Kingmaker Mafia - Game Thread

[Gone]

I pulled a butt muscle. Proceed to laugh.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Nynaeve said:

I pulled a butt muscle. Proceed to laugh.

If I said that I would automatically be scum !

[Smashmouth]

Also the kingmaker should have made a confirmed townie the King ...sure Lizzie is crazy but we are sure he's town. I'm leaning town on JIF but I've been wrong before. So why would the Kingmaker gamble ? More bad play IMO

If Lizz'e was made King we could have easily made him go with the majority vote.

[Leelou]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Also the kingmaker should have made a confirmed townie the King ...sure Lizzie is crazy but we are sure he's town. I'm leaning town on JIF but I've been wrong before. So why would the Kingmaker gamble ? More bad play IMO

If Lizz'e was made King we could have easily made him go with the majority vote.

Pac. 

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Also the kingmaker should have made a confirmed townie the King ...sure Lizzie is crazy but we are sure he's town. I'm leaning town on JIF but I've been wrong before. So why would the Kingmaker gamble ? More bad play IMO

If Lizz'e was made King we could have easily made him go with the majority vote.

In one word?  Pac.   lol

[Leelou]

JINX!

[Gone]

@Jetsfan80 Can you explain why you feel that the whole King/Kingsmaker setup is more beneficial to scum?

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

80 you can't use my style by throwing out ideas

The rational reason is once you kill THIS kingmaker there are no more Kingmakers this is the last one. While I see it will narrow the field THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BE DOING THAT IMHO. IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE AT ENDGAME.

Now if you think that the Kingmaker is a bullsh*t role and does not do much for town other than causing arguments like this then by all means let him/her out themselves.

FWIW I don't think you wanted it questioned I think you wanted it implemented and are now trying to back out after making a silly suggestion

The Kingmaker is only a worthless role in my eyes because I think that a King choosing who dies is not an effective means of lynching scum.  Give the power back to the people!

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

In one word?  Pac.   lol

blows my mind scum killed him he was well on his way to scum MVP

even funnier Pac wanted Crush dead then he makes JIF King I mean WTF is going on here

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

@Jetsfan80 Can you explain why you feel that the whole King/Kingsmaker setup is more beneficial to scum?

Because even when a townie is chosen to make a decision, the trend has been for town to not really collaborate effectively.  It allows scum to hide and not have to make a decision.  And of course we run the risk of choosing scum as a king.

The one time we killed scum this game, it was a traditional lynch. 

[Lizard King]

Leelou has been absolutely uselss this game

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Just throwing this out there:  Would it be beneficial for the new Kingmaker to announce his/her presence?  That would help us "clear" another townie, right?  The role then just gets cycled to a new townie, who could reveal again, and force scum to keep NKing him/her. 

80 this does not look to me like what you're saying now.

The only logical king at this point would have been Lizzie since we know for sure he's town. Idiot Pac

Also we are on our last kingmaker

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because even when a townie is chosen to make a decision, the trend has been for town to not really collaborate effectively.  It allows scum to hide and not have to make a decision.  And of course we run the risk of choosing scum as a king.

The one time we killed scum this game, it was a traditional lynch. 

80 I have to ask without going back to check but were you one of the players fighting EY's retard idea of not voting earlier ?

[Gone]

7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

blows my mind scum killed him he was well on his way to scum MVP

even funnier Pac wanted Crush dead then he makes JIF King I mean WTF is going on here

Maybe he had second thoughts about EY. He said he didn't like him going with Ballin in the end... but he didn't really say much beyond that that I recall. So god only knows what was going through his head *shrugs*

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

80 I have to ask without going back to check but were you one of the players fighting EY's retard idea of not voting earlier ?

We killed the doctor based on 5 votes.  But, it was a "retard" idea.

[Smashmouth]

Just now, gEYno said:

We killed the doctor based on 5 votes.  But, it was a "retard" idea.

EY the argument could be made that the Doc had plenty of time to reveal ... he didn't, he died, that's not on us that's on him. We could have come to a majority agreement that the king stick to a plan and that could have been accomplished pretty easily and it could have given us voting records that meant something at this stage of the game. Instead we have nothing.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

EY the argument could be made that the Doc had plenty of time to reveal ... he didn't, he died, that's not on us that's on him. We could have come to a majority agreement that the king stick to a plan and that could have been accomplished pretty easily and it could have given us voting records that meant something at this stage of the game. Instead we have nothing.

