before we put pennyboy out to pasture

[GimmeShelter]

17th, 29th, 25th, 30th, 10th and 22nd.

Those are the rankings of the offenses the Phins have faced. Still want to stand by the "Chad finally beat a strong defense" claim?

Funny thing about you Pfsikh is rankings only matter when they suit your agenda. You come up small here.

By the way BZ never said finally.

[Maxman]

17th, 29th, 25th, 30th, 10th and 22nd.

Those are the rankings of the offenses the Phins have faced. Still want to stand by the "Chad finally beat a strong defense" claim?

You guys are too much. Is Miami ranked 4th? (Were they actually). Did he QB the Jets who beat them?

If the statement was he doesn't beat top 10 defenses just man up and admit that he did. The sky won't fall. I promise.

[PatsFanTX]

Funny thing about you Pfsikh is rankings only matter when they suit your agenda. You come up small here.

Are you implying:

PFSIKH = PennyBoyWonder in big game situations?

[PatsFanTX]

You guys are too much.

Please define "you guys".

[Maxman]

Please define "you guys".

Tx,

You are a man of your word. Of high moral character. I was referring to all the other Trolls, lol.

[PatsFanTX]

Tx,

You are a man of your word. Of high moral character. I was referring to all the other Trolls, lol.

Thanks Max,

I just wanted verification on that.

[RSJ]

RING!! RING!!

TX: Hello?

BZ: Hey TX, thought I would catch you up on the NFL.

TX: Ok.

BZ: Yeah, did you see Chad beat the Miami Defense this last week? Yeah, they are ranked 4th in total defense. Just thought I would give you a call.

TX:

BZ: Not much to say?

TX:

BZ: Ok, well, enjoy your week.

BZ

POTW!!!

[SoFlaJets]

You guys are too much. Is Miami ranked 4th? (Were they actually). Did he QB the Jets who beat them?

If the statement was he doesn't beat top 10 defenses just man up and admit that he did. The sky won't fall. I promise.

I started repling to this post before Max and thought better-I mean-what's the use?

[afosomf]

POTW!!!

Yup Everyone is confusing the Phins Defense with the Monsters of Midway!!

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

[RSJ]

Yup Everyone is confusing the Phins Defense with the Monsters of Midway!!

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

Well it is closer to reality than counting interceptions that a defense drops against a QB.

Just an observation.

[afosomf]

just do not want to hear about his 1 int in redzone stat anymore

It mainly is a function of luck as we all have seen many of passes dropped

by opposing teams

When Penne beats a good team with a stellar D then we all can pop off the corks, until then he is an average QB

[RSJ]

just do not want to hear about his 1 int in redzone stat anymore

It mainly is a function of luck as we all have seen many of passes dropped

by opposing teams

When Penne beats a good team with a stellar D then we all can pop off the corks, until then he is an average QB

Assmop,

What QB would you like to compare him to? Because most everyone you are going to name has much better weapons around them, and more than likely a better defense. Jets offensive weapons suck and the defense is not much better. The Jax game was 21-0 after about 10 Jacksonville offensive plays. Kinda hard to throw with subpar weapons especially when the defense knows it is coming. I also do not see how you can throw out a stat like 48-1. You just can't do it unless you are retarded.

[JetCane]

just do not want to hear about his 1 int in redzone stat anymore

Well, if they kicked the FG, or at least ran something other than that fakackta play, it would still be zero red zone ints.

[spjets]

you just answered your own question..

You just can't do it unless you are retarded.

[afosomf]

Assmop,

What QB would you like to compare him to? Because most everyone you are going to name has much better weapons around them, and more than likely a better defense. Jets offensive weapons suck and the defense is not much better. The Jax game was 21-0 after about 10 Jacksonville offensive plays. Kinda hard to throw with subpar weapons especially when the defense knows it is coming. I also do not see how you can throw out a stat like 48-1. You just can't do it unless you are retarded.

First of all it is Afo to U

Coles and Cotch are very good WR's, Coles is having an ALL-PRo year, so your argument is Flawed already, Jets cannot run because smart D's Penne know

cannot stretch field. The OL is doing an Ok job, they har far from the worst OL out there. Penne had plenty of chances to get the jets in the game, 3 and outs will not do the trick.

Leon Washington will be a very good back, will compare to warrick dunn, when

he gets a QB with a legit arm, hopefully clemmons you will start to see the makings of a very good team.

a more important stat is to look at the important games vs Good D's and what is Penne's record i believe it is 0 and counting, so you can take this

48-1 redzone stat and stuff it up your arse like a red hot poker

By the way, my cousin is one of those mentally challenged retards....

[JonEJet]

By the way, my cousin is one of those mentally challenged retards....

