One thing about coaches with rings....

[lancemehl]

You know they can coach!!!! You KNOW, without a doubt, and yes, I include Barry Switzer, although the machine was pretty much on auto by then, thay they can evaluate their talent chop down to the best 53 guys, get those guys on the same page, condition them properly.

Motivate them, make them WANT to win, pick the right coordinators, work with million dollar prma donna's at almost every position and make them work.

Then watch film EVERY week and build the proper game plan against such a team, AND,the big one, MAKE ADJUSTMENTS when plan a flops. Every week they get their best 22 and go against another Professional group of guys and WIN! They manage the clock, the TO's, the 2-PC's, the challenges.

They keep the promma donnas happy, they keep them motivated.

They work on what wrong and fix it!. They demand respect.

And ANY ANY coach that can do that ALL the way to the big show is called PROVEN.

We are about to hire our fourth unproven in a row,NOW, Irish Jet, are you asking me if it's REx or shotty jr, please.....shotty should be in college.

But the last three COULDN't do many of those things because they never have!!!!

Go 4 back and we hired a PROVEN SB WINNER and went from 1-15 to 9-7 to 12-4 afc championship in 2 years.

Why no Gruden? Why didn't we make shannahan or cowher "offers they couldn't refuse."

FINE, BRING ON REX!!!!! maybe 4's a charm!

[aec4]

<sarcasm>Because Rex Ryan, who didn't get the job in the town where he was DC is the GUY!!</sarcasm>

If you don't at least request an interview with Gruden then you aren't doing everything you can to get the best coach possible. I'm not saying he's the guy. I'm saying you have to at least talk to him!

[Irish Jet]

Judging by history, you also know they're not winning another one anywhere else.

If the great coaches with rings are so great, then why are there none left in the playoffs?

How come everyone of the current HC's laying for the SB was an unproven coach at the time he was hired, just like....Rex Ryan!

But yeah, clearly the retreads are the way to go.

[JETfrmWOMBtoTOMB]

Judging by history, you also know they're not winning another one anywhere else.

If the great coaches with rings are so great, then why are there none left in the playoffs?

How come everyone of the current HC's laying for the SB was an unproven coach at the time he was hired, just like....Rex Ryan!

But yeah, clearly the retreads are the way to go.

IrishJet, again, you are right on my friend.

[DMaynard]

You know they can coach!!!! You KNOW, without a doubt, and yes, I include Barry Switzer, although the machine was pretty much on auto by then, thay they can evaluate their talent chop down to the best 53 guys, get those guys on the same page, condition them properly.

Motivate them, make them WANT to win, pick the right coordinators, work with million dollar prma donna's at almost every position and make them work.

Then watch film EVERY week and build the proper game plan against such a team, AND,the big one, MAKE ADJUSTMENTS when plan a flops. Every week they get their best 22 and go against another Professional group of guys and WIN! They manage the clock, the TO's, the 2-PC's, the challenges.

They keep the promma donnas happy, they keep them motivated.

They work on what wrong and fix it!. They demand respect.

And ANY ANY coach that can do that ALL the way to the big show is called PROVEN.

We are about to hire our fourth unproven in a row,NOW, Irish Jet, are you asking me if it's REx or shotty jr, please.....shotty should be in college.

But the last three COULDN't do many of those things because they never have!!!!

Go 4 back and we hired a PROVEN SB WINNER and went from 1-15 to 9-7 to 12-4 afc championship in 2 years.

Why no Gruden? Why didn't we make shannahan or cowher "offers they couldn't refuse."

FINE, BRING ON REX!!!!! maybe 4's a charm!

No, 1 is a charm. This is the first time this decade the jets are hiring the right kind of guy. A young dynamic coordinator who knows Xs and Os. They are the types that become great HCs. Groh was a LB coach who was standing around when Belichick ran away. Herm was Dungy's coffee gofer who benefited from a new owner's desire to help with the league's affirmative action. Mangini was Belichick's coffee gofer who benefited from an owner who was jealous of the Patriots. Our owner has finally learned his lessons and is about to do the right thing.

