no new NT

[#27TheDominator]

Why would somebody say Mosely is "progressing?" Has the guy even dressed for a game yet? Far as I know practices are closed and I have not even seen the guy.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm - you haven't been paying attention for the past 9 months. mangini, especially in year 1 is building the program from the ground up with "his" guys. i don't think it mattered if watson projected to start from day 1 there was no way he was going to be on this team, especially in year 1.

Ultimately i believe that is why we didn't take him. He knew he was going to have a rigorous training camp and a big fat-ass like that would've required Mangini giving special treatment for him. I believe also why we didn't take Grady Jackson. Everyone was told that all players must do this & that. To then turn around and single out this one player sucking wind & riding a stationary bike & then play them would come across as hypocritical.

[quietjets]

Why would somebody say Mosely is "progressing?" Has the guy even dressed for a game yet? Far as I know practices are closed and I have not even seen the guy.

He is inactive but what is your hurry to see his action this year. He is young and in developing process..

[LionelRichie]

Ultimately i believe that is why we didn't take him. He knew he was going to have a rigorous training camp and a big fat-ass like that would've required Mangini giving special treatment for him. I believe also why we didn't take Grady Jackson. Everyone was told that all players must do this & that. To then turn around and single out this one player sucking wind & riding a stationary bike & then play them would come across as hypocritical.

which is really an interesting situation going forward. by definition the NG in the 3-4 needs to be a space-eater. i wonder what BB does with wilfat up in NE? i think mangini will concede that the NG is not going to run a 5 minute mile. i think watson was too much of a turd for him. they want smart, hard-working players who football is important to. by all accounts watson didn't fit that mold. the same with lendale white and numerous others the jets passed on in the draft.

[Gibbon]

It has to do with value. Schlegel and Smith were poor value at that spot. Watson was great value. NONE of the three may turn into ANYTHING. If they got someone else instead of those two (Norwood, etc) I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. They could've been had much later. If Smith was projected as an UDFA, why not take him then? The analogy is to pretend Watson was an UDFA - would we not pick him up?

But Watson wasnt such a great value because he played a position that the coaching staff thought we had covered. Just because so called draft experts had him listed as a potential first rounder doesnt mean he was really that valuable. After all lots of teams passed on him several times. The actual teams are the real experts because they are specialists. They specialize in what their team needs. Media draft experts project players based on the percieved over all value to an unspecified team. Therefor Schlegel and Smith were worth 3rd round picks because the Jets spent 3rd round picks to get them and Watson wasnt worth a pick to the Jets because they didnt spend a pick to get him.

There is a big difference between whether or not the Jets would, at this point, be willing to sign Watson if he were a Free Agent now. Then we didnt need NTs now we do.

The reason you pick Schlegel and Smith in the 3rd round if you are the Jets is because those are two guy you really wanted, whether anyone else thought they were worth a 3rd rounder or not. To the team they were worth it and in the end thats all that matters. No one knows whether or not other teams had Schlegel and Smith rated as 3rd rounders or early 4th rounders.

I think Smith has played up to the expectations of a late 3rd round pick. He dresses, he has been solid on ST, and he plays in some packages on D. Thats as much as Watson has done and the Jets need safeties and D backs this year.

Schlegel not playing could be a product of many things -- depth at his position, development of pass coverage skills, progress in learning to play the 3-4 or his critics could be right and he hasnt lived up to their expectations. Either way, the Jets on draft day thought he was worth a 3rd rounder and that Watson was not.

[quietjets]

Actual draft- Schlegel and Smith in 3rd round... Washington and Smith in 4th round.

It should have happened- Norwood and B.Smith in 3rd round... Anderson and Dobbins in 4th round.

[Sperm Edwards]

The Jets needed a NT before the draft. It was discussed here on-end at the time. No one truly thought DRob was going to be a run-stuffing 2-gapper. Well...almost no one.

[Barton]

If the Jets coaching staff thought they had their NT with Drob/Pouha, then they are really stupid.

Everyone suspected Drob of sucking in the 3-4, and so far, he has.

Pouha? Pouha? Are you kidding me?

I pray that the coaching staff was not looking at this guy as a real option longterm or in 06'.

