Rex Ryan is a 1-Dimensional Head Coach?

[Boozer76]

Yes, because they get to coach Rivers, Rodgers, and Brees. Who was d-riding Sean Payton before Drew Brees joined him?

Two of those guys were once coached by Schittenheimer, though there's a

long history here that says this doesn't count/matter because something something.

The OC quickly becomes obsolete once the QB is good enough to run the team. Until then he's just there to eat bullets.

Schotty's problem is he thinks his scheme is more important than anything else. He calls his plays with the notion of outsmarting the Defense with the play. Motions all over the place, "kill kill" all the time, RB's motioning out to WR and flailing their arms, pass plays to the worst receiver on the team in crucial moments because the D would never expect that. Schotty needs to realize he has good players and rely on the to beat their man. Instead of always trying to be cute, tell guys like Santonio, Plax, Keller, etc.. to line up their man and beat him. Tell Sanchez to locate the guy who's in single coverage and throw to him. Holmes, Plax, Keller, LT all have the ability to beat anyone in the league covering them 1 on 1, and one of them is going to be single covered on every play. Offense in today's day and age is nothing groundbreaking. Schotty's trickery and ingenuity are not going to be the deciding of a great offense, but if it's confusing and stale it certainly can be the demise.

[SenorGato]

So the OC is obsolete if his QB is good. We dont have a good QB and that player isnt improving, but its not the OC's fault.

You're impossible to follow. I'll just stick with you thinking a OC is obsolete...that way I'll avoid these silly little arguments with you defending a guy who's really hasnt earned to stay in the position he's currently in.

1. The OC is most definitely obsolete once the QB is good. Off the top of your head not using Google...who's the OC of the Saints? The Chargers? The Pats? The Packers? Why do the Steelers have so much success with a OC that their entire fanbase absolutely hates?

2. By "not improving" you mean "he sucks through 5 games when in year 3 he should be AMAZING!" Meanwhile, he's on pace to set a career high in TDs, yards, Y/A, completions, and completion%.

Schotty's problem is he thinks his scheme is more important than anything else. He calls his plays with the notion of outsmarting the Defense with the play. Motions all over the place, "kill kill" all the time, RB's motioning out to WR and flailing their arms, pass plays to the worst receiver on the team in crucial moments because the D would never expect that. Schotty needs to realize he has good players and rely on the to beat their man. Instead of always trying to be cute, tell guys like Santonio, Plax, Keller, etc.. to line up their man and beat him. Tell Sanchez to locate the guy who's in single coverage and throw to him. Holmes, Plax, Keller, LT all have the ability to beat anyone in the league covering them 1 on 1, and one of them is going to be single covered on every play. Offense in today's day and age is nothing groundbreaking. Schotty's trickery and ingenuity are not going to be the deciding of a great offense, but if it's confusing and stale it certainly can be the demise.

1. If he really thought his scheme is more important than anything else then this team wouldn't be so run dominant the past two years. So we're starting with that.

2. Yes, I would assume one of the goals needed to achieve success on a given play is to fool the defense. As you'll go onto say...offense nowadays is nothing groundbreaking, therefore what's needed is the ability to disguise what's coming (or just be so good you can do it anyway).

3. Motions, audibles, and RBs motioning out are parts of pro offenses. They're f'n universal in the NFL, especially in the 21st century.

4. Oh that's what he should do? Just say "beat them" and they'll beat them? That's how the football works? He's not TELLING Sanchez to locate the guy who's in single coverage? THATS why that's getting done? And people don't get why I take the position I take on the offense?

5. If offense in today's day and age is nothing groundbreaking then how in the hell does it come down to the OC?

[Morrissey]

not sure how you can argue otherwise. he's not in charge of the offense

[JustInFudge]

2. By "not improving" you mean "he sucks through 5 games when in year 3 he should be AMAZING!" Meanwhile, he's on pace to set a career high in TDs, yards, Y/A, completions, and completion%.

So now you think Sanchez is good?

Wow - did Visa hack your account?

[Bleedin Green]

So now you think Sanchez is good?

Wow - did Visa hack your account?

I think he's starting to confuse even himself. I'm guessing here's the way this just went in his head:

"If a QB is good then the OC is obsolete. So if the QB isn't good then the OC isn't obsolete. And if the OC isn't obselete and the offense sucks, that means that the OC must suck. Since obviously nothing regarding the Jets offense is Schotty's fault, he can't possibly suck, despite the fact that the offense sucks, so then he must be obsolete. So that must mean that Sanchez is a good QB."