[lancemehl]

<sarcasm>Because Rex Ryan, who didn't get the job in the town where he was DC is the GUY!!</sarcasm>

If you don't at least request an interview with Gruden then you aren't doing everything you can to get the best coach possible. I'm not saying he's the guy. I'm saying you have to at least talk to him!

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lancemehl]

How come everyone of the current HC's laying for the SB was an unproven coach at the time he was hired, just like....Rex Ryan!

.

Gruden was hired after coming a c%$t hair away from going with Oakland, he was a hot commodity, then went to a Bucs team and took them to the promised land. I'm sorry you were sayin.

[lancemehl]

No, 1 is a charm. This is the first time this decade the jets are hiring the right kind of guy. A young dynamic coordinator who knows Xs and Os. They are the types that become great HCs. Groh was a LB coach who was standing around when Belichick ran away. Herm was Dungy's coffee gofer who benefited from a new owner's desire to help with the league's affirmative action. Mangini was Belichick's coffee gofer who benefited from an owner who was jealous of the Patriots. Our owner has finally learned his lessons and is about to do the right thing.

hope your right, brother, but can you agree that NOT even talking to Gruden is NOT doing due dilligance and subsequently letting the fan base down.

but who cares about the fans, anyway, right LOL

[DMaynard]

hope your right, brother, but can you agree that NOT even talking to Gruden is NOT doing due dilligance and subsequently letting the fan base down.

but who cares about the fans, anyway, right LOL

I am always right.

But seriously, F Gruden. His team's collapse was even worse than the Jets. He was fired for good reasons. Look at his recent years at TB. He is done. He is in ESPN or NFL Network mode.

[lancemehl]

Judging by history, you also know they're not winning another one anywhere else.

.

Gruden was right there with one team then won with another.

Parcells won 2 with Giants, WENT to one with Patriots and went to AFC championship with a team that was 1-15 2 years prior.

Vermeil went with the Eagles and won with Rams.

Shula was their with Colts and won with Fins before going back with them twice.

These are off the top off my head, it's not like coaches who win rings go in hiding and suc after, that shows how hard winning one is.

Cowher was Always right there.

let's go to Basket ball:

Pat Riley

Phil Jackson

Oh does that not count...

[Irish Jet]

Gruden was right there with one team then won with another.

Parcells won 2 with Giants, WENT to one with Patriots and went to AFC championship with a team that was 1-15 2 years prior.

Vermeil went with the Eagles and won with Rams.

Shula was their with Colts and won with Fins before going back with them twice.

These are off the top off my head, it's not like coaches who win rings go in hiding and suc after, that shows how hard winning one is.

Cowher was Always right there.

let's go to Basket ball:

Pat Riley

Phil Jackson

Oh does that not count...

LOL, basketball.

You're aware all of those examples did nothing but prove me right?

[lancemehl]

I am always right.

But seriously, F Gruden. His team's collapse was even worse than the Jets. He was fired for good reasons. Look at his recent years at TB. He is done. He is in ESPN or NFL Network mode.

But we know he CAN coach. Example, I am pretty good at my job, but I've been with places where the management above and around me were pissin me off, my work slacked, it was time to go, I was half aSSin it, then went somewhere else and, BAM!

At least talk to him, he KNOWS how to coach a team to the superbowl.

Forget it, I'm with you Maynard, I'd like to see what you said when Mangini and Herm were hired but I'll go on blind faith, bro. You seem to know your -ish LOL

[Irish Jet]

Gruden was hired after coming a c%$t hair away from going with Oakland, he was a hot commodity, then went to a Bucs team and took them to the promised land. I'm sorry you were sayin.

This, although true, has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying.

Lets speak more recently about Gruden. What has he done since the SB that would appeal to you? One and done twice and he's sucked balls the rest of the time. Then tops it off with a collapse that would make Eric Mangini proud. He lost his team, they turned against him, as did the fans. I'm personally glad he's staying away from here.

[lancemehl]

LOL, basketball.

You're aware all of those examples did nothing but prove me right?

Was hiring Parcells a mistake? I know you weren't a fan of american football then you you've studied up, obviously, when we were up 10-0 about to go to the SB, were we thinking, "why did we go with this retread?"

