Adrien Clarke was inexcusable

[bitonti]

I can understand the Kendall situation, I can understand not wanting to buckle to the pressure of a player demanding a new contract. I can understand all that.

but my problem is this - everyone and his dog knew that Adrien Clarke was going to suck.

this is a player who started 4 games for the eagles, (they lost 3) and was so terrible, so awful the birds drafted two guards in two years to replace him (young and jean-gilles)

yet here we were in August, trying to fool ourselves that this guy really could be a good player.

this was not a tough decision. It wasn't a close call. We all know he would be bad - and he's been very very bad.

I just can't wrap my brain around the decision to start Adrien Clarke. I don't really blame Mangini who I have to believe is starting the best player on the roster for the position... but i can blame the accountant who runs the team.

whether Tanny wants to realize it or not, the league has changed - the days when you can just find a quality interior lineman *(on either side of the ball)* are over.

you can't just slot in the next Jacob Bender or matt McChesney and hope for the best. even the Pats, whom we are supposed to be emulating, are using first rounders on guards (Logan Mankins).

regardless, Adrien Clarke is the type of player who should not be employed by any NFL team in any real capacity (maybe he could be a beer man or security guard). This was obvious to anyone with a casual understanding of football.

how did Tanny think this was gonna be a viable plan B?

[#27TheDominator]

I can understand the Kendall situation, I can understand not wanting to buckle to the pressure of a player demanding a new contract. I can understand all that.

but my problem is this - everyone and his dog knew that Adrien Clarke was going to suck.

this is a player who started 4 games for the eagles, (they lost 3) and was so terrible, so awful the birds drafted two guards in two years to replace him (young and jean-gilles)

yet here we were in August, trying to fool ourselves that this guy really could be a good player.

this was not a tough decision. It wasn't a close call. We all know he would be bad - and he's been very very bad.

I just can't wrap my brain around the decision to start Adrien Clarke. I don't really blame Mangini who I have to believe is starting the best player on the roster for the position... but i can blame the accountant who runs the team.

whether Tanny wants to realize it or not, the league has changed - the days when you can just find a quality interior lineman *(on either side of the ball)* are over.

you can't just slot in the next Jacob Bender or matt McChesney and hope for the best. even the Pats, whom we are supposed to be emulating, are using first rounders on guards (Logan Mankins).

regardless, Adrien Clarke is the type of player who should not be employed by any NFL team in any real capacity (maybe he could be a beer man or security guard). This was obvious to anyone with a casual understanding of football.

how did Tanny think this was gonna be a viable plan B?

You, I and your dog may have known he was going to suck, but everybody else didn't. Don't make me search for the posts from August of people swearing up and down he was an improvement over Kendall. Wade Smith too. I'm not surprised Clarke sucks, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten injured yet.

[bitonti]

You, I and your dog may have known he was going to suck, but everybody else didn't. Don't make me search for the posts from August of people swearing up and down he was an improvement over Kendall. Wade Smith too. I'm not surprised Clarke sucks, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten injured yet.

yeah please don't search, im sure I was one of those people swearing he'd be ok or maybe even better

but that's just fan-think - people trying to convince themselves that team could conceivably be decent.

but tanny isn't a fan, he should have known better - and in the cold light of January, when Clarke was signed (after a year without any NFL job) even the most die-hard fan knew this player wasn't any good.

[joebabyny]

I can understand the Kendall situation, I can understand not wanting to buckle to the pressure of a player demanding a new contract. I can understand all that.

but my problem is this - everyone and his dog knew that Adrien Clarke was going to suck.

this is a player who started 4 games for the eagles, (they lost 3) and was so terrible, so awful the birds drafted two guards in two years to replace him (young and jean-gilles)

yet here we were in August, trying to fool ourselves that this guy really could be a good player.

this was not a tough decision. It wasn't a close call. We all know he would be bad - and he's been very very bad.

I just can't wrap my brain around the decision to start Adrien Clarke. I don't really blame Mangini who I have to believe is starting the best player on the roster for the position... but i can blame the accountant who runs the team.

whether Tanny wants to realize it or not, the league has changed - the days when you can just find a quality interior lineman *(on either side of the ball)* are over.

you can't just slot in the next Jacob Bender or matt McChesney and hope for the best. even the Pats, whom we are supposed to be emulating, are using first rounders on guards (Logan Mankins).

regardless, Adrien Clarke is the type of player who should not be employed by any NFL team in any real capacity (maybe he could be a beer man or security guard). This was obvious to anyone with a casual understanding of football.

how did Tanny think this was gonna be a viable plan B?

