The Yankee lineup needs a complete overhaul

[uart]

I guess I'm tired of the guys like Abreu

Everythin that Abreu does on paper looks good.....but what type of player is he. Will he lay out for the team? No way

We need the Eric Byrnes of the world on this team....Shelly Duncan should be playing right now

Cant stand Betemit

I am entirely not sold on Shelley Duncan. Sometimes he seems like a right-handed Giambi (with a lower BA and OBP).

[JonEJet]

Seeing Giambi go the other way is refreshing

Whatever Torre had him drinking screwed him up

Girardi has faith in the guy, and he's on fire

[Bugg]

I guess I'm tired of the guys like Abreu

Everythin that Abreu does on paper looks good.....but what type of player is he. Will he lay out for the team? No way

We need the Eric Byrnes of the world on this team....Shelly Duncan should be playing right now

Cant stand Betemit

Agreed 100%. Duncan, unfortunately didn't hit this year, and just seperated his shoulder.Kinda wish they DFAed Betemit and kept Duncan in that role anyway, hoping that his poor start was simply too small a sample.

Put Gardner in CF and see what he can do for now. We know he has speed and can field, and he couldn't hit worse than Melky. And then when Matsui comes back, lets's see where we are.

[DaBrick Wall]

Exactly Matt. The pitching hasn't been the biggest problem on this team, it has been the clutch hits and the simple little plays that win baseball games. Thats what happens when you have half of the batting order just swinging for the fences 90+% of the time. Resigning ARod to the money he got was stupid and ridiculous. I hated it and this is exactly why. Sure our home run numbers would've went down, but I guarentee you we would've been better off with a guy hitting .285-300 who had clutch singles and played small ball.

Thats how the Yankees won in the late 90's / early 00's. Small ball and pitching.

Please show me a guy who provides more to a team than A-Rod. Show me a guy who hits .285-.300 and CONSIDERABLY better in the clutch than his original numbers.

[Scott Dierking]

Please show me a guy who provides more to a team than A-Rod. Show me a guy who hits .285-.300 and CONSIDERABLY better in the clutch than his original numbers.

How is A-Rod in the clutch this year?

[Lil Bit Special]

Boy... when Matt39 gets pissed, the Yankees respond!

Now lets see if they can maintain that in this huge weekend series against the embarrassed sawx.

[DaBrick Wall]

How is A-Rod in the clutch this year?

Again, you take 3 months of stats, I'll take 3+ years.

[Matt39]

The lineup is atrocious.

[Jetlag]

Again, you take 3 months of stats, I'll take 3+ years.

Last 3 postseason stats:

Games: 13

AB: 44

H: 4

BB: 8

RBI: 1

HR: 1

K: 15

SB:1

CS:1

AVG: .091

What have we learned?

Well that he has a 2:1 K/BB ratio. That he has one RBI, which came off a solo shot (typical A-Rod fashion). And the few times he got on base he went 50% on trying to advance.

Overall, that A-Rod SUCKS in the clutch.

And I'm a Yankee fan.

P.S. Can someone refresh my memory on the circumstances of that HR? It happened against the Indians last year.

[KudosForND]

Last 3 postseason stats:

Games: 13

AB: 44

H: 4

BB: 8

RBI: 1

HR: 1

K: 15

SB:1

CS:1

AVG: .091

What have we learned?

Well that he has a 2:1 K/BB ratio. That he has one RBI, which came off a solo shot (typical A-Rod fashion). And the few times he got on base he went 50% on trying to advance.

Overall, that A-Rod SUCKS in the clutch.

And I'm a Yankee fan.

P.S. Can someone refresh my memory on the circumstances of that HR? It happened against the Indians last year.

wow good job for making up stats...

he had 7 hits according to baseball-reference and that would make his avg .194

arod hasent done that good in clutch but yankees wouldnt even been in the playoffs last year if it wasnt for him. you say arod sucks but i beat u like jeter and he hit .176 last year in the playoffs and arod hit i think .270 something.

dont blame it on arod.. its a team sport, if arod does bad he team mates should pick him up.