How about Pats fans, who , if not for Larry Brown, would've had their ring a little earlier than Bellichek, bad move?

LOL

So, you are honestly saying that once you win a SB you are cursed and may never win again, so people should've bet heavily on Dallas vs. Pats that year because there was NO WAY parcells could've won. How much did you win that year, with your insider knowledge.

No way, he could have won that would go against your LAW. Damn I wish I knew you then, oh well, next time.

[124]

Judging by history, you also know they're not winning another one anywhere else.

If the great coaches with rings are so great, then why are there none left in the playoffs?

How come everyone of the current HC's laying for the SB was an unproven coach at the time he was hired, just like....Rex Ryan!

But yeah, clearly the retreads are the way to go.

So because it works one offseason its going to work forever?

Right.

[Irish Jet]

Was hiring Parcells a mistake? I know you weren't a fan of american football then you you've studied up, obviously, when we were up 10-0 about to go to the SB, were we thinking, "why did we go with this retread?"

How about Pats fans, who , if not for Larry Brown, would've had their ring a little earlier than Bellichek, bad move?

LOL

So, you are honestly saying that once you win a SB you are cursed and may never win again, so people should've bet heavily on Dallas vs. Pats that year because there was NO WAY parcells could've won. How much did you win that year, with your insider knowledge.

No way, he could have won that would go against your LAW. Damn I wish I knew you then, oh well, next time.

LOL, I was just pointing out that it hasn't happened. Nowhere did I say it couldn't happen.

My honest opinion is that I simply don't rate Gruden too highly as a HC. Never have.

[lancemehl]

LOL, I was just pointing out that it hasn't happened. Nowhere did I say it couldn't happen.

My honest opinion is that I simply don't rate Gruden too highly as a HC. Never have.

OK, that's fine, but, Are the Jets doing their due dilligance by not contacting him?

What if he says, "you know the last few years in tampa, we weren't getting along, there was a lot of bimping heads, i want a fresh start, I want a chance to show I could do what i did in Oakland and Tampa", do you not at least give him that chance?

I thought this was "professional sports"

[SoFlaJets]

the thing about coaches with rings is they CAN coach...when they have the horses to implement their philosophy...otherwise they suffer the same fate as Gruden, Billick, Shanahan, Seifert and Jimmy Johnson

[Sperm Edwards]

But we know he CAN coach.

You're also drawing the conclusion (or certainly painting the picture) that he's the only one who can coach. Ditto Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren...

When a HC doesn't want to work this year, and only money brings him back, you do NOT want that HC. Cowher doesn't want to coach. But money will make him as effective as he was in Pittsburgh? Same with Holmgren? You're dreaming.

Being an NFL HC is a busy job. A very busy, busy job with lots of pressure and scrutiny and second-guessing going on all around you. And these guys know it as well as anyone. If they say "I don't want to coach this year," then you as a team don't want them either.

Your bitching about Shanahan is falling on deaf ears here. He also wants to be the GM. He can stick that where the sun don't shine because as good of a HC as he is (or was), he's equally bad at being a GM. Other than Al Davis and mabe Matt Millen, he was the worst GM in the NFL. It's a package deal with Shanahan. You don't get to choose just the part of the package that you want and throw the rest out the window.

And the secret to getting these guys here to coach with just as much heart as they did in the past, or be satisfied with a relative demotion (in Shanahan's case) is MONEY? These guys are already stupidly rich. They always will be. They will never run out of money. Their lives aren't going to be any different because Woody Johnson offers the ludicrous sum of $8M instead of the $5-6M (or the same $8M) they can get after the time off that they so fervently desire.

Your anger at the situation regarding these coaches is misguided.

As far as bringing Gruden in for the sake of bringing him in...what about this situation: Rex Ryan is the guy we want. We are the team he wants to go to. He can be a bit of a hot-head, so maybe he sees the Jets interviewing a new candidate (after they already have a handshake deal in place, which they surely do) as a lack of faith in their choice of him to be the HC. And then the Ravens season ends (this week or after the SB)...and he backs out of the Jets job. Oh -- and Gruden didn't want to coach here. And we end up with Brian Schottenheimer.

