DUNGY TAKES PATS FEUD TO NEXT LEVEL

[SoFlaJets]

POSTED 4:03 p.m. EDT, September 14, 2007

DUNGY TAKES PATS FEUD TO NEXT LEVEL

Though no longer in the same division, the Colts and the Patriots have as bitter a rivalry as any two teams could have, in any sport. Until last year, the Pats owned the Colts in the postseason. But with a stirring second-half comeback (maybe they changed their defensive signals at intermission), the Colts finally broke through in the 2006 playoffs.

Now, Colts coach Tony Dungy is speaking out regarding the "Patriots Act" controversy, and he directed some significant criticism at coach Bill Belichick.

"We seem to have tarnished Barry Bonds," Dungy said on Friday, noting that Belichick's success could similarly be questioned. "We've pointed out that, even though he's a great player and he's hit a lot of home runs, because of what some people that work around him have done, it seems to have tarnished him in the court of public opinion. We'll see.

"Really, sad day for the NFL," Dungy added. "It's another case of the 99 percent good things that are happening being overshadowed by one percent bad. Again, people aren't talking about our product, they're talking about a negative incident."

Dungy also said that Patriots owner Bob Kraft will constantly face scrutiny as a result of the situation.

"He's going to have to answer questions all the time, from here on out," Dungy said. "When headsets go wrong, he's going to have to answer if it's something that just happened or is this planned. There's bad grass everywhere, but when the grass doesn't grow up there, he's going to be asked about it, and that's too bad."

There's no long grass at Gillette Stadium, but we get the point. The deeper message could be aimed at Kraft himself, and might be intended to get the owner to think that the team will be the subject of suspicion until Belichick is no longer the head coach.

Despite Dungy's mild-mannered demeanor, we think that this is a prime example of the never-ending effort to obtain an edge. If, for example, the Pats were to part ways with Belichick, it would presumably be easier for the Colts to beat them.

We know that's an extremely cynical view of Dungy. But news of secret dog-fighting compounds and not-so-secret videotaping techniques tends to make folks more inclined to look for that which does not always meet the eye.

[i remember shea]

POSTED 4:03 p.m. EDT, September 14, 2007

DUNGY TAKES PATS FEUD TO NEXT LEVEL

Though no longer in the same division, the Colts and the Patriots have as bitter a rivalry as any two teams could have, in any sport. Until last year, the Pats owned the Colts in the postseason. But with a stirring second-half comeback (maybe they changed their defensive signals at intermission), the Colts finally broke through in the 2006 playoffs.

Now, Colts coach Tony Dungy is speaking out regarding the "Patriots Act" controversy, and he directed some significant criticism at coach Bill Belichick.

"We seem to have tarnished Barry Bonds," Dungy said on Friday, noting that Belichick's success could similarly be questioned. "We've pointed out that, even though he's a great player and he's hit a lot of home runs, because of what some people that work around him have done, it seems to have tarnished him in the court of public opinion. We'll see.

"Really, sad day for the NFL," Dungy added. "It's another case of the 99 percent good things that are happening being overshadowed by one percent bad. Again, people aren't talking about our product, they're talking about a negative incident."

Dungy also said that Patriots owner Bob Kraft will constantly face scrutiny as a result of the situation.

"He's going to have to answer questions all the time, from here on out," Dungy said. "When headsets go wrong, he's going to have to answer if it's something that just happened or is this planned. There's bad grass everywhere, but when the grass doesn't grow up there, he's going to be asked about it, and that's too bad."

There's no long grass at Gillette Stadium, but we get the point. The deeper message could be aimed at Kraft himself, and might be intended to get the owner to think that the team will be the subject of suspicion until Belichick is no longer the head coach.

Despite Dungy's mild-mannered demeanor, we think that this is a prime example of the never-ending effort to obtain an edge. If, for example, the Pats were to part ways with Belichick, it would presumably be easier for the Colts to beat them.

