1JD & Hard Knocks

[Larz]

Hope they bring it lol

 

 

[Dunnie]

 
Go to a Hard Core Military unit. The CG, the Colonel, the CO doesn't break bad and scream and yell at people, he doesn't want the guys overtrained, he wants morale high and doctrine understood and instilled. 
The Old Man has Captains and NCOs to handle the wall to wall counseling and screaming at the dumb privates. But on a rare occasion, the CO will personally correct an issue, and when he does, everyone takes note. 
 
Saleh worships the SEALs. His Bible is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. He's all about communication and instruction, as well as leading up and down the chain. 
 
Everything I've seen from Saleh fits that leadership model perfectly. Would we rather have a guy telling players they're stupid, screaming and yelling, and enforcing arbitrary and nonsensical rules? Who would you play harder for. Or look to escape?

I agree with your point ... But the results have to follow ... and guys need to feel responsible and experience the ramifications of failure.

My entire family military Col to Lt, Yelling and screaming is typically an indicator of weakness. However, there is only so much hand holding. Results need to be evident.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I agree with your point ... But the results have to follow ... and guys need to feel responsible and experience the ramifications of failure.

My entire family military Col to Lt, Yelling and screaming is typically an indicator of weakness. However, there is only so much hand holding. Results need to be evident.

Interesting that you simultaneously hold these beliefs AND still defend Zach Wilson, a guy who was undeservedly handed a QB1 job for 2 years and is currently getting handed an undeserved QB2 job in his 3rd.

[Dunnie]

Interesting that you simultaneously hold these beliefs AND still defend Zach Wilson, a guy who was undeservedly handed a QB1 job for 2 years and is currently getting handed an undeserved QB2 job in his 3rd.

Always thought Zach should have sat year one. He was a prospect that required coaching.

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[Dunnie]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Interesting that you simultaneously hold these beliefs AND still defend Zach Wilson, a guy who was undeservedly handed a QB1 job for 2 years and is currently getting handed an undeserved QB2 job in his 3rd.

Mishandling of an incoming NCO or Private is considered a waste of resources and typically leads to a reprimand or reassignment ... see MLF. The failure is at the leadership level .....

Edited August 18, 2023 by Dunnie

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Mishandling of an incoming NCO or Private is considered a waste of resources and typically leads to a reprimand or reassignment ... see MLF. The failure is at the leadership level .....

[JohnJ]

On 8/16/2023 at 7:31 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

I guess Zach Kuntz ran the wrong route on the TD?  "Run the wrong route, get the ball".  Hilarious!  (though concerning)

 

Yep. He got on the TE coach pretty good. At first the coach laughed because AR said it jokingly, but AR kept at it and you could see the coach didn't like that.

AR is quite serious about that kind of sh*t and it's not acceptable to him. As it should be. Too bad if you don't like it. Clean that sh*t up.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Yep. He got on the TE coach pretty good. At first the coach laughed because AR said it jokingly, but AR kept at it and you could see the coach didn't like that.

AR is quite serious about that kind of sh*t and it's not acceptable to him. As it should be. Too bad if you don't like it. Clean that sh*t up.

AR is like the quality control guy for the coaching staff.  It's kind of embarrassing that our coaches need that.  We're very lucky to have AR on this team for plenty more than the on-field stuff.

[Jet_Engine1]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:53 PM, Dunnie said:

I agree with your point ... But the results have to follow ... and guys need to feel responsible and experience the ramifications of failure.

My entire family military Col to Lt, Yelling and screaming is typically an indicator of weakness. However, there is only so much hand holding. Results need to be evident.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Agreed. That's why you have NCO's. I learned by the time I was a 24 year old E-5 (as high as I went... 😆) that outside of Basic, the screamers and yellers were usually poor leaders, and their guys would actively look to undermine them or just sham. Teach, explain, and holding people accountable quietly and respectfully works with almost everyone.  If they aren't getting it, at first I assumed it was my fault. After a reasonable amount of trying, you realize some people just aren't interested in improving.  That's when counseling and paperwork starts... Followed the same philosophy over my career as a Firefighter and Officer. The last house I ran, my Hydrantman was a guy that had done 20 years in SF, got out an E-7, became a FF at 40. Was in an ODA in The sandbox multiple times. He told our Batt Chief that I was the only Officer he wanted to work with. So, I guess I was doing something right.

