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This weekend's starting Quarterbacks


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#1 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

I am continually told that you have to "luck out" and be very bad in order to be very fortunate in drafting in a prime spot and get your franchise quarterback. The following is the draft order that this week's quarterbacks were selected:

Manning 1st
Ryan 3rd
Flacco 18th
Rogers 24th
Kapernick 36th
Wilson 75th
Schaub 90th
Brady 199th

With the notable exceptions of Manning and Ryan, The NYJ could have drafted any of these quarterbacks. The NYJ WERE NOT and have not been shut out of any QB opportunities. There ARE QB's that are drafted that are not considered blue chip, and yet succeed.

How does that happen?

-Astute personnel scouting and recognizing what you want in a qb and how it fits your club
-Dedication to building the position of QB on your club, and not being happy with status quo (the Packers drafted Rogers, with Favre on the club)
-Committing the proper talent to develop your QB in your mold

The Jets have not been "unlucky" in not sucking enough to take a no brain franchise QB. The Jets have been dreadful in evaluating prospect QB's, have failed in proving proper development, and think that the position is secondary to "defense" and ground and pound".

That mindset and proficiency have to change.
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#2 jetscanes331

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

I am continually told that you have to "luck out" and be very bad in order to be very fortunate in drafting in a prime spot and get your franchise quarterback. The following is the draft order that this week's quarterbacks were selected:

Manning 1st
Ryan 3rd
Flacco 18th
Rogers 24th
Kapernick 36th
Wilson 75th
Schaub 90th
Brady 199th

With the notable exceptions of Manning and Ryan, The NYJ could have drafted any of these quarterbacks. The NYJ WERE NOT and have not been shut out of any QB opportunities. There ARE QB's that are drafted that are not considered blue chip, and yet succeed.


Jets had the best shot at Manning out of all of them, technically.
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#3 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

Jets had the best shot at Manning out of all of them, technically.


The current Jets seem to have neither the inclination or desire to develop or improve the QB position. They treat it as a leper and something that is a necessary evil.

I wonder where that direction comes from?
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#4 pedro55

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

The current Jets seem to have neither the inclination or desire to develop or improve the QB position. They treat it as a leper and something that is a necessary evil.

I wonder where that direction comes from?


It's not just this regime. Mangini signed Favre with no backup plan for the future...knowing Favre was retiring every year at that point and probably wouldn't stick around. Herm stuck with Pennington, a guy who was always hurt, and never had any legit backups. And even saying all that, the Jets drafted Pennington & Sanchez in the first round. They drafted Clemens in the second round. Either they made bad decisions, got unlucky, or they just had no clue how to coach a QB to become better.

Like the OP said, the Packers drafted Rodgers when Favre was still playing. The Colts dumped Manning for Luck. Like it or not, that took a lot of balls. If the Colts go 3-13 this year and the Luck doesn't live up to the hype, that new regime is killed. Especially considering the season Manning has had. Sometimes there has to be a legit plan for the future in place. This year, next year, a few years from now.

I'm not sure the Jets ever really have a plan.
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#5 Irish Jet

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

And what?

Sanchez spent two of his four years in this ****ing group ffs.
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#6 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

I am continually told that you have to "luck out" and be very bad in order to be very fortunate in drafting in a prime spot and get your franchise quarterback. The following is the draft order that this week's quarterbacks were selected:

Manning 1st
Ryan 3rd
Flacco 18th
Rogers 24th
Kapernick 36th
Wilson 75th
Schaub 90th
Brady 199th

With the notable exceptions of Manning and Ryan, The NYJ could have drafted any of these quarterbacks. The NYJ WERE NOT and have not been shut out of any QB opportunities. There ARE QB's that are drafted that are not considered blue chip, and yet succeed.

How does that happen?

-Astute personnel scouting and recognizing what you want in a qb and how it fits your club
-Dedication to building the position of QB on your club, and not being happy with status quo (the Packers drafted Rogers, with Favre on the club)
-Committing the proper talent to develop your QB in your mold

The Jets have not been "unlucky" in not sucking enough to take a no brain franchise QB. The Jets have been dreadful in evaluating prospect QB's, have failed in proving proper development, and think that the position is secondary to "defense" and ground and pound".