We know that's an extremely cynical view of Dungy. But news of secret dog-fighting compounds and not-so-secret videotaping techniques tends to make folks more inclined to look for that which does not always meet the eye.

when a guy comes out like that on the issue...sticks his neck out like that...isn't it hard to rationalize that "everbody does it"?

oh yeah....pats cheated.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Dungy is right... No matter how I look at it, the man is right.

Bonds and BB will always be in the same page in my book... Cheaters 101.

[PFSIKH]

Dungy is right... No matter how I look at it, the man is right.

Bonds and BB will always be in the same page in my book... Cheaters 101.

Yeah, but you are a lunatic.

[Alk]

I knew Dungy would be chomping at the bit on this. I'm surprised it took him this long.

[i remember shea]

Yeah, but you are a lunatic.

dude, you left out the *

[i remember shea]

I knew Dungy would be chomping at the bit on this. I'm surprised it took him this long.

dude, you left out the *

[PFSIKH]

I knew Dungy would be chomping at the bit on this. I'm surprised it took him this long.

For all the deserved knocks on Belichick, when the Patriots have won titles, there are no arrests like Colts had.

Plus, I found it funny the remark about the grass. Kind of like turning up the heat in the Dome during the AFC CHampionship game.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Yeah, but you are a lunatic.

And your a fan of a coach and team that cheats to win... I would much rather be a lunatic than a no life Pats fan who no has no room to talk on a Jets site... Because in the eyes of many (Not just Jet fans) The Pats as an orgination are a fraud... And as a Jet fan it's sad to see, but I love it. And if any Pats fan still wants to come to a Jets site and run that mouth... Guess what? every word coming out of the mouth of Patriot fans is a fraud... And means nothing at all.

Cheaters 101.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

For all the deserved knocks on Belichick, when the Patriots have won titles, there are no arrests like Colts had.

Plus, I found it funny the remark about the grass. Kind of like turning up the heat in the Dome during the AFC CHampionship game.

Dude... lmao... Are you stupid or something?

What players do off of the field (As long as it's not roids.... R.Harrison) is thier own buisness... And has nothing to do with playing the game of football or winning rings...

The Pats cheating... lmao...Actually affects the game of football and is its actually called CHEATING...

A player getting arrested does not affect the game of football...unlike the Pats who have been doing this for some time now.

The Colts won the SB THE RIGHT WAY... In my eyes the Pats never won a SB... They cheated the NFL.

[BaumerJet]

when a guy comes out like that on the issue...sticks his neck out like that...isn't it hard to rationalize that "everbody does it"?

oh yeah....pats cheated.

That & the fact that 2-years ago Dungy complained to the NFL that his connection to Payton Manning was somehow "CUT OFF" durring the playoff game in Foxboro. Then last year, the Patriot had refused to cut the grass on the field prior to the game...

Mumble's cheating continues...

[NIGHT STALKER]

Yeah, but you are a lunatic.

PF, this is the third time I've posted this awaiting your repsonse...I guess I fall into the lunatic catagory too...anyway...let's try it one more time.

PF...you still don't get it. It doesn't make a difference if the Pats were a better team, it doesn't make a difference if they used it just once on Sunday...the fact they used it is against NFL policy...hence, they cheated.

Let me try to explain it this way. I can't remember if you have a combat MOS or not, but that's besides the point. What are they training the troops on now to qualify on the rifle range, an M-16? Say, you and I are on the rifle range and we are both using the same weapon...I may even be considered a better shot than you (your reference to Vilma saying the Patriots were the better team)...we are firing at the same targets...but, all of a sudden I attach a scope to my rifle. Do I now have an unfair advantage or not...even though I might have scored a better session without it, I decided to really put myself over the top and use a scope. Make sense to you PF? Both devices (camera and or audio in football and me using a scope) to improve your chances.

If you still don't understand the comparison I just explained to you, you're either too blinded by your love for the Pats or you just don't care.

The Pats cheated...period.

[The Troll]

When you have Tony Dungy, who is about the last person in the world who would start ****, coming out and bashing you, you have to be a real son of a bitch.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

When you have Tony Dungy, who is about the last person in the world who would start ****, coming out and bashing you, you have to be a real son of a bitch.[/quote]

Or how about... A son of a cheater?

