ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'd agree with this if she wasnt on her damn property. It's not like she was on her property filming a lunar eclipse and this just happened. She came out to the edge of her property with the intent of filming the cops. Legal, perhaps. Obnoxious, absolutely. So, back to my point about making yourself a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Waaa Waaa Waaa That opinion, to recap, is don't be an obnoxious prick to cops and you wont have any problems with them. Guess what? I've never been an obnoxious prick to cops and I've never had a problem with them. Enjoy your principled stance and moral high ground while I go on living my life without incident. There are sheeple and then there are people. And you have made it abundantly clear which you belong to. Enjoy your incident free life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Have people tape them and if they abuse thier power, they out.. Just like I would be if I was surfing porn at work You wouldn't have a single employee left if everyone was video taped during high stress interactions. You're being paid right now to talk to me on JetNation. You think your boss would be cool with that? Probably not. But, at the same time, perhaps the cost benefit of disciplining you over it would not make sense. Just like when a cop acts imperfectly in a high stress situation when someone is intentionally contributing to the stress level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 He never told her to stop taping. He told her to back the **** up. Maybe he had a bad experience before. She should have sat on her pocrh and continued taping. Cops usually don;t **** with people that don;t **** with them. Yes, it happens but this could have been avoided if she just showed a little courtesy. I would like to break into her house and sh*t on her when she sleeping to see if she called the cops or taped my a$$hole. I was at a a concert last year, and cops were in one of those little carts trying to drive through the crowds tailgating and walking around... The cop, being the supreme being that he is, was annoyed at the incovienance of having to wait for people to make room for him to drive through.. so, he beeped his horn loudly, with constant repetition to speed up this process.. Another concert grower, haning out by his car and annoyed by the incessant blaring, yelled out "Can you give us a break with the freaken horn"... The cop, unhappy with being questioned like this, jumped out his vehicle, threw the kid on the ground, pinned him on the hot cement with his knee in the back of his head, then cuffed him and stuck him in camden jail... Was that arrest worthy in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The police made her a distraction. They could've easily ignored her and gone about their jobs. They chose not to. People who are obeying the law should not need to be taught a lesson by the police. That's not their job. She was out there for no other reason but to antagonize the situation, obviously with an anti-police agenda, while these cops were making an arrest in a sh*tty neighborhood at night. And you want this person standing behind you? Come on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's not like she was on her property filming a lunar eclipse and this just happened. She came out to the edge of her property with the intent of filming the cops. Legal, perhaps. Obnoxious, absolutely. So, back to my point about making yourself a target. We'll just like you said earlier, you dont know what she was doing before they were filming. What if her friends were out front crunking and she was filming, this happened and kept rolling the tape? Bottom line, she was on her F'ing property not disturbing that officer in the slightest (based on what we saw on film). Idiot for pushing the cop to the point of arresting her, but never should have been confronted to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's not like she was on her property filming a lunar eclipse and this just happened. She came out to the edge of her property with the intent of filming the cops. Legal, perhaps. Obnoxious, absolutely. So, back to my point about making yourself a target. It's up to the police, charged with upholding the law, to uphold it - not abuse their power. This obnoxious woman engaged in legal behavior has the legal right to make herself whatever kind of target she wants to make of herself, it's up to the people employed and empowered with enforcing the law to know not to cross it. They violated her rights. You may not like it, they may not like it, but the obnoxious do have civil rights, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 You wouldn't have a single employee left if everyone was video taped during high stress interactions. You're being paid right now to talk to me on JetNation. You think your boss would be cool with that? Probably not. But, at the same time, perhaps the cost benefit of disciplining you over it would not make sense. Just like when a cop acts imperfectly in a high stress situation when someone is intentionally contributing to the stress level. The point is, my job would be well within in thier rights to discipline and has the systems in place to track it and do so. The women was doing no differently then my employer does (she's his employer, as a tax paying citizen). You're comparison holds no water on that ground alone. Nevermind the quis custodiet ipsos custodes angle here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 There are sheeple and then there are people. And you have made it abundantly clear which you belong to. Enjoy your incident free life. Yeah, I'm a sheep because it's not worth a night in jail and being targeted for tickets to get some low quality video of a cop. There are intelligent people and there are idiots. Intelligent people do cost benefit analysis of their actions and decide if the risk is worth the reward. Idiots do not. And you have made it abundantly clear which you belong to. Enjoy being harassed for unnecessary principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Enjoy being harassed for unnecessary principles. