Is Joe Douglas the problem?

[Rich Thornburgh]

46 minutes ago, fullblast said:

The Jets are more talented than the team they lost to today. No, I don’t think he was the problem.

Yes but they are not that much more talented 

[Barkus]

47 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He isn’t very good. But I’m no scout but Douglas eyeing Corley as a must have is one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen out of a professional GM. Watching 3 minutes of him on YouTube was enough. 

Hah, I literally forgot Corley was even on the team. Is he in the witness protection program?

[Rich Thornburgh]

7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

There is, after all, only one problem. Every smart jets fan knows that.

The owner is horrible but JD also is inept.  He might be statistically the worst GM ever

[Gastineau Lives]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas isn’t a good GM he’s in fact bad but the Jets have a better roster than Denver. 

No we don’t. We have a MUCH better roster than Denver, like it’s not even ****jng close

[Darnold's Forehead]

 

2 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Yeah it’s all on Saleh… the defensive HC who’s defense has the only good thing about this team. JD is blameless. 😂

The defense is good because of the players JD has brought in and Ulbrich. Literally nothing to do with Saleh.

[varjet]

The reality is that JD and his scouts largely execute the plan of the coaches.  

So our defense is ok but our offense is not.  AR8 is effectively the OC, which is how we ended up with Dalvin Cook, Lazard, Corley and others.  

Woody gave them a chance to put it together with AR8.   As of now, it is not working out.  

But I think this game shows the value of a good HC, even if he is a jerk.   Payton beat a better Jets team today.  

[Bleedin Green]

14 minutes ago, nyjets1969 said:

It's the owner look at Todd Bowles in Tampa Bay we were all trashing him. Now Bowles is coaching like top tier coach Baker Mayfield looks like Tom Brady starting really believe Woody is the issue of why this franchise is so bad.

No no, don't you remember?  It was all clearly Bowles' fault, as Maccagnan had put together such a top-talent roster whose constant inability to show as much on the field was clearly solely due to the coaching.  I mean, when has ever such a solid theory not held up, right?

[FidelioJet]

QB is the problem and as always been the problem.

[Bleedin Green]

17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

There is, after all, only one problem. Every smart jets fan knows that.

@Pac right?  Has to be.

[Green Ghost]

8 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

 

The defense is good because of the players JD has brought in and Ulbrich. Literally nothing to do with Saleh.

So then following your logic, the offense is bad because of the players JD brought in, not because of Saleh. Correct?

[Beerfish]

As I've said before Douglas is tremendous at 50% of the things a gm needs to do and he is totally atrocious at the other 50%.

And thus you get what we have, some really good players and moves and a non winning team.

He has hooked his wagon to Saleh and Rodgers so if they go down so should he but he won't

 

[FidelioJet]

Bottom line.  

NFL is about QB play and Rodgers is, at this point, a mediocre NFL QB......

Good days and bad days - but that's who he is....

[Green Ghost]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

QB is the problem and as always been the problem.

And as Jayden Daniels is proving thus far, the right QB also the solution.

[Bleedin Green]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As I've said before Douglas is tremendous at 50% of the things a gm needs to do and he is totally atrocious at the other 50%.

And thus you get what we have, some really good players and moves and a non winning team.

He has hooked his wagon to Saleh and Rodgers so if they go down so should he but he won't

 

Except 50% is looking wildly generous.

I'll give him evaluating CBs, after that I think we've hit the end of his list of anything within even miles of "tremendous".

[Green Ghost]

Where is @bicketybam? Every time the Jets lose he disappears for a week.

[Darnold's Forehead]

17 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

So then following your logic, the offense is bad because of the players JD brought in, not because of Saleh. Correct?

Uh, no, because Hackett sucks.  You can't honestly look at the players JD has brought in on offense and not see that they're vastly underperforming.

Regardless, when your players are underperforming, regressing and committing penalties left and right, that's all coaching.

[Green Ghost]

17 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Uh, no, because Hackett sucks.  You can't honestly look at the players JD has brought in on offense and not see that they're vastly underperforming.

Regardless, when your players are underperforming, regressing and committing penalties left and right, that's all coaching.

If you say so… 🤷‍♂️

[Bleedin Green]

59 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Uh, no, because Hackett sucks.  You can't honestly look at the players JD has brought in on offense and not see that they're vastly underperforming.

Regardless, when your players are underperforming, regressing and committing penalties left and right, that's all coaching.

Under-performing relative to what?  They are certainly far worse players than what JD evaluated and paid them to be, that's for sure.

Kind of his M.O. in having alternated between handing out paydays to washed-up has-beens that the rest of the league has moved on from and drafting busts.

