My second apology plus other tidbits

[lancemehl]

I've already apologized before the first game about my "F U Brett" post. I was one of the few Chad fans. I was upset that they just released him, I still think he's a class act and was a true jet. I was also called everything from homo to douchebag, THAT POST deserved it.

HOWEVER, please allow a lifelong jet fan who spoke without thinking clearly to get on the bandwagon!

I LOVE watching Favre throw the ball!! and as a bonus we have another Brett which gives us a decade + of solid QB play!! lol I hope someone doesn't grab that guy from us.

We went from Chad/Clemens to Favre/Ratliff, what a way to ice what has already been a masterful offseason.

Switching to defense, are you seeing how we are stuffing the run, collapsing the pocket, a complete 180 from that garbage we put on the field last year.

I love this team, I love Favre. He and Cothery are going to do great things. Coles is Coles, Brad Smith has made some awesome plays. Dustin Keller is being praised by Favre, and Bubba told all the tight ends "Keep your hands up", u never know when it's coming.

Also Stucky has played into the slot role probably and clowney is making noise.

A combo of moving back to NY where i actually get coverage of the team, and getting over my love affair with Chad( I hate that he's a fin, but only because he's going to be mauled in game 1) LOL has made me see this team for what it is:

A legitimate superbowl contender!

The question marks are:

1. Health, of course

2. Communication on the field and coaching.

3. Nugent and special teams

Other than that we are as good as anybody, on both sides of the football.

Move over, the douchebag is jumping on!! LOL

[Jade Green]

Can we win a few regular season games before you go declairing us Superbowl contenders?

Yes we look good so far in the PRE-SEASON and the PRE-SEASON means nothing.

I like your enthusiasm but man you are going from one extreme to another and we have not even played one game that counts yet, please don't act like a dolfag fan.

Perhaps if you paced yourself you would not have to start an appology thread every week, I think some flip flop has rubbed off on you living in south florida.

[SeniorFlaJet]

Lance my boy, I knew you for years on other boards that you always shot from the hip.

I figured that thread on Brett was going to cause you grief. LOL

[Green DNA]

A second apology thread??? Boy, joewilly is going to be pissed, that is his domain.

[SoFlaJets]

forget about it Lance-no one ever has to doubt your loyalty to this team. That being said, I am frigging STOKED about this team. This is the best Jets team we've seen since '98 and '82 before that-we are deep and I don't see any weak units on this squad right now...

This is a Super Bowl caliber team-world CHAMPIONSHIP caliber Jets team

[drago]

forget about it Lance-no one ever has to doubt your loyalty to this team. That being said, I am frigging STOKED about this team. This is the best Jets team we've seen since '98 and '82 before that-we are deep and I don't see any weak units on this squad right now...

This is a Super Bowl caliber team-world CHAMPIONSHIP caliber Jets team

two weak units that i'm concerened with...CB and Dline. Both have reasonable players but both also lack any kind of depth. On paper, the rest look very nice.

I can't wait for week one.

[SoFlaJets]

two weak units that i'm concerened with...CB and Dline. Both have reasonable players but both also lack any kind of depth. On paper, the rest look very nice.

I can't wait for week one.

I'm juiced about our CB position-Revis, Lowery, Poteat and Drew Coleman have been playing tough add in Barrett being able to play CB and safety now and maybe Carroll

[Boozer76]

I can understand the loyalty to Chad based on his personality and work ethic. But when it comes to the product on the field post 2002, there's really nothing to have been excited about. I think, speaking realistically, Brett Favre brings us about 8 more passing TD's, 500+ more passing yards, the same amount of accuracy, 2-3 times more 15 yard + completions, and most importantly defensive respect to open the running game up. With that will come a few "oh my god why did you throw that pass Brett!!" occasions as well. I won't really say whether or not Brett will throw more INT's since Chad's INT's have been substantially increasing over the past couple seasons. But all in all, Brett is an enormous upgrade over Chad any way you slice it.

