Yankees dispatch Hughes, three others to minors

[PFSIKH]

Cause after he went 0-5 for you guys they kept him in there. They let him take his lumps and you know, didnt' send him down to AAA. And then it's not like he didn't have a good spring training and get appointed to a #5. They just kept him in and let him take his LUMPS. Gotcha.

I think I understand Scott's point about Hughes and it is more antagonistic for a certain member who is no longer here.

I agree with his point about letting them pitch. They need to learn to deal with adversity.

I would say it is a pitcher to pitcher judgment call. If you think a player is soft, I would send him down. If you think they can handle adversity, then allow them to pitch.

The Sox did that with Clay Bucholz last year. He was getting pounded for half the year. They then demoted him and this spring he has been a lot better. We shall see in the regular season, but so far he is looking better.

[Maxman]

He's 22.

Good point. He won't be 23 until after the season begins so it is worth pointing out.

[Maxman]

You are right-That should serve as end of debate.

I got it Yank fans-Hughes is untouchable in your minds as to admitting there is any type of flaw with him at all.

He is baseball's wunderkind. The HOF type of stuff applies.

This is where you are reaching. Who is saying that?

Most Yankee fans really like his upside, myself included. In the meantime (while he is in the minors) we are going to watch the Yankees win a World Series or two.

But hey have fun watching your pitchers take their lumps in the majors. Because that is the way to go obviously.

[Scott Dierking]

This is where you are reaching. Who is saying that?

Most Yankee fans really like his upside, myself included. In the meantime (while he is in the minors) we are going to watch the Yankees win a World Series or two.

But hey have fun watching your pitchers take their lumps in the majors. Because that is the way to go obviously.

Every pitcher takes their lumps in the bigs, eventually. You don't get sent down to the minors to avoid taking the lumps. The pitchers are few and far between that come and have immediate success (Hughes included).

All the Yankees are is delaying the inevitable. Something they certainly wanted to get out of the way last year, but Hughes let them down.

[Otter]

I think I understand Scott's point about Hughes and it is more antagonistic for a certain member who is no longer here.

I agree with his point about letting them pitch. They need to learn to deal with adversity.

I would say it is a pitcher to pitcher judgment call. If you think a player is soft, I would send him down. If you think they can handle adversity, then allow them to pitch.

The Sox did that with Clay Bucholz last year. He was getting pounded for half the year. They then demoted him and this spring he has been a lot better. We shall see in the regular season, but so far he is looking better.

I understand what you are saying. But, I don't think the Yankees necessarily think Hughes is soft. If they didn't go out and sign two starters and resign Pettite he would have been in the rotation. Right now they don't need him to start so he may as well go to S-WB and get innings. He'll be up soon enough when one of the starters go down.

[Maxman]

Every pitcher takes their lumps in the bigs, eventually. You don't get sent down to the minors to avoid taking the lumps. The pitchers are few and far between that come and have immediate success (Hughes included).

All the Yankees are is delaying the inevitable. Something they certainly wanted to get out of the way last year, but Hughes let them down.

This is news? Hughes was a disappointment last year. A huge one. Not sure why you are so obsessed with he. He has to regroup and rebound at AAA. When the Yankees need another starter right now he stands to be the first guy called up.

But you are wrong if you are wrong if you are suggesting the only way for him to get better at the age of 22 is to "take his lumps" in the majors. That isn't the Yankee way, and since they have won more than anybody else, I will defer to them over you.

No offense intended of course.

[Scott Dierking]

This is news? Hughes was a disappointment last year. A huge one.

THANK YOU for bringing me back to my very original point.

We agree. Now I know the young homers won't be able to admit that.

[Arsis]

THANK YOU for bringing me back to my very original point.

We agree. Now I know the young homers won't be able to admit that.