[JustInFudge]

I think he's starting to confuse even himself. I'm guessing here's the way this just went in his head:

"If a QB is good then the OC is obsolete. So if the QB isn't good then the OC isn't obsolete. And if the OC isn't obselete and the offense sucks, that means that the OC must suck. Since obviously nothing regarding the Jets offense is Schotty's fault, he can't possibly suck, despite the fact that the offense sucks, so then he must be obsolete. So that must mean that Sanchez is a good QB."

LMFAO!!!! I could totally see Gato's brain working that way.

The only problem is, he thinks Sanchez sucks...so I really cant follow his thought process at all. I'd just rather laugh about how he's all over the map and constantly changing the goal.

[JonEJet]

Its all defense with Rex.

At least this team has an identity

Compared to where we were, I'll take it

[SenorGato]

So now you think Sanchez is good?

Wow - did Visa hack your account?

I think this whole post 2-3 through 5 games chaos is far more ridiculous than most of the performances so far. There's a ton of time to overanalyze, and that's what's being done. He hasn't been an elite QB or even really a good one, but he hasn't really sh*t the bed either just yet. Just considering the way the NFL works....for instance by week 9-10 the Bills should start their fade/collapse back into what they really are...I'm not panicking over anything yet.

I'll throw in that I think getting rid of Derrick Mason was a great thing because he's someone who was probably pushing overreacting to a mediocre 5 game stretch. I remain very optimistic on the 2011/2012 passing game.

[SenorGato]

I think he's starting to confuse even himself. I'm guessing here's the way this just went in his head:

"If a QB is good then the OC is obsolete. So if the QB isn't good then the OC isn't obsolete. And if the OC isn't obselete and the offense sucks, that means that the OC must suck. Since obviously nothing regarding the Jets offense is Schotty's fault, he can't possibly suck, despite the fact that the offense sucks, so then he must be obsolete. So that must mean that Sanchez is a good QB."

There's also the very real possibility that you're just not keeping up. Or the even more real possibility that once again the Jet fan overreacts to a couple of bad games and goes to the usual "ZOMG FIRE SOMEONE" bs. It must be something ingrained into the old guard in the fanbase.

[Bleedin Green]

There's also the very real possibility that you're just not keeping up. Or the even more real possibility that once again the Jet fan overreacts to a couple of bad games and goes to the usual "ZOMG FIRE SOMEONE" bs. It must be something ingrained into the old guard in the fanbase.

Yeah, I hate when fans overreact to a mere 6 years worth of failures. Geez, give the guy some time, right?

[JustInFudge]

I think this whole post 2-3 through 5 games chaos is far more ridiculous than most of the performances so far. There's a ton of time to overanalyze, and that's what's being done. He hasn't been an elite QB or even really a good one, but he hasn't really sh*t the bed either just yet. Just considering the way the NFL works....for instance by week 9-10 the Bills should start their fade/collapse back into what they really are...I'm not panicking over anything yet.

I'll throw in that I think getting rid of Derrick Mason was a great thing because he's someone who was probably pushing overreacting to a mediocre 5 game stretch. I remain very optimistic on the 2011/2012 passing game.

So then why every time the offense is questioned, you blame Sanchez? You're like a walking contradiction my man, its hard to follow.

[SenorGato]

So then why every time the offense is questioned, you blame Sanchez? You're like a walking contradiction my man, its hard to follow.

Yes! Yes, he's the QB! If he was good, it'd be his offense and it'd probably be highly productive. Since he's not there needs to people around to eat his bullets until the franchise and fanbase are sick of Sanchez (or he hits FA). That's just the way it is

An OC has his most influence on an offense when the QB is a competent, healthy veteran and the other 10 guys are above average or better. Even then, that OC probably won't pile up points so much as finesse points out of having a competent veteran QB while working with the D to win games (not pile up fantasy stats).

It always comes down to the QB. That's why the position is such a big deal, especially nowadays.

[SenorGato]

Yeah, I hate when fans overreact to a mere 6 years worth of failures. Geez, give the guy some time, right?