That mindset and proficiency have to change.


ALL REX'S FAULT
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#7 Bleedin Green

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

Since when does playing in the divisional round say a damn thing about how good or bad a QB is? The Jets had two QBs who have played in the divisional round (one of whom twice made it to the championship round) on their team this season and it didn't do sh*t for them. That alone should prove how laughable how using this as the measurement for success. There is a massive difference between making it past the wild card in the playoffs with a second rate QB and being able to accomplish the ultimate goal with that same guy, which is to win a Super Bowl. By your means of evaluation, a mere two years ago the Jets should have been praised for their handling of the QB situation.

Nobody is arguing the Jets couldn't be far, far better with any number of QBs out there, but the point is that there's very, very few elite QBs in the NFL, and most of the guys on that list you provided do not qualify as such. Of those that are, one was drafted #1 overall, one was nearly drafted at #1 overall and then after falling, got to spend 3 years on the bench learning behind a future HOF, and the last, well... is Tom Brady. It's not that the Jets don't deserve to be completely blasted for their absolutely god awful handling of the QB position, because they certainly do, but let's not act like you can pluck a future HOF QB out of the draft without breaking a sweat, or that there's no great difference between having a future HOFer and having a mediocre starter good enough to not keep their team from missing the playoffs.
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By day he's the (not so) mild-mannered Bleedin Green, but by night...

#8 JiF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

The current Jets seem to have neither the inclination or desire to develop or improve the QB position. They treat it as a leper and something that is a necessary evil.

I wonder where that direction comes from?


This is bull sh*t and you're absolutely ridiculous with this hatred lately. The Jets have failed in finding a QB since Namath. Whether it was taking Ken O'Brien instead of Marino or any other draft day blunder that we as Jets fans have come accustomed to. This is not exclusive to Rex Ryan.

Rex's first move as a HC was drafting what he thought was going to be the QB of the future (a player you used to defend). Though it didnt work out, it indicates that he puts plenty of stock into the position. Since then, all they've done with drafts and FA is tried to give him talent. Whether they failed or its just Sanchez sucks is another debate.

Parcells whiffed on Pennington, Mangini whiffed on Clemens, Coslet whiffed on Nagle, on and on and on.

Luck plays a huge factor in finding a QB. Probably the biggest factor involved.
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#9 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

Since when does playing in the divisional round say a damn thing about how good or bad a QB is? The Jets had two QBs who have played in the divisional round (one of whom twice made it to the championship round) on their team this season and it didn't do sh*t for them. That alone should prove how laughable how using this as the measurement for success. There is a massive difference between making it past the wild card in the playoffs with a second rate QB and being able to accomplish the ultimate goal with that same guy, which is to win a Super Bowl. By your means of evaluation, a mere two years ago the Jets should have been praised for their handling of the QB situation.

Nobody is arguing the Jets couldn't be far, far better with any number of QBs out there, but the point is that there's very, very few elite QBs in the NFL, and most of the guys on that list you provided do not qualify as such. Of those that are, one was drafted #1 overall, one was nearly drafted at #1 overall and then after falling, got to spend 3 years on the bench learning behind a future HOF, and the last, well... is Tom Brady. It's not that the Jets don't deserve to be completely blasted for their absolutely god awful handling of the QB position, because they certainly do, but let's not act like you can pluck a future HOF QB out of the draft without breaking a sweat, or that there's no great difference between having a future HOFer and having a mediocre starter good enough to not keep their team from missing the playoffs.


Would you take any of the QBs in that list over what the Jets have?
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#10 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

This is bull sh*t and you're absolutely ridiculous with this hatred lately. The Jets have failed in finding a QB since Namath. Whether it was taking Ken O'Brien instead of Marino or any other draft day blunder that we as Jets fans have come accustomed to. This is not exclusive to Rex Ryan.

Rex's first move as a HC was drafting what he thought was going to be the QB of the future (a player you used to defend). Though it didnt work out, it indicates that he puts plenty of stock into the position. Since then, all they've done with drafts and FA is tried to give him talent. Whether they failed or its just Sanchez sucks is another debate.

Parcells whiffed on Pennington, Mangini whiffed on Clemens, Coslet whiffed on Nagle, on and on and on.