[quietjets]

The Jets needed a NT before the draft. It was discussed here on-end at the time. No one truly thought DRob was going to be a run-stuffing 2-gapper. Well...almost no one.

Well, Ngata did holdout with Ravens. Perhaps Jets avoided him because of signability issue... He was 12th overall pick so imagine that if he was selected at 4th overall selection by Jets... Too much to invest in untest DT for 3-4 nose.

[Sperm Edwards]

If the Jets coaching staff thought they had their NT with Drob/Pouha, then they are really stupid.

Everyone suspected Drob of sucking in the 3-4, and so far, he has.

Pouha? Pouha? Are you kidding me?

I pray that the coaching staff was not looking at this guy as a real option longterm or in 06'.

[quietjets]

If the Jets coaching staff thought they had their NT with Drob/Pouha, then they are really stupid.

Everyone suspected Drob of sucking in the 3-4, and so far, he has.

Pouha? Pouha? Are you kidding me?

I pray that the coaching staff was not looking at this guy as a real option longterm or in 06'.

I dont think they dwelled on drob at all.. Pouha? perhaps until he lost all pounds to be a lean DE.

[Gibbon]

If the Jets coaching staff thought they had their NT with Drob/Pouha, then they are really stupid.

Everyone suspected Drob of sucking in the 3-4, and so far, he has.

Pouha? Pouha? Are you kidding me?

I pray that the coaching staff was not looking at this guy as a real option longterm or in 06'.

Then I guess they're stupid and you are a football genius. They should hire you fire their scouts and Mangini and Tannenbaum should fire himself.

[#27TheDominator]

He is inactive but what is your hurry to see his action this year. He is young and in developing process..

My hurry to see him is that we need NT help NOW. IF the guy wasn't a stiff he'd be playing. What is he-a year younger than Robertson? Give me a break. Young guys play in the NFL all the time, why can't he?

Oh yeah, and Pouha did not play end. He played tackle. I never heard of any thought of him playing end. Despite all the talk about his new physique he didn't last long enough to play either.

[quietjets]

Then I guess they're stupid and you are a football genius. They should hire you fire their scouts and Mangini and Tannenbaum should fire himself.

I want Sutton out and hire 49ers' Singleton or Wolveriners' English as DC.

I dont believe in bringing in/keeping a friendship for job although it is easier to communicate with someone you know that well.

Ah... Tannenbaum is not a football genius but a business geek. I dont like him but since I know nothing about GM's availability I stuck with him.

Hope Jets turn around.

[quietjets]

My hurry to see him is that we need NT help NOW. IF the guy wasn't a stiff he'd be playing. What is he-a year younger than Robertson? Give me a break. Young guys play in the NFL all the time, why can't he?

Oh yeah, and Pouha did not play end. He played tackle. I never heard of any thought of him playing end. Despite all the talk about his new physique he didn't last long enough to play either.

After losing weight, Pouha was tried out at End as well Tackle during preseason. You know rotation stuff.

Mosely enters this year as 2nd year pro.. he may not be ready right away to play nose because it is new to him..

It would be nice to see Jets find a DT solution right away but there is no one will fix this problem this year.

Remember Chargers' Brown. He was a supplemental pick by Chargers and that time he was just 6 3 300. In his 3rd or 4th year, his weight was well over 320 and has played well at nose for Phillips' 3-4 defense. Mosely is already at slightly under 320 as 2nd year pro. Mosely is very athletic.

Since there are no suddenly impact nose available this year and next year, Tui, Moore and Mosely are given some time to develop into a solid nose.

I believe that Robertson cant gain some more weight due to his bad knee so thus he is out of option for 3-4 nose project.

[#27TheDominator]

After losing weight, Pouha was tried out at End as well Tackle during preseason. You know rotation stuff.

Mosely enters this year as 2nd year pro.. he may not be ready right away to play nose because it is new to him..

It would be nice to see Jets find a DT solution right away but there is no one will fix this problem this year.

Remember Chargers' Brown. He was a supplemental pick by Chargers and that time he was just 6 3 300. In his 3rd or 4th year, his weight was well over 320 and has played well at nose for Phillips' 3-4 defense. Mosely is already at slightly under 320 as 2nd year pro. Mosely is very athletic.

Since there are no suddenly impact nose available this year and next year, Tui, Moore and Mosely are given some time to develop into a solid nose.