40+ worth of failure bottled into one specific person's 6 years. The 5 full seasons of that individual include 3 playoff appearances that include two trips to the AFCCG. Those AFCCG appearances came with a 13 start college junior turned Day 1 NFL starter. That same OC/QB combo is 2-3 into a season and you're jamming the panic button. It's kind of lazy to me. And for Matt Cavanaugh/Bill Calahan...yuch.

[JustInFudge]

Yes! Yes, he's the QB! If he was good, it'd be his offense and it'd probably be highly productive. Since he's not there needs to people around to eat his bullets until the franchise and fanbase are sick of Sanchez (or he hits FA). That's just the way it is

An OC has his most influence on an offense when the QB is a competent, healthy veteran and the other 10 guys are above average or better. Even then, that OC probably won't pile up points so much as finesse points out of having a competent veteran QB while working with the D to win games (not pile up fantasy stats).

It always comes down to the QB. That's why the position is such a big deal, especially nowadays.

Yet you still have faith in the passing game.

[Jetsfan80]

Yes! Yes, he's the QB! If he was good, it'd be his offense and it'd probably be highly productive. Since he's not there needs to people around to eat his bullets until the franchise and fanbase are sick of Sanchez (or he hits FA). That's just the way it is

An OC has his most influence on an offense when the QB is a competent, healthy veteran and the other 10 guys are above average or better. Even then, that OC probably won't pile up points so much as finesse points out of having a competent veteran QB while working with the D to win games (not pile up fantasy stats).

It always comes down to the QB. That's why the position is such a big deal, especially nowadays.

I'd say its 50/50 Sanchez and Schottenheimer. I still say you can't fully blame the players for failing to execute when plays are designed to fail.

When receivers are running curl routes short of the first down marker CONSISTENTLY, or 3 receivers are ending up in the same spot on the field CONSISTENTLY, or Sanchez is looking down the field and no one is open CONSISTENTLY, or when we're running a belly up the middle for 1 yard CONSISTENTLY, or when people are saying our offense is predictable CONSISTENTLY, or when players on our own team are complaining about the offense, not Sanchez, CONSISTENTLY, or when Rex Ryan, who knows d*** about offense, is telling Schottenheimer and the press what he wants to do CONSISTENTLY (remember the red-yellow-green? "We need to get back to ground and pound"?), there's no way you can SOLELY pin this on Mark Sanchez.

And again, Gato, your little squirms when I talk about the defense are not going ignored. If Rex Ryan can consistently run a top 5 defense, then gameplanning DOES MATTER, even if you just want to cover your ears and say "la la la la". Yes, offense is different than defense, but it should tell you something when we've never finished higher than 16th in offense under Schottenheimer's leadership.

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job. Rex could just call the offensive plays off of Madden and blame it all on poor execution. But that's not how the game operates. Guys like Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, Chan Gailey and Mike McCarthy have run solid offenses wherever they've been. Think they don't have a part in how their offense functions?

And I know what your next response will be. "Well, Payton has Drew Brees". Well, so did Schottenheimer. He was QB coach for both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. And they sucked under him too.

We'll see if anyone hires Schottenheimer when he inevitably gets let go. If he gets a position any higher than some sort of offensive consultant I'd be surprised.

And just to re-iterate, its very possible Sanchez sucks. I'm not denying that. But Brett Favre didn't suck. Chad Pennington, for as much as we don't like him, didn't suck as bad as when he was playing under Schottenheimer. That's the point.

[Bleedin Green]

40+ worth of failure bottled into one specific person's 6 years. The 5 full seasons of that individual include 3 playoff appearances that include two trips to the AFCCG. Those AFCCG appearances came with a 13 start college junior turned Day 1 NFL starter. That same OC/QB combo is 2-3 into a season and you're jamming the panic button. It's kind of lazy to me. And for Matt Cavanaugh/Bill Calahan...yuch.

Oh goody, you managed to find yet ANOTHER excuse for Schotty. It's really the Jets franchise's fault that he ******* sucks at his job, gotcha. This is just getting really, really sad. Trying to play this off as a 2-3 panic reaction is just laughable considering that you know full well I, and a whole lot of others, have wanted him fired for years now, including immediately after each AFC Championship appearance. Trying to pretend otherwise makes you even more full of crap than it was already clear you are.

Let's be clear, nobody around here thinks he's the only problem with this team because he certainly is not, but what you can't seem to comprehend for years now is that does NOT mean that he isn't a problem, and a major one at that. By your moronic logic, you would never make a change at any position on your football team, player or coach, unless that person was the only person involved with the entire team that wasn't absolutely perfect at their job. You can't possibly be that stupid to believe that, so stupid using it as the most moronic excuse imaginable already.

