Kingmaker Mafia - Game Thread

[Smashmouth]

19 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Why?  From what I understand if the Kingmaker gets nk the back up Kingmaker takes his place. If he dies we are back to regular mafia. At least thats what I gathered. I see no reason the Kingmaker would not reveal if Pac is lying. I realize its hard to believe he plays this bad as town but he hasnt been any good at mafia since back when EY was still playing. Pac has been mailing it in for years, but I believe his claim.

 

18 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes. This game is pretty much played in its entirety at L1.  You see what happen to Caulder day 1

My mistake I was thinking of Lizzie and Calder. Lizzie used his one time ability and I'm now wondering wtf is the reason fro a doc other than end game. Protecting a kingmaker makes no sense since its a repeatable role once the current one is dead.

Is there any reason to think Pac does not get NKed ? Pac saying he's the kingmaker basically gets him killed IMO that's why I asked that question as to why Pac gave it up so quickly

[Gone]

Because It takes one vote to lynch and the guy that was making that call was mentioning him as his top choice at that point?  >.>

[Gone]

And obviously rolled villagers are a more likely target than villagers. But the previous night they went for DPR vs offing Lizzie, so who knows.

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

Because It takes one vote to lynch and the guy that was making that call was mentioning him as his top choice at that point?  >.>

Nyn was there any reason to think EY was going to make a quick kill on Pac ? no EY was clearly giving his top choices a chance to discuss the situation Pac jumped the gun IMO

[AVM]

3 hours ago, gEYno said:

So, I was supposed to kill an un-counterclaimed role?  That's how I should have used my day?  Seems legit.

Well I mean, obviously. It's okay though... you haven't played in a while. Even the most obvious decisions are bound to elude you at first.

Clearly the only decisions were Pac or self-voting for a bastard mod check. Clearly.

[Gone]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Nyn was there any reason to think EY was going to make a quick kill on Pac ? no EY was clearly giving his top choices a chance to discuss the situation Pac jumped the gum IMO

Three things.

One, Pac hasn't really been that proactive this game. He's been sort of sitting back and not really contributing much. So aside from saying "There's nothing to see here, move along" I don't really see what he could say or use to defend himself in that situation, playwise. So I don't really have an issue with him letting the cat out of the bag to drop that line of thought and look elsewhere so we'd have the time to discuss things properly. What would you have preferred? For him to let us waste the entire time talking about him and then drop the claim like 10 minutes to deadline? No.

Secondly, the minute I saw EY was chosen as King, I thought it was fairly obvious Pac was the Kingsmaker. I didn't say anything for obvious reasons, but come on. It was a no brainer looking at his reads. So when he claimed I was like, well duh. lol

Thirdly, no CC.

 

Like you can argue that's not how YOU would have played it. And that's fine. But at the same time I think his claim holds.

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Nyn was there any reason to think EY was going to make a quick kill on Pac ? no EY was clearly giving his top choices a chance to discuss the situation Pac jumped the gun IMO

and this matters how?

[Lily]

6 hours ago, Leelou said:

Leelou
Lizzy - claimed Anarchist, used role D2
Pac - claimed Kingmaker
Crushlove

Nyn
JiF
Lily
AVM

JC

EY
80
Smash
Decker

DEAD
Calder - Doc - Lynched D1 via King DPR
CTM - town - NK N1
Hallia - scum - Lynched D2 via majority
Dirty Pirate - town - NK N2
Ballin - town - Lynched D3 via King EY

I can never remember what the colors mean (other than blue and red) but I can read the order. Why is JC so high on your list. He hasn't done that much. I'd flip him and 80. I'm just curious to know what you're seeing that I'm not. 

[Leelou]

33 minutes ago, Lily said:

I can never remember what the colors mean (other than blue and red) but I can read the order. Why is JC so high on your list. He hasn't done that much. I'd flip him and 80. I'm just curious to know what you're seeing that I'm not. 

The color is a very light town read right above null. So far I haven't seen anything scummy from him, I also like that the 8 ball is being mentioned, and I have some bad feelings from 80 that I just can't shake this game. 