On paper, you "have to" bring him in. But people are people, not pieces of paper. When you've already got your man and he's excited to take the job, you don't do something to screw up the relationship between new HC and the GM/owner to "pick Jon Gruden's brain" for a few hours during an initial interview.

[Irish Jet]

OK, that's fine, but, Are the Jets doing their due dilligance by not contacting him?

What if he says, "you know the last few years in tampa, we weren't getting along, there was a lot of bimping heads, i want a fresh start, I want a chance to show I could do what i did in Oakland and Tampa", do you not at least give him that chance?

I thought this was "professional sports"

I simply think that the Jets already have their guy in Ryan, may already have an agreement in place and don't wan to jeopradise it by contacting Gruden.

If they contact Gruden Ryan may lose faith in the team that he's agreed to join.

[Irish Jet]

You're also drawing the conclusion (or certainly painting the picture) that he's the only one who can coach. Ditto Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren...

When a HC doesn't want to work this year, and only money brings him back, you do NOT want that HC. Cowher doesn't want to coach. But money will make him as effective as he was in Pittsburgh? Same with Holmgren? You're dreaming.

Being an NFL HC is a busy job. A very busy, busy job with lots of pressure and scrutiny and second-guessing going on all around you. And these guys know it as well as anyone. If they say "I don't want to coach this year," then you as a team don't want them either.

Your bitching about Shanahan is falling on deaf ears here. He also wants to be the GM. He can stick that where the sun don't shine because as good of a HC as he is (or was), he's equally bad at being a GM. Other than Al Davis and mabe Matt Millen, he was the worst GM in the NFL. It's a package deal with Shanahan. You don't get to choose just the part of the package that you want and throw the rest out the window.

And the secret to getting these guys here to coach with just as much heart as they did in the past, or be satisfied with a relative demotion (in Shanahan's case) is MONEY? These guys are already stupidly rich. They always will be. They will never run out of money. Their lives aren't going to be any different because Woody Johnson offers the ludicrous sum of $8M instead of the $5-6M (or the same $8M) they can get after the time off that they so fervently desire.

Your anger at the situation regarding these coaches is misguided.

As far as bringing Gruden in for the sake of bringing him in...what about this situation: Rex Ryan is the guy we want. We are the team he wants to go to. He can be a bit of a hot-head, so maybe he sees the Jets interviewing a new candidate (after they already have a handshake deal in place, which they surely do) as a lack of faith in their choice of him to be the HC. And then the Ravens season ends (this week or after the SB)...and he backs out of the Jets job. Oh -- and Gruden didn't want to coach here. And we end up with Brian Schottenheimer.

On paper, you "have to" bring him in. But people are people, not pieces of paper. When you've already got your man and he's excited to take the job, you don't do something to screw up the relationship between new HC and the GM/owner to "pick Jon Gruden's brain" for a few hours during an initial interview.

Beat me to it.

[DMaynard]

But we know he CAN coach. Example, I am pretty good at my job, but I've been with places where the management above and around me were pissin me off, my work slacked, it was time to go, I was half aSSin it, then went somewhere else and, BAM!

At least talk to him, he KNOWS how to coach a team to the superbowl.

Forget it, I'm with you Maynard, I'd like to see what you said when Mangini and Herm were hired but I'll go on blind faith, bro. You seem to know your -ish LOL

Trust me. This is DMaynard, not Bernie Madoff.

[Green DNA]

You're also drawing the conclusion (or certainly painting the picture) that he's the only one who can coach. Ditto Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren...

When a HC doesn't want to work this year, and only money brings him back, you do NOT want that HC. Cowher doesn't want to coach. But money will make him as effective as he was in Pittsburgh? Same with Holmgren? You're dreaming.

Being an NFL HC is a busy job. A very busy, busy job with lots of pressure and scrutiny and second-guessing going on all around you. And these guys know it as well as anyone. If they say "I don't want to coach this year," then you as a team don't want them either.

