Did JD build the best team in football?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

43 minutes ago, slats said:

Maccagnan’s teams did not have talent like Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. The year before JD, Jamison Crowder was the team’s leading receiver and a stupidly overpaid Le’Veon Bell was at RB. 
 
I have very mixed feelings about Saleh. He’s a top level defensive coach, imo, and he’s created a more positive culture than should actually exist in that building, but his offensive choices have been questionable, at best. They all overestimated themselves when they thought an a second year GM could add a rookie head coach and rookie OC and make a rookie QB work. Massive error that they continue to pay for. Should’ve been over last year but instead Rodgers was over in four downs. I feel for Saleh when he says he’s never had a real QB, because he hasn’t. 

Macagnan had a competent offense with Fitzpatrick, Decker and Marshall, he didnt draft them, but he did have them on his roster. 

Im  not arguing for Macagnan, he was God awful, and I largely agree JD has done a better job than him.

I don't feel bad for Saleh at all, he has no QB becasue he had no legit plan in place to get one or develop one. His hand picked guy, hand picked ZW, thats on Saleh. Saleh is a bad HC, he may be a good defensive guy, but he is not a HC. Im so tired of the Jets getting these HC's who are really just glorified DC's and than trying to pin the offensive blame on everyone else except for them. As the HC, its your responsibility to bring in the right offensive people, if you don't do that, its on you, and you alone. 

[bicketybam]

58 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Macagnan had a competent offense with Fitzpatrick, Decker and Marshall, he didnt draft them, but he did have them on his roster. 

Im  not arguing for Macagnan, he was God awful, and I largely agree JD has done a better job than him.

I don't feel bad for Saleh at all, he has no QB becasue he had no legit plan in place to get one or develop one. His hand picked guy, hand picked ZW, thats on Saleh. Saleh is a bad HC, he may be a good defensive guy, but he is not a HC. Im so tired of the Jets getting these HC's who are really just glorified DC's and than trying to pin the offensive blame on everyone else except for them. As the HC, its your responsibility to bring in the right offensive people, if you don't do that, its on you, and you alone. 

Edit

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Macagnan had a competent offense with Fitzpatrick, Decker and Marshall, he didnt draft them, but he did have them on his roster. 

Im  not arguing for Macagnan, he was God awful, and I largely agree JD has done a better job than him.

I don't feel bad for Saleh at all, he has no QB becasue he had no legit plan in place to get one or develop one. His hand picked guy, hand picked ZW, thats on Saleh. Saleh is a bad HC, he may be a good defensive guy, but he is not a HC. Im so tired of the Jets getting these HC's who are really just glorified DC's and than trying to pin the offensive blame on everyone else except for them. As the HC, its your responsibility to bring in the right offensive people, if you don't do that, its on you, and you alone. 

Lol. "But he did have them on the roster" Phew boy. Really diggin deep there.

[Morrissey]

no

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Maccagnan’s teams did not have talent like Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. The year before JD, Jamison Crowder was the team’s leading receiver and a stupidly overpaid Le’Veon Bell was at RB. 
 
I have very mixed feelings about Saleh. He’s a top level defensive coach, imo, and he’s created a more positive culture than should actually exist in that building, but his offensive choices have been questionable, at best. They all overestimated themselves when they thought an a second year GM could add a rookie head coach and rookie OC and make a rookie QB work. Massive error that they continue to pay for. Should’ve been over last year but instead Rodgers was over in four downs. I feel for Saleh when he says he’s never had a real QB, because he hasn’t. 

I can see Saleh on the Todd Bowles path as HC. (Although I think Saleh is a way better defensive coach).  Just need competent QB play. Bowles finally got it. 

But it's hard to get a second chance like Bowles did, doesn't happen often.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Maccagnan had the advantage of not following five years of Maccagnan.

The Jets won 10 games in Mac’s first season -the Fitzmagic year- and followed that up with 5, 5, and 4 wins before somehow winning 7 with Gase. The roster JD took over was absolute garbage. The roster under Douglas has gotten steadily better, undermined mostly by injuries on the worst field in the sport and Zach’s poor play. They’d’ve been a playoff team with a healthy Rodgers last year. They should be one this year. 

The excuses for this guy are absurd.

Who told him to bring in a clearly declining 40 year old Rodgers?  No other team made a serious move for him.  Ask yourself why not?

Who told him to stick with Zach Wilson for 3 years (good teams like the 49ers moved on from their #3 overall pick with a few weeks of him starting)

Stop pretending like he's just a victim of bad luck.  He's not, he's done a poor job.

This year when he's brought in aging FA's and when they get hurt or, like many Jet FA's, here for a last paycheck,  it'll be more excuses.  