[deckerfan]

EY is probably town for not going for a heroic shot which could have been justified easily

my two cents

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Lily said:

I can never remember what the colors mean (other than blue and red) but I can read the order. Why is JC so high on your list. He hasn't done that much. I'd flip him and 80. I'm just curious to know what you're seeing that I'm not. 

JC = Accurate scum hunter.  What have you done?

[Lily]

23 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

JC = Accurate scum hunter.  What have you done?

I'm asking questions and giving my thoughts. Your accuracy has yet to be determined. Smash is still alive. Have you gone after anyone else?

 

[Lily]

JC, I was asking for Leelou's thoughts. Wasn't that a bit defensive of you?

 

[Jetscode1]

4 minutes ago, Lily said:

I'm asking questions and giving my thoughts. Your accuracy has yet to be determined. Smash is still alive. Have you gone after anyone else?

 

did you vote hallia?  cause i did...who is your #1 suspect?

[Jetscode1]

4 minutes ago, Lily said:

JC, I was asking for Leelou's thoughts. Wasn't that a bit defensive of you?

 

nope...just bored with this game and want you to explain why you think I'm scummy...cause you know...your commentary looks like a backdoor way to defend smash.

[Lily]

Town

Lily

Lizzy – claimed anarchist

Pac – claimed kingmaker

Leelou

Crushlove

Nyn

AVM

80

JiF

EY

Smash

JC

Decker

Scum

I've never ordered people before. I usually do a read's list. This was kind of weird to do. Like, Crush and Nyn are equally townie to me. 

 

[Lily]

10 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

nope...just bored with this game and want you to explain why you think I'm scummy...cause you know...your commentary looks like a backdoor way to defend smash.

I don't necessarily think your scummy, although by POE, you are on my list. I just feel you have tunneled a lot and haven't contributed much else. And yes, I voted Hallia. 

[Jetscode1]

45 minutes ago, Lily said:

I don't necessarily think your scummy, although by POE, you are on my list. I just feel you have tunneled a lot and haven't contributed much else. And yes, I voted Hallia. 

...and this makes me #2 on your list...good to know...and smash #3...seems rather contradictory...no?

On the tunneling...IMO its best to let the Kingmaker know exactly who I will lynch before he chooses...simplifies the equation really...like...if you made king...you would lynch Decker or would you just want the town majority vote to absolve you of any guilt?

[Lily]

If I were king, I would listen to the town's thoughts, and make a decision based on what we all seem to want. Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird that both you and Smash ended up near the bottom of my list. Like I said, listing in order was new and kind of strange. I think you and I have different agendas here. I'm trying to have a conversation and you seem to be leaning towards a confrontation. 

[Jetscode1]

26 minutes ago, Lily said:

If I were king, I would listen to the town's thoughts, and make a decision based on what we all seem to want. Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird that both you and Smash ended up near the bottom of my list. Like I said, listing in order was new and kind of strange. I think you and I have different agendas here. I'm trying to have a conversation and you seem to be leaning towards a confrontation. 

I want to lynch scum.  Why Decker over me or smash?

[Lily]

When I ISOd Decker, he didn't have any content to speak of. He's repping posts where people talk about him negatively. And I was pretty sure that either he or Ballin was scum, based on Hallia's interactions with them. Ballin wasn't. 

I think the same thing with you and Smash. One of you is probably scum. Just not sure which one yet. 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Lily said:

When I ISOd Decker, he didn't have any content to speak of. He's repping posts where people talk about him negatively. And I was pretty sure that either he or Ballin was scum, based on Hallia's interactions with them. Ballin wasn't. 

I think the same thing with you and Smash. One of you is probably scum. Just not sure which one yet. 

So, nothing specific...just a double Hobson's choice?  Any evidence to back up your assertion or just a feeling?

[deckerfan]

When I rep, it's kudos to people who are making an actual effort to make a "case" on me and see how I [fail to] respond. A+ for effort, that's it. I also rep when there's snark that I enjoy

 Some of you guys are reminiscent of vaudeville, not that I'm old enough to live through that!

 

[Lily]

Mostly feeling, I'll admit. You and Smash could be town on town, but I think not. 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Lily said:

Mostly feeling, I'll admit. You and Smash could be town on town, but I think not. 

Smash is scum Lily.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Lily said:

Mostly feeling, I'll admit. You and Smash could be town on town, but I think not. 