I sure as hell don't love the idea of Cavanaugh or Callahan as OC either, but at least the latter has managed to coordinate a respectable offense at some point in his life and the former hasn't spent 6 years proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's incapable of doing it. Since Schotty has already proven time again that he is incapable of making this offense a respectable unit, they might as well give one of those two a shot for the second half of the season and see what they've got before they go OC shopping in the offseason, especially if the Jets have any intentions of possibly promoting one of them at that point anyway. At least that way if they are a complete failure for the rest of the season they can know that in advance and go a different direction in the offseason instead of giving the job to another guy who can't do it to save his life, but will get to keep it for years because well geez, he's a real nice guy and the head coach really likes him... and his dad is a really famous coach too!

The bottom line is there is literally no reason whatsoever that Schotty should be allowed to keep his job, only a list of bullsh*t excuses of why he shouldn't be fired and at some point that should be a wake-up call that he's simply not that good at what he does, and it's time for a change. These past 5 games haven't been some sudden shocker that have spent people in to panic as much as you try to lie that it is, it's simply been the continutation of the same exact sh*t we've seen for 6 years, and it needs to end.

[Bleedin Green]

I'd say its 50/50 Sanchez and Schottenheimer. I still say you can't fully blame the players for failing to execute when plays are designed to fail.

When receivers are running curl routes short of the first down marker CONSISTENTLY, or 3 receivers are ending up in the same spot on the field CONSISTENTLY, or Sanchez is looking down the field and no one is open CONSISTENTLY, or when we're running a belly up the middle for 1 yard CONSISTENTLY, or when people are saying our offense is predictable CONSISTENTLY, or when players on our own team are complaining about the offense, not Sanchez, CONSISTENTLY, or when Rex Ryan, who knows d*** about offense, is telling Schottenheimer and the press what he wants to do CONSISTENTLY (remember the red-yellow-green? "We need to get back to ground and pound"?), there's no way you can SOLELY pin this on Mark Sanchez.

And again, Gato, your little squirms when I talk about the defense are not going ignored. If Rex Ryan can consistently run a top 5 defense, then gameplanning DOES MATTER, even if you just want to cover your ears and say "la la la la". Yes, offense is different than defense, but it should tell you something when we've never finished higher than 16th in offense under Schottenheimer's leadership.

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job. Rex could just call the offensive plays off of Madden and blame it all on poor execution. But that's not how the game operates. Guys like Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, Chan Gailey and Mike McCarthy have run solid offenses wherever they've been. Think they don't have a part in how their offense functions?

And I know what your next response will be. "Well, Payton has Drew Brees". Well, so did Schottenheimer. He was QB coach for both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. And they sucked under him too.

We'll see if anyone hires Schottenheimer when he inevitably gets let go. If he gets a position any higher than some sort of offensive consultant I'd be surprised.

And just to re-iterate, its very possible Sanchez sucks. I'm not denying that. But Brett Favre didn't suck. Chad Pennington, for as much as we don't like him, didn't suck as bad as when he was playing under Schottenheimer. That's the point.

Very well said, agree with just about all of it, with one minor exception. I still like my idea of letting the tee kids call the plays as opposed to using Madden. Let the little kids have some fun, it's not like the play calls ever make any difference whatsoever anyway, right?

[Sperm Edwards]

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job. Rex could just call the offensive plays off of Madden and blame it all on poor execution.

Duh.

[JustInFudge]

I'd say its 50/50 Sanchez and Schottenheimer. I still say you can't fully blame the players for failing to execute when plays are designed to fail.

When receivers are running curl routes short of the first down marker CONSISTENTLY, or 3 receivers are ending up in the same spot on the field CONSISTENTLY, or Sanchez is looking down the field and no one is open CONSISTENTLY, or when we're running a belly up the middle for 1 yard CONSISTENTLY, or when people are saying our offense is predictable CONSISTENTLY, or when players on our own team are complaining about the offense, not Sanchez, CONSISTENTLY, or when Rex Ryan, who knows d*** about offense, is telling Schottenheimer and the press what he wants to do CONSISTENTLY (remember the red-yellow-green? "We need to get back to ground and pound"?), there's no way you can SOLELY pin this on Mark Sanchez.