What I expect on the negative side is a few mental errors early in the season, just as we saw against the Giants. Brett is just learning the playbook, especially the pre snap motion calls. He snapped the ball on a couple occasions before the motion man was set, resulting in penalties. I think this will continue to an extent. But I also think that we won't be motioning nearly as often as with Chad. Think about this: With Chad, we motioned a ton to see exactly what every defender was doing so Chad can spot the short soft spots in the D. This is how he knew where to hit his underneath guys. Motion exposes whether the D is playing man or zone coverage, and to an extent where the soft spots in the zones will be. GB never ran as much motion because Brett has the ability to expose mismatches on the fly with his arm strength. In other words, Chad's O was reactionary-taking what the D gave him. Brett's O will be proactive, forcing the action and forcing the D to react to him. This results in more big plays, but there will be some costly picks at times when Brett tries to force too much.

[slats]

two weak units that i'm concerened with...CB and Dline. Both have reasonable players but both also lack any kind of depth. On paper, the rest look very nice.

The OL is still a concern, too. I'm still not seeing any real push in the running game, and the team has next to no depth at all there.

I'm juiced about our CB position-Revis, Lowery, Poteat and Drew Coleman have been playing tough add in Barrett being able to play CB and safety now and maybe Carroll

Miller was the default man to start opposite Revis, but now he's hurt... ? I'm hoping the Jets can stuff the run well enough that opponents are forced into passing downs - and then the pass rush can control the tempo of the passing game. I'm really hoping Lowery can stabilize the #2 spot. Poteat might be savvy enough to handle the nickel duties. It's not a group that I have a lot of confidence in after Revis.

Carroll's made some plays on specials. He'd be a nice story if he managed to make the team.

[Scott Dierking]

I can understand the loyalty to Chad based on his personality and work ethic. But when it comes to the product on the field post 2002, there's really nothing to have been excited about. I think, speaking realistically, Brett Favre brings us about 8 more passing TD's, 500+ more passing yards, the same amount of accuracy, 2-3 times more 15 yard + completions, and most importantly defensive respect to open the running game up. With that will come a few "oh my god why did you throw that pass Brett!!" occasions as well. I won't really say whether or not Brett will throw more INT's since Chad's INT's have been substantially increasing over the past couple seasons. But all in all, Brett is an enormous upgrade over Chad any way you slice it.

What I expect on the negative side is a few mental errors early in the season, just as we saw against the Giants. Brett is just learning the playbook, especially the pre snap motion calls. He snapped the ball on a couple occasions before the motion man was set, resulting in penalties. I think this will continue to an extent. But I also think that we won't be motioning nearly as often as with Chad. Think about this: With Chad, we motioned a ton to see exactly what every defender was doing so Chad can spot the short soft spots in the D. This is how he knew where to hit his underneath guys. Motion exposes whether the D is playing man or zone coverage, and to an extent where the soft spots in the zones will be. GB never ran as much motion because Brett has the ability to expose mismatches on the fly with his arm strength. In other words, Chad's O was reactionary-taking what the D gave him. Brett's O will be proactive, forcing the action and forcing the D to react to him. This results in more big plays, but there will be some costly picks at times when Brett tries to force too much.

Booze, with all due respect, I think you are confusing "Schott's" offense and calling it "Chad's" offense.

Exactly what is a proactive offense? One that moves the ball?

Motion does much more (as you aptly indicated) than allow a dink and dunk offense to work. In fact, I would say it may be MORE valuable to a Favre type QB, as he often used his own pre-snap reads. The motion will at least allow him to re-affirm his reads better.

Chad was EXCELLENT in exposing mismatches, maybe one of the best in the NFL. Unfortunately, his physical abilities gave him less of an opportunity to exploit those.

We can only pray that Favre begins to understand defenses at the line that in the way Chad did.

Is Favre an upgrade? Undeniably.

Is he a lock to fit into this system? Unfortunately not. Does he deserve the chance to iron out the kinks? Well, not in my book. This was part of becoming unretired and the want to play so badly.

When you sign on for 1 year (maybe 2) at big bucks, the need to be perfect fast is critical.

