Cops arrest women for filming them

[CTM]

Ah, the slippery slope!

ha, yep!, and we've discussed in the past how you are very aware of it (for good reason) on other matters

[slats]

The whole point is, most people who end up behind bars, end up there for a reason. Even if it's not the best legal reason, and even if it's unjust. It's not usually the guy who wasn't acting like a dickhead who gets arrested.

No, the whole point is that people should only wind up behind bars if they've actually broken the law. People should not be arrested for looking at a cop the wrong way.

The police don't have the right to make the arrest portrayed in that video. And yet that's a right you seem willing to not only concede, but actually approve of.

I'm not going to get behind the idea that people need to be extra sweet around the police because if they're not, the police can and should arrest them. Or taser them, I believe you said. IMHO, it's up to the police to obey the law in that situation. The woman with the camera has probably not been trained to deal with police, but the police are trained to deal with the public. Then they're paid to put that training to work every day. They need to more effectively determine what is and is not a actual threat, and behave accordingly. Recognizing that this woman was video taping them should have led a clever cop to do their job completely by the book and get the hell out of there.

[ZachEY]

ha, yep!, and we've discussed in the past how you are very aware of it (for good reason) on other matters

Yerp!

Can't wait to marry my goat.

[ZachEY]

No, the whole point is that people should only wind up behind bars if they've actually broken the law. People should not be arrested for looking at a cop the wrong way.

The police don't have the right to make the arrest portrayed in that video. And yet that's a right you seem willing to not only concede, but actually approve of.

I'm not going to get behind the idea that people need to be extra sweet around the police because if they're not, the police can and should arrest them. Or taser them, I believe you said. IMHO, it's up to the police to obey the law in that situation. The woman with the camera has probably not been trained to deal with police, but the police are trained to deal with the public. Then they're paid to put that training to work every day. They need to more effectively determine what is and is not a actual threat, and behave accordingly. Recognizing that this woman was video taping them should have led a clever cop to do their job completely by the book and get the hell out of there.

People shouldn't have taken larger mortgages than they could afford.

People with box cutters shouldn't have been allowed on planes on September 11th.

Innocent children shouldn't die.

Natural disasters shouldn't occur.

Husband's shouldn't cheat on their wives.

Trains shouldn't run off schedule.

Lots of things in life 'shouldn't happen', and yet, they still do. That's the way the world works. And I didn't say I approve of the arrest. But rather, I approve of the fact that sometimes when you put yourself in a position for something bad to happen, that bad thing actually does happen. And, since no one was really hurt, I'll enjoy the schadenfreude.

EDIT: And I didn't say that the cop *should* have tasered the woman, just that I'd have enjoyed the video more if he did.

[slats]

People shouldn't have taken larger mortgages than they could afford.

People with box cutters shouldn't have been allowed on planes on September 11th.

Innocent children shouldn't die.

Natural disasters shouldn't occur.

Husband's shouldn't cheat on their wives.

Trains shouldn't run off schedule.

Lots of things in life 'shouldn't happen', and yet, they still do. That's the way the world works. And I didn't say I approve of the arrest. But rather, I approve of the fact that sometimes when you put yourself in a position for something bad to happen, that bad thing actually does happen. And, since no one was really hurt, I'll enjoy the schadenfreude.

EDIT: And I didn't say that the cop *should* have tasered the woman, just that I'd have enjoyed the video more if he did.

I have no problem rooting for some sort of karmic interference, but I'll always have a problem when it involves people in authority abusing their power to accomplish it.

[The Crusher]

I could get a DVT in my leg and die if it shakes loose and travels up to lungs/heart... the cops putting thier life on the line stuff is soo exxagerrated, and certainly doens't give them the right to lord over innocent people

Take an aspirin and get your fat azz outside. We will wait for you.

[T0mShane]

Ah, the old "mess with the bull" argument from Vernon v. Bender.

It's all fun and games until everybody's a Bender when all you want is one Vernon.