And again, Gato, your little squirms when I talk about the defense are not going ignored. If Rex Ryan can consistently run a top 5 defense, then gameplanning DOES MATTER, even if you just want to cover your ears and say "la la la la". Yes, offense is different than defense, but it should tell you something when we've never finished higher than 16th in offense under Schottenheimer's leadership.

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job. Rex could just call the offensive plays off of Madden and blame it all on poor execution. But that's not how the game operates. Guys like Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, Chan Gailey and Mike McCarthy have run solid offenses wherever they've been. Think they don't have a part in how their offense functions?

And I know what your next response will be. "Well, Payton has Drew Brees". Well, so did Schottenheimer. He was QB coach for both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. And they sucked under him too.

We'll see if anyone hires Schottenheimer when he inevitably gets let go. If he gets a position any higher than some sort of offensive consultant I'd be surprised.

And just to re-iterate, its very possible Sanchez sucks. I'm not denying that. But Brett Favre didn't suck. Chad Pennington, for as much as we don't like him, didn't suck as bad as when he was playing under Schottenheimer. That's the point.

Great post. h8u

Rex Ryan's game planning had ntohing to do with shutting down Manning, Brady and Big Rape in the playoffs. It was all talent and execution.

[Aten]

The bottom line is there is literally no reason whatsoever that Schotty should be allowed to keep his job, only a list of bullsh*t excuses of why he shouldn't be fired and at some point that should be a wake-up call that he's simply not that good at what he does, and it's time for a change.

I think the fact that so many people are so much more certain of this than the information available to them can actually justify is a really great reason to reach the opposite conclusion.

[SenorGato]

Yet you still have faith in the passing game.

Why not? Everythings been etched into the stone and the season is set?

[Bleedin Green]

I think the fact that so many people are so much more certain of this than the information available to them can actually justify is a really great reason to reach the opposite conclusion.

Perhaps sometimes things really are as simple as they seem, and the truth really is that blatantly obvious. I know you really just enjoy being as difficult as possible, but the idea that people being too confident in their opinions on its own gives the opposite opinion any legitimacy, despite absolutely no logical support for it, has to be one of the single most ridiculous stances imaginable. So essentially the stance is Schotty should remain OC because people are far too confident that he's absolutely god awful at his job, and the chief reasons supporting his retaining his job are nothing more than a list of excuses why it's not all his fault (which no reasonable person believes to be the case). Your logic is the same that would lead one to the conclusion that Chad Pennington was one of the best QBs in NFL history, which should tell you all you really need to know about the kind of value it holds.

And hate to break it to you, and I know this one is going to sting, that logic also suggests that there's absolutely no reason to even consider replacing Sanchez anytime soon.

[Aten]

Perhaps sometimes things really are as simple as they seem, and the truth really is that blatantly obvious.

How do things seem? Enlighten me. I watch players play all the time but I've never seen a coordinator coordinate, so apportioning responsibility for the offense's performance other than among the eleven moving parts on the field at a given time seems anything but obvious.

[Jetsfan80]

How do things seem? Enlighten me. I watch players play all the time but I've never seen a coordinator coordinate, so apportioning responsibility for the offense's performance other than among the eleven moving parts on the field at a given time seems anything but obvious.

Looking at overall performance of the offense would be a start. You have 6 years of data at your disposal. How you want to twist and turn it is up to you.

[Bleedin Green]

How do things seem? Enlighten me. I watch players play all the time but I've never seen a coordinator coordinate, so apportioning responsibility for the offense's performance other than among the eleven moving parts on the field at a given time seems anything but obvious.

So you mean to tell me you're incapable of drawing logical conclusions when there is clear evidence of consistent issues repeated over the course of a 6 period over which time the only constants that exist are three offensive lineman and an offensive coordinator? Although maybe you're right, perhaps the constant problems in that time period are all the fault of Mangold, Moore and Ferguson. It must be their doing when multiple times per game the entire football viewing world knows a run up the gut is coming on a play that proceeds to see the defense put 9 men in the box and go for no to minimal gains. Or perhaps it's the fault of the dozen or so different receivers that have come and gone over the past 6 years that they all happen to be running routes that direct them to the same spot on the field or have every one of them stopping short of the first down marker on third down.