Unfortunately, when discussing Chad Pennington, you too seem quite challenged, mentally.

[afosomf]

whatever rocks your boat captain bly

i

[serphnx]

Well if you guys are serious about Clemmons, then he should start from midseason, and we probably won't make the playoffs. It's very similar to the Warner-Manning (well, Warner and everyone lately) scenario with the Giants a few years back. Ultimately it paid off well for them. I wonder if the same can happen for us. Warner isn't the same as Pennington (although Warner has had a better career) is now, but the parallels between Collins and Pennington can work well. They both look like good solid QBs, but for some reason or other you just feel a team QBed by those two will never get past that hump.

[PFSIKH]

You guys are too much. Is Miami ranked 4th? (Were they actually). Did he QB the Jets who beat them?

If the statement was he doesn't beat top 10 defenses just man up and admit that he did. The sky won't fall. I promise.

Max,

First, as you and the rest of your lunatic following fail to grasp, the numbers Tex uses are based on end of season stats. Not during season and more importantly they are based on points allowed. Wrap your fingers around that little concept and admit you are wrong. Now, if you want to discuss the ramifications of the Phins offense and the effects it has on the 12th rated defense in points allowed, that is another thing.

Second, whether it is the 4th or 12th rated defense we are talking about, it is not like the Phins have gone through the top ranked offenses in the league. Do you think that maybe their defense is not as good as that ranking suggests? Four of the five offenses are in the bottom third of the league. That is what would be called a cream puff schedule. I know...I am a troll and I am wrong.

Lastly, no matter what argument I use, you and the Chad apologists get your panties in a bind. He had two times to show up this season and proove me wrong. The first he was largely non-existant for three quarters. He had two long TD scores soley based on the athletic ability of his wideouts and he made a blowout close and padded his stats. We do not have to even discuss Jacksonville. Yet, you want me to give Chad props for beating a 1-5 team that has for the most part played offenses in the bottom half of the league.

Either way, I do not care what you think. Go get a life size cutout of Chad cut a little corn hole in it and have at it. Maybe that will make you feel better about your perpetual stuck in average QB.

[PatsFanTX]

First of all it is Afo to U

Coles and Cotch are very good WR's, Coles is having an ALL-PRo year, so your argument is Flawed already, Jets cannot run because smart D's Penne know

cannot stretch field. The OL is doing an Ok job, they har far from the worst OL out there. Penne had plenty of chances to get the jets in the game, 3 and outs will not do the trick.

Leon Washington will be a very good back, will compare to warrick dunn, when

he gets a QB with a legit arm, hopefully clemmons you will start to see the makings of a very good team.

a more important stat is to look at the important games vs Good D's and what is Penne's record i believe it is 0 and counting, so you can take this

48-1 redzone stat and stuff it up your arse like a red hot poker

By the way, my cousin is one of those mentally challenged retards....

Anybody who says assmop doesn't know football, needs to re-read this post.

The guy is dead on.

[PatsFanTX]

Max,

First, as you and the rest of your lunatic following fail to grasp, the numbers Tex uses are based on end of season stats. Not during season and more importantly they are based on points allowed. Wrap your fingers around that little concept and admit you are wrong. Now, if you want to discuss the ramifications of the Phins offense and the effects it has on the 12th rated defense in points allowed, that is another thing.

Second, whether it is the 4th or 12th rated defense we are talking about, it is not like the Phins have gone through the top ranked offenses in the league. Do you think that maybe their defense is not as good as that ranking suggests? Four of the five offenses are in the bottom third of the league. That is what would be called a cream puff schedule. I know...I am a troll and I am wrong.

Lastly, no matter what argument I use, you and the Chad apologists get your panties in a bind. He had two times to show up this season and proove me wrong. The first he was largely non-existant for three quarters. He had two long TD scores soley based on the athletic ability of his wideouts and he made a blowout close and padded his stats. We do not have to even discuss Jacksonville. Yet, you want me to give Chad props for beating a 1-5 team that has for the most part played offenses in the bottom half of the league.

Either way, I do not care what you think. Go get a life size cutout of Chad cut a little corn hole in it and have at it. Maybe that will make you feel better about your perpetual stuck in average QB.

Ouch.

For the 2nd day in a row, Max got owned by PFSIKH.

[JetCane]

Ouch.

For the 2nd day in a row, Max got owned by PFSIKH.

Hardly. He's just a loser who wont even accept the stats that you proudly parade around about teams being ranked high statistically.

Do you think that maybe their defense is not as good as that ranking suggests?

Now, when a team is in the top ten, we are supposed to wonder if they are not as good as the ranking. Horsesh1t. You cant have it both ways, trolls.