Everyone agrees he sucked big time last year. The whole argument was about what is the significance of it. You think it means his career is over and he is a disappointment. We feel that just isn't true. That he has a good career ahead of him. That is a top of the rotation guy in the mlb. That while he was a disappointment last year he is not a disappointment in his career.

[Zeebers]

This is news? Hughes was a disappointment last year. A huge one. Not sure why you are so obsessed with he. He has to regroup and rebound at AAA. When the Yankees need another starter right now he stands to be the first guy called up.

But you are wrong if you are wrong if you are suggesting the only way for him to get better at the age of 22 is to "take his lumps" in the majors. That isn't the Yankee way, and since they have won more than anybody else, I will defer to them over you.

No offense intended of course.

Seems like SD was trying to make the point that Hughes was a disappointment last year and the Yankee brass went out signed FA pitchers for their rotation instead of handing Hughes anything which they did in 2008. For whatever reason, some Yankee fans refuse to admit that he did let them down last year, instead choosing to believe that the reason to throw out big money to pitchers was to add depth and it in no way reflects Hughes.

[Zeebers]

Everyone agrees he sucked big time last year. The whole argument was about what is the significance of it. You think it means his career is over and he is a disappointment. We feel that just isn't true. That he has a good career ahead of him. That is a top of the rotation guy in the mlb. That while he was a disappointment last year he is not a disappointment in his career.

His "career" to this point has been a big disappointment, and that doesn't mean his career is over. It just means you have no idea how he will perform. To just say he is a top of the rotation guy based on projections is a little premature and maybe wishful thinking.

[Arsis]

His "career" to this point has been a big disappointment, and that doesn't mean his career is over. It just means you have no idea how he will perform. To just say he is a top of the rotation guy based on projections is a little premature and maybe wishful thinking.

His career is just starting. He had a great spring training and has some good stuff. I say he is a major contributor to the Yankees rotation next season. I'll bet you and SD $100 on hughes wins next year what do you want to put the over under at? I'll take the over.

[Maxman]

THANK YOU for bringing me back to my very original point.

We agree. Now I know the young homers won't be able to admit that.

I find it hard to believe (that you had an original point).

Now if someone is trying to say that Hughes wasn't a disappointment last year based on what they Yankees thought he could produce well they are wrong.

Doesn't change much for his long term upside though.

[GimmeShelter]

Seems like SD was trying to make the point that Hughes was a disappointment last year and the Yankee brass went out signed FA pitchers for their rotation instead of handing Hughes anything which they did in 2008. For whatever reason, some Yankee fans refuse to admit that he did let them down last year, instead choosing to believe that the reason to throw out big money to pitchers was to add depth and it in no way reflects Hughes.

That's what I thought as well but those type of statements apparently are not well received by some.

[Vicious89x]

I think I understand Scott's point about Hughes and it is more antagonistic for a certain member who is no longer here.

I agree with his point about letting them pitch. They need to learn to deal with adversity.

I would say it is a pitcher to pitcher judgment call. If you think a player is soft, I would send him down. If you think they can handle adversity, then allow them to pitch.

The Sox did that with Clay Bucholz last year. He was getting pounded for half the year. They then demoted him and this spring he has been a lot better. We shall see in the regular season, but so far he is looking better.

Some guys take time and need the coddling, others just get it and you brought up a perfect example. Bucholz has shown flashes but seems to have needed more time. Lester has been pretty damn good. Kinda like Joba has been for us. I think some people here are basically labeling Hughes as a BUST. calling a 23 year old a bust in baseball is a bit much. Especially at that position.

[Vicious89x]

His "career" to this point has been a big disappointment, and that doesn't mean his career is over. It just means you have no idea how he will perform. To just say he is a top of the rotation guy based on projections is a little premature and maybe wishful thinking.

I'll say it only has been a disappointment because of the HYPE. I mean this kid, at 21 years of age was being heralded as the next pitching phenom. So yes, in that aspect he's disappointing. I'm just trying to keep a level head about him... he's young, has shown progress, still has good stuff and needs more experience. If he blew last year (which he did) and it forced us to get FA pitching and give him another year to develop and next year he's good... then it's a blessing in disguise.