Isn't it such an amazing coincidence that regardless of who is playing in the Jets offense, they all happen to be making the same exact mistakes despite the fact that there is no evidence to show that they have ever had these issues at any other point in their careers? And there's definitely no correlation to be drawn between Schotty and the fact that every QB that has been coached by him has performed at their worst under him.

If it's asking too much for you to evaluate and draw conclusions based on all of the evidence presented then so be it, but sorry to say that doesn't make anyone else who does so wrong.

[Aten]

So you mean to tell me you're incapable of drawing logical conclusions when there is clear evidence of consistent issues repeated over the course of a 6 period over which time the only constants that exist are three offensive lineman and an offensive coordinator? Although maybe you're right, perhaps the constant problems in that time period are all the fault of Mangold, Moore and Ferguson. It must be their doing when multiple times per game the entire football viewing world knows a run up the gut is coming on a play that proceeds to see the defense put 9 men in the box and go for no to minimal gains. Or perhaps it's the fault of the dozen or so different receivers that have come and gone over the past 6 years that they all happen to be running routes that direct them to the same spot on the field or have every one of them stopping short of the first down marker on third down.

Isn't it such an amazing coincidence that regardless of who is playing in the Jets offense, they all happen to be making the same exact mistakes despite the fact that there is no evidence to show that they have ever had these issues at any other point in their careers? And there's definitely no correlation to be drawn between Schotty and the fact that every QB that has been coached by him has performed at their worst under him.

If it's asking too much for you to evaluate and draw conclusions based on all of the evidence presented then so be it, but sorry to say that doesn't make anyone else who does so wrong.

No. But thinking any of this is evidence makes them stupid.

[Bleedin Green]

No. But thinking any of this is evidence makes them stupid.

The thing I find funny, is for someone who clearly perceives himself to be so much more intelligent than everyone else, there's really some very simple concepts that you are completely incapable of grasping. But as well all know, if things don't fight into the neat little box which you have ultimately decided is the proper means to look at things, that it is immediately dismissed as wrong. The fact is your own beliefs contradict each other on a rather routine basis, as all it really comes down to is whether or not things align with your own opinion, which are almost never supported by the standards which you hold everyone else's arguments to, and in reality have everything to do with your own feelings and nothing to do with any sort of perceived proper and improper means of evaluating anything. I'm still not sure if that makes you even more stupid than those you so often look down upon, or just that much more full of sh*t.

[Bleedin Green]

Oh, and has anyone else noticed that the standard Aten argument really boils down to:

"Here is my opinion on the subject. I completely refuse to give any support to my opinion whatsoever, but it is unquestionably correct. Rather, I will merely discount any and all dissenting opinions as wrong, despite any evidence or legitimate arguments to the contrary, on the basis that your stance is invalid due to the fact that I have proclaimed it as such. I have absolutely no need to support my opinion being superior to yours as my word alone is evidence enough. If you do not agree with that, it is only because you are stupid, and I am far more intelligent than all of you."

I really think my favorite part is that he's proven time and again to be completely incapable of actually forming a coherent argument to support his opinions and somehow thinks just because he goes about it in a much more long-winded, big-worded means of talking down to everyone, that people are too stupid realize his arguments essentially boil down to nothing more than "NUH UH!"

[Matt39]

Oh, and has anyone else noticed that the standard Aten argument really boils down to:

"Here is my opinion on the subject. I completely refuse to give any support to my opinion whatsoever, but it is unquestionably correct. Rather, I will merely discount any and all dissenting opinions as wrong, despite any evidence or legitimate arguments to the contrary, on the basis that your stance is invalid due to the fact that I have proclaimed it as such. I have absolutely no need to support my opinion being superior to yours as my word alone is evidence enough. If you do not agree with that, it is only because you are stupid, and I am far more intelligent than all of you."

I really think my favorite part is that he's proven time and again to be completely incapable of actually forming a coherent argument to support his opinions and somehow thinks just because he goes about it in a much more long-winded, big-worded means of talking down to everyone, that people are too stupid realize his arguments essentially boil down to nothing more than "NUH UH!"

He uses a lot of words to make short points. That I do know.

[SenorGato]

Oh goody, you managed to find yet ANOTHER excuse for Schotty.

What are you talking about?

What I replied to:

Yeah, I hate when fans overreact to a mere 6 years worth of failures. Geez, give the guy some time, right?

I can't believe you went on that long from that...It's like there was 40+ years of frustration let out...

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job.

Kevlar vest for Sanchez.