Like father, like son.

[NY JETS 29]

dont the jets plat the ravens this weekend?

just checking

[Alk]

When you have Tony Dungy, who is about the last person in the world who would start ****, coming out and bashing you, you have to be a real son of a bitch.

The last person? I think as far as whiners go he is only behind Marvin Lewis.

[madmike1]

Tony Dungy has every right to be pissed. He's been robbed of at least one super bowl and probably more.

[tparich]

The last person? I think as far as whiners go he is only behind Marvin Lewis.

Dungy is also one of the most well respected coaches in the league as well

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Dungy is also one of the most well respected coaches in the league as well

Something that we can never say about BB as fans of football...

Parcells was a great coach... He coached the right way.

Bill CheatAhChick could have been a great coach, but he cheated and crossed the line.

Please... I never wanna see BB compared to BP ever again... Thats an insult to BP's.

[PFSIKH]

PF, this is the third time I've posted this awaiting your repsonse...I guess I fall into the lunatic catagory too...anyway...let's try it one more time.

PF...you still don't get it. It doesn't make a difference if the Pats were a better team, it doesn't make a difference if they used it just once on Sunday...the fact they used it is against NFL policy...hence, they cheated.

Let me try to explain it this way. I can't remember if you have a combat MOS or not, but that's besides the point. What are they training the troops on now to qualify on the rifle range, an M-16? Say, you and I are on the rifle range and we are both using the same weapon...I may even be considered a better shot than you (your reference to Vilma saying the Patriots were the better team)...we are firing at the same targets...but, all of a sudden I attach a scope to my rifle. Do I now have an unfair advantage or not...even though I might have scored a better session without it, I decided to really put myself over the top and use a scope. Make sense to you PF? Both devices (camera and or audio in football and me using a scope) to improve your chances.

If you still don't understand the comparison I just explained to you, you're either too blinded by your love for the Pats or you just don't care.

The Pats cheated...period.

NS - I am sorry I missed your previous posts.

I am a combat service support MOS in a combat arms unit.

First, you probably need to read up on things because it is a little different today. I came from a garrison unit and we all had M-16s with iron sites to qualify. Now in an Infantry unit, I have an M4 with an M68 attached. The M4 is better and if you are not upto speed the M68 puts a nice red dot on my aim point. Kind of takes alot of the grip and breathing control out of the picture. If you ever goto the green zone and look at any 20 soldiers. You know who the REMFs are and who are the ones that actually leave the wire.

Second, I am not disputing the fact the Patriots cheated. I am also not going to lose any sleep when there have been a lot of people that saying stealing signals is acceptable and part of the game. The only problem is how the Patriots did it. Shanahan said he has a guy with binoculars recording signals. By halftime and sometimes by the end of the first quarter they know the other teams signals. Where is the uproar? The Barber brothers saying it is common place. Where is the uproar? Randy Edsall of UCONN said he saw it done when he was in the NFL 10 years ago. There is a slight problem with your example. With a scope we know you have an advantage. How much of an advantage did the Patriots gain? No one knows.

Here is the problem I think most people have with it. It is not so much they cheated, but they general hate towards Belichick. If this was a beloved coach like Joe Gibbs or Marv Levy doing it, I seriously doubt there would be that much of a problem with it. However, Belichick is an a$$ towards the media and most of the reporting of him (probably true) has him coming off as an arrogant prick.

Where is the line drawn on cheating? Listening to the calls and matching them to sideline picture of a play is ok, but using a video camera is punishable by death? See my point? What I am equating this to is saying groping and ripping the clothes off a woman is ok as long as you do not have penetration. Penetrate, you die. Both are wrong, but one is acceptable because of the degree it was done to. BTW sorry for the crude example.

A spade is a spade is a spade. Either it all is punishable or do not expect me to be anything more then apathetic about the Patriots doing something most people are stating as happening anyways.