[T0mShane]

The day you think you're being as courteous as humanly possible and still find yourself behind bars for no reason that you can understand, maybe you'll have a different attitude (not to imply that I have). But giving this sort of implicit permission to the police to go beyond the bounds of their legal and legitimate authority is a start down that path.

There is no realistic scenario, short of running across some psychotic Federali, in which this would happen, and implying that acting in compliance with a reasonable demand of an officer somehow promotes the existence of a fascist police state is a little extreme. This is demonization of police in general. Particularly as it relates to this video, if she even remotely complied with a simple request--during an arrest, mind you--she has no issues. You can't watch that video and say that she's not instigating. Just as she has a right to film that cop, that cop also has a right to secure his safety and that of his fellow officers. What we, from behind our laptops, call an abuse of power, I'd imagine a cop who has been in similar situations would call a necessary step toward getting home at the end of his shift.

[kelticwizard]

if she even remotely complied with a simple request--during an arrest, mind you--she has no issues. You can't watch that video and say that she's not instigating.

Huh? Are you watching the same video I am?

She's 15 to 20 feet away from them during the entire arrest. At no time whatsoever was she in any position to interfere with that arrest at all. The only time the cop was any closer was when he walked away from the car toward her to slap the cuffs on her!

If the law was written that the police have a right to demand onlookers to go to a designated area during an arrest, then the policeman might have a point. But the law only says that the onlooker must comply with a request to stop interfering with the officer-and from 15-20 feet away, she plainly wasn't doing that.

While the cop didn't mention filming at the moment he arrested her, (he mentioned it just before that), it is clear that he was planning to stretch the law against interference to get her to stop filming and go inside. He was too smart to say, "Go inside or I'll arrest you for filming", so he made it, "Go inside or I'll arrest you for failure to comply." No doubt the policeman thought the judge would give him the benefit of the doubt as to what constitued interference. Unfortunately for him, the video clearly showed his claims of interference were bogus.

PS: Please show me the point on the video at which Emily was "instigating" anything-you can use the time elapsed to reference it. I certainly didn't see it.

[kelticwizard]

I look forward to reading about this woman's lawsuit. You know that's coming.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that. This should be extremely interesting.

[Bleedin Green]

So if everyone gave inches everyday to people in power, how long before it's a mile? "Backing down" from your legal right only empowers him to continue pushing it with other people..

I backed down to a cop 1 time, when I was like 16 and he was questioning a group of us kids walking down the road to go play basketball. Apparently during his lecture he felt I was smirking and threatened to put me in the back of his car .. i caved and apologized.. i didn't get arrested, but I sure felt like sh*t about it for awhile. **** him.

Here's the problem, agreeing to a simple request IS NOT giving up freedoms. The only people who truly believe that are obnoxious pricks who feel the need to be difficult simply for the sake of being difficult. Not just with police, but in life with anyone, if somebody makes a simple request of you that you can't handle complying to simply because "you don't have to", there's no greater justice being served there, you're just an a$$hole, plain and simple. Is that illegal? No, of course not, but you've made your decisions and are going to get treated a certain way because of it. Unfortunately it some cases that means people will cross the line with how they treat you in response (e.g., this arrest), but that doesn't change the fact that you purposefully put yourself into that situation for no other reason than being difficult, and easily could've avoided the situation by not being so difficult, which is not equivalent to giving up all of your civil liberties, no matter how much anyone tries to pretend it is. As much as so many people these days thinks everything should be the way they want it at all times, the truth is everyone needs to make concessions and this concept that refusing to do so for someone because they are the police is some kind of fantastic stance and statement is just absurd.

[slats]

There is no realistic scenario, short of running across some psychotic Federali, in which this would happen, and implying that acting in compliance with a reasonable demand of an officer somehow promotes the existence of a fascist police state is a little extreme. This is demonization of police in general.

No it's not. Slippery slopes and all that.

Particularly as it relates to this video, if she even remotely complied with a simple request--during an arrest, mind you--she has no issues. You can't watch that video and say that she's not instigating. Just as she has a right to film that cop, that cop also has a right to secure his safety and that of his fellow officers. What we, from behind our laptops, call an abuse of power, I'd imagine a cop who has been in similar situations would call a necessary step toward getting home at the end of his shift.