[Falco21]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

It comes down to much more than Rodgers.   The Jets are counting on a lot of guys with health questions.   They all stay healthy and Rodgers is the mvp Rodgers they have as good as chance as any team  . What’s the chance of that happening ?      Let’s just say I have better chance of being right on my predictions than that happening.   If you know my prediction history , you know the Jets are screwed, 

I do not think Rodgers needs to be MVP level. I do not think that is the case at all.

Last year we won 7 games with dogsh*t at QB and a horrendous Offensive Line. You are entirely correct on the health of the roster, but if the roster remains healthy, Rodgers just has to be "really good" and this team can make a deep run.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

He had his worst year as a pro?  LOL are you serious?  

Well, he did.  Not sure what you're talking about here.  He had his worst year, by far as a pro.  That point isn't even debatable.  I can't imagine why would you try.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Record time?  It's been 5 years and a 22 and 49 record.

Worst GM in Jets history is certainly arguable.  

I mean sure if you don't take any context are horribly run team and the state of the roster in front office. When he got here every single year Joe Douglas has made a men's strides and fixing not only the roster, but our organization in out is run for the first time an over a decade. Our team is run in a professional NFL way that my friend is worth it's waiting gold. That is why Joe Douglas was brought here. That is why we no longer have the Frank Gore Adam gase teams or whatever number of other terrible ideas and Ross that we had before him. Our premium picks are used on premium positions. Our contracts are team friendly. There is a plan at all times not only to win in the season but also redundant season backup plans. We have a system of backup players draft picks free agents that not only want to come here but fight for positions. We have strengths on our team for the first time and I don't know how long. I know it sucks that we had some injuries. I know it sucks that you can't just fix the line and one year that there's trial and error that humans get hurt that mistakes are made, etc. The point is the approach has been good. It has been professional. It is done correctly. Joe, Douglas is the person to think for that. Joe Douglas is the one that snared away power from our owner to let him run the team only very little input from Woody Johnson 

[bicketybam]

51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, he did.  Not sure what you're talking about here.  He had his worst year, by far as a pro.  That point isn't even debatable.  I can't imagine why would you try.  

By far? He had very similar passer ratings in 2015 and 2008.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, bicketybam said:

By far? He had very similar passer ratings in 2015 and 2008.

Stop man.

You know as well as I do what Rodgers did two years ago before season ending achilles surgery.

[bicketybam]

44 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I mean sure if you don't take any context are horribly run team and the state of the roster in front office. When he got here every single year Joe Douglas has made a men's strides and fixing not only the roster, but our organization in out is run for the first time an over a decade. Our team is run in a professional NFL way that my friend is worth it's waiting gold. That is why Joe Douglas was brought here. That is why we no longer have the Frank Gore Adam gase teams or whatever number of other terrible ideas and Ross that we had before him. Our premium picks are used on premium positions. Our contracts are team friendly. There is a plan at all times not only to win in the season but also redundant season backup plans. We have a system of backup players draft picks free agents that not only want to come here but fight for positions. We have strengths on our team for the first time and I don't know how long. I know it sucks that we had some injuries. I know it sucks that you can't just fix the line and one year that there's trial and error that humans get hurt that mistakes are made, etc. The point is the approach has been good. It has been professional. It is done correctly. Joe, Douglas is the person to think for that. Joe Douglas is the one that snared away power from our owner to let him run the team only very little input from Woody Johnson 

 

Drink the Kool Aid!

[bicketybam]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Stop man.

You know as well as I do what Rodgers did two years ago before season ending achilles surgery.

Yeah. And it was almost identical to what it did those other two years. You're the one spouting bullsh*t. It wasn't by far his worst year.

[BornJetsFan1983]

55 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

 

Drink the Kool Aid!

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I mean sure if you don't take any context are horribly run team and the state of the roster in front office. When he got here every single year Joe Douglas has made a men's strides and fixing not only the roster, but our organization in out is run for the first time an over a decade. Our team is run in a professional NFL way that my friend is worth it's waiting gold. That is why Joe Douglas was brought here. That is why we no longer have the Frank Gore Adam gase teams or whatever number of other terrible ideas and Ross that we had before him. Our premium picks are used on premium positions. Our contracts are team friendly. There is a plan at all times not only to win in the season but also redundant season backup plans. We have a system of backup players draft picks free agents that not only want to come here but fight for positions. We have strengths on our team for the first time and I don't know how long. I know it sucks that we had some injuries. I know it sucks that you can't just fix the line and one year that there's trial and error that humans get hurt that mistakes are made, etc. The point is the approach has been good. It has been professional. It is done correctly. Joe, Douglas is the person to think for that. Joe Douglas is the one that snared away power from our owner to let him run the team only very little input from Woody Johnson 

are you a joe douglass burner account? the guy or I should say you lol have had years to get results which is measured by wins and failed BIGLY

During Joe's tenure we watched the lions texans jags browns all rebuild better than us and faster than us

Joe has failed the jets miserably at the most important position in football-Wilson is an all time bust-and Arod will prove to be a terrible signing as well-it is a name to sell tickets but the reality is at his age he is destined to get hurt (as shown last year) or wash out 

Joe signed a bunch of risk /reward guys in the offseason-he will look very smart or very dumb based on their availability 

The rest of the division looks very weak now-IF the jets win the division thus making the playoffs I will give Joe all of the credit in the world-if they dont win the division and go to the playoffs Joe and Saleh should be fired .