I'm thinking town on town as well but you know JC has this incredible case on me so . ...

[Pac]

13 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Nyn was there any reason to think EY was going to make a quick kill on Pac ? no EY was clearly giving his top choices a chance to discuss the situation Pac jumped the gun IMO

I may not have been around for 8 hours after making that post so in my mind it was then or never.

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Pac said:

I may not have been around for 8 hours after making that post so in my mind it was then or never.

I figured at this stage it was a moot point, so I'm not sure why you made this post since you were around all day after you're reveal.

[Lily]

Not feeling well today. Probably won't be around much if at all. 

[Gone]

So I've been thinking some about DPR being the NK target. He wasn't really universally town read (though prolly half the game didn't actually give a read on him either way). But there were definitely players who were feeling iffy about him. He clearly was not the Kingsmaker, because Verbal confirmed on thread that the Kingsmaker can't King himself and I didn't see any sort of hinting in his content that he was the Hero, so this doesn't feel like a PR hunting decision. So to me it seems like scum most likely did not want him to be King again and having the choice of the lynch in his hands. Which begs the question of, why?

I pulled up DPR's main reads/thoughts posts on D2 and also towards EoD to get the gist of it.

 

On 5/27/2016 at 9:58 PM, D P R said:

The vote to lynch me isn't picking up steam because most players realize a straight forward vote system is a much better alternative that one player sharing the 8 ball and guessing. 

80 is fumbling, but he's taking fire from the tag-team of JiF and EY who are pushing their point. The way EY was pushing conspiracies about scum killing scum, I would;t be shocked if he's trying to pull off a hail-nary gambit after he's botched so many other things. 

Maybe we'll get some traction with an EY vote.

Unvote - Vote EY

 

On 5/28/2016 at 1:53 AM, D P R said:

A few serious game reads so far:

I have no opinion on Hally. I don't know her tells and she seems to be playing the same way she always does.

I don't see the case on Smash.

Lily strikes me as town.

I'm meh with 80 and JC right now. Could go either way with them.

I do see a dynamic where a significant portion of the game is laying low. We all know that scum will be in this group and it probably is, realistically, our best chance of lynching one today.

We've had some very "out front" play. A lot of it seems pushy and pied-pipersh to me. I see a Leelou/Nyn symmetry. I see an EY/JiF symmetry, These could be scum efforts, although there is a very low chance of a gambit paying off because we know the setup - there are no surprises here to leverage.

Pac sticks out to me as a lurker who pops in and out so as not to draw attention. I don't like that at all.

Crusher's behavior yesterday still pings, but we'll need to clear that slot and get a new read from CTM. 

AVM is creeping on me because I haven't thought about his play at all.

Decker and Ballin never play (or haven't in a game I've been in) so I got no read there.

For me, you either agree with my voting system or you don't. If Calder had been vanilla, there would have been less discussion so I continue to put that on him.

I'm good with my vote on EY - he's been very adamant in his stance but has shown enough cracks to make me think that a little pressure will do him some good.

 

On 5/29/2016 at 5:36 PM, D P R said:

Hally is at 5. We got no momentum on any other player.

I got no feels for Hally either way, but in the spirit of selfishness, I don't want to wait until tomorrow night either.

Unvote - Vote Hally

 

On 5/29/2016 at 7:43 PM, D P R said:

My vote on Hally is a "several people are passionate about her being scum, she's the vote leader by a fair amount, and it's a holiday weekend, so me putting her at L-3 is our best shot at getting info for the day" kind of vote. I already said I got nothin' on her either way, but you especially have strong feelings about her being scum, so we might get something.

Having said that, I'll jump back on the Pac train in a hot second. JiF and EY are tied for my second place vote, but most people have said they think those two are town, so this votes are not getting any momentum.

I'm willing to go for an inactive, but this early in the game it makes more sense to go for someone that another player has a strong suspicion on.

 

On 5/31/2016 at 9:24 PM, D P R said:

Lizzie yes. Crush is still 50/50 for me. 80 is meh, JiF is off. The voting just struck me as off after we've waited for days for any activity.

 

On 5/31/2016 at 9:28 PM, D P R said:

I unvoiced EY a while back and was on Hally over the holiday weekend. I unvoted as soon as Verb announced today's extension and I'll be around for deadline, so don't put that evil on me.