[Boozer76]

Booze, with all due respect, I think you are confusing "Schott's" offense and calling it "Chad's" offense.

Nonsense. We have had coordinator after coordinator get railed for being too conservative and too cute. Heimerdinger was an extremely aggressive OC prior to coming here. Then he gets stuck with the "too conservative" label after a year here. This has undeniably been "Chad's" offense since he could not run a true full playbook NFL offense with his pop gun of an arm.

Exactly what is a proactive offense? One that moves the ball?

A proactive offense is one that sets the tempo and makes the D react to it, not the other way around. How many times do we hear that Chad "takes what the D gives him".

Chad was EXCELLENT in exposing mismatches, maybe one of the best in the NFL. Unfortunately, his physical abilities gave him less of an opportunity to exploit those.

We can only pray that Favre begins to understand defenses at the line that in the way Chad did.

You're praying that a HOF QB that will likely go down as maybe a top 10 of all time could read D's as well as a guy who will likely never be talked about again once he retires? Taking the underneath stuff that a Tampa style bend don't break D (which most teams employ these days) gives up to avoid giving up big plays is hardly being the best in the league at reading D's.

[Scott Dierking]

Nonsense. We have had coordinator after coordinator get railed for being too conservative and too cute. Heimerdinger was an extremely aggressive OC prior to coming here. Then he gets stuck with the "too conservative" label after a year here. This has undeniably been "Chad's" offense since he could not run a true full playbook NFL offense with his pop gun of an arm.

A proactive offense is one that sets the tempo and makes the D react to it, not the other way around. How many times do we hear that Chad "takes what the D gives him".

You're praying that a HOF QB that will likely go down as maybe a top 10 of all time could read D's as well as a guy who will likely never be talked about again once he retires? Taking the underneath stuff that a Tampa style bend don't break D (which most teams employ these days) gives up to avoid giving up big plays is hardly being the best in the league at reading D's.

So Booze, you are telling me it is impossible for a quarterback who is less gifted athletically to be able to read defenses better than a more physically gifted QB?

That is the case between Favre and Chad.

And my concerns have always been whether Favre could "fit in" to this offense, without it having to be "dumbed down".

Now I didn't get a chance to see the game on Saturday, but if what I am hearing related to pre-snap penalties and timing issues, the concerns are well founded.

And offenses that "force issues" are the usually theh offeses that are desperate. I PRAY we do not become that, and Favre thinks in that mode. That would be instant doom.

What we do have is a better equipped QB to take advantage of the exposed mismatches, and truly take what the defense gives. As well a defense won't be able to "cheat" THAT is the best scenario. And one the Jets have been ill equipped to perform in teh recent past. That is not "proactivity".

[serphnx]

So Booze, you are telling me it is impossible for a quarterback who is less gifted athletically to be able to read defenses better than a more physically gifted QB?

That is the case between Favre and Chad.

And my concerns have always been whether Favre could "fit in" to this offense, without it having to be "dumbed down".

Now I didn't get a chance to see the game on Saturday, but if what I am hearing related to pre-snap penalties and timing issues, the concerns are well founded.

And offenses that "force issues" are the usually theh offeses that are desperate. I PRAY we do not become that, and Favre thinks in that mode. That would be instant doom.

What we do have is a better equipped QB to take advantage of the exposed mismatches, and truly take what the defense gives. As well a defense won't be able to "cheat" THAT is the best scenario. And one the Jets have been ill equipped to perform in teh recent past. That is not "proactivity".

You don't throw the most TDs in NFL history by not being able to read a defense. If it was purely physical gifts, guys like Ryan Leaf would have dominated the league from their first snap. Vinny has a big arm and it took him years to be a good QB.

Guys like Peyton and Brady are much better than Chad at exposing mismatches, changing plays, and basically every part of running an offense. Just because they are more athletically gifted does not negate that fact. Favre is also in that class. Chad is definitely above average, but he is not an elite, physical gifts or not. You can give Chad the same physical gifts that Donovan McNabb has, but McNabb will still outperform him because he's just a better QB in every aspect.

