Slow Starting Saleh

[Hex]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Or is he the worst QB because of the HC?

It's kind of hard to help your QB succeed when he can't read a defense.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Hex said:

It's kind of hard to help your QB succeed when he can't read a defense.

Maybe it's kinda hard to play QB when your coach doesn't allow you to play to your strengths.

If they keep the offense open for the second week in a row (for only the second time in Zach's tenure) and Zach plays well - Saleh is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Maybe it's kinda hard to play QB when your coach doesn't allow you to play to your strengths.

If they keep the offense open for the second week in a row (for only the second time in Zach's tenure) and Zach plays well - Saleh is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

What if the offense was “open” the whole time but the QB was holding it back? What if we’re pretending it’s been “opened” because the QB threw up a wildly underthrown arm punt that Lazard could have fair caught and he threw a couple of off-target balls to his TEs that they made acrobatic catches on? 

[#27TheDominator]

The offense sure was open to start 2022.  w

Wonder what made MLF close it off.

 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The offense sure was open to start 2022.  w

Wonder what made MLF close it off.

 

We just went through two and a quarter years of video showing Jets receivers running wide open, but now these guys want to fire another offensive coordinator. 

[FidelioJet]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What if the offense was “open” the whole time but the QB was holding it back? What if we’re pretending it’s been “opened” because the QB threw up a wildly underthrown arm punt that Lazard could have fair caught and he threw a couple of off-target balls to his TEs that they made acrobatic catches on? 

Those are pretty good What If's...and good questions to ask....

Well all expect the throw to Lazard.  It's what he's being taught to do and what Rodgers has made a living on.  

Outside, single coverage, CB's back to the QB.   That ball, 90% of the time is caught, PI..that's the way the NFL is now.  

Zach should make that throw 10 out of 10 times.  You want to discount it, so be it - but the reality is, under the circumstances, it was absolutely the right throw to make...

And, of course, we know in the NFL - WR's never have to make good catches and we never see it, because all QB's put the ball 100% on target, every time.  Good observation.

 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Or is he the worst QB because of the HC?

When Aaron comes back next yr and is “consistently “ good what will be the excuse for Zach then?

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

When Aaron comes back next yr and is “consistently “ good what will be the excuse for Zach then?

Are you making a case that if Zach Wilson isn't as consistent as a first ballot HOF QB then he must suck? 

Or am I missing something?

[Jetsplayer21]

34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Maybe it's kinda hard to play QB when your coach doesn't allow you to play to your strengths.

If they keep the offense open for the second week in a row (for only the second time in Zach's tenure) and Zach plays well - Saleh is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

Blame JD. Zach just does everything a lot slower than every other qb. Reading the D, reacting then throwing. No one does it slower than zach Wilson. Which is critical when you do not have a top OL. Although it’s gotten better. A strong pass rush is ALWAYS going to eat up zach. We all know he gets scared happy feet back there when rush is coming. 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Blame JD. Zach just does everything a lot slower than every other qb. Reading the D, reacting then throwing. No one does it slower than zach Wilson. Which is critical when you do not have a top OL. Although it’s gotten better. A strong pass rush is ALWAYS going to eat up zach. We all know he gets scared happy feet back there when rush is coming. 

Surely possible.

But it's possible he was being coached improperly and Aaron Rodgers/Hackett have allowed him to play to his strengths and it's working.

I'm not saying that's the case - to be honest I think Zach reverts back to the old Zach tomorrow...

But I'm just asking the question....

For the record the OL was awful against KC....there was a strong pass rush.

[Hex]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Maybe it's kinda hard to play QB when your coach doesn't allow you to play to your strengths.

If they keep the offense open for the second week in a row (for only the second time in Zach's tenure) and Zach plays well - Saleh is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

I feel like the Chiefs game was a fluke for Zach. We'll see. If he does well this next week in a similar style to last week, I'll eat my words. But either way, he has many bad habits that he needs to fix still, or else he won't sustainably be successful in any offense the coaches try and give him.

The OL played much better in the Chiefs game than in previous games. Zach had huge pockets, and didn't have to worry about free rushers. That is a big reason (I think) for his success, not necessarily "opening up the playbook". Problem is, OL isn't going to play that well every week. Zach needs to learn to play well with an average OL.