Man, I don't think we have that kind of time...

Serious now, you struck me earlier as playing a version of your style instead of just your old regular self.   (edit: in response to JiF)

Yep.

 

On 5/31/2016 at 9:31 PM, D P R said:

Unvote - Vote Halli

I see a lot more reasoning to vote Halli and decker is an inactive vote that we can go back to anytime. More information with a Halli lynch.

 

 

Overall he seemed suspicious of Pac, EY and JiF. Didn't have much of an opinion about the inactives because lack of content. 50/50 on Crusher. Unsure about 80/JC (though felt meh about 80's vote on decker). 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Nynaeve said:

So I've been thinking some about DPR being the NK target. He wasn't really universally town read (though prolly half the game didn't actually give a read on him either way). But there were definitely players who were feeling iffy about him. He clearly was not the Kingsmaker, because Verbal confirmed on thread that the Kingsmaker can't King himself and I didn't see any sort of hinting in his content that he was the Hero, so this doesn't feel like a PR hunting decision. So to me it seems like scum most likely did not want him to be King again and having the choice of the lynch in his hands. Which begs the question of, why?

I pulled up DPR's main reads/thoughts posts on D2 and also towards EoD to get the gist of it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall he seemed suspicious of Pac, EY and JiF. Didn't have much of an opinion about the inactives because lack of content. 50/50 on Crusher. Unsure about 80/JC (though felt meh about 80's vote on decker). 

Good analysis.  Still think Smash but JiF and EY could be scum as well.  Pac looks town and I would not lynch without a counter.

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Lily said:

Not feeling well today. Probably won't be around much if at all. 

hope you feel better lily

[Smashmouth]

49 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Good analysis.  Still think Smash but JiF and EY could be scum as well.  Pac looks town and I would not lynch without a counter.

If Pac survives the night we have to question that.

I pushed JIF early for obvious reasons, he didn't seem to be paying attention and I never let that slide. However he has changed that tune later in the game so I've backed off.

If I had to pick scum out of the three I bolded in you're quote I would go with EY. While I backed his point earlier on the vote counts and the King I started to question it and got called names in return.  Majority vote counts give us information to go on and EY was trying to steer away from that. On EY's lynch/kill we got zero information and that's exactly what it takes to confuse town or get little to no information.

When I said EY should have killed Pac I was looking for more reaction from Pac and TBH  his answer was kind of weird he said he thought he might not be around for 8 hours yet he was around so why post that after the fact ? Made no sense to me .

 

[Gone]

15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If Pac survives the night we have to question that.

I've actually thought about this. Like, what would it mean if Pac survived the night. Having such an extended night phase means I have way too much time to think lol

But I was thinking about it more in relation to what it means about who he is choosing to King, vs what it means about his claim (because I think his claim is legit). At the end of the day, the King is a tool that can be used by anyone. It isn't like a standard town PR where only town stands to benefit from using it (at which case, Scum would be working towards ridding the game from it). It's something scum can benefit from too if it ends up in the wrong hands, ie either a scum or a seriously misguided townie.

Honestly though? There's nothing to fret about. Assuming he survives, and If he is lying? He's ****ed. He's gonna get countered eventually or we're gonna get a flip of the Kingsmaker that outs him. So he would be basically cornered. I don't get why you're stressing this so bad. It's an open setup. There's literally no where to hide. So this is gonna get resolved one way or the other. 

 

[Pac]

36 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If Pac survives the night we have to question that.

I pushed JIF early for obvious reasons, he didn't seem to be paying attention and I never let that slide. However he has changed that tune later in the game so I've backed off.

If I had to pick scum out of the three I bolded in you're quote I would go with EY. While I backed his point earlier on the vote counts and the King I started to question it and got called names in return.  Majority vote counts give us information to go on and EY was trying to steer away from that. On EY's lynch/kill we got zero information and that's exactly what it takes to confuse town or get little to no information.

When I said EY should have killed Pac I was looking for more reaction from Pac and TBH  his answer was kind of weird he said he thought he might not be around for 8 hours yet he was around so why post that after the fact ? Made no sense to me .

 

Wow what a dumb ass