Hell,  I've never even yelled at my kids. My Dad (Miss ya, Dad!) Yelled at me like he was Gunny Hartman, and to be honest, I hated it. It didn't work, and as a kid, it just made me try to hide my ****ups instead of asking for help. My boys are respectful, nice kids. Because we explain expectations to them, listen to them, and instead of erupting at stuff, I try to give guidance. And yeah, no sh*t, my boys are actually pretty decent kids. 

 

Anyway, where are the people that were crying about how Saleh hated Mims, and wouldn't play him because he was mean or didn't like the guy. Saleh held him accountable by sidelines him and not giving him playing time, but never humiliated him or sh*t talked him in the media. 

 

Dude just got cut by Detroit. I guess Saleh had him pegged as a bum, and was right.

 

Anyone that has an issue with Salehs "Leadeeship Style" has no idea what the **** they're talking about.  

[Hal]

9 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Anyone that has an issue with Salehs "Leadeeship Style" has no idea what the **** they're talking about.  

We only see a small sliver of what he does.   
 

The offense was poorly run for 2 years.   The defense got better.   That’s all we really know.    In the end, it’s easy.  
 

There is a playoff mandate.  Rodgers might buy them a second year if it goes wrong.  
 

But it looks like they have built what was needed right on schedule.

He’s a defensive coach to his core and I don’t love that.   They can’t help but try to be overly conservative and ball control oriented lol.   But if he’s the right guy it’s ok   

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

11 minutes ago, Hal said:

We only see a small sliver of what he does.   
 

The offense was poorly run for 2 years.   The defense got better.   That’s all we really know.    In the end, it’s easy.  
 

There is a playoff mandate.  Rodgers might buy them a second year if it goes wrong.  
 

But it looks like they have built what was needed right on schedule.

He’s a defensive coach to his core and I don’t love that.   They can’t help but try to be overly conservative and ball control oriented lol.   But if he’s the right guy it’s ok   

 

Eh they're only that way when they have a rookie or poor QB. They're not holding back if they have a top 5 QB. 

[Hal]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Eh they're only that way when they have a rookie or poor QB. They're not holding back if they have a top 5 QB. 

MiLF was in over his head and assembled an inexperienced staff that was also in over their head.   
 

It was a nepotism hire that went bad.  Not a great look.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, Hal said:

MiLF was in over his head and assembled an inexperienced staff that was also in over their head.   
 

It was a nepotism hire that went bad.  Not a great look.  

Idk what any of that has to do with me commenting on the fact that defensive coaches aren’t really conservative. But alright. 

[Bleedin Green]

44 minutes ago, Hal said:

MiLF was in over his head and assembled an inexperienced staff that was also in over their head.   
 

It was a nepotism hire that went bad.  Not a great look.  

Yet funny how folks around here were sucking LaFleur dry and had Ulbrich as the scapegoat in 2021.  There became some serious revisionist history once Ulbrich quickly proved that completely wrong and LaFleur became the fall guy for the Jets taking one of the biggest all-time NFL draft busts.

I honestly had no issues with his firing, but his offense was still put on immediate display and the unit improved with literally anyone else on the field, including all stars like a semi-retired Joe Flacco, Mike White, Josh Johnson, and the immortal Chris Streveler.  There were plenty more problems with this team well beyond that hire, as he quickly got himself a new job under the NFL's offensive wunderkind, but for whatever reason some were so smitten with JD they refuse to acknowledge that he was easily a bottom 5 GM during his first 3 years on the job.

Here's hoping that all dramatically changes this season, but if it does the reasons will go well beyond a new OC who got fired after less than a year at his last job.

[Hal]

10 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yet funny how folks around here were sucking LaFleur dry and had Ulbrich as the scapegoat in 2021.  There became some serious revisionist history once Ulbrich quickly proved that completely wrong and LaFleur became the fall guy for the Jets taking one of the biggest all-time NFL draft busts.

I honestly had no issues with his firing, but his offense was still put on immediate display and the unit improved with literally anyone else on the field, including all stars like a semi-retired Joe Flacco, Mike White, Josh Johnson, and the immortal Chris Streveler.  There were plenty more problems with this team well beyond that hire, as he quickly got himself a new job under the NFL's offensive wunderkind, but for whatever reason some were so smitten with JD they refuse to acknowledge that he was easily a bottom 5 GM during his first 3 years on the job.

Here's hoping that all dramatically changes this season, but if it does the reasons will go well beyond a new OC who got fired after less than a year at his last job.

That’s revisionist.   Offense scored the same no matter who the QB was.   There was no red zone offense beyond trick plays.  MiLF sucked.  