[Sharrow]

Blow it up! Trade everyone you can at the deadline! lol

[DaBrick Wall]

Last 3 postseason stats:

Games: 13

AB: 44

H: 4

BB: 8

RBI: 1

HR: 1

K: 15

SB:1

CS:1

AVG: .091

What have we learned?

Well that he has a 2:1 K/BB ratio. That he has one RBI, which came off a solo shot (typical A-Rod fashion). And the few times he got on base he went 50% on trying to advance.

Overall, that A-Rod SUCKS in the clutch.

And I'm a Yankee fan.

P.S. Can someone refresh my memory on the circumstances of that HR? It happened against the Indians last year.

You're judging him on FORTY-FOUR AT-BATS. The last three years, A-Rod has hit over .300 with RISP, with runners on, AND in close and late situations. And this is based on 773 ABs, not your 44. Yep, A-Rod SUCKS in the clutch.

Wow, also nice sample for the stolen bases there genius. 1 SB, 1 CS. That's the way to judge a player.

Oh, and sorry unlike every other player he can't control when he hits a HR. I'm sure he just goes up there with no one on and says "I'm gonna hit a home run now."

[Jetlag]

wow good job for making up stats...

he had 7 hits according to baseball-reference and that would make his avg .194

arod hasent done that good in clutch but yankees wouldnt even been in the playoffs last year if it wasnt for him. you say arod sucks but i beat u like jeter and he hit .176 last year in the playoffs and arod hit i think .270 something.

dont blame it on arod.. its a team sport, if arod does bad he team mates should pick him up.

I was looking at Runs when I put 4, sorry. So is my point wrong because it's actually whopping .194 avg.

Jeter has shown then he can produce in the playoffs.

I'll blame A-Rod all I want. The guy gets more meaningless hits and more meaningful strikeouts than Yankee fans care to remember.

[DaBrick Wall]

I was looking at Runs when I put 4, sorry. So is my point wrong because it's actually whopping .194 avg.

Jeter has shown then he can produce in the playoffs.

I'll blame A-Rod all I want. The guy gets more meaningless hits and more meaningful strikeouts than Yankee fans care to remember.

No, Yankee fans care to remember A-Rod's "meaningless" hits more than his others. The guy gets vilified for NOTHING. How can you say he gets so many meaningless hits when I posted those stats?

I'll admit that he's sucked in the playoffs. But he's only part of the problem and I'm not about to judge a player's career on 44 ABs.

[Lil Bit Special]

No, Yankee fans care to remember A-Rod's "meaningless" hits more than his others. The guy gets vilified for NOTHING. How can you say he gets so many meaningless hits when I posted those stats?

I'll admit that he's sucked in the playoffs. But he's only part of the problem and I'm not about to judge a player's career on 44 ABs.

can we judge him when he grounds out weakly in the bottom of the 7th with the bases loaded and the team needing a big hit?

can we judge him when he is hitting .226 with RISP and 2 outs?

ARod really needs to start producing in key situations. and do it consistently.

[DaBrick Wall]

can we judge him when he grounds out weakly in the bottom of the 7th with the bases loaded and the team needing a big hit?

can we judge him when he is hitting .226 with RISP and 2 outs?

ARod really needs to start producing in key situations. and do it consistently.

I agree. But he has done so the last 3 years. I'm not going to judge him on a half of season when he has shown he can consistently produce in clutch situations over THREE YEARS.