[Boozer76]

You don't throw the most TDs in NFL history by not being able to read a defense. If it was purely physical gifts, guys like Ryan Leaf would have dominated the league from their first snap. Vinny has a big arm and it took him years to be a good QB.

Guys like Peyton and Brady are much better than Chad at exposing mismatches, changing plays, and basically every part of running an offense. Just because they are more athletically gifted does not negate that fact. Favre is also in that class. Chad is definitely above average, but he is not an elite, physical gifts or not. You can give Chad the same physical gifts that Donovan McNabb has, but McNabb will still outperform him because he's just a better QB in every aspect.

Thank you. You saved me alot of typing in my response to Scott. Christ, you'd think Chad was confucious of the QB position. Brett's thrown for the most TD's in the ghistory of the NFL and Scott wants me to believe that somehow our offense will be dumbed down from the great wisdom of Chad for him. Please.

[Jetscode1]

Booze, with all due respect, I think you are confusing "Schott's" offense and calling it "Chad's" offense.

Exactly what is a proactive offense? One that moves the ball?

Motion does much more (as you aptly indicated) than allow a dink and dunk offense to work. In fact, I would say it may be MORE valuable to a Favre type QB, as he often used his own pre-snap reads. The motion will at least allow him to re-affirm his reads better.

Chad was EXCELLENT in exposing mismatches, maybe one of the best in the NFL. Unfortunately, his physical abilities gave him less of an opportunity to exploit those.

We can only pray that Favre begins to understand defenses at the line that in the way Chad did.

Is Favre an upgrade? Undeniably.

Is he a lock to fit into this system? Unfortunately not. Does he deserve the chance to iron out the kinks? Well, not in my book. This was part of becoming unretired and the want to play so badly.

When you sign on for 1 year (maybe 2) at big bucks, the need to be perfect fast is critical.

Favre is a huge upgrade over Chad. Agree with your point that Favre may play inconsistently while he grasps all the motion in Schotty's offense. He is probably in for the biggest challenge of his career. Not only because of the offense (it could have been any team he was traded to) but because he will need to rely less on his arm and athleticism and use his brain and leadership to move the team. There is a risk he will not adapt but I think he deserves the chance. Chad was a warrior but an athletically limited warrior who had to use his brain to maximize his play. Chad may have exposed a weakness but could not execute all the options. With Brett the field and playbook is wide open. The upside is Brett may develop into a more rounded QB similar to how John Elway matured later in his career. We'll have to hope he plays for more than one year but I know I'm more excited this year with him under center than I would have been with Chad.

[Scott Dierking]

You don't throw the most TDs in NFL history by not being able to read a defense. If it was purely physical gifts, guys like Ryan Leaf would have dominated the league from their first snap. Vinny has a big arm and it took him years to be a good QB.

Guys like Peyton and Brady are much better than Chad at exposing mismatches, changing plays, and basically every part of running an offense. Just because they are more athletically gifted does not negate that fact. Favre is also in that class. Chad is definitely above average, but he is not an elite, physical gifts or not. You can give Chad the same physical gifts that Donovan McNabb has, but McNabb will still outperform him because he's just a better QB in every aspect.

I never said that Favre could not read defenses, just that he was not as well as Chad. This is opinion of course, so neither of us can be proven as correct or incorrect.

Why you want to introduce Payton and Brady into the equaion, I don't know, as that was not the premise.

TOTALLY disagree on the McNabb premise, but again that is opinion.

Listen, I think the Jets are much better at the QB position today than they were 4 weeks ago. Whether that makes them a playoff contender, i am unsure. And if it does not, the Jets have rented a QB purely at circus value, rather than the betterment of teh club for teh near term future. I hope that is not the case.

But I am always amused at the love of teh gunslinger mentality. Chcks love the long ball

[Scott Dierking]

Favre is a huge upgrade over Chad. Agree with your point that Favre may play inconsistently while he grasps all the motion in Schotty's offense. He is probably in for the biggest challenge of his career. Not only because of the offense (it could have been any team he was traded to) but because he will need to rely less on his arm and athleticism and use his brain and leadership to move the team. There is a risk he will not adapt but I think he deserves the chance. Chad was a warrior but an athletically limited warrior who had to use his brain to maximize his play. Chad may have exposed a weakness but could not execute all the options. With Brett the field and playbook is wide open. The upside is Brett may develop into a more rounded QB similar to how John Elway matured later in his career. We'll have to hope he plays for more than one year but I know I'm more excited this year with him under center than I would have been with Chad.