[PFSIKH]

Hardly. He's just a loser who wont even accept the stats that you proudly parade around about teams being ranked high statistically.

Now, when a team is in the top ten, we are supposed to wonder if they are not as good as the ranking. Horsesh1t. You cant have it both ways, trolls.

Seriously, look at the stuff you type.

As I explained to Max, you idiots are getting it wrong. It is points allowed not yards allowed. Points. Not yards. Do not tell me I am using my numbers wrong. I generate them you dumbass. It has been the same standard for 4 years. Your argument is not valid when it is used to make a counter point about the numbers Tex uses because you are wrong about what they are based on. I am pretty sure we both have seen enough football to know that points allowed is more of a decider of the game then yards allowed. Jesus, I even gave you a argument against me by mentioning the Phins' offense versus defensive points allowed, but as usual you missed the point. No surprise at all really.

My argument to BZ's using the Phins as a case of Chad beating a top defense is look who they have played. It is like your 6-0 Scarlet Knights. Yes, they are undefeated, but who have they played? Nobody. I will wait until the beat Pitt, Louisville and WVU before booking BCS reservations. The Phins have not given up much yardage and their offense is leaving them in less then favorable position, but I will reserve a judgement until the end of the season and redo the numbersas I always do.

The bottomline is this jackass, do not throw my numbers in my face when you get them wrong. And it can be both ways when that #4 defense is done against teams with 5 of 6 offenses in the bottom half of the league rankings and the teams are a combined 13-20.

[SoFlaJets]

Seriously, look at the stuff you type.

As I explained to Max, you idiots are getting it wrong. It is points allowed not yards allowed. Points. Not yards. Do not tell me I am using my numbers wrong. I generate them you dumbass. It has been the same standard for 4 years. Your argument is not valid when it is used to make a counter point about the numbers Tex uses because you are wrong about what they are based on. I am pretty sure we both have seen enough football to know that points allowed is more of a decider of the game then yards allowed. Jesus, I even gave you a argument against me by mentioning the Phins' offense versus defensive points allowed, but as usual you missed the point. No surprise at all really.

My argument to BZ's using the Phins as a case of Chad beating a top defense is look who they have played. It is like your 6-0 Scarlet Knights. Yes, they are undefeated, but who have they played? Nobody. I will wait until the beat Pitt, Louisville and WVU before booking BCS reservations. The Phins have not given up much yardage and their offense is leaving them in less then favorable position, but I will reserve a judgement until the end of the season and redo the numbersas I always do.

The bottomline is this jackass, do not throw my numbers in my face when you get them wrong. And it can be both ways when that #4 defense is done against teams with 5 of 6 offenses in the bottom half of the league rankings and the teams are a combined 13-20.

you guys are ridiculous with your number spouting-they rarely take into account actual situations oh say like a QB throwing in the 4th quarter playing catch-up against the old unreliable prevent defense-stats are for idiots who don't truly understand the game of football-like you

[joewilly]

Seriously, look at the stuff you type.

As I explained to Max, you idiots are getting it wrong. It is points allowed not yards allowed. Points. Not yards. Do not tell me I am using my numbers wrong. I generate them you dumbass. It has been the same standard for 4 years. Your argument is not valid when it is used to make a counter point about the numbers Tex uses because you are wrong about what they are based on. I am pretty sure we both have seen enough football to know that points allowed is more of a decider of the game then yards allowed. Jesus, I even gave you a argument against me by mentioning the Phins' offense versus defensive points allowed, but as usual you missed the point. No surprise at all really.

My argument to BZ's using the Phins as a case of Chad beating a top defense is look who they have played. It is like your 6-0 Scarlet Knights. Yes, they are undefeated, but who have they played? Nobody. I will wait until the beat Pitt, Louisville and WVU before booking BCS reservations. The Phins have not given up much yardage and their offense is leaving them in less then favorable position, but I will reserve a judgement until the end of the season and redo the numbersas I always do.

The bottomline is this jackass, do not throw my numbers in my face when you get them wrong. And it can be both ways when that #4 defense is done against teams with 5 of 6 offenses in the bottom half of the league rankings and the teams are a combined 13-20.

sorry but it doesn't appear to me that you are reserving judjement til seasons end with your posts. I understand everyone labelling chad as mister average at best but to me this is a new start for chad & he has stepped up to the challenge this year as a qb. new offensive schemes, new oline, new runningbacks. I think pretty much every q'back in the league has strengths & weaknesses to their games. Chad does a pretty good job at playing to his own strengths and has a lot to do with helping the jets with w's & cannot really be faulted for the l's vs the pats & colts.