YUP, and I can't understand the posters here who really think guys like him or bender belong as nfl starters just because they were drafted. Bender i think is an even bigger joke as a starting nfl guard.

[joebabyny]

You, I and your dog may have known he was going to suck, but everybody else didn't. Don't make me search for the posts from August of people swearing up and down he was an improvement over Kendall. Wade Smith too. I'm not surprised Clarke sucks, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten injured yet.

lol, i was very critical all along of the whole Kendall situation, and it definitely blew up in our face. Who knows how that may have helped our running game this year. After all, we did more with less running talent last year and the biggest difference in personel there is Kendall.

We need to trade down, and trade players and get as many first day picks as possible and shore up the line on both sides of the ball before we can think of going for any of the highlight-film guys. Give me a bunch of young high rated rookies on the o and d line and I am ahppy to take a beating next year while they learn, and then in the next draft we can go for the franchise RB or QB if KC isn't our guy.

[JetCane]

how did Tanny think this was gonna be a viable plan B?

I put these personnel decisioms more on mangi

Clarke has been really bad. He'd be okay in a wade smith/backup type role, but not out there starting.

lol, i was very critical all along of the whole Kendall situation, and it definitely blew up in our face. Who knows how that may have helped our running game this year. After all, we did more with less running talent last year and the biggest difference in personel there is Kendall.

We need to trade down, and trade players and get as many first day picks as possible and shore up the line on both sides of the ball before we can think of going for any of the highlight-film guys. Give me a bunch of young high rated rookies on the o and d line and I am ahppy to take a beating next year while they learn, and then in the next draft we can go for the franchise RB or QB if KC isn't our guy.

The running game was clearly affected- they cant run left.

It showed up most harshly in the iggles game.

That also made gameplanning against the Jets easier- no vertical threat, and no running game over the left side. But we have gadget plays.

[CoachTsurfing]

got to agree with everything except you can't blame mangini. He definately has a say in who his team goes after. I'm sure tanny and mangini talk about things like, me I have no linemen that can play. why don't we draft one or sign a good f.a.

[SoFlaJets]

What I don't understand is WHY Tony Wise is our O-Line coach-he was horrible down here when he was thje Fin's guy and was part of the blame for Miami sucking his last year. IMO he should also along with Bob Sutton be given the door the minute our season ends

I would like to hear from some of our Finfan friends on what they remember about Wise's tenure in Miami

[CoachTsurfing]

What I don't understand is WHY Tony Wise is our O-Line coach-he was horrible down here when he was thje Fin's guy and was part of the blame for Miami sucking his last year. IMO he should also along with Bob Sutton be given the door the minute our season ends

I would like to hear from some of our Finfan friends on what they remember about Wise's tenure in Miami

sometimes it's all about who you know

[124]

Jacob Bender is a joke as a Guard, joebaby, but as a Tackle he is not. He is a Right Tackle, not a Left Guard, and The "Mangenious" decided that he could just throw a DII tackle into a guard spot and he quickly found out that he could not.

[joebabyny]

Jacob Bender is a joke as a Guard, joebaby, but as a Tackle he is not. He is a Right Tackle, not a Left Guard, and The "Mangenious" decided that he could just throw a DII tackle into a guard spot and he quickly found out that he could not.

well i think, actually i know, i said Bender as a starting guard in the nfl is a joke, so my statement is correct. As far as him being a good starting RT, we don't know that, but i would not hold my breath either.

[JetCane]

What I don't understand is WHY Tony Wise is our O-Line coach-he was horrible down here when he was thje Fin's guy and was part of the blame for Miami sucking his last year. IMO he should also along with Bob Sutton be given the door the minute our season ends

I would like to hear from some of our Finfan friends on what they remember about Wise's tenure in Miami

http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coaches

Wise joins the Jets after most recently coaching the offensive line for the Miami Dolphins in 2001-04. In 2002, his unit helped pave the way for an AFC-best 156.5 yards rushing per game. Prior to joining Miami he served in the same capacity with the Carolina Panthers (1999-2000) after spending six seasons with the Chicago Bears, four of which he also served as the assistant head coach. Wise entered the NFL in 1989 with the Dallas Cowboys and worked on head coach Jimmy Johnson's staff through 1992, earning a ring after the Cowboys' Super Bowl XXVI win over the Buffalo Bills. He then departed for Chicago, where he first served as the Bears' offensive line coach from 1993-94 and then added the duties of assistant head coach to his responsibilities through 1998, before taking the offensive line position with the Panthers.

