games of the season, rather than trying to help him get into a groove and build confidence.

I would agree with this if Zach Wilson has ever demonstrated the ability to do anything well. He’s horrific from the pocket and has zero composure or accuracy while on the move. No coordinator is fixing that, particularly now that the org isn’t invested in his development. We’re just running out the clock with Wilson. 

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Bugg said:

Would love to -someday-see Wilson get it. But given the contract he has and Rodgers talking about playing multiple seasons, it's the back burner. Right now this team lives or dies with Rodgers staying upright. Don't think there's much point to dwelling on Wilson any which way you look at it. 

Many fans find it hard to let go of a highly-drafted QB. They’ll cling to that hope until he’s off the team and then move onto the next and repeat the cycle all over again.

[jgb]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I would agree with this if Zach Wilson has ever demonstrated the ability to do anything well. He’s horrific from the pocket and has zero composure or accuracy while on the move. No coordinator is fixing that, particularly now that the org isn’t invested in his development. We’re just running out the clock with Wilson. 

If he was drafted by the Pats, would any Jet fan be worried about him “turning it around?” No, we would be laughing our asses off. Hell, we mock Mac Jones who is 5 times the pro QB that Wilson is.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

If he was drafted by the Pats, would any Jet fan be worried about him “turning it around?” No, we would be laughing our asses off. Hell, we mock Mac Jones who is 5 times the pro QB that Wilson is.

I’m trying to imagine Bill Belichick interviewing Wilson for thirty seconds and not simply walking away from the table.

[Barton]

It's a shame they didnt lock up Mike White on a cheap multi year extension a year ago.

He could have sat for 3-5 years, learned under Aaron and boom, we have a succession plan once Aaron retires.

 

[Kleckineau]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m trying to imagine Bill Belichick interviewing Wilson for thirty seconds and not simply walking away from the table.

Probably 10 secs but not if Lisa was with him.

[Kleckineau]

10 minutes ago, Barton said:

It's a shame they didnt lock up Mike White on a cheap multi year extension a year ago.

He could have sat for 3-5 years, learned under Aaron and boom, we have a succession plan once Aaron retires.

 

Mike White may get himself killed out there. Guy stands in there like he is Big Ben but he is built like a waif.

[Barton]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Mike White may get himself killed out there. Guy stands in there like he is Big Ben but he is built like a waif.

He got decked while having THE BALLS to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball KNOWING he was about to get smashed.

Rare trait. Zach runs backwards like a little kid. 

If I recall, White's pocket presence and sense of the pass rush was very good. Was never smacked not knowing it was coming.

Never had a strip fumble, I believe. 

[Kleckineau]

31 minutes ago, Barton said:

He got decked while having THE BALLS to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball KNOWING he was about to get smashed.

Rare trait. Zach runs backwards like a little kid. 

If I recall, White's pocket presence and sense of the pass rush was very good. Was never smacked not knowing it was coming.

Never had a strip fumble, I believe. 

Everything you say is true however he is not built to withstand the courage he has.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Everything you say is true however he is not built to withstand the courage he has.

He was an odd choice to back up Tua just for this reason. They could easily have one of those Pennington/Fielder days. Wonder if they’ll carry an emergency QB. 

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I don’t know, man. He’s 6’4, 230 and can run, with high end arm strength. Zach is like 5’11, 185 with no upside traits.

I still have no clue what people are talking about when they say Zach has elite skills that made him worthy of # 2 overall.

A strong arm?  Cool, JaMarcus Russell had one of those too.  Is there a 2nd skill I’m supposed to be impressed with?  There’s nothing else about his game skill-wise that is upper echelon compared to other NFL QBs in the league today.  

If you want to say a prospect has elite pro skills he’s gotta be a freak athlete like Hurts or Lamar Jackson, physically imposing (with a heavy dose of freakishness) like Cam Newton or Josh Allen, OR he has to have incomparable accuracy like the Brees, Rodgers, Burrow, etc.  Wilson isn’t in any of those categories.

He’s a midround project QB masquerading as something much more and has a legion of supporters who blindly agree.  It’s bizarre.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

He got decked while having THE BALLS to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball KNOWING he was about to get smashed.

Rare trait. Zach runs backwards like a little kid. 

If I recall, White's pocket presence and sense of the pass rush was very good. Was never smacked not knowing it was coming.

Never had a strip fumble, I believe. 

White also had a 4.1 % sack rate here whereas Wilson’s is 9.7 %.  And White never got to play with AVT.  

People took one play and made it seem like White is a guy who will take massive hits all the time based on purely on his lack of mobility.  Not so because he typically got the ball out quickly.

Meanwhile supposed “elite escapability”-blessed Zach Wilson got sacked at more than 2x a higher rate working with the same OL (+ AVT for a few games).  

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I still have no clue what people are talking about when they say Zach has elite skills that made him worthy of # 2 overall.

A strong arm?  Cool, JaMarcus Russell had one of those too.  Is there a 2nd skill I’m supposed to be impressed with?  There’s nothing else about his game skill-wise that is upper echelon compared to other NFL QBs in the league today.  