[SenorGato]

I'd say its 50/50 Sanchez and Schottenheimer. I still say you can't fully blame the players for failing to execute when plays are designed to fail.

I'd say it's 75% Sanchez and 25% everyone else, including Schottenheimer. While you like to imagine there is in this case, there is no such thing as a play designed to fail.

When receivers are running curl routes short of the first down marker CONSISTENTLY, or 3 receivers are ending up in the same spot on the field CONSISTENTLY, or Sanchez is looking down the field and no one is open CONSISTENTLY, or when we're running a belly up the middle for 1 yard CONSISTENTLY, or when people are saying our offense is predictable CONSISTENTLY, or when players on our own team are complaining about the offense, not Sanchez, CONSISTENTLY, or when Rex Ryan, who knows d*** about offense, is telling Schottenheimer and the press what he wants to do CONSISTENTLY (remember the red-yellow-green? "We need to get back to ground and pound"?), there's no way you can SOLELY pin this on Mark Sanchez.

1. You're blowing literally everything here completely out of proportion. Who the hell designs and practices 3 WRs ending up in roughly the same area?

2. The Jets' offense under Schottenheimer back when he had to bs an offense with Pennington/Clemens were consistently praised for being unpredictable, particularly the 10 win '06 team.

3. What is wrong with the HC talking about offense to the press? "We need to go back to ground and pound" and stop stoplight system that was around for a week or two is some kind of sign of something other than "we can't trust the QB?" Plus, do you realize how badly NY sports reporting needs this stuff, and that Rex has been more than willing to comply?

4. What exactly are the barometers for consistently here? How often does a Jet player complain about the offense? I read Holmes' latest supposedly inflammatory statement and lawled at how

And again, Gato, your little squirms when I talk about the defense are not going ignored. If Rex Ryan can consistently run a top 5 defense, then gameplanning DOES MATTER, even if you just want to cover your ears and say "la la la la". Yes, offense is different than defense, but it should tell you something when we've never finished higher than 16th in offense under Schottenheimer's leadership.

If gameplanning doesn't matter, then Schottenheimer doesn't have a job. Rex could just call the offensive plays off of Madden and blame it all on poor execution. But that's not how the game operates. Guys like Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, Chan Gailey and Mike McCarthy have run solid offenses wherever they've been. Think they don't have a part in how their offense functions?

Squirms? Over what? How does Rex consistently running a top 5 D give credence to the magic powers of gameplanning? That's the reason he's been able to pump out top 5 D's? It's not because he's had guys like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Darrelle Revis, Bart Scott, David Harris, Calvin Pace, Trevor Pryce, Shaun Ellis, and on and on play for him? Hell, where have I even said gameplanning is unnecessary? Bill Belichick and Tom Brady probably spend a hell of a lot of time gameplanning (or at least Belichick does). The difference is that that c word QB goes out there and *makes it f'n happen* on Sunday. That is what a QB is supposed to do, period (I wish this is where I had to stop writing).

I already mentioned him being a kevlar vest for Sanchez as his job. What else...Rex couldn't do that because the players aren't a video game...the game operates by players executing plays, not what the coaches gameplanned to happen during the time before the game....Guys like Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, Chan Gailey, and Mike McCarthy have taken a shyteton of absolute garbage from fans and even employers during their career, give me a break with that...there isn't a single guy listed there who hasn't been ripped for incompetence by a fanbase....Wasn't Chan Gailey the butt of many a joke just last year? Like Schottenheimer, they certainly know how an offense functions and even how to make it tick. Also like Schottenheimer, what they know doesn't mean anything if the players don't get it done. That getting it done starts with the QB.

And I know what your next response will be. "Well, Payton has Drew Brees". Well, so did Schottenheimer. He was QB coach for both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. And they sucked under him too.

Whoa, really? Yeah, and no they didn't suck. Although now you can just move it around a little like maybe since they didn't suck they didn't suck because someone else did something else and Schitty was just the QB coach. Just because Schittenheimer was their QB coach doesn't mean he had anything to do with what became of them, amirite!!?!? I bet most of the reason he got the Jets' job is because of the work he did with Brees and Rivers...Actually, wouldn't that make the most sense? No, not here...It's daddy's connections and name plus the stupidity and ignorance of the Jets, no doubt.

We'll see if anyone hires Schottenheimer when he inevitably gets let go. If he gets a position any higher than some sort of offensive consultant I'd be surprised.