[FootballLove]

On 8/8/2023 at 10:57 PM, fullblast said:

Revis Island indeed

Revis Island had become Revis Continent 🤣

He actually looks better than he did in that last game in Buffalo 

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, Hal said:

We only see a small sliver of what he does.   
 

The offense was poorly run for 2 years.   The defense got better.   That’s all we really know.    In the end, it’s easy.  
 

There is a playoff mandate.  Rodgers might buy them a second year if it goes wrong.  
 

But it looks like they have built what was needed right on schedule.

He’s a defensive coach to his core and I don’t love that.   They can’t help but try to be overly conservative and ball control oriented lol.   But if he’s the right guy it’s ok   

 

Remind me about the time a Saleh led Jets team quit on him. Aside from Parcells and Groh, I can name multiple games where the team just flat out and obviously quit on the field. Yeah, it's year 3, but even though they weren't winning much, I haven't seen a give up game at all yet, even with Zach playing.

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, Hal said:

MiLF was in over his head and assembled an inexperienced staff that was also in over their head.   
 

It was a nepotism hire that went bad.  Not a great look.  

💯 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Hal said:

That’s revisionist.   Offense scored the same no matter who the QB was.   There was no red zone offense beyond trick plays.  MiLF sucked.  

It’s not revisionist, it’s stats, lol.  Zach Wilson was 4th in line behind White, Flacco and Josh Johnson in productivity.  Just because they all sucked doesn’t mean it isn’t true that the other QBs performed better.  They did.  

[Hal]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s not revisionist, it’s stats, lol.  Zach Wilson was 4th in line behind White, Flacco and Josh Johnson in productivity.  Just because they all sucked doesn’t mean it isn’t true that the other QBs performed better.  They did.  

You did this and you were like “look it way better” but you don’t it’s all basically the same number.  “But it’s 1.1 points more or whatever” lol 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Hal said:

You did this and you were like “look it way better” but you don’t it’s all basically the same number.  “But it’s 1.1 points more or whatever” lol 

So yes, statistically better, and the highs were also higher (four games with 30+ pts vs one for Zach).

You were wrong and I accept your surrender.  

[Hal]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So yes, statistically better, and the highs were also higher (four games with 30+ pts vs one for Zach).

You were wrong and I accept your surrender.  

Lol and the average was still about the same.  

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, Hal said:

Lol and the average was still about the same.  

“About” the same:  A word used by someone who lost the fight, sir. 

[Hal]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

“About” the same:  A word used by someone who lost the fight, sir. 

Post it all again.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Hal said:

Post it all again.  

The one that shows Zach was the 4th-ranked QB on the team?  Gladly!

[Jetsfan80]

2021-22 Jets:  A more complete look at the #'s when comparing across the QBs:

 

Non-Zach QBs (12 starts)

• Record:  4-8 (.333)
• PPG:  18.9
• Passing Yards/Game:  278.5
• Completion %:  59.9
• TD %:  2.2
• INT %:  2.2
• Sack %:  3.8
• On Target %:  67.5
• Bad Throw %:  19.0

 

Zach Wilson (22 starts)

• Record:  8-14 (.363)
• PPG:  17.2
• Passing Yards/Game:  182.8
• Completion %:  55.2
• TD %:  2.4
• INT %:  2.9
• Sack %:  9.7
• On Target %:  64.8
• Bad Throw %:  22.9

In addition:  Four of the team’s five 30+ point games from 2021-22 came without Zach under center despite Zach getting by far the most starts (22 out of 34) of the group of QBs in that span.  

So there you have it.  Zach had the non-Zach QBs beat in only Winning % and TD %.

In every other category that matters, the non-Zachs had the edge, including a substantial edge in Yards/Game, Completion % and Sack %. 

The Yards/Game gap demonstrates a big reason why Zach was so inferior:  He wasn't asked to do much in most of his starts.  You expect some of that out of a young QB, but not this much of a gap.  Clearly, MLF trusted the veteran QBs to do their job whereas Zach couldn't be trusted.  And for good reason.

And again:  Given that the Jets kept the depth chart behind Zach weak almost by design (so they could hand him undeserved QB1 duties from the jump, much like they've done for basically every young QB here under Woody Johnson), there shouldn't have even been a gap at all.  Zach should have been better than this crew of journeymen.  Maybe even significantly so.  