 

 

[varjet]

3 hours ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

I can see Saleh on the Todd Bowles path as HC. (Although I think Saleh is a way better defensive coach).  Just need competent QB play. Bowles finally got it. 

But it's hard to get a second chance like Bowles did, doesn't happen often.

I am not sure Saleh is a better DC than Bowles.  Bowles does more with lesser players.  

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, he did.  Not sure what you're talking about here.  He had his worst year, by far as a pro.  That point isn't even debatable.  I can't imagine why would you try.  

No shlt, he didn’t get 5 plays under his belt.  
Of course it was his worst year.  
Ballplayers don’t play as well while hurt/injured.  Film at 11

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

No shlt, he didn’t get 5 plays under his belt.  
Of course it was his worst year.  
Ballplayers don’t play as well while hurt/injured.  Film at 11

I believe he was talking about the year before, or at least I hope he was. 

[TBJ]

No rings on both hands unless you are collecting social security.

Thank you JD, thank you!

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Im wondering if we are looking at this too small, did JD build the best team of all time, should that be the real question? 20-0 this year?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I am not sure Saleh is a better DC than Bowles.  Bowles does more with lesser players.  

So, it’s…bad? That the Jets have good players? Geesh. Tough crowd. 

[Jet Nut]

28 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I believe he was talking about the year before, or at least I hope he was. 

Probably, I was hoping he was.  But he was hurt that year, playing with inexperienced WRs.  Sometimes instead of repeating thing it’s time to look at what actually happened.  He calls these facts excuses and this is coming from the guy who thinks ZW is a better alternative to AR

[bicketybam]

30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Probably, I was hoping he was.  But he was hurt that year, playing with inexperienced WRs.  Sometimes instead of repeating thing it’s time to look at what actually happened.  He calls these facts excuses and this is coming from the guy who thinks ZW is a better alternative to AR

2022 wasn't a good year by Aaron Rodgers standards. By NYJets QB standards it would have been the second best dating back to 2004, lol. 

[TBJ]

Jets' free agency moves will 'leave a large mess if it doesn’t work,' one NFL exec says

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-jets-free-agency-mess-joe-douglas-aaron-rodgers/325106a532dfdb62ea658719

[Raideraholic]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The excuses for this guy are absurd.

Who told him to bring in a clearly declining 40 year old Rodgers?  No other team made a serious move for him.  Ask yourself why not?

Who told him to stick with Zach Wilson for 3 years (good teams like the 49ers moved on from their #3 overall pick with a few weeks of him starting)

Stop pretending like he's just a victim of bad luck.  He's not, he's done a poor job.

This year when he's brought in aging FA's and when they get hurt or, like many Jet FA's, here for a last paycheck,  it'll be more excuses.  

To be fair , if your owner has a hardon to get so called Qb . What is the Gm suppose to do.  He either does what his owner wants or your out of a job..

[FidelioJet]

19 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

To be fair , if your owner has a hardon to get so called Qb . What is the Gm suppose to do.  He either does what his owner wants or your out of a job..

There is zero proof, none that says Woody pushed ZW on him.  But there is plenty of proof that JD loved him as a prospect.  
The Woody thing is a fabrication from JetNation and nothing more. 

[doitny]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

I am not sure Saleh is a better DC than Bowles.  Bowles does more with lesser players.  

im not sure what hes doing in TB but how many UDFA has Bowels turn good? ( Huff, Adams). how many players did he get off a practice squad and turn him great? (QW). and lets not forget a pretty good slot Corner (MC2).

those are some lesser players who are not lesser players anymore. he can develop defensive players.

[doitny]

8 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Who told him to bring in a clearly declining 40 year old Rodgers?  No other team made a serious move for him.  Ask yourself why not?

this was all Woody. he forced the Favre and Tebow moves and you dont think he pushed for Rodgers? 

ask yourself why JD would want Rodgers who puts immediate presser to get to a SB when all he needed to do last year was make the playoffs? or that he picked the only QB with a massive cap hit and the only one to coast draft picks.

that is not Joe Douglass M.O

8 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Who told him to stick with Zach Wilson for 3 years (good teams like the 49ers moved on from their #3 overall pick with a few weeks of him starting)

he didnt . he stuck with him for 2 years the same as SF with Lance. 