If you want to say a prospect has elite pro skills he’s gotta be a freak athlete like Hurts or Lamar Jackson, physically imposing (with a heavy dose of freakishness) like Cam Newton or Josh Allen, OR he has to have incomparable accuracy like the Brees, Rodgers, Burrow, etc.  Wilson isn’t in any of those categories.

He’s a midround project QB masquerading as something much more and has a legion of supporters who blindly agree.  It’s bizarre.  

I keep coming back to the fact that the first time they spoke to Zach face-to-face was at his Pro Day, where he was bloated to register a fake weight and he refused to run. Despite all that, Douglas and Saleh decided then and there that he was going to be their QB1. (The Zach pro day was March 26th, Darnold was traded April 5th). The Jets fell for a Sidd Finch hoax

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I keep coming back to the fact that the first time they spoke to Zach face-to-face was at his Pro Day, where he was bloated to register a fake weight and he refused to run. Despite all that, Douglas and Saleh decided then and there that he was going to be their QB1. (The Zach pro day was March 26th, Darnold was traded April 5th). The Jets fell for a Sidd Finch hoax

After another topsy turvy season, Wilson has fallen out of favor, but the business relationship between Jets' owner Woody Johnson and Wilson's Uncle, David Neeleman is the wildcard in this scenario. 

Neeleman is the founder of JetBlue airlines, the official airline of the Jets. 

This high-level connection has the strong potential to keep Wilson grounded in New York and off of the trading block

[Bugg]

58 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

After another topsy turvy season, Wilson has fallen out of favor, but the business relationship between Jets' owner Woody Johnson and Wilson's Uncle, David Neeleman is the wildcard in this scenario. 

Neeleman is the founder of JetBlue airlines, the official airline of the Jets. 

This high-level connection has the strong potential to keep Wilson grounded in New York and off of the trading block

Also has the potential for the owner to indulge his pal by releasing or trading his nephew. 

Go back to that draft and having watched a mess of Wilson's tapes coupled with his itty bitty size, have no idea what they were thinking. Could have taken Sewell or Parsons and ridden Darnold out for another year until there was a better option. Wilson was never the better option. Looks like a classic case of groupthink gone wild. 

Alas, keep Rodgers healthy and...yeah, that's about it. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Zach is having a fantastic camp.  Better then any of us could have expected.  Every jet fan should be thrilled w/ his improvement.

Lets go zach!!!!!!

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Also has the potential for the owner to indulge his pal by releasing or trading his nephew. 

Go back to that draft and having watched a mess of Wilson's tapes coupled with his itty bitty size, have no idea what they were thinking. Could have taken Sewell or Parsons and ridden Darnold out for another year until there was a better option. Wilson was never the better option. Looks like a classic case of groupthink gone wild. 

Alas, keep Rodgers healthy and...yeah, that's about it. 

The entire time the Jets have managed Wilson and his family with knowing he can’t play. Wilson’s career feels like one big favor. Kid couldn’t look happier to be a backup.

[Joe W. Namath]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The entire time the Jets have managed Wilson and his family with knowing he can’t play. Wilson’s career feels like one big favor. Kid couldn’t look happier to be a backup.

He is having an outstanding camp and improving everyday.  Enjoy it buddy.

[JKlecko]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I would agree with this if Zach Wilson has ever demonstrated the ability to do anything well. He’s horrific from the pocket and has zero composure or accuracy while on the move. No coordinator is fixing that, particularly now that the org isn’t invested in his development. We’re just running out the clock with Wilson. 

That's an absurd take.  Based on your posts when you used to be on ganggreen.com, I expected better from you. He was horrific last season and part of his rookie season.  He didn't come into the NFL that way.  If you were running for your life your rookie season and had no talent around you, you probably would have developed the same bad habits that he did.  He has demonstrated that he can do things well.  You, like many other Jets fans, have written him off already, and you either don't want to see positives from him because that doesn't fit your agenda, or you're no longer capable of looking at things objectively.

Both Saleh and JD have said that they still believe in Zach.  One of the reasons that Rodgers said that he wants to come here was that he believes in Zach and wants to help him.  I believe that is part of the reason the Jets wanted Rodgers. If they had given up on Zach entirely, they would have signed Carr as a FA to at least a 4-year deal, and saved the draft picks and the delay in getting their new QB here.  That would have also allowed them to bring in a quality backup QB (since according to you, they think Zach is sh*t).  The fact that they didn't do that speaks volumes that in fact, the Jets have NOT given up on Zach and in fact, still believe in him.  I suggest you go back and watch the Titans game from Zach's rookie season.  He makes throws in that game that few other QBs in the NFL can make.

Due to colossal screw ups by JD and Saleh, Zach was set up to fail rather than succeed.  They told him that he wouldn't have to carry the team, yet that is in fact what they expected him to do his rookie season.  They expected him to do things that were totally unrealistic (change his basic footwork and his mindset about how he plays 180 degrees while starting and playing at a high level), with zero good coaching, while that idiot MLF was expecting him to exploit weaknesses in opposing secondaries in the first 3-4 games of his career.

 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

He is having an outstanding camp and improving everyday.  Enjoy it buddy.

Link?

[Joe W. Namath]

One of our young players is having an outstanding camp and improving w/ each practice.  And the majority of jet fans are miserable about that.

You could not explain the disease any better.