O J Howard

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Mecca said:

How did Brandon Pettigrew workout? 

Sweet Pettigrew!!... I dunno, he played in the league for 8 years?.. so not bad. Your boi Howard profiles like a more athletic version. 

y'all laughed at me for suggesting we oughta run 2-TE formations. "Shut up Paradis, you moron.."... later that year NE drafts Hernie and Gronk after reading my posts and proceeds to dominant with 12-personnel offense formations. 

O.G.  right here. 

[Mecca]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Sweet Pettigrew!!... I dunno, he played in the league for 8 years?.. so not bad. Your boi Howard profiles like a more athletic version. 

y'all laughed at me for suggesting we oughta run 2-TE formations. "Shut up Paradis, you moron.."... later that year NE drafts Hernie and Gronk after reading my posts and proceeds to dominant with 12-personnel offense formations. 

O.G.  right here. 

Pettigrew is barely in the league anymore and is a butcher on offense. Gronk and Hernandez worked because Hernandez was basically a WR in the slot and it's the Pats.

Howard ran a 4.5 flat and has golden hands. Killed the 3 cone drill. This is no Pettigrew who had limited mobility coming out. He's basically Graham with better blocking ability. 

[Paradis]

9 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Pettigrew is barely in the league anymore and is a butcher on offense. Gronk and Hernandez worked because Hernandez was basically a WR in the slot and it's the Pats.

Howard ran a 4.5 flat and has golden hands. Killed the 3 cone drill. This is no Pettigrew who had limited mobility coming out. He's basically Graham with better blocking ability. 

Do you really think I need you to clear up what aaron hernandez was?

You seem to remember my affinity for Pettigrew, so you also know how much i loved Hernandez, and how much time i spend watching TEs in college. You want to start argument, all day bro. right here. but show up with some better sh*t than that. 

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

yeah, because big TEs have no place in the modern NFL. It's amazing how many people forget how Gronk terrorizes us and the whole NFL weekly. 

Did I say they don't have a place in the NFL? No. I didn't. 

[Mecca]

16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Do you really think I need you to clear up what aaron hernandez was?

You seem to remember my affinity for Pettigrew, so you also know how much i loved Hernandez, and how much time i spend watching TEs in college. You want to start argument, all day bro. right here. but show up with some better sh*t than that. 

I'm not starting an argument. I'm just befuddled that you praised Pettigrew like no tomorrow but dislike OJ Howard when he's the best TE prospect since Vernon Davis.

[Paradis]

I'm not starting an argument. I'm just befuddled that you praised Pettigrew like no tomorrow but dislike OJ Howard when he's the best TE prospect since Vernon Davis.

I didn't do a very good job of reading then... I like Howard, a lot. I have no problem taking him in the first. I just don't think he's worth the top 10.... he isn't the best tight end prospect ever. He's NOT the receiving phenom that you people think he is. Evan Engram will best his production year in and year out, Mark my words. They both bring a lot to the table in different departments however.

My love for Pettigrew at the time was more about using him as the Y tight end and Dustin Keller at the Joker and running two tight end formations. yes I liked Pettigrew, but it wasn't like I thought he was a world beater.


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[Mecca]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I didn't do a very good job of reading then... I like Howard, a lot. I have no problem taking him in the first. I just don't think he's worth the top 10.... he isn't the best tight end prospect ever. He's NOT the receiving phenom that you people think he is. Evan Engram will best his production year in and year out, Mark my words. They both bring a lot to the table in different departments however.

My love for Pettigrew at the time was more about using him as the Y tight end and Dustin Keller at the Joker and running two tight end formations. yes I liked Pettigrew, but it wasn't like I thought he was a world beater.


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Calling him a fringe 1st guy is kinda crazy. He wasn't the receiving phenom because A. Saban doesn't incorporate the TE in his offense, B. Alabama hasn't had good QB play. His hands check out, his speed checks out, he's explosive in small increments, and he's a + blocker. That is a top 10 pick. 

[Paradis]

Calling him a fringe 1st guy is kinda crazy. He wasn't the receiving phenom because A. Saban doesn't incorporate the TE in his offense, B. Alabama hasn't had good QB play. His hands check out, his speed checks out, he's explosive in small increments, and he's a + blocker. That is a top 10 pick. 

Thanks for the. breaking news, I didn't realize the Alabama offence miss used him. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess you totally understood what I meant when I said he doesn't catch the ball well with his hands in traffic. that part doesn't matter to you I guess right? Nor any of the other points I made.

You know who else flirted with top 10 status. Eric Ebron.