Particularly as it relates to this video?

The cop had no reason to make his request. She had no reason to comply with it. She's a law abiding citizen completely within her rights. She moved off the sidewalk onto her lawn, and that was more than she needed to do. I don't care that she was instigating, she's allowed by law to instigate. And even that was minimal. She only spoke when spoken to. She had a camera. Despite the fact that the cop never told her to stop filming, that seemed to be her biggest crime. At the end of the video we know there were other witnesses the police weren't bothering with.

This woman never threatened their safety, and that is evidenced in the video when the cop placed her under arrest with ease. The cop tried to use that excuse to get her to do what he wanted her to do, but it was never really an issue.

[CTM]

Here's the problem, agreeing to a simple request IS NOT giving up freedoms. The only people who truly believe that are obnoxious pricks who feel the need to be difficult simply for the sake of being difficult. Not just with police, but in life with anyone, if somebody makes a simple request of you that you can't handle complying to simply because "you don't have to", there's no greater justice being served there, you're just an a$$hole, plain and simple. Is that illegal? No, of course not, but you've made your decisions and are going to get treated a certain way because of it. Unfortunately it some cases that means people will cross the line with how they treat you in response (e.g., this arrest), but that doesn't change the fact that you purposefully put yourself into that situation for no other reason than being difficult, and easily could've avoided the situation by not being so difficult, which is not equivalent to giving up all of your civil liberties, no matter how much anyone tries to pretend it is. As much as so many people these days thinks everything should be the way they want it at all times, the truth is everyone needs to make concessions and this concept that refusing to do so for someone because they are the police is some kind of fantastic stance and statement is just absurd.

It's not a simple request when her options were comply or go to jail. That's an order, and one he wasn't legally permitted to give.

It's amazing how this is lost on all of you guys. The video itself proves it wasn't a simple request

[RutgersJetFan]

Holy fallacy Batman, the camel's nose is out in full force in this thread.

[sirlancemehlot]

My point was cops do it countless times every single day without incident.. You act like they are in the front lines in a war.

If i had more time I'd look it up, but I'm willing to bet the average citizen is the victim of violent crime at a similiar rates to cops

Wow. huge disconnect here. It's not about being a victim of a violent crime or any related statistics. It's about being killed or wounded at work. It's about the threat of blood bourne pathogens like AIDS and Hep-C and bringing home lice and bedbugs and scabies to your family. It's about having to put on a Kevlar vest instead of a tie, and pack a gun instead of a briefcase. How many fistfights have you gotten into at work? how many guns have you confiscated? Ever had a knife pulled on you? Ever had to chase an armed man down the hallway from your cubicle? At least once a month I handle a medrescue call where someone is covered in vomit or excrement. How often have you had someone crap on you desk?. I don't even bring my shoes home anymore. I've been stuck by a needle searching a junkie and spattered with blood from an HIV infected woman in a fistfight. AIDS cocktails and blood tests. Big fun. I was also bitten by a pitbull. Tetanus shot. Big fun. High-speed chase? Check. Three of them. Co workers and friends killed and/or cri[ppled...check. One walks witha permanent limp. one is gone following a collision with a drunk. Friends shot? Check. Two of them. Both survived. Both returned to work. Co-workers in a gunfight? Check...one had his partner die in his lap in a previous department. Sooo....You sir...are full of crap. Consider: Police deaths by gunfire following the country-wide layoffs of municipal officers is up 20% over last year according to ODMP.org. Newark, Paterson and Camden have all seen dramatic spikes in crime, particularly violent and gang-related crime, following heavy layoffs. Back up your opinions with facts and I promise I'll take them more seriously. Continue to compare being a cop to having a blood clot in your leg and its hard to give your opinions consideratioin.