[drago]

when a guy comes out like that on the issue...sticks his neck out like that...isn't it hard to rationalize that "everbody does it"?

oh yeah....pats cheated.

dungy is an upstanding guy. to hear him come out and say this is a pretty big deal. I don't think we have seen the end of the punishment for BB, it has to be worse than what was issued by goodell.

[Lady Jet]

NS - The only problem is how the Patriots did it.

But it's a huge problem.

No one is denying that teams have been gawking at the oppositions sidelines, trying to decipher DC's signals. I think we can all agree that this is common practice. But a video is a lot better at accurately capturing and storing that data than a human eye. It's also, not in the written rules that you can't visually spy. But the video recording is.

There was an owners meeting, just this past spring, where they specifically brought up the recording of signals. There was concern that this use of modern technology would definitely have an effect on the integrity of the game. The Pats were brought up in this discussion. I can imagine that Bob Kraft was at the meeting and knew of this discussion.

Goodell, addressed this concern in a memo, right before the season started.

But Belicheat, arrogantly, brought his camera anyway, and blatantly broke this rule, right under the Goodells headquarters, across the river.

[Whaler53]

I knew Dungy would be chomping at the bit on this. I'm surprised it took him this long.

Yeah, same here. I'm still waiting to hear what NaPolian has to say.

He's been rather silent on it, maybe he's too busy pushing around a low level employee

[CoachTsurfing]

Yeah, but you are a lunatic.

If you can't see that your team cheated you are really delusional. Sit back a minute and think. Your team video taped coaches to steal their signals. You don't think that's cheating, then I'm never playing monopoly with you.

[CoachTsurfing]

NS - I am sorry I missed your previous posts.

I am a combat service support MOS in a combat arms unit.

First, you probably need to read up on things because it is a little different today. I came from a garrison unit and we all had M-16s with iron sites to qualify. Now in an Infantry unit, I have an M4 with an M68 attached. The M4 is better and if you are not upto speed the M68 puts a nice red dot on my aim point. Kind of takes alot of the grip and breathing control out of the picture. If you ever goto the green zone and look at any 20 soldiers. You know who the REMFs are and who are the ones that actually leave the wire.

Second, I am not disputing the fact the Patriots cheated. I am also not going to lose any sleep when there have been a lot of people that saying stealing signals is acceptable and part of the game. The only problem is how the Patriots did it. Shanahan said he has a guy with binoculars recording signals. By halftime and sometimes by the end of the first quarter they know the other teams signals. Where is the uproar? The Barber brothers saying it is common place. Where is the uproar? Randy Edsall of UCONN said he saw it done when he was in the NFL 10 years ago. There is a slight problem with your example. With a scope we know you have an advantage. How much of an advantage did the Patriots gain? No one knows.

Here is the problem I think most people have with it. It is not so much they cheated, but they general hate towards Belichick. If this was a beloved coach like Joe Gibbs or Marv Levy doing it, I seriously doubt there would be that much of a problem with it. However, Belichick is an a$$ towards the media and most of the reporting of him (probably true) has him coming off as an arrogant prick.

Where is the line drawn on cheating? Listening to the calls and matching them to sideline picture of a play is ok, but using a video camera is punishable by death? See my point? What I am equating this to is saying groping and ripping the clothes off a woman is ok as long as you do not have penetration. Penetrate, you die. Both are wrong, but one is acceptable because of the degree it was done to. BTW sorry for the crude example.

A spade is a spade is a spade. Either it all is punishable or do not expect me to be anything more then apathetic about the Patriots doing something most people are stating as happening anyways.

De nile. But I do agree with one of your statements. If Shanahan was using binoculers then he is just as guilty.

[RSJ]

POSTED 4:03 p.m. EDT, September 14, 2007

DUNGY TAKES PATS FEUD TO NEXT LEVEL

Though no longer in the same division, the Colts and the Patriots have as bitter a rivalry as any two teams could have, in any sport. Until last year, the Pats owned the Colts in the postseason. But with a stirring second-half comeback (maybe they changed their defensive signals at intermission), the Colts finally broke through in the 2006 playoffs.