[Darnold's Forehead]

8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Under-performing relative to what?  They are certainly far worse players than what JD evaluated and paid them to be, that's for sure.

Kind of his M.O. in having alternated between handing out paydays to washed-up has-beens that the rest of the league has moved on from and drafting busts.

Relative to past play and teams across the league.  I just watched Baltimore, who coached up depth guys to fill half their OL during the offeason, open a hole the size of the Red Sea for Henry, and our OL of players who have each been good football players, quite recently, can't get any push whatsoever.

Is Garrett Wilson a bad WR?  I don't think so.  I think he'd be an All Pro if he'd been drafted by another team, IMO.  And now with the game on the line, he's running routes and completely unaware of when the ball is coming, as he's been all year so far.  He was more effective as a rookie when Joe Flacco was the QB.  There is a disconnect between the players of this team that cannot be explained by talent.  Breece Hall has looked LeVeon Bell-esque so far this season, but I don't criticize JD for drafting him.

Adam Gase got more out of Sam Darnold and Maccagnan's disgusting roster (Robbie Anderson/Chris Hogan WR#1&2, atrocious OL, bad defense) than Saleh is getting out of Rodgers and co. now.

I am critical of JD for drafting Zach Wilson, hiring Hackett and not firing Saleh yesterday.  Fire-able offenses at this point, but not the source of the problems.

[DonCorleone]

Joe Douglas' record is abysmal. He signed off on all of the coaches hired. He was supposed to be an offensive line guru, yet our line is still suspect. He let go of Darnold for Zach. People forget that it took him 3 seasons to find a kicker. A real owner would have fired him and his coach last season.

[Charlie Brown]

Everything is backwards with the Jets!

The Jets coaching staff should be making Rogers look good not look to Rogers to make them look good and this is the problem!

[Jetsplayer21]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's been 5 years and they still can't protect the QB.

Ironically the guy JD gave away ( myers ) to Denver for basically nothing, was 1 who manhandled JD’s OL today. In both running and passing situations. Making JDs handling of reddick debacle that much worse. 

[Bleedin Green]

7 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Relative to past play and teams across the league.  I just watched Baltimore, who coached up depth guys to fill half their OL during the offeason, open a hole the size of the Red Sea for Henry, and our OL of players who have each been good football players, quite recently, can't get any push whatsoever.

Is Garrett Wilson a bad WR?  I don't think so.  I think he'd be an All Pro if he'd been drafted by another team, IMO.  And now with the game on the line, he's running routes and completely unaware of when the ball is coming, as he's been all year so far.  He was more effective as a rookie when Joe Flacco was the QB.  There is a disconnect between the players of this team that cannot be explained by talent.  Breece Hall has looked LeVeon Bell-esque so far this season, but I don't criticize JD for drafting him.

Adam Gase got more out of Sam Darnold and Maccagnan's disgusting roster (Robbie Anderson/Chris Hogan WR#1&2, atrocious OL, bad defense) than Saleh is getting out of Rodgers and co. now.

I am critical of JD for drafting Zach Wilson, hiring Hackett and not firing Saleh yesterday.  Fire-able offenses at this point, but not the source of the problems.

So other than your personal desire to blame Saleh for players JD drafted that aren't performing to the level you and JD hoped, who else do you have?  Most of the Jets castoffs in recent years have disappeared from the league after, not seeing any career resurgence your point would suggest.  On the flip side, Huff is an invisible man who evidence suggests the Jets coaches made, while JD sent Darnold packing so he could draft the second biggest bust in NFL history, and then trade a haul for an already descending QB the rest of the league didn't want.

It seems you've simply decided JD must not be to blame for the fact that, as you yourself pointed out, the roster he inherited from Mac outperformed what he's built over 6 years.

Funny thing though, if you believe the biggest current problems are each directly related to his own decisions, then JD is by very definition the source of those problems.

[Aussie Jet]

Let's look at his draft history from 2020-2023 (I'll leave out 2024 as that is too difficult to grade only a few months removed from the draft):

2020 draft

No. 11: Mekhi Becton, OT - gone

No. 59: Denzel Mims, OT - gone

No. 68: Ashtyn Davis, S - still here

No. 79: Jabari Zuniga, DE - gone

No. 120: La'Mical Perine, RB - gone

No. 125: James Morgan, QB - gone

No. 129: Cameron Clark, OL - gone

No. 159: Bryce Hall, CB - gone

No. 191: Braden Mann, P - gone

So from nine picks used by Douglas in the 2020 draft, we still have one player, a part-time player in Ashtyn Davis.

