155 replies to this topic

[Greenseed4]

Great, so we shoot for a guy say in round 3 that we think COULD be comparable to Landry (doubt any S in this draft is comparable to a healthy Landry never mind 3rd round).

Then what? Who else starts at S? Bush? Allen? Resign E Smith? IF we had another S on the roster who was signed, and projected to start, and be a competent starter, then yes let him walk, and try, and find his replacement, BUT we don't have a starting FS, or SS on the team, and the odds of drafting 2 that can start day 1 is silly to think UNLESS you WASTE 2, of your 1st 3 picks on a Safety, and that is not a very smart play!

The move here is to sign Landry, trade Cro, and try, and find a true FS prospect in rd 3, and bring in a cheap veteran who can hold the fort if prospect can't cut it year 1, and with Landry's versatillity to play both positions it opens up more options on which veteran cheap FA to sign.

It really depends on how much money Landry is going to cost, and how much money we will continue to tie up in our secondary.
We really cant afford to pay three of our four DBs, elite-money. Unless Revis and Cro (both) take a cut to keep Landry, someone's gotta give, and Laron's contract is up.

Here's my what-if:
What if we tried to trade Revis for 2 first round picks (a 2013 1st, and a conditional 2014 2nd that could move up into a 1st).
What if we then drafted the best CB prospect in the draft with our pick, and picked up our OLB, or OL later in the first with the Revis pick.

Then we would have enough money to afford an elite (paid) DB like Landry. Granted, it would be at the expense of losing a generational player (and his hefty contract).


Who would you prefer:
-Milliner (or another 1st round CB), Cromartie, and a Landry/Bush combination [plus your 1st round pick this year, and 2,1st round picks next year]
0r,
-Revis, Cromartie, and a Bush/(3rd round rookie SS) [plus your 1st round pick this year and next]

[bitonti]

What if we tried to trade Revis for 2 first round picks (a 2013 1st, and a conditional 2014 2nd that could move up into a 1st).
What if we then drafted the best CB prospect in the draft with our pick

this is what I hate about trading Revis. they would immediately have to use a huge pick to replace him. What's the point?

[#27TheDominator]

Scenario 1 keeping Cro, letting Landry walk for MAYBE a 5th, probably a 6th rd comp pick, 2013 cap hit 10.75 million, plus draft pick salary (not even relevant), 2014 cap hit 10.75 mill, or cut bait, and take the 9.5 million in savings, it is only a 1.25 mill dead money hit after the 2013 season (9.5 million dead cap hit if cut prior to this season)

Scenario 2 Signing Landry to a type of deal I posted in the original post, this would be a 2 million 2013 cap hit, and a 7.66 million cap hit in 2014, with the option to cut him after the 2014 season at 2 million dead, or keep him at 7.66 mill cap hit, and an option to keep him for the 4th year at 7.66 mill cap hit, or cut for 1 million dead cap space. Trading Cromartie nets a 2nd rounder (I think you can get a conditional 1st added into the deal, but lets just say 2nd rounder) in 2014, Cromartie has a prorated bonus of 1.25 million, so trading Cromartie is a 2.5 mill dead cap hit in 2013, (if I am wrong someone please correct me, and I appologize, but I think I am correct here)

So Scenario 1 is a 2013 cap hit of 10.75 mill with Cromartie, and the 2014 option at cutting bait for dead 1.25 mill, or keep at 10.75 mill.

Scenario 2 is a 2013 cap hit of 4 million, with Landry, and a 2014 2nd rounder, and in 2014 a cap hit of 7.66 million plus whatever the 2nd rounder's cap hit is, with Landry, and extra 2nd round drafted player.

Okay. I thought when you said comparable contract you meant to Cromartie, not the OP. I know you didn't want the option, but I'd prefer C. Get the pick for Cro, sign Bell for $3M for 2 and save the cap on both.

If Cromartie is a 9.75M hit, how can you trade him? Don't all those escalators usually count the same on trades as cuts? I know Tannenbaum usually structured deals so that the salary would offset, but I thought a trade also rushed all the pro-rated money. FWIW, looking at Cro's deal he seems ripe for a renegotiation.

[Lupz27]

It really depends on how much money Landry is going to cost, and how much money we will continue to tie up in our secondary.
We really cant afford to pay three of our four DBs, elite-money. Unless Revis and Cro (both) take a cut to keep Landry, someone's gotta give, and Laron's contract is up.

Here's my what-if:
What if we tried to trade Revis for 2 first round picks (a 2013 1st, and a conditional 2014 2nd that could move up into a 1st).
What if we then drafted the best CB prospect in the draft with our pick, and picked up our OLB, or OL later in the first with the Revis pick.

Then we would have enough money to afford an elite (paid) DB like Landry. Granted, it would be at the expense of losing a generational player (and his hefty contract).


Who would you prefer:
-Milliner (or another 1st round CB), Cromartie, and a Landry/Bush combination [plus your 1st round pick this year, and 2,1st round picks next year]
0r,
-Revis, Cromartie, and a Bush/(3rd round rookie SS) [plus your 1st round pick this year and next]

I am not going to kill your thinking here, because I would be ok with trading Revis only thing I would reverse in that scenario is take a 2013 2nd, and a 2014 1st.