Peace, I'm out like Bo Jackson


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[Mecca]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Thanks for the. breaking news, I didn't realize the Alabama offence miss used him. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess you totally understood what I meant when I said he doesn't catch the ball well with his hands in traffic. that part doesn't matter to you I guess right? Nor any of the other points I made.

You know who else flirted with top 10 status. Eric Ebron.

Peace, I'm out like Bo Jackson


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Ebron didn't have near the explosiveness that Howard possesses. Put the tape next to OJ's. Not close. 

Catching with your hands in traffic is such a trite comment to make. It's easily correctable. The fact is he makes most of his catches with his hands, and his hands are good. That's a small issue that doesn't change my ranking on him. 

[Paradis]

I love how liking a player isn't enough anymore with some of youpeople. "No, you have to like him as much as I do"...

 

"But I think he's a great player..."

"Not enough, top 10 or you're an idiot"

 

 

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[Mecca]

Just now, Paradis said:

I love how liking a player isn't enough anymore with some of people. "No, you have to like him as much as I do"...


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I never said that, though. I just think calling him a fringe 1st is a reach. Dude is top 10 on everyone's big board. 

[thadude]

16 hours ago, Mecca said:

Ebron didn't have near the explosiveness that Howard possesses. Put the tape next to OJ's. Not close. 

Catching with your hands in traffic is such a trite comment to make. It's easily correctable. The fact is he makes most of his catches with his hands, and his hands are good. That's a small issue that doesn't change my ranking on him. 

Howard is a way better prospect than Ebron.  

[thadude]

16 hours ago, Mecca said:

I never said that, though. I just think calling him a fringe 1st is a reach. Dude is top 10 on everyone's big board. 

Howard is top 10 on anyone with any credibility's board

[Adoni Beast]

Id be happy with O.J. Howard @ 6.

Id be absolutely ecstatic if we trade back a few spots and still get him. 

[win4ever]

The more I read about him, the more I tend to like him because he's such a mismatch nightmare.  

I was worried about his production, and why a team as well run as Alabama would just ignore him.  Kiffin didn't utilize Jordan Cameron much with the Trojans for one year, but he did have Zach Miller with the Raiders, who turned in decent seasons.  

He seems almost like a more athletic version of Gronkowski, but I still can't wrap my head around why they didn't use him more often.  At least this year, I think they had the excuse of a freshman QB who is more of a runner, so they needed some protection, but last year with Coker, it was the perfect set up for a TE.  

I would not be mad at picking him at 6 though, because we need to take some risks and hit on a generational talent, instead of playing it safe.  If Howard turns out to be a stud, helps our offense immensely, especially in the red zone.  

[nyjbuddy]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

The more I read about him, the more I tend to like him because he's such a mismatch nightmare.  

I was worried about his production, and why a team as well run as Alabama would just ignore him.  Kiffin didn't utilize Jordan Cameron much with the Trojans for one year, but he did have Zach Miller with the Raiders, who turned in decent seasons.  

He seems almost like a more athletic version of Gronkowski, but I still can't wrap my head around why they didn't use him more often.  At least this year, I think they had the excuse of a freshman QB who is more of a runner, so they needed some protection, but last year with Coker, it was the perfect set up for a TE.  

I would not be mad at picking him at 6 though, because we need to take some risks and hit on a generational talent, instead of playing it safe.  If Howard turns out to be a stud, helps our offense immensely, especially in the red zone.  

In a traditional west coast offense a tight end has two roles.  First as a blocker and second as option route possession receiver.  Graham was an anomaly in Payton's west coast offense and was used as a deep threat target when teams crept up to stop the underneath routes, screens and runs.  Kiffin runs more of a traditional WCO, hence the under utilization of Howard.  Kiffin is also infamous for sticking to that traditional style and not willing to adapt to the modern game or his players.  His stubbornness is often the root of his criticism as a coordinator.

In college, utilization of a player is more reflective on the coordinator than the QB.  With plays being called from the sideline, QBs only doing simple pre-snap reads and "rock and throw" drop backs, the targeted players on each play is pre-determined with the play call.

Howard needs a coordinator that can utilize his talents and not just make him apart of the offense.

[thadude]

10 hours ago, win4ever said:

The more I read about him, the more I tend to like him because he's such a mismatch nightmare.  

I was worried about his production, and why a team as well run as Alabama would just ignore him.  Kiffin didn't utilize Jordan Cameron much with the Trojans for one year, but he did have Zach Miller with the Raiders, who turned in decent seasons.  