With the benefit of hindsight, this draft has to be given an F.

2021 draft

No. 2: Zach Wilson, QB - gone

No. 14: Alijah Vera-Tucker, OL - still here

No. 34: Elijah Moore, WR - gone

No. 107: Michael Carter, RB - gone

No. 146: Jamien Sherwood, LB - still here

No. 154: Michael Carter II, DB - still here

No. 175: Jason Pinnock, DB - gone

No. 186: Hamsah Nasirildeen, LB - gone

No. 200: Brandin Echols, CB - still here

No. 207: Jonathan Marshall, DT - gone

So, from this draft, we have four players. Not too bad, provided you overlook the glaring fact that he spent a top two pick on a player who stunk almost from the moment he arrived at the Jets.

With the benefit of hindsight, this draft has to be given a D.

2022 draft

No. 4: Ahmed "Sauce" Gardner, CB - still here

No 10: Garrett Wilson, WR - still here

No. 26: Jermaine Johnson II, DE/LB - still here

No. 36: Breece Hall, RB - still here

No. 101: Jeremy Ruckert, TE - still here

No. 111: Max Mitchell, OT - still here

No. 117: Micheal Clemons, DT - still here

Not many GMs can boast hitting on all seven players from the one draft. Douglas also drafted the defensive and offensive rookie players of the year, and Hall probably would have beaten Wilson for the latter award had he stayed healthy for the 2022 season. He also obtained a second first round pick by trading away Jamal Adams to the Seahawks in a very lopsided trade for the Jets. Have to give him his due for this draft, even if Wilson and Hall have taken some pretty decent steps back so far this season.

With the benefit of hindsight, this draft has to be given an A.

2023 draft

No. 15: Will McDonald, DE - still here

No. 43: Joe Tippmann, C - still here

No. 120: Carter Warren, OL - still here

No. 143: Israel Abanikanda, RB - still here

No. 184: Zaire Barnes, LB - still here

No. 204: Jarrick Bernard-Converse, CB - still here

No. 220: Zack Kuntz, TE - still here

Again, a very good job to have all those picks and pick players that are all still here. Have to give him that. But, apart from Tippmann and flashes from McDonald, none of these players actually move the needle for the Jets. Except for Tippmann and McDonald (through other roster decisions Douglas has made), they're all buried on the depth chart.

With the benefit of hindsight, this has to be given a B-.

[Bleedin Green]

7 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Ironically the guy JD gave away ( myers ) to Denver for basically nothing, was 1 who manhandled JD’s OL today. In both running and passing situations. Making JDs handling of reddick debacle that much worse. 

Do you mean to tell me an offseason exchanging JFM, Huff, and a 3rd for a holding out Reddick is not a net gain in your eyes?  Curious.

[Darnold's Forehead]

3 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So other than your personal desire to blame Saleh for players JD drafted that aren't performing to the level you and JD hoped, who else do you have?  Most of the Jets castoffs in recent years have disappeared from the league after, not seeing any career resurgence your point would suggest.  On the flip side, Huff is an invisible man who evidence suggests the Jets coaches made, while JD sent Darnold packing so he could draft the second biggest bust in NFL history, and then trade a haul for an already descending QB the rest of the league didn't want.

It seems you've simply decided JD must not be to blame for the fact that, as you yourself pointed out, the roster he inherited from Mac outperformed what he's built over 6 years.

Funny thing though, if you believe the biggest current problems are each directly related to his own decisions, then JD is by very definition the source of those problems.

They have performed.  Are you going to tell me Hall and Wilson have never been good?  Was Tyron Smith bad last year?  AVT has been an above average player.  So has Tippmann.  John Simpson was serviceable in Baltimore.  Mike Williams is a good player.  Tyler Conklin is an average NFL TE.  People think Allen is the steal of the draft.

You really look at this roster and think "Yeah, today's performance is exactly what I expected given our talent."?  You think Mac's roster was a better roster than this roster?  You think Jonotthan Harrison, Brandon Shell, Chris Hogan, Ryan Griffin, & Frank Gore were better than what the Jets have now?  And that coaching has nothing to do with that?  If so, there's no point in me debating this further with you.

A lot of the hype this year was hot air as it usually is, but there's a reason there was any hype at all.  Because most people across the league and media, who look at football all day, at least recognized they brought in some talent on O.  There is currently no talent being used.

And obviously JD's to blame because he makes the decisions.  I didn't think I needed to spell that out to you.  But Saleh has been FAR worse at his job than JD has, and during the middle of an NFL season, coaches are more important than general managers.