Agreed. I hope Favre is in this more than just personal glory and finance.

[Garb]

You don't throw the most TDs in NFL history by not being able to read a defense. If it was purely physical gifts, guys like Ryan Leaf would have dominated the league from their first snap. Vinny has a big arm and it took him years to be a good QB.

Guys like Peyton and Brady are much better than Chad at exposing mismatches, changing plays, and basically every part of running an offense. Just because they are more athletically gifted does not negate that fact. Favre is also in that class. Chad is definitely above average, but he is not an elite, physical gifts or not. You can give Chad the same physical gifts that Donovan McNabb has, but McNabb will still outperform him because he's just a better QB in every aspect.

...he has also thrown the most interceptions in NFL history....just sayin'.

[lancemehl]

Lance my boy, I knew you for years on other boards that you always shot from the hip.

I figured that thread on Brett was going to cause you grief. LOL

LOL, if i'm not mistaken, we go back to the days i was b---hin' about letting Keyshawn go!

Believe me I wish I was as smart as the rest of the posters, but I guess that's why ESPN hasn't called me yet!

Every board needs a douchebag!

[lancemehl]

two weak units that i'm concerened with...CB and Dline. Both have reasonable players but both also lack any kind of depth. On paper, the rest look very nice.

I can't wait for week one.

I respectfully disagree, I think we are VERY deep at CB, in fact, because of it, we probably have to let Poteat go, since Barrett restructured and I thought he played great since coming here.

We have Revis. On the other side is Miller, Lowery, Barrett, Drew Coleman, poteat, i think we are deep.

And the D-line played GREAT without Ellis. Maybe not as deep but Jenkins was a GREAT pick up.

BTW, I can't wait either.

[SoFlaJets]

Nonsense. We have had coordinator after coordinator get railed for being too conservative and too cute. Heimerdinger was an extremely aggressive OC prior to coming here. Then he gets stuck with the "too conservative" label after a year here. This has undeniably been "Chad's" offense since he could not run a true full playbook NFL offense with his pop gun of an arm.

anybody wonder why our offense now looks NOTHING like what we were forced to run with Chad at QB? It went all the way down the line too, not only were they "Chad plays" but they were also Clemens plays and whoever our 3rd stringer was at the time. The Jets are actually THROWING the friggin ball downfield and not just doing the dink and dunk which we had become with a weak-armed QB at the top...the Jets with Favre have become a better passing team overnight, again, from the top down-Clemens and ratliff look better under this style of offense

[jack48]

I can understand the loyalty to Chad based on his personality and work ethic. But when it comes to the product on the field post 2002, there's really nothing to have been excited about. I think, speaking realistically, Brett Favre brings us about 8 more passing TD's, 500+ more passing yards, the same amount of accuracy, 2-3 times more 15 yard + completions, and most importantly defensive respect to open the running game up. With that will come a few "oh my god why did you throw that pass Brett!!" occasions as well. I won't really say whether or not Brett will throw more INT's since Chad's INT's have been substantially increasing over the past couple seasons. But all in all, Brett is an enormous upgrade over Chad any way you slice it.

What I expect on the negative side is a few mental errors early in the season, just as we saw against the Giants. Brett is just learning the playbook, especially the pre snap motion calls. He snapped the ball on a couple occasions before the motion man was set, resulting in penalties. I think this will continue to an extent. But I also think that we won't be motioning nearly as often as with Chad. Think about this: With Chad, we motioned a ton to see exactly what every defender was doing so Chad can spot the short soft spots in the D. This is how he knew where to hit his underneath guys. Motion exposes whether the D is playing man or zone coverage, and to an extent where the soft spots in the zones will be. GB never ran as much motion because Brett has the ability to expose mismatches on the fly with his arm strength. In other words, Chad's O was reactionary-taking what the D gave him. Brett's O will be proactive, forcing the action and forcing the D to react to him. This results in more big plays, but there will be some costly picks at times when Brett tries to force too much.