Not long ago, you admonished Pac for revealing too early.  Now Calder should have revealed with 5 votes.  Hard to know which it is... We did not come to a majority, and because of that, we lost the doctor.  You can add as many caveats as you want, but my "retarded idea" very likely has a different outcome.  Also, we have the voting record on Calder.  And on Hallia.  Pretty much no one is referencing it today.

Practice what you preach Smash, go look at the voting records and based on them, tell who besides yourself JiF should shoot.

[Gone]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because even when a townie is chosen to make a decision, the trend has been for town to not really collaborate effectively.  It allows scum to hide and not have to make a decision.  And of course we run the risk of choosing scum as a king.

The one time we killed scum this game, it was a traditional lynch. 

Okay. But, let me rephrase the question. Do you think scum would prefer to keep the King setup vs shifting to regular setup?  Because in my mind they'd be better off in a situation where they can actively affect things vs. being in the mercy of a town king. I agree that scum landing the king gig would be bad, so we agree on that. But otherwise, I'd say it's not that ideal to them irt trying to direct events. And they did shoot Pac.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Not long ago, you admonished Pac for revealing too early.  Now Calder should have revealed with 5 votes.  Hard to know which it is... We did not come to a majority, and because of that, we lost the doctor.  You can add as many caveats as you want, but my "retarded idea" very likely has a different outcome.  Also, we have the voting record on Calder.  And on Hallia.  Pretty much no one is referencing it today.

Practice what you preach Smash, go look at the voting records and based on them, tell who besides yourself JiF should shoot.

EY don't you think the Doc is a much more important role than the kingmaker ? The point you are trying to make in that respect does not hold water. At the time PAC revealed it basically happened like 2 minutes after you claimed you would kill him and that was the major point I was trying to make. I wanted to know why PAC revealed so early. Also Calder was killed close to the deadline the PAC reveal was a much different scenario.

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, gEYno said:

Calder was the doctor, killed day one, with 5 votes... These are the votes:

Calder (5) - Leelou, Hallia, Crusher, Lily, JC

I believe Nyn and 80 were both on the train at one point too.

 

13 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Not long ago, you admonished Pac for revealing too early.  Now Calder should have revealed with 5 votes.  Hard to know which it is... We did not come to a majority, and because of that, we lost the doctor.  You can add as many caveats as you want, but my "retarded idea" very likely has a different outcome.  Also, we have the voting record on Calder.  And on Hallia.  Pretty much no one is referencing it today.

Practice what you preach Smash, go look at the voting records and based on them, tell who besides yourself JiF should shoot.

you just referenced the Calder vote record today. So apparently we are looking at it

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

 

you just referenced the Calder vote record today. So apparently we are looking at it

Hasn't generated much discussion.  Why don't you be a steward of your own ideas and look them over and provide a case on someone you think is scum.  Besides the now lynched, uncounterclaimed, kingmaker.

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

EY don't you think the Doc is a much more important role than the kingmaker ? The point you are trying to make in that respect does not hold water. At the time PAC revealed it basically happened like 2 minutes after you claimed you would kill him and that was the major point I was trying to make. I wanted to know why PAC revealed so early. Also Calder was killed close to the deadline the PAC reveal was a much different scenario.

The doc is more important than the kingmaker.  But, we are talking about timing of a reveal, unless your argument is that Pac should have allowed himself to die, and Calder should not have.

[Smashmouth]

@gEYno aslo fwiw the Calder vote record gives us nothing because it was not a true majority which is what we could have pushed for, we didn't and you didn't. We could have asked for a true majority with the proper votes needed for a lynch and let the king only kill if we didn't reach majority at the deadline. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

@gEYno aslo fwiw the Calder vote record gives us nothing because it was not a true majority which is what we could have pushed for, we didn't and you didn't. We could have asked for a true majority with the proper votes needed for a lynch and let the king only kill if we didn't reach majority at the deadline. 