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 She was out there for no other reason but to antagonize the situation, obviously with an anti-police agenda, while these cops were making an arrest in a sh*tty neighborhood at night. And you want this person standing behind you? Come on now. Wanting it has nothing to do with it. Not wanting it doesn't give them the right to violate the rights of a law abiding citizen. She has the right to be anti-police if she wants to be. She has the right to stand on her lawn with a goddamned sign, cranking out N.W.A.'s F*ck the Police on a boombox above her head, while she sets an American flag on fire if that's what she feels like doing. They do not have the right to arrest her. It's not about liking it, wanting it, agreeing with it, or anything else along those lines. It's about an individual's civil rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's up to the police, charged with upholding the law, to uphold it - not abuse their power. This obnoxious woman engaged in legal behavior has the legal right to make herself whatever kind of target she wants to make of herself, it's up to the people employed and empowered with enforcing the law to know not to cross it. They violated her rights. You may not like it, they may not like it, but the obnoxious do have civil rights, too. Yes, they do have these rights. And, her rights were in fact violated. However, my point the whole time was I do not feel bad for someone who has their rights violated if they engage in behavior that makes it supremely more likely for those rights to be violated. Bad things happen when you put yourself in the position for bad things to happen. Call it social darwinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The point is, my job would be well within in thier rights to discipline and has the systems in place to track it and do so. The women was doing no differently then my employer does (she's his employer, as a tax paying citizen). You're comparison holds no water on that ground alone. Nevermind the quis custodiet ipsos custodes angle here. She is most certainly not his employer. Could she discipline him herself? Could she fire him herself? She pays taxes into a system that pays him, her importance ends there. My guess is the cops real employer gave some kind of public slap on the wrist and behind closed doors told him he completely understands what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yes, they do have these rights. And, her rights were in fact violated. However, my point the whole time was I do not feel bad for someone who has their rights violated if they engage in behavior that makes it supremely more likely for those rights to be violated. Bad things happen when you put yourself in the position for bad things to happen. Call it social darwinism. That's fine. I could give a crap about the woman herself. I do care about living someplace where the police violating the rights of a citizen is rationalized, tolerated, excused, and even applauded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 **** DA POLICE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The world is a sick f*cking place. There's a house about a half hour away from me where two scumbags broke in, cracked open a father's skull, then raped and sodomized his wife and daughters before tying them to beds and burning them alive. The guy lived. Every time somebody weeps over the supposed rights of a dopey bitch like the one in this story, they implicitly make it more difficult for police to protect us from scumbags who would break into our homes and kill our families. If, occasionally, a cop crosses the line and inconveniences some antagonistic moron in the process of weeding out potentially psychotic scumbags, I'll live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 That's fine. I could give a crap about the woman herself. I do care about living someplace where the police violating the rights of a citizen is rationalized, tolerated, excused, and even applauded. That's fine. I was disappointed the video ended without her getting tazered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Bad things happen when you put yourself in the position for bad things to happen. Call it social darwinism. If a drunk women enters a rough bar wearing next to nothing, she's clearly put herself in a bad situation. If raped, is it just social darnwism or a crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 If a drunk women enters a rough bar wearing next to nothing, she's clearly put herself in a bad situation. If raped, is it just social darnwism or a crime? both. You like that answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I was at a a concert last year, and cops were in one of those little carts trying to drive through the crowds tailgating and walking around... The cop, being the supreme being that he is, was annoyed at the incovienance of having to wait for people to make room for him to drive through.. so, he beeped his horn loudly, with constant repetition to speed up this process.. Another concert grower, haning out by his car and annoyed by the incessant blaring, yelled out "Can you give us a break with the freaken horn"... The cop, unhappy with being questioned like this, jumped out his vehicle, threw the kid on the ground, pinned him on the hot cement with his knee in the back of his head, then cuffed him and stuck him in camden jail... Was that arrest worthy in your opinion? Yes. I hate