Luck plays a huge factor in finding a QB. Probably the biggest factor involved.


Of come on JiF. Everyone knows that when you draft a top 5 QB and he busts, its all the coaches fault for 1) Not developing him better, and/or 2) Not drafting ANOTHER QB to replace him. It has nothing to do with the GM who buys the groceries or the QB having dumb brains. It's all about the HC's "vision" for a franchise.
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#11 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

Would you take any of the QBs in that list over what the Jets have?


I'd take a retarded monkey over what the Jets have. Doesn't mean you are capable of grasping BG's point.
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#12 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

Luck plays a huge factor in finding a QB.


Thinking like that leads franchises to continued ruin.

We suck because we are unlucky-LOL
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#13 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:54 PM

Luck plays a huge factor in finding a QB. Probably the biggest factor involved.


In many cases yeah. I don't think the Seahawks knew what they were getting in Russell Wilson, or they wouldn't have spent big bucks on Flynn.

Even though Kaepernick was Harbaugh's hand-picked QB, it sure took them a long time to thrust him into the starting role over the immortal Alex Smith. Have to imagine they were pleasantly surprised, and doubt that they "knew it all along".

Peyton's injury came at the perfect time for the Colts. Tank at the right time, insert greatest QB prospect since Elway. F*** them.

The Packers had Rodgers just fall and fall and fall for them in the 1st round. Granted, they didn't HAVE to take him with Favre in tow. This tells me they legitimately do have really good people running that franchise, which we've known all along, and at least for them, not AS much luck was involved.

Ryan, Flacco, Schaub....not much needs to be said about them. Ryan was a top 5 pick and no-brainer. Flacco was a 1st rounder who has performed at about the level you'd expect for his draft grade. Schaub was a 3rd rounder and exceeded his draft position but is by no means special. And Brady's a gay.
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#14 pedro55

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Since when does playing in the divisional round say a damn thing about how good or bad a QB is? The Jets had two QBs who have played in the divisional round (one of whom twice made it to the championship round) on their team this season and it didn't do sh*t for them. That alone should prove how laughable how using this as the measurement for success. There is a massive difference between making it past the wild card in the playoffs with a second rate QB and being able to accomplish the ultimate goal with that same guy, which is to win a Super Bowl. By your means of evaluation, a mere two years ago the Jets should have been praised for their handling of the QB situation.

Nobody is arguing the Jets couldn't be far, far better with any number of QBs out there, but the point is that there's very, very few elite QBs in the NFL, and most of the guys on that list you provided do not qualify as such. Of those that are, one was drafted #1 overall, one was nearly drafted at #1 overall and then after falling, got to spend 3 years on the bench learning behind a future HOF, and the last, well... is Tom Brady. It's not that the Jets don't deserve to be completely blasted for their absolutely god awful handling of the QB position, because they certainly do, but let's not act like you can pluck a future HOF QB out of the draft without breaking a sweat, or that there's no great difference between having a future HOFer and having a mediocre starter good enough to not keep their team from missing the playoffs.


It's not just about hoping to have one good year. It's about having a team who can contend year in and year out.
I'm not a big fan of Flacco, but the guy has made it to the playoffs every year he's been in the NFL, and he's been to 2 AFC Championship games. And the Ravens have been a contender for 5 years now. And they'll probably be a contender for a few more. It's not just about the QB, it's about the regime who knows how to build a contender.


I'm not sold on Schaub. And you are right, last year he wasn't even playing in the playoffs due to injuries. Matt Ryan has never won a playoff game. But the Falcon's have been a contender every year since he was drafted. And we're talking about a team who rarely ever had back to back winning seasons in it's history.
Kapernick, WIlson, etc who knows.
They are young and can suck next season. But Wilson looks like a future franchise QB. Sanchez never looked like Wilson.

The problem the Jets seem to have is they always get worse. The Herm years seemed filled with potential. But the team just got worse and Herm got worse. Mangini started out with lots of hope. They made some nice pick ups, but then they never improved and choked away the last season with Favre and that unreported injury. Rex comes in and they had a nice run in the playoffs, but again, the team just got worse.