BUT, and this is a HUGE hole in this scenario, trading Revis escalates his WHOLE prorated bonus on to the 2013 cap, and that is a dead money hit of 12 million, it is not feasible to make this deal UNLESS you are going to blow the whole thing up, so then no Landry, AND also trade Cromartie, cut Sanchez, Holmes, Harris, and any other player you don't see in your 2014, and beyond future, take all the dead money cap hits in 2013, and plug in 15 rookie, and cheap free agent starters, and nothing but cheap bottom feeder guys behind them, go 0-16, and then start the whole process over with the 1st overall pick. TBH I am in favor of this move right here, but that will never happen on Woody's watch.

Trading Cromartie makes much more salary cap sense, you save 10.75 million in cap space trading Cromartie in 2013, with only a 2.5 million dead money hit, so a total savings of 8.25 million, and get the draft pick for trading Cromartie, and use the extra cap space created to sign Landry, or whatever player(s) you would deem worthy of the created money.

[Lupz27]

Okay. I thought when you said comparable contract you meant to Cromartie, not the OP. I know you didn't want the option, but I'd prefer C. Get the pick for Cro, sign Bell for $3M for 2 and save the cap on both.

If Cromartie is a 9.75M hit, how can you trade him? Don't all those escalators usually count the same on trades as cuts? I know Tannenbaum usually structured deals so that the salary would offset, but I thought a trade also rushed all the pro-rated money. FWIW, looking at Cro's deal he seems ripe for a renegotiation.

No he made Cromartie's deal a very tradeable contract after the 2012 season, this was one of the deals he actually got right, Cromartie has a BASE Salary of 7 million in 2013, a ROSTER bonus of 2.3 million in 2013, and a PRORATED bonus of 1.25 million, the 7 million Base salary is guaranteed, BUT if traded the Jets are only responsible for the 1.25 million PRORATED bonus in 2013, and 2014, the rest goes on the team who trades for Cromartie's cap.

The reason why if cut it is a 9.5 mill dead cap hit is because his base salary of 7 million is guaranteed 2013, plus the 2 years of prorated bonus money of 1.25 million has already been paid, add that up, and it equals 9.5 million.

(Thanks Jason for that awesome NYJETSCAP.COM website)

[Lupz27]

Okay. I thought when you said comparable contract you meant to Cromartie, not the OP. I know you didn't want the option, but I'd prefer C. Get the pick for Cro, sign Bell for $3M for 2 and save the cap on both.

If Cromartie is a 9.75M hit, how can you trade him? Don't all those escalators usually count the same on trades as cuts? I know Tannenbaum usually structured deals so that the salary would offset, but I thought a trade also rushed all the pro-rated money. FWIW, looking at Cro's deal he seems ripe for a renegotiation.

Yes, and this is why you trade him now his value has never been higher, a team that is looking for that #1 CB that thinks will put them over the top, would IMO be more than willing to pay a 2014 1st round pick for Cromartie, you get him at a discounted price for true #1 CB's (9.5 million a year, for 1 year, with a team option to keep a 2nd year at 9.5 million, or cut if it did not work out with ZERO dead cap space, and ZERO real $$$ in 2014) and not just for 1 loaner year like a Revis would be, but locked up for 2 years, I really don't care if AFTER the trade is official Cromartie makes a play to renegotiate, that would be the other teams problem, would only become the Jets problem if he says this before the Jets can trade him.

[jetsjetsjetss]

why trade cro and not revis?

[#27TheDominator]

Yes, and this is why you trade him now his value has never been higher, a team that is looking for that #1 CB that thinks will put them over the top, would IMO be more than willing to pay a 2014 1st round pick for Cromartie, you get him at a discounted price for true #1 CB's (9.5 million a year, for 1 year, with a team option to keep a 2nd year at 9.5 million, or cut if it did not work out with ZERO dead cap space, and ZERO real $$$ in 2014) and not just for 1 loaner year like a Revis would be, but locked up for 2 years, I really don't care if AFTER the trade is official Cromartie makes a play to renegotiate, that would be the other teams problem, would only become the Jets problem if he says this before the Jets can trade him.

*Edit, just saw your other response.

Edited by #27TheDominator, 15 January 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Lupz27]

*Edit, just saw your other response.

I didn't see your original post, but taking Landry out of the equation, and not thinking you can win the Super Bowl in 2013 (any person with a decent head on their shoulders knows the Jets can't unless they get a once an a decade luck job QB like the Pats did with T Brady) trading Cromartie is an absolute must this offseason if you can get back what I have proposed in past posts.

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't see your original post, but taking Landry out of the equation, and not thinking you can win the Super Bowl in 2013 (any person with a decent head on their shoulders knows the Jets can't unless they get a once an a decade luck job QB like the Pats did with T Brady) trading Cromartie is an absolute must this offseason if you can get back what I have proposed in past posts.