[JetsMan57]

I guess I'm tired of the guys like Abreu

Everythin that Abreu does on paper looks good.....but what type of player is he. Will he lay out for the team? No way

We need the Eric Byrnes of the world on this team....Shelly Duncan should be playing right now

Cant stand Betemit

Now you know why Philly fans hated Abreu despite the good numbers he put up during his stay there. If you're winning or losing by 7 runs Abreu will hit a 2 run double for you. In the clutch he does nothing. Defensively the guy is petrified of the wall. He is a classic fantasy player. The Stepon Marbury/Chris Webber of baseball

[DaBrick Wall]

Now you know why Philly fans hated Abreu despite the good numbers he put up during his stay there. If you're winning or losing by 7 runs Abreu will hit a 2 run double for you. In the clutch he does nothing. Defensively the guy is petrified of the wall. He is a classic fantasy player. The Stepon Marbury/Chris Webber of baseball

LOL. Batting .300 this year w/RISP and a ridiculous .457 w/RISP and 2 outs. NTM .419 in close and late situations. Honestly, did you think before writing that? Picking on about the ONLY GUY who's actually hitting w/RISP?

[JetsMan57]

LOL. Batting .300 this year w/RISP and a ridiculous .457 w/RISP and 2 outs. NTM .419 in close and late situations. Honestly, did you think before writing that? Picking on about the ONLY GUY who's actually hitting w/RISP?

Like I said. He is a classic fantasy player. Thanks for proving that. Keep looking at the stat book. Ill keep watching the games. Stats can tell you anything they want to. Are those "close game situations" when Abreu is leading off an inning? Are there anybody on base? Are there 2 outs inteh bottom of the 8th with men on and the Yanks losing?

Bottom line is If I need a big hit Abreu is one of the last guys I want up at the plate.

THere is a reason why Philly fans never liked this guy. He is a chump.

[DaBrick Wall]

Keep looking at the stats. Ill keep watching the games. Obviously, the guy is hitting with men on base, DUH. He has 50+ RBIs. Those stats dont tell you the score/situation of games when he's driving inr uns. Like I said The guy is awesome in pressure free situations, but if you need a big hit, Abreu is one of the alst people in baseball I want up at the plate.

There's a reason why Philly fans never liked the guy

He's a chump.

.419 in CLOSE AND LATE situations.

How can I make this any clearer for you?

If you're trying to make the argument that your eyes are superior to stats, it's not gonna work.

[JetsMan57]

.419 in CLOSE AND LATE situations.

How can I make this any clearer for you?

If you're trying to make the argument that your eyes are superior to stats, it's not gonna work.

Like i said define close game situations. Is he leading off an inning with a single? Is he hitting a single down 2 runs with nobody on base in the bottom of the 8th. Big whoop.

The guy is a flake.

[Lil Bit Special]

I agree. But he has done so the last 3 years. I'm not going to judge him on a half of season when he has shown he can consistently produce in clutch situations over THREE YEARS.

it doesnt matter what he did last year or the last 10 years. What matters is now. I sure hope he makes it back to his previous levels...

The team needs the greatest ball player of our generation to get them out of this rut. He needs to get this team on his back and lead them. A double in the 7th inning would have been huge, yet he hit a weak groundball.

Not good enough.

[DaBrick Wall]

Like i said define close game situations. Is he leading off an inning with a single? Is he hitting a single down 2 runs with nobody on base in the bottom of the 8th. Big whoop.

The guy is a flake.

You're making the sample smaller and smaller. Pretty soon you're going to be judging him on one AB. Yeah, getting on base to start a rally isn't important.

[JetsMan57]

You're making the sample smaller and smaller. Pretty soon you're going to be judging him on one AB. Yeah, getting on base to start a rally isn't important.

Its impossible to argue with somebody who truly believes stats tell the whole story on a player.

Abreu is a flake and one of the last players Id want up in a big spot.

[DaBrick Wall]

Its impossible to argue with somebody who truly believes stats tell the whole story on a player.

Abreu is a flake and one of the last players Id want up in a big spot.

Can you make a competent argument? One that doesn't involve the word "flake" or you using your eyes as the main point. The STATS prove you WRONG.

[JetsMan57]

Can you make a competent argument? One that doesn't involve the word "flake" or you using your eyes as the main point. The STATS prove you WRONG.