[Maxman]

That's what I thought as well but those type of statements apparently are not well received by some.

I think we can agree that SD is just an innocent bystander in all of this, lol.

[Zeebers]

His career is just starting. He had a great spring training and has some good stuff. I say he is a major contributor to the Yankees rotation next season. I'll bet you and SD $100 on hughes wins next year what do you want to put the over under at? I'll take the over.

Do you realize how silly and ridiculous you sound when you "bet" someone over a message board without knowing who they are? I don't think you're a 14 year old, but I wonder.

First off, how are you ever going to collect should I or anyone else lose and vice versa. What are you going to do? Call me names and such on the interwebs?

Secondly, there was no contradictory statement made. I said, Hughes was a disappointment to Yankee brass last year, and anyone who disagrees with that statement is either the biggest homer on this board or have the heads stuck up their their arse. I never made any comments about what I think Hughes future is. I would say I don't know, and as of today he has not lived up to the hype.

Third, you are adamant that Hughes is a top of the rotation starter, so what would the over/under on a Ace type pitcher on the Yankees be? 18 wins? The point is, how will you ever be able to settle on an over/under. It's utterly ridiculous.

Last but certainly not least, for a guy who watches 2 games a year you sure know a lot about baseball and the phenom himself. Congrats.

[Scott Dierking]

I find it hard to believe (that you had an original point).

Now if someone is trying to say that Hughes wasn't a disappointment last year based on what they Yankees thought he could produce well they are wrong.

Doesn't change much for his long term upside though.

Well Max. if you and others took the time to go back and read my very first post in this thread, you would see my point.

The problem is, you and others want to attack either the poster, or the idea that the poster may be saying something negative about the Yankees, rather than the point.

It is a knee jerk reaction by some to defend any statement that contains the word "Hughes" and "Yankees" in the same sentence.

Oddly enough, your last summation, came very close to my original point-That Hughes was such a dissapointment last year, and that the Yankees could not trust him in the rotation this year, that they had to spend $$$ on a FA.

That is all. The sensitivities of some on this topic is borderline comedy. And one of the few times, you jump in and pile on for someone actually having a diverse opinion.

[Scott Dierking]

Everyone agrees he sucked big time last year. The whole argument was about what is the significance of it. You think it means his career is over and he is a disappointment. We feel that just isn't true. That he has a good career ahead of him. That is a top of the rotation guy in the mlb. That while he was a disappointment last year he is not a disappointment in his career.

I NEVER said his career was OVER. He iISD currently a DISAPPOINTMENT.

So much of one, that the Yankees had to spend $$$$ on a stop gap fill-in.

BTW-Just a "good" career, does not make you a top of the rotation guy.

His career is only currently defined by what he has done in the Majors, not his "potential". By that measure, he has been a disappointment

[Scott Dierking]

I'll say it only has been a disappointment because of the HYPE. I mean this kid, at 21 years of age was being heralded as the next pitching phenom. So yes, in that aspect he's disappointing. I'm just trying to keep a level head about him... he's young, has shown progress, still has good stuff and needs more experience. If he blew last year (which he did) and it forced us to get FA pitching and give him another year to develop and next year he's good... then it's a blessing in disguise.

I argue nothing about what you say here.

If a non-Yankee fan says it, it is volatile.

[Arsis]

Do you realize how silly and ridiculous you sound when you "bet" someone over a message board without knowing who they are? I don't think you're a 14 year old, but I wonder.

First off, how are you ever going to collect should I or anyone else lose and vice versa. What are you going to do? Call me names and such on the interwebs?

Secondly, there was no contradictory statement made. I said, Hughes was a disappointment to Yankee brass last year, and anyone who disagrees with that statement is either the biggest homer on this board or have the heads stuck up their their arse. I never made any comments about what I think Hughes future is. I would say I don't know, and as of today he has not lived up to the hype.