The King, DPR, made his intentions clear, that he would lynch without a majority.  I disagreed with that, and fought with him on it.  But, there was nothing we could have done, besides continuing to vote for Calder, or whoever was in second, to secure a majority.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The doc is more important than the kingmaker.  But, we are talking about timing of a reveal, unless your argument is that Pac should have allowed himself to die, and Calder should not have.

My argument was PAC jumped the gun way too early... you were obviously looking for reaction or trying to get the reveal and you got it. You know for a fact you weren't going to kill PAC on a whim based on what you said in that post. I'm pretty sure of that .

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

Okay. But, let me rephrase the question. Do you think scum would prefer to keep the King setup vs shifting to regular setup?  Because in my mind they'd be better off in a situation where they can actively affect things vs. being in the mercy of a town king. I agree that scum landing the king gig would be bad, so we agree on that. But otherwise, I'd say it's not that ideal to them irt trying to direct events. And they did shoot Pac.

I think the more the numbers shift in their direction, the more they would be in favor of keeping the king setup. 

The NK of Pac is definitely a fair question regarding their intentions.  If they wanted to simply kill off an uncountered town role, they could have easily just NK'd Lizzie earlier. 

[Lily]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People have been complaining all game about how this isn't regular Mafia.  I have a solution to that.  Can you expand on the issue you have with this viewpoint?

I guess it isn't inherently scummy, but I like this format and it isn't going to be regular mafia. There's no power roles, which is an important part of regular mafia. 

[Jetsfan80]

33 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

80 I have to ask without going back to check but were you one of the players fighting EY's retard idea of not voting earlier ?

Yes, I wanted town to come together and make a majority vote. 

[Gone]

FTR, I referenced the VCs post Halli's flip when I was musing over Ballin and Decker. I was obviously wrong about Ballin, but I think voting records are important, as I've mentioned before. Just like in any other game. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Lily said:

I guess it isn't inherently scummy, but I like this format and it isn't going to be regular mafia. There's no power roles, which is an important part of regular mafia. 

It would become regular mafia if/when the final kingmaker is killed off.  That will be true whether people follow my idea or not.  If scum NK's the final kingmaker, we vote like usual till achieving a majority lynch.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The King, DPR, made his intentions clear, that he would lynch without a majority.  I disagreed with that, and fought with him on it.  But, there was nothing we could have done, besides continuing to vote for Calder, or whoever was in second, to secure a majority.

yep I remember the argument pretty clearly and I took your back on that point if you remember correctly. So at this stage would it be a bad thing to ask for a Majority vote with the proper amount a lynch would be before we let JIF Kill ?? The if we do not reach that Majority before the deadline JIF can make the call at that stage ?

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think the more the numbers shift in their direction, the more they would be in favor of keeping the king setup. 

The NK of Pac is definitely a fair question regarding their intentions.  If they wanted to simply kill off an uncountered town role, they could have easily just NK'd Lizzie earlier. 

Precisely my point. I'd say Lizzie is a lot more confirmed than Pac was, in a sense. Even the night before they shot DPR and not Lizzie. 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Nynaeve said:

FTR, I referenced the VCs post Halli's flip when I was musing over Ballin and Decker. I was obviously wrong about Ballin, but I think voting records are important, as I've mentioned before. Just like in any other game. 

very true Nyn but the vote records we currently have in this game are worthless since they did not go full circle. Most Scum like to pile on when its obvious a lynch is inevitable we don't have that in any of our vote records. Calder also didn't reveal which made his voters even more insignificant.

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It would become regular mafia if/when the final kingmaker is killed off.  That will be true whether people follow my idea or not.  If scum NK's the final kingmaker, we vote like usual till achieving a majority lynch.

80 we can still do regular Mafia votes without outing the kingmaker. We force JIF to vote with the Majority it would take to lynch at this stage. So if we have 12 alive (not sure how many are alive ATM) JIF cant kill until he gets 7 votes ? Saving the kingmaker for a later reveal that would actually help town narrow things down !

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

very true Nyn but the vote records we currently have in this game are worthless since they did not go full circle. Most Scum like to pile on when its obvious a lynch is inevitable we don't have that in any of our vote records. Calder also didn't reveal which made his voters even more insignificant.

Halli was sitting pretty on Calder, though. So it doesn't seem that meaningless to me *shrugs*   But anyways, was just pointing out that I did reference the VCs before, with an emphasis of what Halli was doing.