hippies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 She is most certainly not his employer. Could she discipline him herself? Could she fire him herself? She pays taxes into a system that pays him, her importance ends there. My guess is the cops real employer gave some kind of public slap on the wrist and behind closed doors told him he completely understands what he did. They work for us, their job responsibilities don't extend to absolute power over us. Despite what many seem to think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 If a drunk women enters a rough bar wearing next to nothing, she's clearly put herself in a bad situation. If raped, is it just social darnwism or a crime? That'e about as dumb an example as I am fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 They work for us, their job responsibilities don't extend to absolute power over us. Despite what many seem to think Working 'for' us does not mean they are your employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yes. I hate hippies. I hope you run into a cop who hates fat people that mistakes your after meal glow for a smirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Working 'for' us does not mean they are your employer. Like it or not, NY state law allows for the video taping of police by citizens. Again, she was in her rights as a watchdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I hope you run into a cop who hates fat people that mistakes your after meal glow for a smirk Dude I carry a box of doughnuts everywhere I go. I'm freakin untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Point being, no one likes being annoyed and over scrutinized. Do you do everything by the book every moment of your work day? Everyone holds cops to a standard they themselves fail to live up to. Not saying cops should do whatever they want, just depicting them as just as human as you or I. The obvious difference that you're glossing over is that police officers are entrusted by the public to uphold the law and as such, are given the power to detain citizens, using force when deemed necessary. As such, oversight measures are put in place to ensure that these powers are not abused, including those internal to the police department, and with government agencies and civilian review boards. A citizen using a camera to film a perceived impropriety is just another level of the checks and balances that are necessary to limit abuses of power by police officers. While I don't agree with an antagonistic approach when interacting with law enforcement, as long as no threats are made toward the officer, there is no grounds for this woman to have been detained (based on what we know). Being an a$$hole isn't a crime (which is a good thing for post counts here, including mine). The fact that I am a civilian who is sitting behind a desk working for a publicly traded company makes your comparison moot, as I am (unfortunately) not afforded the power to use force and/or detain someone if I judge it to be necessary. As far as doing things by the book, my company monitors Internet usage and if they deem my actions to be in violation of their written policy, they are well within their rights to dismiss me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Like it or not, NY state law allows for the video taping of police by citizens. Again, she was in her rights as a watchdog Not once have I argued that her rights weren't violated. So, I'm not sure what you're driving at. My point is, if you annoy people with some authority over you, you shouldn't be surprised if they act in kind. Tit for tat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Not once have I argued that her rights weren't violated. So, I'm not sure what you're driving at. My point is, if you annoy people with some authority over you, you shouldn't be surprised if they act in kind. Tit for tat. I guess I don't udnerstand your point, as I'd agree with the bolded. I don't think anyone's surprised by this, you seem to be taking the tom shane idea that allowing them to trample on some civil liberties serve the greater good in some way. Which is what I disagree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 My point is, if you annoy people with some authority over you, you shouldn't be surprised if they act in kind. Ah, the old "mess with the bull" argument from Vernon v. Bender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I guess I don't udnerstand your point, as I'd agree with the bolded. I don't think anyone's surprised by this, you seem to be taking the tom shane idea that allowing them to trample on some civil liberties serve the greater good in some way. Which is what I disagree with I've said, the arrest was wrong, but ultimately justice was served as she was released. And, justice was served on both sides, because an obnoxious person had to spend a night in jail and got some parking tickets. I don't feel bad for her for a second. Call it schadenfreude if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 you seem to be taking the tom shane idea that allowing them to trample on some civil liberties serve the greater good in some way. It's part and parcel. There's a reason they carry a gun on their hip and not a copy of the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ah, the old "mess with the bull" argument from Vernon v. Bender. Don't know the specific example. But, that's actually how the real world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Don't know the specific example. But, that's actually how the real world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's part and parcel. There's a reason they carry a gun on their hip and not a copy of the Constitution. Functional illiteracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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