Third, you are adamant that Hughes is a top of the rotation starter, so what would the over/under on a Ace type pitcher on the Yankees be? 18 wins? The point is, how will you ever be able to settle on an over/under. It's utterly ridiculous.

Last but certainly not least, for a guy who watches 2 games a year you sure know a lot about baseball and the phenom himself. Congrats.

Are you saying you are untrustworthy? I also think 15 is a fair number, no?

[Zeebers]

Are you saying you are untrustworthy? I also think 15 is a fair number, no?

15 is fair and I am not saying I am untrustworthy or you are untrustworthy. I am saying, what's the point? I can't believe anything i said would be so offensive, that you want to put money on it?

[Vicious89x]

I argue nothing about what you say here.

If a non-Yankee fan says it, it is volatile.

Sounded to me more or less you're calling him a bust. Which to me sounded ridiculous. If you're saying it just forced us to get FA pitching then I don't disagree. He still has time to show whether or not he'll be a big league starter or not.

[Arsis]

15 is fair and I am not saying I am untrustworthy or you are untrustworthy. I am saying, what's the point? I can't believe anything i said would be so offensive, that you want to put money on it?

Lol, I just wanted to see if you felt as strongly about it and were as confident about it as you seemed. If the kid is as bad and a much of a disappointment as you say he is it's a gimme bet.

[Maxman]

Well Max. if you and others took the time to go back and read my very first post in this thread, you would see my point.

The problem is, you and others want to attack either the poster, or the idea that the poster may be saying something negative about the Yankees, rather than the point.

It is a knee jerk reaction by some to defend any statement that contains the word "Hughes" and "Yankees" in the same sentence.

Oddly enough, your last summation, came very close to my original point-That Hughes was such a dissapointment last year, and that the Yankees could not trust him in the rotation this year, that they had to spend $$$ on a FA.

That is all. The sensitivities of some on this topic is borderline comedy. And one of the few times, you jump in and pile on for someone actually having a diverse opinion.

Your first sentence in this thread was in reference to Phil Hughes and the Hall of Fame.

Madmike is gone. You are lumping Yankee fans into a category that is simply unfair. It would be like me calling Mets fans jealous haters. Just wouldn't be true for everyone.

Madmike is gone Scott. He can't hurt you anymore. Time to move past it.

[Arsis]

Your first sentence in this thread was in reference to Phil Hughes and the Hall of Fame.

Madmike is gone. You are lumping Yankee fans into a category that is simply unfair. It would be like me calling Mets fans jealous haters. Just wouldn't be true for everyone.

Madmike is gone Scott. He can't hurt you anymore. Time to move past it.

This guys comes in and starts talking **** implying the kid is a bust and his career is over and we should give up on him and when he is proven wrong with facts and logic he comes in and trying to change his story. " but... but I was only talking about last year. It wasn't me calling him a bust and a failure saying that the Yankees had no confidence in him at all and blah blah blah"

[Zeebers]

Lol, I just wanted to see if you felt as strongly about it and were as confident about it as you seemed. If the kid is as bad and a much of a disappointment as you say he is it's a gimme bet.

Winning or losing a bet won't make the original point untrue. I never made any statement as to what I think Hughe's future will be. If you ask me, I'd say he's probably a 3 or a 4 on a good team from what I've seen from him. He's advertised as a guy with a Mid 90's fastball and I've never seen that. Say, Hughes goes and wins 22 games next year. Does that make him not a disappointment in '08? No he won a total of 0 games in 2008. That's not only a disappointment, Brian Cashman in private will probably tell you that is a disaster. What are we trying to debate here. One has no relevance to the other.