Please tell me how they prove me wrong? I said I dont want Abreu up in big spots with men on. You countered with a HIGH BATTING AVERAGE in close/late situations. I asked you to define these situations. Are there men on? Is he leading off an inning? Is he driving in 2 runs with 2 outs in the 8th and the Yankees down 1? We dont know the situations. All we know is that he hits .419 in close/late game. Sorry, but leading off the 8th with a hit is important but not really clutch.

You then tell me Im making the sample smaller. Im not, just tryint to point out to you how stats can tell you anything you want them to. You're a stat nerd. Thats okay, you are obviously young and just have a lot of learning to do. By your logic Vinny TEstaverde is one of the greatest QBs of all time. Hey, he's thrown all those TD passes and has thrown for all those yards right?

I watch a lot of the Yankees and im comfortable in saying that if I need a big hit i dont want Abreu up at the plate. Damn the stats.

[DaBrick Wall]

Please tell me how they prove me wrong? I said I dont want Abreu up in big spots with men on. You countered with a HIGH BATTING AVERAGE in close/late situations. I asked you to define these situations. Are there men on? Is he leading off an inning? Is he driving in 2 runs with 2 outs in the 8th and the Yankees down 1? We dont know the situations. All we know is that he hits .419 in close/late game. Sorry, but leading off the 8th with a hit is important but not really clutch.

You then tell me Im making the sample smaller. Im not, just tryint to point out to you how stats can tell you anything you want them to. You're a stat nerd. Thats okay, you are obviously young and just have a lot of learning to do. By your logic Vinny TEstaverde is one of the greatest QBs of all time. Hey, he's thrown all those TD passes and has thrown for all those yards right?

I watch a lot of the Yankees and im comfortable in saying that if I need a big hit i dont want Abreu up at the plate. Damn the stats.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Close and late means that the teams are 3 runs apart or less in the 7th inning or later. ANY AT BAT is a clutch one. Getting on base is JUST AS IMPORTANT as driving in a run.

I'm not even close to a stat nerd compared to other people. But stats do tell the story sometimes, and eyes rarely ever tell the story, especially when you can't look past your preconceived notion of him.

[JetsMan57]

Are you ****ing kidding me? Close and late means that the teams are 3 runs apart or less in the 7th inning or later. ANY AT BAT is a clutch one. Getting on base is JUST AS IMPORTANT as driving in a run.

Buddy, I am talking about driving in runs in big spots. YOu countered with a high batting average in close/late games. Are guys on base in all these situations? Stay here with me. Thanks

[PeterNorth09]

Buddy, I am talking about driving in runs in big spots. YOu countered with a high batting average in close/late games. Are guys on base in all these situations? Stay here with me. Thanks

Driving in runs in big spots is something this line-up doesn't do.

I don't think Cashman should be fired after the Yankees miss the playoffs but he certainly deserves Hank's foot in his ass. Pass on Santana, sign Latroy "Death on the Mound" Hawkins and construct a line-up of f'n choke artists like Arod who is more concernced with nailing Madonna than getting a big hit.

I'm rooting for the Rays to win the AL East and go to the World Series just b/c I hate the Red Sox and the Yankees aren't getting the job done this year.

[DaBrick Wall]

Buddy, I am talking about driving in runs in big spots. YOu countered with a high batting average in close/late games. Are guys on base in all these situations? Stay here with me. Thanks

And I said that getting on base is just as important, or just as clutch, as driving in runs. WHo would be driven in if no one got on base?

[Zeebers]

No, Yankee fans care to remember A-Rod's "meaningless" hits more than his others. The guy gets vilified for NOTHING. How can you say he gets so many meaningless hits when I posted those stats?

I'll admit that he's sucked in the playoffs. But he's only part of the problem and I'm not about to judge a player's career on 44 ABs.

A-Rod was absolutely awesome last year. He's the best player on the Yankees and its not even close. Its amazing to me that anyone would think the Yankees are better off without him. If you are talking about a rebuilding situation like with a small market team than I might be able to buy that. However these are the Yankees and I don't think rebuilding is in their vocabulary. Perhaps retooling, and you'll probably see some of that this off-season, playoffs or no playoffs.