Wise, a former offensive lineman at Ithaca College, is a native of Newtonville, NY, and began his coaching career in 1973 at Albany State. Then he spent a year each at Bridgeport, Central Connecticut and Washington State before moving onto the University of Pittsburgh (1977-78) before heading to Oklahoma State (1979-83), Syracuse (1984) and the University of Miami (1985-88).

Wise joins the Jets after most recently coaching the offensive line for the Miami Dolphins in 2001-04. In 2002, his unit helped pave the way for an AFC-best 156.5 yards rushing per game. Prior to joining Miami he served in the same capacity with the Carolina Panthers (1999-2000) after spending six seasons with the Chicago Bears, four of which he also served as the assistant head coach. Wise entered the NFL in 1989 with the Dallas Cowboys and worked on head coach Jimmy Johnson's staff through 1992, earning a ring after the Cowboys' Super Bowl XXVI win over the Buffalo Bills. He then departed for Chicago, where he first served as the Bears' offensive line coach from 1993-94 and then added the duties of assistant head coach to his responsibilities through 1998, before taking the offensive line position with the Panthers.

Wise, a former offensive lineman at Ithaca College, is a native of Newtonville, NY, and began his coaching career in 1973 at Albany State. Then he spent a year each at Bridgeport, Central Connecticut and Washington State before moving onto the University of Pittsburgh (1977-78) before heading to Oklahoma State (1979-83), Syracuse (1984) and the University of Miami (1985-88).

[SoFlaJets]

do you like him JC? I know you did a lot of reporting on him in the camp reports-I seem to remember him almost being run out on a rail his lat year in Miami. They were complaining on Miami talk radio about how come they can't get THEIR OLmen to perform like the Jets-regardless of where they were drafted

[JetCane]

do you like him JC? I know you did a lot of reporting on him in the camp reports-I seem to remember him almost being run out on a rail his lat year in Miami. They were complaining on Miami talk radio about how come they can't get THEIR OLmen to perform like the Jets-regardless of where they were drafted

I think it's time for him as well as a couple of other coaches to be given their walking papers. His unit hasnt performed too well, and they need an upgrade.

I mentioned him a lot in the tc reports because the OL works out right by the fence where the fans are, so it's easy to hear him and watch them. He is a hard working guy imo, but hasnt shown real good results. OTOH, how do we know he hasnt been responsible for brick's development, which has gotten decent reviews this year on the whole. Mangold- no complaints. Bender, a project. Moore got a raise so they like how he's done.

Maybe it's just not having the horses? Maybe the other guys just arent that good, no matter how hard he coaches them up? They need to bring in better players at RT and LG; that is two-fifths of the line. Moore was given the money, so he's obviously in the picture at RG.

It's hard to say the OL is going to be any good when you have three jags on it. But maybe a different OL coach could get more out of them. Whether they keep Wise or not, they need better players at those spots.

[SoFlaJets]

I think it's time for him as well as a couple of other coaches to be given their walking papers. His unit hasnt performed too well, and they need an upgrade.

I mentioned him a lot in the tc reports because the OL works out right by the fence where the fans are, so it's easy to hear him and watch them. He is a hard working guy imo, but hasnt shown real good results. OTOH, how do we know he hasnt been responsible for brick's development, which has gotten decent reviews this year on the whole. Mangold- no complaints. Bender, a project. Moore got a raise so they like how he's done.

Maybe it's just not having the horses? Maybe the other guys just arent that good, no matter how hard he coaches them up? They need to bring in better players at RT and LG; that is two-fifths of the line. Moore was given the money, so he's obviously in the picture at RG.

It's hard to say the OL is going to be any good when you have three jags on it. But maybe a different OL coach could get more out of them. Whether they keep Wise or not, they need better players at those spots.

good post JC

[bitonti]

Jacob Bender is a joke as a Guard, joebaby, but as a Tackle he is not. He is a Right Tackle, not a Left Guard, and The "Mangenious" decided that he could just throw a DII tackle into a guard spot and he quickly found out that he could not.

this is an ill conceived rant

first off mangini didn't 'throw' Bender anywhere, the guy hasn't started a real game.

secondly, almost any RT should be able to play both LG and RG. Fabini made the transition easily and was kicking the Jets butts' up and down the field when Washington came to town. It's not that different, in fact guard is easier.

as for Bender the player, he's a great athlete but a huge Cavka-like project and it will be at least 3 seasons before we can write him off as a bust.

I still hold out hope...