Woody just told us that Zach isnt going anywhere if they cant trade him. so if Zach is QB3 for us will you then admit it was Woody forcing Zach on them? maybe not to draft him but he doesnt want to pay him to sit home or go somewhere else.

and Woody has a history of QB meddling. almost everybody had Zach as #2. its not that hard to see that Woody was pushing for Zach.

this whole roster is on JD. but when it comes to QBs i believe that all owners get involved and if they want someone they make their team draft them. we heard thats what happend in Carolina. the owner wanted Young and Riech wanted Stroud. we all know what happened there.

hell Dallas doesnt even try to hide it. Jerry Jones is the official GM of the Cowboys. remember when he drafted Manziel in rd 1? Quincy Carter in rd 2? is it a coincidence there 2 best QBs were Dak (RD 4) and Romo (UDFA) who were probably picked after Jones went home. i doubt he makes the low rd picks.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, doitny said:

this was all Woody. he forced the Favre and Tebow moves and you dont think he pushed for Rodgers? 

ask yourself why JD would want Rodgers who puts immediate presser to get to a SB when all he needed to do last year was make the playoffs? or that he picked the only QB with a massive cap hit and the only one to coast draft picks.

that is not Joe Douglass M.O

he didnt . he stuck with him for 2 years the same as SF with Lance. 

Woody just told us that Zach isnt going anywhere if they cant trade him. so if Zach is QB3 for us will you then admit it was Woody forcing Zach on them? maybe not to draft him but he doesnt want to pay him to sit home or go somewhere else.

and Woody has a history of QB meddling. almost everybody had Zach as #2. its not that hard to see that Woody was pushing for Zach.

this whole roster is on JD. but when it comes to QBs i believe that all owners get involved and if they want someone they make their team draft them. we heard thats what happend in Carolina. the owner wanted Young and Riech wanted Stroud. we all know what happened there.

hell Dallas doesnt even try to hide it. Jerry Jones is the official GM of the Cowboys. remember when he drafted Manziel in rd 1? Quincy Carter in rd 2? is it a coincidence there 2 best QBs were Dak (RD 4) and Romo (UDFA) who were probably picked after Jones went home. i doubt he makes the low rd picks.

 

 

I am so tired of the "It wasn't the GM it was Woody" excuse.  

I suppose Woody made JD take Sauce, GWills and Hall?  

Are all the good things JD and bad things Woody? It's kinda silly man.  This is the GM's job he doesn't get to say I WAS JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS 

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

9 hours ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Lol. "But he did have them on the roster" Phew boy. Really diggin deep there.

what in the crap are you talking about, a GM's job is to put talent on the roster, there is no law that says they have to be drafted, you can draft them, sign them, or trade for them, a GM builds the roster. And as bad as Macagnan was, and he was God Awful, he put a better offense on the field than JD did, there is no diggin deep, its simple football knowledge which you and many others on this board don't have

[doitny]

39 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I am so tired of the "It wasn't the GM it was Woody" excuse.  

I suppose Woody made JD take Sauce, GWills and Hall?  

Are all the good things JD and bad things Woody? It's kinda silly man.  This is the GM's job he doesn't get to say I WAS JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS 

 

i said its all JD but the QB. every owner gets involved in it.

so again i ask is it JD fault if Zach is still here in week 1 when Woody told you he isnt going to cut him?

if that happends is it so hard to believe he also forced him to back up Rodgers last year ? 

if Zach Wilson is still on this team in week 1 that is concrete proof that Woody did all i just said above. 

[FidelioJet]

13 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

To be fair , if your owner has a hardon to get so called Qb . What is the Gm suppose to do.  He either does what his owner wants or your out of a job..

This might be true - but there is literally nothing to support that the Jets owner had a "hardon" for Zach Wilson.  

But there is plenty of support that says Joe Douglas loved him.

It's entire speculation by JetNation is their desire to excuse make for who has been, by record (22-49), one of the worst GM's in football over the past half decade.  

[32EBoozer]

12 hours ago, doitny said:

I said its all JD but the QB. every owner gets involved in it.

so again i ask is it JD fault if Zach is still here in week 1 when Woody told you he isnt going to cut him?

I blame these guys!

 

[bicketybam]

31 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This might be true - but there is literally nothing to support that the Jets owner had a "hardon" for Zach Wilson.  

But there is plenty of support that says Joe Douglas loved him.

It's entire speculation by JetNation is their desire to excuse make for who has been, by record (22-49), one of the worst GM's in football over the past half decade.  

Would you say Bill Belichick was a great GM because his record indicates he was an all time great one.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

Would you say Bill Belichick was a great GM because his record indicates he was an all time great one.

Yes.  Putting the cheating aside. 

First of all - he drafted the GOAT at QB

Then he built teams that complimented the QB and the other talent to win championships.  Moreover, as a GM, in theory, he hired himself as HC.  Where as JD hired Staircase Bob.