[Hal]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

2021-22 Jets:  A more complete look at the #'s when comparing across the QBs:

 

Non-Zach QBs (12 starts)

• Record:  4-8 (.333)
• PPG:  18.9
• Passing Yards/Game:  278.5
• Completion %:  59.9
• TD %:  2.2
• INT %:  2.2
• Sack %:  3.8
• On Target %:  67.5
• Bad Throw %:  19.0

 

Zach Wilson (22 starts)

• Record:  8-14 (.363)
• PPG:  17.2
• Passing Yards/Game:  182.8
• Completion %:  55.2
• TD %:  2.4
• INT %:  2.9
• Sack %:  9.7
• On Target %:  64.8
• Bad Throw %:  22.9

 

In addition:  Four of the team’s five 30+ point games from 2021-22 came without Zach under center despite Zach getting by far the most starts (22 out of 34) of the group of QBs in that span.  

So there you have it.  Zach had the non-Zach QBs beat in only Winning % and TD %.

In every other category that matters, the non-Zachs had the edge, including a substantial edge in Yards/Game, Completion % and Sack %. 

The Yards/Game gap demonstrates a big reason why Zach was so inferior:  He wasn't asked to do much in most of his starts.  You expect some of that out of a young QB, but not this much of a gap.  Clearly, MLF trusted the veteran QBs to do their job whereas Zach couldn't be trusted.  And for good reason.

And again:  Given that the Jets kept the depth chart behind Zach weak almost by design (so they could hand him undeserved QB1 duties from the jump, much like they've done for basically every young QB here under Woody Johnson), there shouldn't have even been a gap at all.  Zach should have been better than this crew of journeymen.  Maybe even significantly so.  

1.7 points even with the outliers.   That’s the same.  

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, Hal said:

1.7 points even with the outliers.   That’s the same.  

Accounts for 7 spots in the points per game rankings from 2022 but sure keep thinking that.  Also fun to ignore all the other stats I posted and focus in on the one you think was “close enough.”

[Larz]

 

[Green Ghost]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:35 AM, slimjasi said:

Oh, Joe wasn't alone on that one. 

 

A LOT of people here were sh*tting on that McDonald pick. 

 

I remember all the names and there will be a time for retribution! 

 

 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:13 AM, Jet_Engine1 said:

Go to a Hard Core Military unit. The CG, the Colonel, the CO doesn't break bad and scream and yell at people, he doesn't want the guys overtrained, he wants morale high and doctrine understood and instilled. 

The Old Man has Captains and NCOs to handle the wall to wall counseling and screaming at the dumb privates. But on a rare occasion, the CO will personally correct an issue, and when he does, everyone takes note. 

Saleh worships the SEALs. His Bible is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. He's all about communication and instruction, as well as leading up and down the chain.

Everything I've seen from Saleh fits that leadership model perfectly. Would we rather have a guy telling players they're stupid, screaming and yelling, and enforcing arbitrary and nonsensical rules? Who would you play harder for. Or look to escape?

Saleh's version is more this though:

 

[Biggs]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:13 AM, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

 

 

Go to a Hard Core Military unit. The CG, the Colonel, the CO doesn't break bad and scream and yell at people, he doesn't want the guys overtrained, he wants morale high and doctrine understood and instilled. 

The Old Man has Captains and NCOs to handle the wall to wall counseling and screaming at the dumb privates. But on a rare occasion, the CO will personally correct an issue, and when he does, everyone takes note. 

 

Saleh worships the SEALs. His Bible is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. He's all about communication and instruction, as well as leading up and down the chain. 

 

Everything I've seen from Saleh fits that leadership model perfectly. Would we rather have a guy telling players they're stupid, screaming and yelling, and enforcing arbitrary and nonsensical rules? Who would you play harder for. Or look to escape?

It's a football team it's not an elite military unit.  I would rather have the HC teaching the players and the coaches.  The goal of a HC is not to wash out half the team.  The great HC aren't that different that the great unit coaches.  They teach players how to get the most out of their talent and how to fit into the team concept.

Lombardi for all his yelling and screaming spent most of his time coaching players and using a chalk board to diagram plays for them. 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

It's a football team it's not an elite military unit.  I would rather have the HC teaching the players and the coaches.  The goal of a HC is not to wash out half the team.  The great HC aren't that different that the great unit coaches.  They teach players how to get the most out of their talent and how to fit into the team concept.

Lombardi for all his yelling and screaming spent most of his time coaching players and using a chalk board to diagram plays for them. 

 

Tell me you didn't read my post without telling me....

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Saleh's version is more this though:

 

In other news, this is why the West Side Stadium wasn't built.

 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

21 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

In other news, this is why the West Side Stadium wasn't built.

 

 

That might be the funniest scene in the movie.