Your bitching about Shanahan is falling on deaf ears here. He also wants to be the GM. He can stick that where the sun don't shine because as good of a HC as he is (or was), he's equally bad at being a GM. Other than Al Davis and mabe Matt Millen, he was the worst GM in the NFL. It's a package deal with Shanahan. You don't get to choose just the part of the package that you want and throw the rest out the window.

And the secret to getting these guys here to coach with just as much heart as they did in the past, or be satisfied with a relative demotion (in Shanahan's case) is MONEY? These guys are already stupidly rich. They always will be. They will never run out of money. Their lives aren't going to be any different because Woody Johnson offers the ludicrous sum of $8M instead of the $5-6M (or the same $8M) they can get after the time off that they so fervently desire.

Your anger at the situation regarding these coaches is misguided.

As far as bringing Gruden in for the sake of bringing him in...what about this situation: Rex Ryan is the guy we want. We are the team he wants to go to. He can be a bit of a hot-head, so maybe he sees the Jets interviewing a new candidate (after they already have a handshake deal in place, which they surely do) as a lack of faith in their choice of him to be the HC. And then the Ravens season ends (this week or after the SB)...and he backs out of the Jets job. Oh -- and Gruden didn't want to coach here. And we end up with Brian Schottenheimer.

On paper, you "have to" bring him in. But people are people, not pieces of paper. When you've already got your man and he's excited to take the job, you don't do something to screw up the relationship between new HC and the GM/owner to "pick Jon Gruden's brain" for a few hours during an initial interview.

Nice post, that sums it up nicely. I'll have to nominate it for POTW honors, damn you Sperm Edwards!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Nice post, that sums it up nicely. I'll have to nominate it for POTW honors, damn you Sperm Edwards!!

That is why I'm me and you're you. As you surely know, it's in the DNA. And your green DNA isn't ripe yet.

[aec4]

I simply think that the Jets already have their guy in Ryan, may already have an agreement in place and don't wan to jeopradise it by contacting Gruden.

If they contact Gruden Ryan may lose faith in the team that he's agreed to join.

They better not have an agreement in place. I'm not prepared to lose a 1st round draft pick over the agreement.

[slats]

OK, that's fine, but, Are the Jets doing their due dilligance by not contacting him?

These guys seem to be doing their due diligence. They've interviewed more people than anyone else looking for coach this cycle (it seems). As for Gruden, I'd guess that they've gathered enough behind the scenes information about him that they don't feel need to hear his bullsh!t in person.

[aec4]

As far as bringing Gruden in for the sake of bringing him in...what about this situation: Rex Ryan is the guy we want. We are the team he wants to go to. He can be a bit of a hot-head, so maybe he sees the Jets interviewing a new candidate (after they already have a handshake deal in place, which they surely do) as a lack of faith in their choice of him to be the HC. And then the Ravens season ends (this week or after the SB)...and he backs out of the Jets job. Oh -- and Gruden didn't want to coach here. And we end up with Brian Schottenheimer.

Then you let him walk. If he's that insecure, then he's not the guy. If this happened, you did yourself a favor because you weeded out an insecure person before hiring him.

Now, I'm not saying he's insecure.. I'm just playing along with the hypothetical. The fact is I think Ryan will be a good coach for the NYJ. I personally like Gruden better (I think this team needs a proven guy), but if we are going to go coordinator, and it's not going to be Todd Haley, than Ryan is the guy.

[Sperm Edwards]

Then you let him walk. If he's that insecure, then he's not the guy. If this happened, you did yourself a favor because you weeded out an insecure person before hiring him.

Now, I'm not saying he's insecure.. I'm just playing along with the hypothetical. The fact is I think Ryan will be a good coach for the NYJ. I personally like Gruden better (I think this team needs a proven guy), but if we are going to go coordinator, and it's not going to be Todd Haley, than Ryan is the guy.

Then we'll just disagree on this. No reason to tell someone he's your guy and then interview someone else who is unlikely to sway that.

I don't think Gruden is all that, but he's a hell of a lot better than people here are ripping him on. As though he was some lucky moron who had a superbowl ring all wrapped up for him in Tampa and all he had to do was show up to work. Like anything's ever that simple.

[Irish Jet]

They better not have an agreement in place. I'm not prepared to lose a 1st round draft pick over the agreement.