This is exactly the kind of thinking with which I strongly disagree. Cromartie is one of our best players. He is really fitting in and appears to have bought into what Rex wants. Furthermore, he's been a good soldier, offering himself up to play offense, return kicks and even punts when necessary. That is not a guy that it is "an absolute must" to trade. Ever.

[Lupz27]

This is exactly the kind of thinking with which I strongly disagree. Cromartie is one of our best players. He is really fitting in and appears to have bought into what Rex wants. Furthermore, he's been a good soldier, offering himself up to play offense, return kicks and even punts when necessary. That is not a guy that it is "an absolute must" to trade. Ever.

If the circumstances were not as dire as I think they are I would agree with you, but I don't see the Jets contending again until probably 2015 when Cromartie will be a FA, and 33-34 years old, sorry it is the reality I see for this team, why keep him to waste away on 2 losing seasons, and get nothing for him, when you could get X for him now. If you see the Jets contending this year, or 2014 then your thinking is fine with me, I just don't see that.

[ylekram]

say no to landry. i like they way he plays,but
1. cant afford him.probably gonna be looking for 7m a year
2.hasnt been the most durable dude out there.guaranteed $ and injury history do not mix
3. with the offensive rule changes, it makes no sense to pay big money to a big hittin safety.his style of play is what the nfl is trying to eliminate.big safety hits = big fines and big yards in penalties these days.give me a cover safety over a hard hitter any day and twice on sunday given the way the game is played nowadays.
4. trade cro or revis and sign landry. lol. we have some future jets gm's on this board

Edited by ylekram, 15 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Greenseed4]

this is what I hate about trading Revis. they would immediately have to use a huge pick to replace him. What's the point?

Herchel Walker begat Emmit Smith (and then some)

[Greenseed4]

This is exactly the kind of thinking with which I strongly disagree. Cromartie is one of our best players. He is really fitting in and appears to have bought into what Rex wants. Furthermore, he's been a good soldier, offering himself up to play offense, return kicks and even punts when necessary. That is not a guy that it is "an absolute must" to trade. Ever.

Excellent point to consider.

Cromartie really stepped up this year when Revis went down...and rightly earned title of team MVP.
Trading away your team's best "team" player sends the wrong message to the rest of the team.

Especially in this day and age, when playing for a sick coach (Chuck Strong), or a dead teammate, or for the retirement of a HOFer (Play for Ray) can have such an impact on a team's psyche and production.

[bitonti]

Herchel Walker begat Emmit Smith (and then some)

rarely does it work that way. no way the Jets get a better corner than Revis. Zero chance.

[bitonti]

Cromartie really stepped up this year when Revis went down...and rightly earned title of team MVP.
Trading away your team's best "team" player sends the wrong message to the rest of the team.

that's exactly the time to trade him... When his value is high. people want to trade Revis ok well the time to do that was after the Steelers loss. sell high.

[Greenseed4]

that's exactly the time to trade him... When his value is high. people want to trade Revis ok well the time to do that was after the Steelers loss. sell high.

Revis has a supernatural aura about him. Injury or not, I say he fetches more than Cro on the open market. If anything just for namesake and jersey sales.

Revis has a clothing line, and endorsements. Cromartie has 19 children. That has to weigh-in on the trade value.

Edited by Greenseed4, 16 January 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[#27TheDominator]

Revis has a supernatural aura about him. Injury or not, I say he fetches more than Cro on the open market. If anything just for namesake and jersey sales.

Revis has a clothing line, and endorsements. Cromartie has 19 children. That has to weigh-in on the trade value.

Jersey sales? I bet Sanchez and Tebow outsold him 5 to 1. Each.

[Greenseed4]

Jersey sales? I bet Sanchez and Tebow outsold him 5 to 1. Each.

???

I was talking about the merits of trading Revis vs. Cromartie.

My argument is: Revis, while injured, and not at his "peak" of value (as Bit would say) carries more trade value than does Cromartie despite Cro having a pro-bowl year as a legitimate shutdown corner. Part of the reason is physical talent, but a much larger part is his character. Revis will sell more jerseys/seats/hotdogs/foam fingers/etc. in a new stadium than would Cromartie because he is a good-character player, whereas Cromartie has been playing Johnny Apple Seed across the country.

[#27TheDominator]

???

I was talking about the merits of trading Revis vs. Cromartie.

My argument is: Revis, while injured, and not at his "peak" of value (as Bit would say) carries more trade value than does Cromartie despite Cro having a pro-bowl year as a legitimate shutdown corner. Part of the reason is physical talent, but a much larger part is his character. Revis will sell more jerseys/seats/hotdogs/foam fingers/etc. in a new stadium than would Cromartie because he is a good-character player, whereas Cromartie has been playing Johnny Apple Seed across the country.

I think the main reason is that Revis is a much better player. That is also the reason that we shouldn't trade him. Any new GM should be fielding offers, but there is no necessity to trade Revis (or Cromartie) as people here keep saying. You trade guys you have to get rid of, not your best players. You move guys like Revis or Cromartie if there is a killer offer, but not just to get anything.