[The Crusher]

Wow. huge disconnect here. It's not about being a victim of a violent crime or any related statistics. It's about being killed or wounded at work. It's about the threat of blood bourne pathogens like AIDS and Hep-C and bringing home lice and bedbugs and scabies to your family. It's about having to put on a Kevlar vest instead of a tie, and pack a gun instead of a briefcase. How many fistfights have you gotten into at work? how many guns have you confiscated? Ever had a knife pulled on you? Ever had to chase an armed man down the hallway from your cubicle? At least once a month I handle a medrescue call where someone is covered in vomit or excrement. How often have you had someone crap on you desk?. I don't even bring my shoes home anymore. I've been stuck by a needle searching a junkie and spattered with blood from an HIV infected woman in a fistfight. AIDS cocktails and blood tests. Big fun. I was also bitten by a pitbull. Tetanus shot. Big fun. High-speed chase? Check. Three of them. Co workers and friends killed and/or cri[ppled...check. One walks witha permanent limp. one is gone following a collision with a drunk. Friends shot? Check. Two of them. Both survived. Both returned to work. Co-workers in a gunfight? Check...one had his partner die in his lap in a previous department. Sooo....You sir...are full of crap. Consider: Police deaths by gunfire following the country-wide layoffs of municipal officers is up 20% over last year according to ODMP.org. Newark, Paterson and Camden have all seen dramatic spikes in crime, particularly violent and gang-related crime, following heavy layoffs. Back up your opinions with facts and I promise I'll take them more seriously. Continue to compare being a cop to having a blood clot in your leg and its hard to give your opinions consideratioin.

Poppy cock copper...

Two years ago I was working and tripped on an electric cord and landed on one of my assistants and crushed him to death. Took three power washing sessions just to get his crushed carcas out of my butt crack. I laugh at your SUPPOSED Danger.

Bed buggs? Scabies? We keep them as Pets at Cassa Crusher. Ha!!!!!!!!!!

Kevlar vest? A gun? Whatever!! I wear sweatpants and carry a fanny pack with two rottesarie chickens, gravy pouch (microwaveable) and two diet cokes. You don;t know what mean streets are dawg!!!!

Fistfights at work? I sprained my wrist once trying to pull my zipper up when I wore normal pants back in the day. You have no idea.

A knife pulled on me? Haaaaaa!!! I use a drywall trowel as a buitter knife at the office. In your face!!!

Tetanus shot? Once? You pussy!! Everyone of my employees have had numerous tetanus shots after getting bit trying to clean my lunch off of my deak a litte too soon. I have a 2 for 1 deal with a local walk-in clinic. For these kinda things.

Man you think you got it bad....

[CTM]

Wow. huge disconnect here. It's not about being a victim of a violent crime or any related statistics. It's about being killed or wounded at work. It's about the threat of blood bourne pathogens like AIDS and Hep-C and bringing home lice and bedbugs and scabies to your family. It's about having to put on a Kevlar vest instead of a tie, and pack a gun instead of a briefcase. How many fistfights have you gotten into at work? how many guns have you confiscated? Ever had a knife pulled on you? Ever had to chase an armed man down the hallway from your cubicle? At least once a month I handle a medrescue call where someone is covered in vomit or excrement. How often have you had someone crap on you desk?. I don't even bring my shoes home anymore. I've been stuck by a needle searching a junkie and spattered with blood from an HIV infected woman in a fistfight. AIDS cocktails and blood tests. Big fun. I was also bitten by a pitbull. Tetanus shot. Big fun. High-speed chase? Check. Three of them. Co workers and friends killed and/or cri[ppled...check. One walks witha permanent limp. one is gone following a collision with a drunk. Friends shot? Check. Two of them. Both survived. Both returned to work. Co-workers in a gunfight? Check...one had his partner die in his lap in a previous department. Sooo....You sir...are full of crap. Consider: Police deaths by gunfire following the country-wide layoffs of municipal officers is up 20% over last year according to ODMP.org. Newark, Paterson and Camden have all seen dramatic spikes in crime, particularly violent and gang-related crime, following heavy layoffs. Back up your opinions with facts and I promise I'll take them more seriously. Continue to compare being a cop to having a blood clot in your leg and its hard to give your opinions consideratioin.