[BP]

And under his leadership this year they haven’t scored in the first quarter. Top priority is rotation and keeping people fresh even though you’re not always playing your best players. He’s an innovative genious.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you making a case that if Zach Wilson isn't as consistent as a first ballot HOF QB then he must suck? 

Or am I missing something?

Lol. Missing a lot  No one has ever said zach can be the next Aaron rodgers lol. Consistency is nice, but need to look at overall average. Even with a good game here and there, zach average percentages/ratings are still one of the worst in NFL history. I don’t know what HC could stand a chance with a qb like that. It’s not like they haven’t given Zach enough time to throw to the very open receivers 🙈. The OL wasn’t as great as it was vs pats but if combine two, the OL scored 3rd highest in NFL. So it’s really time to stop making excuses for Zach. 
 

 

Overall, over the past two weeks combined, the Jets’ starting linemen have combined for a cumulative overall PFF grade of 65.5, placing third-best in the league over that span behind only the Eagles and Vikings.

The unit has been especially good in pass protection. In PFF’s pass-blocking grade, the unit ranked sixth-best in Week 3 (70.0) and 10th-best in Week 4 (68.1), putting them at fourth-best across the two-week span (69.1).

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Hex said:

I feel like the Chiefs game was a fluke for Zach. We'll see. If he does well this next week in a similar style to last week, I'll eat my words. But either way, he has many bad habits that he needs to fix still, or else he won't sustainably be successful in any offense the coaches try and give him.

The OL played much better in the Chiefs game than in previous games. Zach had huge pockets, and didn't have to worry about free rushers. That is a big reason (I think) for his success, not necessarily "opening up the playbook". Problem is, OL isn't going to play that well every week. Zach needs to learn to play well with an average OL.

I tend to agree with you that last week was more of a fluke than anything else, but I am holding out hope.  Because if Zach can play within the offense and make quick, decisive decision he may actually turn out to be good - the other stuff is there if he can do the pocket thing well.  Did a light go on? Was it always there and the O wouldn't allow him to get any rhythm? Or does he just suck? (I do think it's the latter, but one can dream)

Now, where I will disagree was - Zach got average OL play last week - nothing special..  Some clean pockets, some breakdowns - Becton and McGovern were pretty much awful and the running game (minus one rush from Breece) was pretty much non existent.  Zach has gotten some of the worst OL play in the league.  Free rushers should never be a thing - that's just signs of a poorly coached, disorganized offense.  There is definitely less of that with Hackett.

I seem to like Hackett more than most here.

[FidelioJet]

45 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol. Missing a lot  No one has ever said zach can be the next Aaron rodgers lol. Consistency is nice, but need to look at overall average. Even with a good game here and there, zach average percentages/ratings are still one of the worst in NFL history. I don’t know what HC could stand a chance with a qb like that. It’s not like they haven’t given Zach enough time to throw to the very open receivers 🙈. The OL wasn’t as great as it was vs pats but if combine two, the OL scored 3rd highest in NFL. So it’s really time to stop making excuses for Zach. 
 

 

Overall, over the past two weeks combined, the Jets’ starting linemen have combined for a cumulative overall PFF grade of 65.5, placing third-best in the league over that span behind only the Eagles and Vikings.

The unit has been especially good in pass protection. In PFF’s pass-blocking grade, the unit ranked sixth-best in Week 3 (70.0) and 10th-best in Week 4 (68.1), putting them at fourth-best across the two-week span (69.1).

I was simply responding to your full comment of:

When Aaron comes back next yr and is “consistently “ good what will be the excuse for Zach then?

I simply asked the question - what you were saying here...because it sounds like you're saying - if Zach isn't as good as Rodgers than he sucks. 

[FidelioJet]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Overall, over the past two weeks combined, the Jets’ starting linemen have combined for a cumulative overall PFF grade of 65.5, placing third-best in the league over that span behind only the Eagles and Vikings.

The Jets OL has been bad.  And beyond comical to say it's been third best in the league.  

Not an excuse for Zach, just the reality.  Using PFF to describe anything isn't a good idea and it's absurd when looking at OL.

I am not and have not made a single excuse for Zach Wilson.  Show me this season where I've said otherwise...