What seems to happen is the Jets taste a little success, which masks all the real problems the team has, they don't ever deal with those issues or improve on those issues, the staff become arrogant, and in the end the Jets always seem to wind up that 8-8 team that has to start over.
It's almost like deja vu. I don't know how they improve it, Woody sell the team, who knows.

My thoughts on Rex are either fire him or give him a chance to build a winner. This "scape goat one year" is pointless. He shouldn't get a 5 year extension, but there is no point in keeping a HC if you take away all his rights and responsibilities and essentially tell him next year we are rebuilding the team, and if you don't win, you're fired. I hope thats more on the Jets fans who hate Rex, over Woody. If Rex flat out stinks next season, then yes, but if it's one of those rebuilding but the team looks good at times, then there is some hope. Because really, firing Rex and bringing in some of the guys who were hired this season as HC doesn't really sell me on a winning future.
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#15 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

In many cases yeah. I don't think the Seahawks knew what they were getting in Russell Wilson, or they wouldn't have spent big bucks on Flynn.

Even though Kaepernick was Harbaugh's hand-picked QB, it sure took them a long time to thrust him into the starting role over the immortal Alex Smith. Have to imagine they were pleasantly surprised, and doubt that they "knew it all along".

Peyton's injury came at the perfect time for the Colts. Tank at the right time, insert greatest QB prospect since Elway. F*** them.

The Packers had Rodgers just fall and fall and fall for them in the 1st round. Granted, they didn't HAVE to take him with Favre in tow. This tells me they legitimately do have really good people running that franchise, which we've known all along, and at least for them, not AS much luck was involved.

Ryan, Flacco, Schaub....not much needs to be said about them. Ryan was a top 5 pick and no-brainer. Flacco was a 1st rounder who has performed at about the level you'd expect for his draft grade. Schaub was a 3rd rounder and exceeded his draft position but is by no means special. And Brady's a gay.


The Jets have to be the unluckiest franchise ever. Simply cursed. It can't be because of decisions
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#16 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

Thinking like that leads franchises to continued ruin.

We suck because we are unlucky-LOL


We know that certain teams are more capable than finding gems than others. Doesn't mean luck isn't involved. How many times do we hear about the draft being a "crapshoot"?

All 32 teams in the NFL passed on one of the greatest QB's of all-time for 5 rounds before the Patriots got him. And it took a freak injury for him to get his shot.

That being said, I think we need to improve our odds by drafting a pair of QB's in this year's draft. Never before has finding that next great QB been more important.
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#17 Damaged89

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Thinking like that leads franchises to continued ruin.

We suck because we are unlucky-LOL



No, we suck because we're unlucky AND the organization has historically been run by clownshoes dipsh*ts who couldn't be trusted to run a banana stand. Just because the second part was, currently is, and will continue to be true until the end of time doesn't mean that luck doesn't play a part.

We are one meaningless week 17 overtime victory against the ****ing Chiefs from having Matt Ryan in green and white. Parcells somehow scared Peyton Manning back to school for a year. Darth Vader resigned as HC of NYJ and promptly lucked into Brady. Luck played a part in all that.
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#18 Jetsfan80

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

The Jets have to be the unluckiest franchise ever. Simply cursed. It can't be because of decisions


It's a combination of poor decisions AND luck. The fact that we've been in a division dominated by the same HC/QB combo, despite said HC being a flop in Cleveland and spurning us after 1 day as our HC, and said QB being a 6th round draft choice, is absolutely unlucky.

The fact that Mike Tannenbaum signed Mark Sanchez to an extension? Horrid management.

Edited by Jetsfan80, 11 January 2013 - 04:00 PM.

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#19 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

The fact that Mike Tannenbaum signed Mark Sanchez to an extension? Horrid management.


I would say it was horrible player evaluation, after the fact he is in the organization. The Jets can't even self scout.
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#20 pedro55

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

In many cases yeah. I don't think the Seahawks knew what they were getting in Russell Wilson, or they wouldn't have spent big bucks on Flynn.

Even though Kaepernick was Harbaugh's hand-picked QB, it sure took them a long time to thrust him into the starting role over the immortal Alex Smith. Have to imagine they were pleasantly surprised, and doubt that they "knew it all along".

Peyton's injury came at the perfect time for the Colts. Tank at the right time, insert greatest QB prospect since Elway. F*** them.