First off, that was tongue in cheek. Secondly I don't see the point in engauging in a serious debate about this. You are already defensive and obviously a lot of people are sympathetic..

I've also acknowledged that I wasn't discussing being a cop somewhere like Camden, I'm talking about Joe Schmoe cop from suburban Fatsburg, USA

[sirlancemehlot]

Poppy cock copper...

Two years ago I was working and tripped on an electric cord and landed on one of my assistants and crushed him to death. Took three power washing sessions just to get his crushed carcas out of my butt crack. I laugh at your SUPPOSED Danger.

Bed buggs? Scabies? We keep them as Pets at Cassa Crusher. Ha!!!!!!!!!!

Kevlar vest? A gun? Whatever!! I wear sweatpants and carry a fanny pack with two rottesarie chickens, gravy pouch (microwaveable) and two diet cokes. You don;t know what mean streets are dawg!!!!

Fistfights at work? I sprained my wrist once trying to pull my zipper up when I wore normal pants back in the day. You have no idea.

A knife pulled on me? Haaaaaa!!! I use a drywall trowel as a buitter knife at the office. In your face!!!

Tetanus shot? Once? You pussy!! Everyone of my employees have had numerous tetanus shots after getting bit trying to clean my lunch off of my deak a litte too soon. I have a 2 for 1 deal with a local walk-in clinic. For these kinda things.

Man you think you got it bad....

hehe had to hit the + on that one. The drywall trowell butter knife...that's art right there.

[CTM]

Holy fallacy Batman, the camel's nose is out in full force in this thread.

The progression of events from A to Z as a sound bit of logic is a fallacy in that it can't be proven, but that doesn't completely dismiss it as a debate point to be considered. As you also cannot prove that complete subjugation in cases like these does not have some broader impact either.

[sirlancemehlot]

First off, that was tongue in cheek. Secondly I don't see the point in engauging in a serious debate about this. You are already defensive and obviously a lot of people are sympathetic..

I've also acknowledged that I wasn't discussing being a cop somewhere like Camden, I'm talking about Joe Schmoe cop from suburban Fatsburg, USA

I am defensive on this matter. Because I know what's real and what the perceptions are. Its hard to be lumped into a generality where so many think I became a cop because i was picked on in HS. i was never picked on. And I was never a bully. And i don't mistreat the public--quite the opposite, I do everything I can to be helpful because that's my nature. Inside every blue uniform is an individual human being with strengths and weaknesses. And there are plenty of dangerous and unsavory situations in Fatsburg, USA. Simply driving fast on a highway kills dozens of cops every year, and badly injures hundreds. There are dogs in Fatsburg, there are burglaries in Fatsburg, there are sick people in Fatsburg and there are mentally ill in Fatsburg. There are homes so disgusting your clothes smell for hours after you leave them. There are neglected children and strung-out parents. Junkies drunks and pillheads. No, not all cops work in Camden. But all cops deal with the worst of society all day every day. and they all see horrible things throughout their careers...even rich towns have bloody car accidents and spousal abuse.

[Barcs]

Yeah, I'm a sheep because it's not worth a night in jail and being targeted for tickets to get some low quality video of a cop.

There are intelligent people and there are idiots.

Intelligent people do cost benefit analysis of their actions and decide if the risk is worth the reward. Idiots do not.

And you have made it abundantly clear which you belong to. Enjoy being harassed for unnecessary principles.

No, you're a sheep because if your friend was getting his rights violated you'd probably let it go and when the officer told you to jump, you'd ask "How high?". If somebody sees an injustice or abuse of power going on they absolutely should video tape it and try to stop it. The woman thought the cop was profiling and wanted to get it on camera. Obnoxious or not, she has every right to stand up for herself and the person being wronged. You shouldn't be a pussy, just because you're afraid of cops and being arrested. What if it was your family member or girlfriend having their rights abused? Stand up and FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS. That's what America's all about, and it's the only way things move forward here. What would have happened if Rodney King wasn't video taped? He'd probably be spending the rest of his life in jail for attacking police, when in reality it was the exact opposite.