I believe that Robertson cant gain some more weight due to his bad knee so thus he is out of option for 3-4 nose project.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Do you really think Pouha dropping 15 lbs of fat means he'd be worse at NT? They tried everybody everywhere in camp because they had to and Mangini is looking for versatility. Moore is 27, Tui coming off a season ending injury and Mosely inactive all season. I would hope there where be several guys with at least as much NFL pedigree as these dudes come camp '07.

[quietjets]

I wouldn't hold my breath. Do you really think Pouha dropping 15 lbs of fat means he'd be worse at NT? They tried everybody everywhere in camp because they had to and Mangini is looking for versatility. Moore is 27, Tui coming off a season ending injury and Mosely inactive all season. I would hope there where be several guys with at least as much NFL pedigree as these dudes come camp '07.

I never lobby for Pouha playing at nose.

I believe Mangini wants to have backup players to be versatible only. Pouha is not a starting caliber. He may lose some fat and then gain some muscle with proper condition because of low stamina problem for him.

Just keep eyes open for next year. Anyone can be surprised.

[johnny green balls]

the planet theory invented by George Young and perfected by Parcells is purely a function of mass times acceleration - loosely stated, planet theory comes down to the fact that statistically are only so many big fat men on the planet who run well. When you get a chance you should usually get them.

it's all a question of motivation

[JetCane]

After reading thru this thread, it's obvious that the 3-4 was the way to go.

[quietjets]

Sorry, I forget to mention Red Bryant... He is a junior from Texas AtM. his physique is 6 5 325.. He may be a solid mid round pick if declared.

[quietjets]

http://www.draftshowcase.com/07SmallSchool.htm

look at number 35 and 60 in the instant page and click on junior to find one DT.

That Batiste, nbr 60, is perfect ideal for 3-4 NT.

Jets could get one of them in day 2 or after draft.

[bitonti]

After reading thru this thread, it's obvious that the 3-4 was the way to go.

the 49ers started the year as a 3-4 defense

they are now a 4-3 team cause they have no 3-4 players

everyone WANTS to play the 3-4

but there's only about 5 teams that can do it well

the Jets right now aren't one of em.

[rajensen088]

you guys are gonna bash me like crazy for this statement

but after looking at the list of pending free agents and the draft

I don't think the Jets will be able to find a better 3-4 NT than current personnel (that includes Pouha and Tui on IR)

Seriously do some research there's not a single real NT who is coming due for FA next year... and I cannot find any legitimate 3-4 NT in the college ranks only undersized sleepers. the guy everyone wants Branch from michigan is not only a junior but also too tall for nose tackle.

i know it's early in the process

i know they could work out a trade of some kind

but i see all these wish list postings for a true 3-4 NT

well im here to say it aint gonna happen - at least not next year

Doesn't matter. The Jets also are using the 4-3 defense and they stink just as badly. It's the coaching. Here's the Emperor (is wearing no clothes) Penguin's defensive record through game five:

total defense…………… 30th

pass defense…………… 26th

run defense…………… 28th

scoring defense………… 26th

def takeaways…………. 26th

def penalties…………… 30th

[PatsFanTX]

It's the coaching.

Yea, it's the coaches fault that the Jets front 3 have absolutely sucked and have been getting blown off the LOS.

[PeterNorth09]

Yea, it's the coaches fault that the Jets front 3 have absolutely sucked and have been getting blown off the LOS.

The front office decided before the season that an undersized and underacheiving Dewayne Robertson was THE MAN at NT.

The front office decided to invest $ and cap room in a 36 year old KVO.

We passed on Ngata and Gabe Watson in the draft. You want to argue Ferguson over Ngata that's fine though Sperm Edwards has pretty much schooled anyone who was arguing that. You want to argue Anthony Schlegel over Gabe Watson? Please.

[PatsFanTX]

The front office decided before the season that an undersized and underacheiving Dewayne Robertson was THE MAN at NT.

The front office decided to invest $ and cap room in a 36 year old KVO.

We passed on Ngata and Gabe Watson in the draft. You want to argue Ferguson over Ngata that's fine though Sperm Edwards has pretty much schooled anyone who was arguing that. You want to argue Anthony Schlegel over Gabe Watson? Please.