 

[rangerous]

Slow starts have been a problem for a very long time and well before saleh.  Not that he doesn’t deserve current blame but this seems to be a problem for the coach who seems to have too much faith in the ability of his defense.  They do make some good adjustments at halftime so it’s not like he’s totally clueless.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The offense sure was open to start 2022.  w

Wonder what made MLF close it off.

 

To be clear.  Zach Wilson didn't start the year playing in 2022...

And when he came in they won a lot of games - but no one..and I mean no one should be claiming they were winning with an open offense.  

Things fell apart when they had 3rd string RB's and 5th string OL across the board and playing out of position.  The O was a full on disaster last year.

Zach was awful for sure - but let's not pretend the offense was "Open" because it wasn't even close to that.  It was in pure survival mode.  Again, Zach was a big part of the problem but he wasn't the only one.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

We just went through two and a quarter years of video showing Jets receivers running wide open, but now these guys want to fire another offensive coordinator. 

I'm actually a fan of Hackett from what I've seen so far.  I think the conservative play calling was likely being pushed by Saleh and when Hackett got the green light to open things up he did and it worked.

As for the "Greg Roman Special" I think that's also the Aaron Rodgers offense.  He wants to throw the ball to the sidelines, keep it away from the middle of the field, take what's there - and look for home runs when you can. .  That' the O Rodgers/Hacket want to run and they're teaching it to Zach.  

Again, we'll see if last week was a fluke...it more than likely was.. -  But it's also possible Zach has taken to the Rodgers offense - allows him to be more confident in his throws knowing there's far less risk.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I was simply responding to your full comment of:

When Aaron comes back next yr and is “consistently “ good what will be the excuse for Zach then?

I simply asked the question - what you were saying here...because it sounds like you're saying - if Zach isn't as good as Rodgers than he sucks. 

No, zach sucks because he has 1 of worst stats of a qb in NFL history lol. No one is expecting him be Aaron rodgers. I was speaking of all the excuses for zach. OL, coaches, mean fans lol. When Aaron plays a lot better than zach has, it will prove all the excuses for zach have been BS. Mike White had much better stats last yr than Zach, and he is a very limited qb. But he quickly exposed the excuses for Zach. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

14 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

When Aaron comes back next yr and is “consistently “ good what will be the excuse for Zach then?

They’re saying ARod back week 8 now

 

 

ill believe it when I see it

[Rich Thornburgh]

10 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

No, zach sucks because he has 1 of worst stats of a qb in NFL history lol. No one is expecting him be Aaron rodgers. I was speaking of all the excuses for zach. OL, coaches, mean fans lol. When Aaron plays a lot better than zach has, it will prove all the excuses for zach have been BS. Mike White had much better stats last yr than Zach, and he is a very limited qb. But he quickly exposed the excuses for Zach. 

After Zach self destruct today this finally might be the end of him.  Woody knows this will be a rough loss and with the Eagles next week it’s gonna get really very ugly

[Jetsplayer21]

39 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

After Zach self destruct today this finally might be the end of him.  Woody knows this will be a rough loss and with the Eagles next week it’s gonna get really very ugly

Todays game is very winnable. Jets can win despite poor play from Wilson. They have grown accustomed to not depend on their qb to do much to win a game. Like buffalo game, some games last yr.
 

  But if we do lose, may be sellers at deadline. Stockpile some picks to reinforce around Rodgers next yr may be smartest thing jets can do now. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

6 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Todays game is very winnable. Jets can win despite poor play from Wilson. They have grown accustomed to not depend on their qb to do much to win a game. Like buffalo game, some games last yr.
 

  But if we do lose, may be sellers at deadline. Stockpile some picks to reinforce around Rodgers next yr may be smartest thing jets can do now. 

Jets are going to go all in on the run game today yes

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

When Aaron plays a lot better than zach has, it will prove all the excuses for zach have been BS

All I'm saying is - one of the top QB's of all times - in an offense he's played in for 5 years (vs. 4 weeks) will tell us nothing about Zach Wilson.

I'm not making excuses for Zach and I don't see anyone doing it - it seems to be propegated by a few Zach haters that people are making excuses for him.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

All I'm saying is - one of the top QB's of all times - in an offense he's played in for 5 years (vs. 4 weeks) will tell us nothing about Zach Wilson.

I'm not making excuses for Zach and I don't see anyone doing it - it seems to be propegated by a few Zach haters that people are making excuses for him.