The Packers had Rodgers just fall and fall and fall for them in the 1st round. Granted, they didn't HAVE to take him with Favre in tow. This tells me they legitimately do have really good people running that franchise, which we've known all along, and at least for them, not AS much luck was involved.

Ryan, Flacco, Schaub....not much needs to be said about them. Ryan was a top 5 pick and no-brainer. Flacco was a 1st rounder who has performed at about the level you'd expect for his draft grade. Schaub was a 3rd rounder and exceeded his draft position but is by no means special. And Brady's a gay.


I think the Packers also showed how a winning organization operates. They never had to use Rodgers. Favre had a few more seasons, if not more in him. He made his mistakes, but the team went to the NFC Championship game and almost made it to the super bowl. So picking Rodgers over Favre at that point was a huge huge huge gamble. And the Packers, a team who has had very few losing seasons since the mid 1990's, wound up 6-10 with Rodgers. And Favre had a decent year with the Jets and was injured. The next year the VIkings were one of the top teams and Favre made it to another NFC Championship game.

You could say the same thing about the Colts. They could have hung onto Manning, let Luck sit in the wings for a few seasons. And the Colts probably win 13 or 14 games with Manning this year and they wind up as the #1 seed. The same scenario could play out for a few years. But then Manning retires and the Colts are stuck in limbo. Same with the Packers. Sometimes it's not just about luck. Sometimes teams actually have plans and balls to make decisions that might not be popular.

Hell years ago, the Chargers dumped Brees for Rivers. Brees won a super bow and has been great,l but Rivers was a pro bowl QB. And the joke that Rivers is a turnover machine now is funny. Rivers had 15 Interceptions. Brees had 19 interceptions Except people don't seem to look at that. Going further back, The 49ers dumped Montana for Young. There is no guarantee it would have worked out. It's easy to say certain things after the fact, but teams actually have to make those choices. They have to take that chance.

The Jets stuck with Pennington for years and years knowing he was never going to be the guy who could throw 4 TDS in a game at will, never a guy who was going to stay healthy. And they never drafted somebody to replace him. Some teams just seem to know what they are doing. The Jets seem to stay in limbo regime after regime.
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#21 JiF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

Thinking like that leads franchises to continued ruin.

We suck because we are unlucky-LOL


Luck is a huge factor any way you look at it brother. The Colts happen to have the 2 worst season of their last 20 years the same year that the best QB prospects of our life time are coming out? Brady gets put into a game because his started almost died. If the Seahawks knew what they had in Wilson so they waited til the 3rd round?

Sorry this one doesnt fit your Wrecks Ryan hate agenda.
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#22 jetscanes331

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

If the Seahawks knew what they had in Wilson so they waited til the 3rd round?


And traded for Matt Flynn and signed him to that huge deal.
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#23 bitonti

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

they just fired the guy who drafted Mark Sanchez. Milk was a bad choice. you should be happy.
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#24 Scott Dierking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

Luck is a huge factor any way you look at it brother. The Colts happen to have the 2 worst season of their last 20 years the same year that the best QB prospects of our life time are coming out? Brady gets put into a game because his started almost died. If the Seahawks knew what they had in Wilson so they waited til the 3rd round?

Sorry this one doesnt fit your Wrecks Ryan hate agenda.


It fits my "disorganization" agenda. If you want to ascribe that largely to Rex, you are probably sniffing in some of the right areas.

Luck is the residue of design. QB's can be, and have been drafted anywhere. The thing is, someone recognizes their possibilities. To say that someone "lucks out" is a tremendous disservice to good planning.

Dismiss it as luck, and you will continue to fail.

To di
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Originally Posted by Blackout™
LOL ignorance is bless.

#25 JFtoLong

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

they just fired the guy who drafted Mark Sanchez. Milk was a bad choice. you should be happy.


RYAN GOT FIRED?????

ABOUT TIME!!!!

Best Jets news I have heard in a very long time!

You do know that Rex drafted Sanchez, the rest of the organization was leaning towards Freeman, and Rex thought Sanchez had more friends, and more friends=better QB.

I heard in this years draft all QB prospects are out trying to friend as many people on facebook as they can.
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