Now, Colts coach Tony Dungy is speaking out regarding the "Patriots Act" controversy, and he directed some significant criticism at coach Bill Belichick.

"We seem to have tarnished Barry Bonds," Dungy said on Friday, noting that Belichick's success could similarly be questioned. "We've pointed out that, even though he's a great player and he's hit a lot of home runs, because of what some people that work around him have done, it seems to have tarnished him in the court of public opinion. We'll see.

"Really, sad day for the NFL," Dungy added. "It's another case of the 99 percent good things that are happening being overshadowed by one percent bad. Again, people aren't talking about our product, they're talking about a negative incident."

Dungy also said that Patriots owner Bob Kraft will constantly face scrutiny as a result of the situation.

"He's going to have to answer questions all the time, from here on out," Dungy said. "When headsets go wrong, he's going to have to answer if it's something that just happened or is this planned. There's bad grass everywhere, but when the grass doesn't grow up there, he's going to be asked about it, and that's too bad."

There's no long grass at Gillette Stadium, but we get the point. The deeper message could be aimed at Kraft himself, and might be intended to get the owner to think that the team will be the subject of suspicion until Belichick is no longer the head coach.

Despite Dungy's mild-mannered demeanor, we think that this is a prime example of the never-ending effort to obtain an edge. If, for example, the Pats were to part ways with Belichick, it would presumably be easier for the Colts to beat them.

We know that's an extremely cynical view of Dungy. But news of secret dog-fighting compounds and not-so-secret videotaping techniques tends to make folks more inclined to look for that which does not always meet the eye.

I give Dungy tons of credit for sticking his neck out there and telling it like it is. At one point I would root against the Colts - but not anymore. They are a class organization.

[Alk]

Some comments from Chad Johnson...

[RSJ]

Some comments from Chad Johnson...

[BP]

Some comments from Chad Johnson...

[Ghost]

When you have Tony Dungy, who is about the last person in the world who would start ****, coming out and bashing you, you have to be a real son of a bitch.

I agree, he's such a nice guy on and off the field. You have to respect the guy.

[crashingjet]

For all the deserved knocks on Belichick, when the Patriots have won titles, there are no arrests like Colts had.

Plus, I found it funny the remark about the grass. Kind of like turning up the heat in the Dome during the AFC CHampionship game.

Or bringing out a snowplow to clear a path in the snow for a kicker.

People in glass houses...

[crashingjet]

dont the jets plat the ravens this weekend?

just checking

Dude, your sig. is making me freak the F out.

Ray Lucas...

[SoFlaJets]

But it's a huge problem.

No one is denying that teams have been gawking at the oppositions sidelines, trying to decipher DC's signals. I think we can all agree that this is common practice. But a video is a lot better at accurately capturing and storing that data than a human eye. It's also, not in the written rules that you can't visually spy. But the video recording is.

There was an owners meeting, just this past spring, where they specifically brought up the recording of signals. There was concern that this use of modern technology would definitely have an effect on the integrity of the game. The Pats were brought up in this discussion. I can imagine that Bob Kraft was at the meeting and knew of this discussion.

Goodell, addressed this concern in a memo, right before the season started.

But Belicheat, arrogantly, brought his camera anyway, and blatantly broke this rule, right under the Goodells headquarters, across the river.

what a great post LJ-I read this to my wife-I'm very impressed-you put it better than any I've read since the story broke

ATTENTION GREENBEANS!!!! POTW nom-THIS should be the winner hands down

[Thai Jet]

I knew Dungy would be chomping at the bit on this. I'm surprised it took him this long.

Doubt Dungy was "chomping at the bit". He's not like Beliprick. Anywaaaay he waited, correctly so , till the facts were in before commenting. He's echoing what everyone else is saying...*

[Thai Jet]

De nile. But I do agree with one of your statements. If Shanahan was using binoculers then he is just as guilty.

I disagree. I don't think that using binoculars is against the rules as they are written.