Be very prepared to be surprised then. He's going to leave here a pretty hot name, and even if he doesn't he'd probably land an coordinator job fairly easily.

And just to re-iterate, its very possible Sanchez sucks. I'm not denying that. But Brett Favre didn't suck. Chad Pennington, for as much as we don't like him, didn't suck as bad as when he was playing under Schottenheimer. That's the point.

Yea um...Chad Pennington won the CPOTY award with Schottenheimer as a rookie OC...10 games and a playoff trip remember? Then CP did the whole wrecked shoulder thing again in 2007....Brett Favre lead a team that finished 9th in points scored in '08 even with him crapping the bed in the second half of the season....Your point is a little hard to work with because it's less based on reality than you believe it to be. Far less based in reality really...

[Aten]

Oh, and has anyone else noticed that the standard Aten argument really boils down to:

"Here is my opinion on the subject. I completely refuse to give any support to my opinion whatsoever, but it is unquestionably correct. Rather, I will merely discount any and all dissenting opinions as wrong, despite any evidence or legitimate arguments to the contrary, on the basis that your stance is invalid due to the fact that I have proclaimed it as such. I have absolutely no need to support my opinion being superior to yours as my word alone is evidence enough. If you do not agree with that, it is only because you are stupid, and I am far more intelligent than all of you."

I really think my favorite part is that he's proven time and again to be completely incapable of actually forming a coherent argument to support his opinions and somehow thinks just because he goes about it in a much more long-winded, big-worded means of talking down to everyone, that people are too stupid realize his arguments essentially boil down to nothing more than "NUH UH!"

I think we just disagree as to whether your thoughts warrant much more than a 'nuh-uh,' but here goes. The only constants are three lineman and Schottenheimer? You have to be kidding me. How about uniformly crappy talent not only at quarterback but at all of the skill positions? Seems like that's been a constant that would be relevant to the discussion. I mean, seriously look what he's had to work with. Holmes, half a season of Favre just having fun out there, and nothing. Yes, our offense has been mediocre to awful the entire time Schottenheimer has been here, but I don't think it's been any worse than you'd expect given the actual players we've been putting on the field. The stuff about receivers running to the same place and third down plays short of the sticks is just pointless. If you insist on believing something so ridiculous as that those things have anything to do with how the plays are drawn up and called, I'm not going to argue with you. And every team does the run up the gut for minimal gain when the entire world knows it's coming. They will always do it. It will never go away.

[RutgersJetFan]

I mean, seriously look what he's had to work with. Holmes, half a season of Favre just having fun out there, and nothing. Yes, our offense has been mediocre to awful the entire time Schottenheimer has been here, but I don't think it's been any worse than you'd expect given the actual players we've been putting on the field.

[Bleedin Green]

I think we just disagree as to whether your thoughts warrant much more than a 'nuh-uh,' but here goes. The only constants are three lineman and Schottenheimer? You have to be kidding me. How about uniformly crappy talent not only at quarterback but at all of the skill positions? Seems like that's been a constant that would be relevant to the discussion. I mean, seriously look what he's had to work with. Holmes, half a season of Favre just having fun out there, and nothing. Yes, our offense has been mediocre to awful the entire time Schottenheimer has been here, but I don't think it's been any worse than you'd expect given the actual players we've been putting on the field. The stuff about receivers running to the same place and third down plays short of the sticks is just pointless. If you insist on believing something so ridiculous as that those things have anything to do with how the plays are drawn up and called, I'm not going to argue with you. And every team does the run up the gut for minimal gain when the entire world knows it's coming. They will always do it. It will never go away.

As always, not a single piece of evidence supporting any reason why he's any good at his job or deserves to keep it, rather nothing but a list of excuses as to why it's not his fault that this offense has sucked for 6 years, and it's just pure coincidence that completely different sets of player year after year keep doing the same things in this offense that are never successful for Schotty's entire tenure here, while it's clearly all the players' fault. Yeah, it certainly seems much more reasonable to assume that 5 different players all made the same exact mistake at the same moment on the same play than to think it had anything to do with the play call.

[Bleedin Green]

Oh, and isn't it so weird that Brees had his worst game of the season when his offensive play-caller was taken out of the game? What an amazing coincidence that is, given how we all know that the play-caller obviously has absolutely no impact on the performance of the offense.