He is not one of the top qb's in the league but I gotta say he's better than average. using stats & twisting them to help your arguments is silly & wrong. I prefer to watch the games & form my own opinions than get viscious with other posters over how stats are construed thanks.

[SoFlaJets]

sorry but it doesn't appear to me that you are reserving judjement til seasons end with your posts. I understand everyone labelling chad as mister average at best but to me this is a new start for chad & he has stepped up to the challenge this year as a qb. new offensive schemes, new oline, new runningbacks. I think pretty much every q'back in the league has strengths & weaknesses to their games. Chad does a pretty good job at playing to his own strengths and has a lot to do with helping the jets with w's & cannot really be faulted for the l's vs the pats & colts.

He is not one of the top qb's in the league but I gotta say he's better than average. using stats & twisting them to help your arguments is silly & wrong. I prefer to watch the games & form my own opinions than get viscious with other posters over how stats are construed thanks.

good post jw-you said it much better than I.The conclusion I'm coming to now is that guy is pretty much a dickhead

[JetCane]

you guys are ridiculous

You could have stopped right there and been spot on.

[joewilly]

good post jw-you said it much better than I.The conclusion I'm coming to now is that guy is pretty much a dickhead

thanks soflajets but I don't consider pfkish a dickhead at all. he has really good input in lots of threads, I just get tired of statmasters trying to win arguments by pulling numbers out to suit their agenda.

I wasn't 100% sure what you mean't by dickhead so I looked it up. I must say tx looks much thinner in the pic that came up

[PatsFanTX]

I wasn't 100% sure what you mean't by dickhead so I looked it up. I must say tx looks much thinner in the pic that came up

WTF, I stay out of this arguement and get blasted anyway?

[joewilly]

WTF, I stay out of this arguement and get blasted anyway?

I just paid you a huge compliment you fat bastid. I just didn't want you to feel left out of a chadbashing thread thats all

[PFSIKH]

you guys are ridiculous with your number spouting-they rarely take into account actual situations oh say like a QB throwing in the 4th quarter playing catch-up against the old unreliable prevent defense-stats are for idiots who don't truly understand the game of football-like you

Classic old argument. I am wrong because I do not understand the game. And Thanks for making my argument why I choose points over yards.

When have we every said they are the gospel? Never. They are what they are...numbers. Nothing more or less. Does it suggest anything? Yes.

I will admit I have not seen as much of Chad as you. I have seen a fair amount of games against the Patriots and playoff games. Maybe my perspective is a bit warped because he is only playing good to great teams, but nothing suggests he is a great QB in a bad situation. He is a good QB. Nothing more or less.

As Tex said earlier this week, Mangini is trying to put him in positions to succed. Good, but in his only two chances to proove me wrong this year.....he sucked.

Aren't great QBs suppossed to raise their team to upsets on ocassion? I ask this and not meaning to be a smart ass. When was the last time Chad upset a heavily favored superior opponent with his arm?

[#27TheDominator]

You admit he's a good qb? Then why all this BS? He only sucked in one game. Jacksonville. He did not light the Pats up, but they put up the points and that's what counts, statmaster. As far as I know it doesn't matter if they scored in the 4th quarter or the 1st.

[SouthernJet]

.The conclusion I'm coming to now is that guy is pretty much a dickhead

Funny Pfsikh , I pictured you differently

[PFSIKH]

You admit he's a good qb? Then why all this BS? He only sucked in one game. Jacksonville. He did not light the Pats up, but they put up the points and that's what counts, statmaster. As far as I know it doesn't matter if they scored in the 4th quarter or the 1st.

#27 - Statmaster? Better then dickhead.

I think he is a decent QB. I have been saying that for the past 4 years. What assmop got for POTW I have been saying for the past 4 years. I think his lack of range allows Ds to take away his strengths (i.e. above average short accuracy). Which means he will beat good to bad teams and struggle against better to great teams. They force him to beat him deep because most good Ds can take hte running game away.

I will slightly disagree with your when the points are scored take. The D you see when the score is 0-0 is going to be different then the one you see when the score is 24-0 late in the 3rd. The D is going to be a little more loose.

joewilly

Good points. I have never said these are numbers from some higher form of math and will stand any test. To settle an argument on AFC East QBs a few years ago, I compiled them (Won/Loss: Vs Top 10/20/30 Points Allowed Ds, winning teams, losing teams and when Ds allows more and less then 20 points). These are not cold hard facts; more like market trends.

Plain and simple, but people get their panties in a bind over it.

[PFSIKH]

Funny Pfsikh , I pictured you differently

That is new MITCH helmet that was issued before my deployment. I must say it did a good job. The one time I was blown up it took the brunt of the blast.