As much as A-rod wants to conquer New York, I think it was a mistake for him to take the money from the Yankees. He'll never do enough to please Yankee fans.

[Matt39]

A-Rod was absolutely awesome last year. He's the best player on the Yankees and its not even close. Its amazing to me that anyone would think the Yankees are better off without him. If you are talking about a rebuilding situation like with a small market team than I might be able to buy that. However these are the Yankees and I don't think rebuilding is in their vocabulary. Perhaps retooling, and you'll probably see some of that this off-season, playoffs or no playoffs.

As much as A-rod wants to conquer New York, I think it was a mistake for him to take the money from the Yankees. He'll never do enough to please Yankee fans.

If he hits in the playoffs and helps the team win a championship people will finally let up on Arod. Untill he does that, he's going to continued to be scrutinized, especially in clutch situations.

[Matt39]

thought that was a good take.

I agree. This current core needs to be broken up. You have to let Abreu and Giambi go as free agents. The housecleaning should have started a long time ago. They had a chance to start breaking up this team last year. They could have passed on Abreu's option year but chose to pick it up. They could have said no thanks to A-Rod and once Posada was looking for four years said goodby to him as well. But as usual Cashman took the easy way out and just kept the players he already had. I am really convinced that Cashman's main goal for 2008 was just to keep the team somewhat competitive. He wasn't really interested in trying that hard to have a World Series contender or even a playoff team. If it happened, it happened. He just didn't put very much effort into assembling the 2008 Yankees.

If he let Abreu, A-Rod and Posada walk after 2007, he would have had a massive job trying to come up with any kind of replacements. He hasn't shown very much intelligence or creativity in the past in making trades or signing free agents. He also has been almost a complete failure in regards to evaluating talent. When you lose a player you don't necessarily have to replace him with the same kind of player or a player even as good. Baseball is a team sport. You need players able and/or willing to work well as a unit. The Yankees really haven't played as a team for a good number of years. They depended on the individual talents of the players. Now that the individual talents of this group have at least begun to erode, it is showing up more and more. Over the last several years it didn't really show up that much until the post season when the quality of pitching is so much better. The Yankees were able to feast on the many bad or mediocre pitchers sitting on major league rosters. Now they can't seem to hit the majority of the pitchers in baseball whether they are good or bad. Even factoring in the injuries, this offense has taken a serious decline from just even last season.

If Cashman had any guts at all, he would have let Abreu, A-Rod and Posada walk last season. But if he did that, the team would have been completely uncompetitive this season because I don't think he would have even been able to even get major league caliber players to replace them. It is just so frustrating to watch this team right now. You look at the Oaklands and Minnesotas and even Baltimore to some degree. They lose star players to free agency or trades and remain very competitive. Oakland loses players left and right and stays competitive. Minnesota trades Santana because they can't pay him and they are much better now than they were last season. Baltimore trades Tejada to Houston and they are much better than last year. Florida trades Miguel Cabrera and they are much better than last year. Just because you lose a star player or players doesn't necessarily make you a poorer team. There is no exact formula for a successful team. Of course you need good pitching. That is a given. As far as offense is concerned, you need an identity. You either can depend on power or be a speed team that manufactures runs or a team that has a lot of players with high on base percentages or better yet a mixture of the three. The Yankees right now are none of the above. Despite the Yankees financial resources, Cashman seems incapable of putting together a team that will function well as a unit and have a team with every player on it having a defined role. The Yankee teams of the past several years in particular have always had players on it that serve no real purpose.

[DaBrick Wall]

thought that was a good take.

Yeah OK, let Abreu, A-Rod, and Posada walk, and replace them with "clutch" players who "have a defined role." Do you actually believe this crap?

[Matt39]

Yeah OK, let Abreu, A-Rod, and Posada walk, and replace them with "clutch" players who "have a defined role." Do you actually believe this crap?

The Yankees will never win with this current group of players. Team is a concept you'll never grasp, Mike.