But 2nd and 15 will no longer be the kiss of death for this offense.....

[SoFlaJets]

But 2nd and 15 will no longer be the kiss of death for this offense.....

I was SO not looking forward to that kind of football again this year Jack....I'm glad Chad is gone

[serphnx]

I remember doing the averages before, and it came out to something like 28 TD 15 INT a year for Favre. Chad's been averaging pretty much half the TDs and the same number of INTs, if not more, these past few years. Also since Favre will loosen up the field, especially at goal line, I believe it'll lead to more rushing TDs than whatever our paltry total was last year.

Favre has 2 really bad years with a really ****ty team, and suddenly everybody thinks that he throws a lot of INTs. The guy has been playing every game for pretty much 17 years straight, of course he will have INTs. I posted a lot of most TDs and most INTs too, the INT list has a lot of great QBs. The TD list has great QBs too, but iirc only Marino is within 100 TDs, whereas pretty much everyone was within 50 INTs of Favre. That's a huge discrepancy.

[SoFlaJets]

I remember doing the averages before, and it came out to something like 28 TD 15 INT a year for Favre. Chad's been averaging pretty much half the TDs and the same number of INTs, if not more, these past few years. Also since Favre will loosen up the field, especially at goal line, I believe it'll lead to more rushing TDs than whatever our paltry total was last year.

Favre has 2 really bad years with a really ****ty team, and suddenly everybody thinks that he throws a lot of INTs. The guy has been playing every game for pretty much 17 years straight, of course he will have INTs. I posted a lot of most TDs and most INTs too, the INT list has a lot of great QBs. The TD list has great QBs too, but iirc only Marino is within 100 TDs, whereas pretty much everyone was within 50 INTs of Favre. That's a huge discrepancy.

look serphnx-I can LIVE with a ballsy thrown INT much better than I can watching Chad get pick sixed on a 6 yard out route

[jack48]

look serphnx-I can LIVE with a ballsy thrown INT much better than I can watching Chad get pick sixed on a 6 yard out route

First let me say that I am not a worshipper. I do not put players on a pedestal. And I know this is a blog and it is fun to debate, but doesn't it seem ludicrous to be sitting here comparing Chad Pennington to Brett Favre? I mean, it goes without saying, doesn't it?

[Green DNA]

It will just be nice to have a chance when we are down by two scores in the 4th quarter. We have big strike capability rather than needing to run 15 plays in the hurry up mode.

[serphnx]

McNabb has to be the most underrated QB in the NFL. They pass something like 75% of the time because McNabb is one of the few QBs good enough to be able to do that. He has this amazing mix of intelligence and athletic ability. I love watching him play while healthy. ACL injuries take a year to recover from, so last year isn't really too surprising. This year, he is going to light it up. The Eagles are going to come out of the NFC, or at least be the team to beat. NFCE is the division to watch this year, it's just great from top to bottom. The Redskins will likely be the only team in that division not to make the playoffs.

[Irish Jet]

McNabb has to be the most underrated QB in the NFL. They pass something like 75% of the time because McNabb is one of the few QBs good enough to be able to do that. He has this amazing mix of intelligence and athletic ability. I love watching him play while healthy. ACL injuries take a year to recover from, so last year isn't really too surprising. This year, he is going to light it up. The Eagles are going to come out of the NFC, or at least be the team to beat. NFCE is the division to watch this year, it's just great from top to bottom. The Redskins will likely be the only team in that division not to make the playoffs.

McNabb was great when his knees were 100%, if he can get back to his old form then I like the Eagles to win that divison. He also has a QB's best friend - Brian Westbrook.

[jack48]

It will just be nice to have a chance when we are down by two scores in the 4th quarter. We have big strike capability rather than needing to run 15 plays in the hurry up mode.

Exactly