Not an official agreement but more of a handshake agreement which is pretty common.

[Sperm Edwards]

Not an official agreement but more of a handshake agreement which is pretty common.

It's not really tampering either, I don't think. Baltimore granted the Jets permission to talk with him about their vacant HC position. They would never file tampering charges no matter what was "agreed" & to my knowledge it's never been done before.

While it could be ruled as tampering if you take the rule literally, it's only tampering in practice if it was done behind the original team's back or against their will. That's not the case here.

[lancemehl]

the thing about coaches with rings is they CAN coach...when they have the horses to implement their philosophy...otherwise they suffer the same fate as Gruden, Billick, Shanahan, Seifert and Jimmy Johnson

SFJ, didn't we spend a S#@TLOAD off money to get "The right horses".We HAVE the right horses, we are a WIN NOW team!!! Which is why I'm not fully opposed to giving Favre one more shot. 7 pro bowlers. how many does Tampa have?

[lancemehl]

You're also drawing the conclusion (or certainly painting the picture) that he's the only one who can coach. Ditto Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren...

When a HC doesn't want to work this year, and only money brings him back, you do NOT want that HC. Cowher doesn't want to coach. But money will make him as effective as he was in Pittsburgh? Same with Holmgren? You're dreaming.

Being an NFL HC is a busy job. A very busy, busy job with lots of pressure and scrutiny and second-guessing going on all around you. And these guys know it as well as anyone. If they say "I don't want to coach this year," then you as a team don't want them either.

Your bitching about Shanahan is falling on deaf ears here. He also wants to be the GM. He can stick that where the sun don't shine because as good of a HC as he is (or was), he's equally bad at being a GM. Other than Al Davis and mabe Matt Millen, he was the worst GM in the NFL. It's a package deal with Shanahan. You don't get to choose just the part of the package that you want and throw the rest out the window.

And the secret to getting these guys here to coach with just as much heart as they did in the past, or be satisfied with a relative demotion (in Shanahan's case) is MONEY? These guys are already stupidly rich. They always will be. They will never run out of money. Their lives aren't going to be any different because Woody Johnson offers the ludicrous sum of $8M instead of the $5-6M (or the same $8M) they can get after the time off that they so fervently desire.

Your anger at the situation regarding these coaches is misguided.

As far as bringing Gruden in for the sake of bringing him in...what about this situation: Rex Ryan is the guy we want. We are the team he wants to go to. He can be a bit of a hot-head, so maybe he sees the Jets interviewing a new candidate (after they already have a handshake deal in place, which they surely do) as a lack of faith in their choice of him to be the HC. And then the Ravens season ends (this week or after the SB)...and he backs out of the Jets job. Oh -- and Gruden didn't want to coach here. And we end up with Brian Schottenheimer.

On paper, you "have to" bring him in. But people are people, not pieces of paper. When you've already got your man and he's excited to take the job, you don't do something to screw up the relationship between new HC and the GM/owner to "pick Jon Gruden's brain" for a few hours during an initial interview.

all about Gruden right now, if Cowher doesn't want to coach, fine. same for shannahan, just try, maybe Gruden wants to, not only coach but kick a$$.

[lancemehl]

I simply think that the Jets already have their guy in Ryan, may already have an agreement in place and don't wan to jeopradise it by contacting Gruden.

If they contact Gruden Ryan may lose faith in the team that he's agreed to join.

Now, That may very well be true.

[aec4]

Not an official agreement but more of a handshake agreement which is pretty common.

And if discovered, also tampering and also a penalty will be assessed.

Herm had a handshake agreement with KC.. sure it was during the regular season, but he had it.. . so what happened? We got a 4th.

[slats]

And if discovered, also tampering and also a penalty will be assessed.

Herm had a handshake agreement with KC.. sure it was during the regular season, but he had it.. . so what happened? We got a 4th.

This was covered by Sperm.

The Ravens granted the Jets permission to talk to Ryan about their HC position - there will be no tampering charges if the Jets hire him as their HC. The move by the Rams to lock up Spags before tonight could suggest that the Jets and Ryan already have that secret handshake in place.