Sorry I thought some were saying zach being so far 1 of worst qbs in history of NFL was not his fault. That is was Saleh, Hackett, LaFleur, the wind, etc. Glad no one is making excuses now for qb in year 3. He has chance in few more games to prove he can even be the QB2 next yr. Which is still a longshot, but I always like to see an upset.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Todays game is very winnable. Jets can win despite poor play from Wilson. They have grown accustomed to not depend on their qb to do much to win a game. Like buffalo game, some games last yr.
 

  But if we do lose, may be sellers at deadline. Stockpile some picks to reinforce around Rodgers next yr may be smartest thing jets can do now. 

we cant be sellers, not with Rodgers here.

whoever you want to sell they have to be good to get something worth it. you cant let anyone good go. then were not serious about winning a SB next year.

your not going to convince a 40 yr old with one year left to win a SB that a couple of 3rd or 4th rd picks are going to help him win now.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sorry I thought some were saying zach being so far 1 of worst qbs in history of NFL was not his fault. That is was Saleh, Hackett, LaFleur, the wind, etc. Glad no one is making excuses now for qb in year 3. He has chance in few more games to prove he can even be the QB2 next yr. Which is still a longshot, but I always like to see an upset.

Yeah.  Honestly,  Zach has been bad and it's inarguable.  

I was just contemplating with "what if's" 

Like what if he actually turned the corner? Does that change the way we look at MLF? 

The only thing I'm saying right now is last week he showed me something he hasn't in over 2 years.  He's had games with more yards, good QB ratings etc...this was the only game where he looked good playing within the offense - for the first time he looked like what  franchise QB is supposed to look like...  It gives me a sliver of hope that maybe something changed.

Even if it wasn't a fluke he still has a long way to go...

[Flashlite80]

When you start every game in a soft zone, you can expect teams to march right down the field, and each team has.  I mean the best set of 3 corners in the game and everybody is wide open on the first 3 drives!!!!!

Zach aside, when you run twice into a heavily stacked line then throw a 3 yard pass into an 8 man blitz, you put the defense, just off the field after a 10 play 6 minute drive, right back on the field.

If Denver goes right down the field on the opening drive against a soft zone, then Saleh and Ulbrich should be fired.  If they stack the line and we run into it, they can take Hackett with them.

The coaches have not distinguished themselves in game prep at all.  Every opposing team scores on their opening drive against us and we haven't scored on our first drive in a dogs age.

[Hex]

5 minutes ago, Flashlite80 said:

When you start every game in a soft zone, you can expect teams to march right down the field, and each team has.  I mean the best set of 3 corners in the game and everybody is wide open on the first 3 drives!!!!!

Zach aside, when you run twice into a heavily stacked line then throw a 3 yard pass into an 8 man blitz, you put the defense, just off the field after a 10 play 6 minute drive, right back on the field.

If Denver goes right down the field on the opening drive against a soft zone, then Saleh and Ulbrich should be fired.  If they stack the line and we run into it, they can take Hackett with them.

The coaches have not distinguished themselves in game prep at all.  Every opposing team scores on their opening drive against us and we haven't scored on our first drive in a dogs age.

We need Adam Gase back, but just for the opening drive

[Flea Flicking Frank]

first breaks, than gas

[Jetsplayer21]

5 hours ago, doitny said:

we cant be sellers, not with Rodgers here.

whoever you want to sell they have to be good to get something worth it. you cant let anyone good go. then were not serious about winning a SB next year.

your not going to convince a 40 yr old with one year left to win a SB that a couple of 3rd or 4th rd picks are going to help him win now.

So are we going to be able to re-sign huff ? They are not going to tag him. So wouldn’t he be able to sign back even if traded ? We have deep DL. A team headed to playoffs always could use guy like that. 

[Vudu]

If your username serious?

[Greg555]

As said above..we start games “all breaks, no gas”

So maddeningly conservative..coaching with fear.  

Better change today..and my hunch is it will.  Broncos will put up points. We’ll need 20+ to beat them imo.

 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

So are we going to be able to re-sign huff ? They are not going to tag him. So wouldn’t he be able to sign back even if traded ? We have deep DL. A team headed to playoffs always could use guy like that. 

well that makes sense. when you said sellers i was expecting a NY Mets type selling of good guys with multiple years like Verlander and Scherzer.