[#27TheDominator]

this is an ill conceived rant

first off mangini didn't 'throw' Bender anywhere, the guy hasn't started a real game.

secondly, almost any RT should be able to play both LG and RG. Fabini made the transition easily and was kicking the Jets butts' up and down the field when Washington came to town. It's not that different, in fact guard is easier.

as for Bender the player, he's a great athlete but a huge Cavka-like project and it will be at least 3 seasons before we can write him off as a bust.

I still hold out hope...

...but not for Clarke?

[bitonti]

...but not for Clarke?

no- he had all the talent in the word to be a 2nd round pick out of OSU but ended up going late because he's got twinkies where his brain should be. the fact that he was unemployed for a full year before the Jets signed him pretty much says it all.

bender at least has upside. will he reach that upside? who can say - but Clarke is just defective. this year he has been terrible, i think that's obvious to everyone.

[pjam76]

Bender isn't ever going to be a bust.. Even if he never really plays in the NFL... He's a 6th round pick from a school who doesn't even play with the big boys.... Who knows if he'll ever be an avg tackle or guard in the NFL...... He sure has a long way to go that's for sure...

The problem with the Kendall crap is they knew about the crap before the draft........ They had to know he wanted more money, they weren't going to pay him, and since he did something like this in the past, ..............anyway, the way they treated him in preseason proved they never wanted him back this season...... So why wait until a couple weeks before the season starts to trade him?

If they did it back in March or April, at least they could deal with the situation. Everybody and their brother knew Clarke and Smith were not the answer. People proclaiming they were just drank way too much kool aid. Clarke and Smith might not be terrible 2nd or 3rd stringers who play a game or two here and there, but they are not legit NFL starters.....

I just didn't get the whole handling of the Kendall situation..... Why they did it I can understand. But how they did it just speaks about an arrogant bunch who thought they'd get away with murder and laugh about it later.....> Well at 1-8 and with a worse OL than last season, I guess they should be the ones being laughed at and not the other way around.

[Thai Jet]

I can understand the Kendall situation, I can understand not wanting to buckle to the pressure of a player demanding a new contract. I can understand all that.

but my problem is this - everyone and his dog knew that Adrien Clarke was going to suck.

this is a player who started 4 games for the eagles, (they lost 3) and was so terrible, so awful the birds drafted two guards in two years to replace him (young and jean-gilles)

Adrien Clarke is the type of player who should not be employed by any NFL team in any real capacity (maybe he could be a beer man or security guard). This was obvious to anyone with a casual understanding of football.

How did Tanny think this was gonna be a viable plan B?

Like you said "he started 4 games for the Eagles" . BTW : I like the the beer man idea.

[#27TheDominator]

no- he had all the talent in the word to be a 2nd round pick out of OSU but ended up going late because he's got twinkies where his brain should be. the fact that he was unemployed for a full year before the Jets signed him pretty much says it all.

bender at least has upside. will he reach that upside? who can say - but Clarke is just defective. this year he has been terrible, i think that's obvious to everyone.

I don't like Clarke and I always thought going with him as #1 option at LG was inexcusable, but this isn't entirely fair. I'm pretty sure that Clarke spent the year "unemployed" because he had back surgery and wasn't able to play. He's not a high enough profile guy or talented enough to warrant signing up while you wait for him to heal. I'm not surprised he's struggling, but there is reason to hope that he'll improve. I wouldn't count on it though.

Bender isn't ever going to be a bust.. Even if he never really plays in the NFL... He's a 6th round pick from a school who doesn't even play with the big boys.... Who knows if he'll ever be an avg tackle or guard in the NFL...... He sure has a long way to go that's for sure...

The problem with the Kendall crap is they knew about the crap before the draft........ They had to know he wanted more money, they weren't going to pay him, and since he did something like this in the past, ..............anyway, the way they treated him in preseason proved they never wanted him back this season...... So why wait until a couple weeks before the season starts to trade him?

If they did it back in March or April, at least they could deal with the situation. Everybody and their brother knew Clarke and Smith were not the answer. People proclaiming they were just drank way too much kool aid. Clarke and Smith might not be terrible 2nd or 3rd stringers who play a game or two here and there, but they are not legit NFL starters.....

I just didn't get the whole handling of the Kendall situation..... Why they did it I can understand. But how they did it just speaks about an arrogant bunch who thought they'd get away with murder and laugh about it later.....> Well at 1-8 and with a worse OL than last season, I guess they should be the ones being laughed at and not the other way around.

Agreed. They knew about the Kendall crap before the draft. That's why they shopped him. That's when the whole story broke. If you don't think they could expect this to be an NFL caliber line, remember they went into last season with Norm Katnick at OG and Adrian Jones at RT.

[bitonti]

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