He seems almost like a more athletic version of Gronkowski, but I still can't wrap my head around why they didn't use him more often.  At least this year, I think they had the excuse of a freshman QB who is more of a runner, so they needed some protection, but last year with Coker, it was the perfect set up for a TE.  

I would not be mad at picking him at 6 though, because we need to take some risks and hit on a generational talent, instead of playing it safe.  If Howard turns out to be a stud, helps our offense immensely, especially in the red zone.  

A more athletic Gronk who doesn't get hurt

[Paradis]

35 minutes ago, thadude said:

A more athletic Gronk who doesn't get hurt

he's not the receiver Gronk is. 

[thadude]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

he's not the receiver Gronk is. 

Because Kiffin refused to use him?

[Paradis]

Because Kiffin refused to use him?

I don't care if Kiffin blew him with lipstick. You're making sweeping assumptions on a handful of catches that weren't even that contested. Gronk had oodles of game tape making contested catches. Howard has had a handful at best.

You can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Kiffin and the 'bama offense, but there isn't a body of work to support him being the receiving threat that Gronk was... there's THE POSSIBILITY... that's it. 

 

[win4ever]

14 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

In a traditional west coast offense a tight end has two roles.  First as a blocker and second as option route possession receiver.  Graham was an anomaly in Payton's west coast offense and was used as a deep threat target when teams crept up to stop the underneath routes, screens and runs.  Kiffin runs more of a traditional WCO, hence the under utilization of Howard.  Kiffin is also infamous for sticking to that traditional style and not willing to adapt to the modern game or his players.  His stubbornness is often the root of his criticism as a coordinator.

In college, utilization of a player is more reflective on the coordinator than the QB.  With plays being called from the sideline, QBs only doing simple pre-snap reads and "rock and throw" drop backs, the targeted players on each play is pre-determined with the play call.

Howard needs a coordinator that can utilize his talents and not just make him apart of the offense.

I was more in line with the lack of usage from Kiffin but with the Raiders, Miller had the second most targets his rookie year, and the most targets his second year with Kiffin.  Now in college, Kiffin didn't really use Jordan Cameron much, nor did he really use TEs much during his time at USC (but after Cameron, they didn't have studs at the position either).  My issue is that, Howard is a match up nightmare, so why would Saban go away from him, especially with a young QB?  I like Calvin Ridley, but it wasn't like their WR crops were amazing this year, so I never got why they ignored him throughout the season.  

The only time he has gone over 100 yards in his career has been the two championship games against Clemson, but otherwise they seem to just trot him out there as a blocker.  He doesn't even come close to a 100 in another other game (quick scan said 81 is next highest) so I'm worried about the lack of production, because that team wasn't loaded on passing stars.  

I'm not saying I hate him nor that I wouldn't pick him, but I think I lean more towards Paradis on this that he's not the once in a generation type TE hype that he's getting.  I wouldn't mind drafting him mainly because we have nothing at the position right now and should invest in some athletes and need to take some risks because the roster is barren.  It makes no sense for us to go safe, because we either need to hit on franchise altering players or find a new GM.  

On pure athleticism, he's a great prospect, one of the best at TE in a while, but the lack of production is definitely concerning, even in traditional west coast offense.  He is the No. 1 TE prospect for me because the upside is Gronk, but I don't think he's a slam dunk like a lot of pundits have him right now, saying it's just positional value that keeps him down.   

[win4ever]

8 hours ago, thadude said:

A more athletic Gronk who doesn't get hurt

I think that's the upside, but Gronk was a red zone monster in college even in limited time.  

I wouldn't mind the pick because, again, we don't have anything there, but there is definitely some risk involved with it.  

[Tinstar]

The problem with the vast majority of these players is that they are labeled wrong  .   The vast majority of these players are not TE, because most of them couldn't block their way out of a paper bag .  Half of them block worst than running backs and have crummy hands .

[UnitedWhofans]

I would definitely prefer Howard over Lattimore.

[thadude]

4 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I would definitely prefer Howard over Lattimore.

That's because you have a brain

[C Mart]

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

Something you don’t often always hear for #Bama prospects: TE OJ Howard received an A+ medical report. A very clean, complete prospect.

[thadude]

On April 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM, C Mart said:

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

Something you don’t often always hear for #Bama prospects: TE OJ Howard received an A+ medical report. A very clean, complete prospect.

I hope Jameis enjoys him

 

Oh the pain

[jamesr]

5 hours ago, thadude said:

I hope Jameis enjoys him

 

Oh the pain

We get to play Tampa this year ... the battle between Howard & Adams / Maye will be one to watch.