Whoa, the only point I was making is that the players have sucked in their new roles.

I actually agree with everything you said from a personnel standpoint.

[PeterNorth09]

Whoa, the only point I was making is that the players have sucked in their new roles.

I actually agree with everything you said from a personnel standpoint.

So why give the players the new roles if they were obviously going to suck in them?

[PatsFanTX]

So why give the players the new roles if they were obviously going to suck in them?

Was that an exact known going into the season?

Do you remember all the threads on this board that said DFat would have no problem playing on the nose?

[gang_green03]

They're playing the 4-3 at times to and they still can't stop the run. They'll need a run-stuffer in either defense and I don't see anyone doing that.

NT is hard to find but I'm not gonna kill them for passing on Watson. He was extremely inconsistent and I think he was even benched at one point in his senior season. He was out of shape during the season and he's lazy. The fact that he had the talent to be a top 5 pick but lasted till what the 4th or 5th round says it all.

Maybe he'll turn it around in the NFL and I didn't like the Schegal and Smith picks much either but I don't see how anyone could kill the Jets for passing on him at the time. Its easy to look back in hindsight.

1st post!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Was that an exact known going into the season?

Do you remember all the threads on this board that said DFat would have no problem playing on the nose?

It was a miniscule list of people that thought DRob would be a good fit at the nose. Particularly after he lost 10+ lbs or whatever it was.

The problem is compounded with Kimo suddenly sucking so badly. Two horrible DL'men out of 3, who can barely contain 1 OL'man (let alone two), is a recipe for disaster.

The big problem isn't just that. I mean I'll be happy with a decent season but no one realistically thinks we're SB contenders this year. The problem is compounded b/c at this time there doesn't seem to be an adequate replacement available for '07 either. And if we finally draft someone in '08 then your NG in what could/should be a true "contender" year is an inexperienced rookie.

[Barton]

It was a miniscule list of people that thought DRob would be a good fit at the nose. Particularly after he lost 10+ lbs or whatever it was.

The problem is compounded with Kimo suddenly sucking so badly. Two horrible DL'men out of 3, who can barely contain 1 OL'man (let alone two), is a recipe for disaster.

The big problem isn't just that. I mean I'll be happy with a decent season but no one realistically thinks we're SB contenders this year. The problem is compounded b/c at this time there doesn't seem to be an adequate replacement available for '07 either. And if we finally draft someone in '08 then your NG in what could/should be a true "contender" year is an inexperienced rookie.

DING DING DING

The 3-4 is not gonna work out, its obvious.

I'm just hoping Mangini isnt stubborn and stupid enuff to continue running this crapfest defense next year.

[Sperm Edwards]

DING DING DING

The 3-4 is not gonna work out, its obvious.

I'm just hoping Mangini isnt stubborn and stupid enuff to continue running this crapfest defense next year.

We're going to run it next year. Your "hope" should be that a replacement gets released by another team for cap reasons.

[PatsFanTX]

We're going to run it next year. Your "hope" should be that a replacement gets released by another team for cap reasons.

Exactly.

The chances of Mangini scrapping the 3-4 are miniscule at best.

[LionelRichie]

DING DING DING

The 3-4 is not gonna work out, its obvious.

I'm just hoping Mangini isnt stubborn and stupid enuff to continue running this crapfest defense next year.

being an NFL head coach is a volatile job. if mangini ****s the bed, especially in NY, he will be hard pressed to get another shot for some time. when you get older you will realize that when your ass is on the line you go with what you know best.

at the end of the day the problem is not the scheme. the problem is the individual players getting blown up. the jets stink equally in the 3-4 and 4-3.

[JetCane]

They're playing the 4-3 at times to and they still can't stop the run. They'll need a run-stuffer in either defense and I don't see anyone doing that.

NT is hard to find but I'm not gonna kill them for passing on Watson. He was extremely inconsistent and I think he was even benched at one point in his senior season. He was out of shape during the season and he's lazy. The fact that he had the talent to be a top 5 pick but lasted till what the 4th or 5th round says it all.

Maybe he'll turn it around in the NFL and I didn't like the Schegal and Smith picks much either but I don't see how anyone could kill the Jets for passing on him at the time. Its easy to look back in hindsight.

1st post!!!

Welcome!

Nice first post.