[RutgersJetFan]

The progression of events from A to Z as a sound bit of logic is a fallacy in that it can't be proven, but that doesn't completely dismiss it as a debate point to be considered.

Yes Glenn, yes it does.

As you also cannot prove that complete subjugation in cases like these does not have some broader impact either.

I can't prove you wrong, therefore you're right? Dos per dos.

[T0mShane]

What would have happened if Rodney King wasn't video taped?

Mrs. King would have been spared a few tire tracks across her back?

[RutgersJetFan]

Mrs. King would have been spared a few tire tracks across her back?

[ZachEY]

No, you're a sheep because if your friend was getting his rights violated you'd probably let it go and when the officer told you to jump, you'd ask "How high?". If somebody sees an injustice or abuse of power going on they absolutely should video tape it and try to stop it. The woman thought the cop was profiling and wanted to get it on camera. Obnoxious or not, she has every right to stand up for herself and the person being wronged. You shouldn't be a pussy, just because you're afraid of cops and being arrested. What if it was your family member or girlfriend having their rights abused? Stand up and FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS. That's what America's all about, and it's the only way things move forward here. What would have happened if Rodney King wasn't video taped? He'd probably be spending the rest of his life in jail for attacking police, when in reality it was the exact opposite.

If my friend were getting arrested, I'd be on the phone with his lawyer, someone who could actually help, as opposed to annoying the cops and getting low quality video tape. Because, as an intelligent person, I know that I can only make the situation worse, but if I follow the proper channels, I can make it better.

But hey, if it were your friend, at least he'd have company in his cell.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Glad to see this thread progressing so well! It's pretty obvious there is ZERO chance of either side making the other see their way. This thread is dead.

[Bleedin Green]

Mrs. King would have been spared a few tire tracks across her back?

Rodney King was a great man, most certainly not a strung out, drunk driving, cop attacking, robbing, hit and runner. Definitely not.

[Bleedin Green]

Glad to see this thread progressing so well! It's pretty obvious there is ZERO chance of either side making the other see their way. This thread is dead.

Which is different from every other thread on this board how exactly?

[FloridaJetsFan]

Which is different from every other thread on this board how exactly?

Ehhh, my bad ...

[The Crusher]

If my friend were getting arrested, I'd be on the phone with his lawyer, someone who could actually help, as opposed to annoying the cops and getting low quality video tape. Because, as an intelligent person, I know that I can only make the situation worse, but if I follow the proper channels, I can make it better.

But hey, if it were your friend, at least he'd have company in his cell.

What a sheep. You would actually you's your head instead of your mouth? EY we all should be excited about the direction your going in. Once again well done.

[Bob]

I bet the cops of the world can hardly sit down, with all the hickeys some of you are leaving on their asses.

[JohnnyHector]

If my friend were getting arrested, I'd be on the phone with his lawyer,

Man, talk about pushing stereotypes in this thread...

[CTM]

Yes Glenn, yes it does.

I can't prove you wrong, therefore you're right? Dos per dos.

No Doug it doesn't .. And that's not what I said, I said you can't dismiss it solely on the basis of it being unprovable. There's progression in most things.

Not to mention that the crux oF the point is the cops actions were not legal... Arguing about slippery slopes is a a personal reasoning for my own belief that you shouldn't let your rights be violated which was in response to those saying it's nit worth it to be so principled.. It wasn't offered as empirical proof... Congrats, you proved my opinion was indeed an opinion

[slats]

What a sheep. You would actually you's your head instead of your mouth? EY we all should be excited about the direction your going in. Once again well done.

Dude, you know I love you. And I know that grammar is not your strong suit, and I don't care. I expect you to mix up there and their, or your and you're. It's all good. But you's for use? That's absolutely incredible. Completely original. Never in a million years saw that one coming.

Okay, carry on.

[sirlancemehlot]

Dude, you know I love you. And I know that grammar is not your strong suit, and I don't care. I expect you to mix up there and their, or your and you're. It's all good. But you's for use? That's absolutely incredible. Completely original. Never in a million years saw that one coming.

Okay, carry on.

Grammar police. Don't taze him bro!