As far as your little bet goes. I am not a child, you're not going to be able to egg me into getting into a bet that proves nothing. Like I said, how can I be sure that I can collect. I don't know you. You can tell me you're reliable but what does that really mean on the internet, and vice versa. This "bet" you are talking about is 2 years down the line. Think about how ridiculous that is. If I actually knew who you were, I'd take that bet in a heartbeat.

[Scott Dierking]

Your first sentence in this thread was in reference to Phil Hughes and the Hall of Fame.

Madmike is gone. You are lumping Yankee fans into a category that is simply unfair. It would be like me calling Mets fans jealous haters. Just wouldn't be true for everyone.

Madmike is gone Scott. He can't hurt you anymore. Time to move past it.

And Sooth stopped censoring you years ago.

Maybe YOU should get over something.

See Max, I can hurt too.

[Scott Dierking]

Sounded to me more or less you're calling him a bust. Which to me sounded ridiculous. If you're saying it just forced us to get FA pitching then I don't disagree. He still has time to show whether or not he'll be a big league starter or not.

I never said"bust". People just want to insinuate that.

I saidf the Yankees had to be disappointed in him this far.

[Maxman]

And Sooth stopped censoring you years ago.

Maybe YOU should get over something.

See Max, I can hurt too.

Sooth actually never censored my posts when I was on his site.

[PFSIKH]

I NEVER said his career was OVER. He iISD currently a DISAPPOINTMENT.

So much of one, that the Yankees had to spend $$$$ on a stop gap fill-in.

BTW-Just a "good" career, does not make you a top of the rotation guy.

His career is only currently defined by what he has done in the Majors, not his "potential". By that measure, he has been a disappointment

Scott you are right.

He was supposed to be in the majors when? Two years ago?

There is time left, but he is not the anointed one and there were more then just MadMike. Yankee nation is gripping and Scott hit the nail on the head.

[Maxman]

Scott you are right.

He was supposed to be in the majors when? Two years ago?

There is time left, but he is not the anointed one and there were more then just MadMike. Yankee nation is gripping and Scott hit the nail on the head.

I just think this is a weird one for Yankee haters to rally around. 21 year old Phil Hughes did not get it done. The Yankees tried to spend less money and go with prospects and they are getting killed for it. They get killed when they sign free agents. Yankee haters have it both ways.

The bottom line for me as a Yankee fan is this, the Yankees tried and failed. Hughes long term potential is really huge in my opinion. BUT I like that they are making him earn it. A few bus trips this year will serve as great motivation.

And more importantly I am very happy that the Yankees have 5 better starting pitchers in the rotation right now.

[Vicious89x]

Scott you are right.

He was supposed to be in the majors when? Two years ago?

There is time left, but he is not the anointed one and there were more then just MadMike. Yankee nation is gripping and Scott hit the nail on the head.

There's no saying that he brings it all together. That's my griping point.

Here's my view (a homeristic one of course).

-He's been disappointing thus far

-He's still young and can become a top end pitcher

-If he doesn't become top end I still think he'll be another SOLID pitcher in our rotation

Either way it's a plus for the Yankees and I'm glad we didn't trade him away.

Kennedy on the other hand to me is and will be terrible.

[Jbro22]

There's no saying that he brings it all together. That's my griping point.

Here's my view (a homeristic one of course).

-He's been disappointing thus far

-He's still young and can become a top end pitcher

-If he doesn't become top end I still think he'll be another SOLID pitcher in our rotation

Either way it's a plus for the Yankees and I'm glad we didn't trade him away.

Kennedy on the other hand to me is and will be terrible.

It doesn't help that he runs his mouth after he loses.

[Vicious89x]

It doesn't help that he runs his mouth after he loses.

He's a whiner. Doesn't seem to have the mental makeup to be a big league pitcher on a big franchise. Hughes and Joba seem to have the mindset and the tools, I'm hoping Hughes can get it together this year and be huge for us next year.

I'm curious to see Jackson's development this year as well cause we're gonna have an OF situation next offseason.