Rex Ryan is a 1-Dimensional Head Coach?

[THE ILK]

Door slams shut

[tparich]

I'd say it's 75% Sanchez and 25% everyone else, including Schottenheimer. While you like to imagine there is in this case, there is no such thing as a play designed to fail.

Wow. I don't think I could possible disagree with anything more then this.

With this logic they could throw up each play on the jumbotron before it happens and it should still be successful as long as the players execution is good enough since it's designed that way and all.

[#27TheDominator]

Oh, and isn't it so weird that Brees had his worst game of the season when his offensive play-caller was taken out of the game? What an amazing coincidence that is, given how we all know that the play-caller obviously has absolutely no impact on the performance of the offense.

Interesting that mention this, seeing how the Saints offensive coordinator, Pete Carmichael Jr, was an underling of Schottenheimer at San Diego.

[SenorGato]

Wow. I don't think I could possible disagree with anything more then this.

With this logic they could throw up each play on the jumbotron before it happens and it should still be successful as long as the players execution is good enough since it's designed that way and all.

Teams know what the Pats are going to do to them week in and week out. Teams know what the Colts were doing with Manning week in and week out. Teams know what the Saints are doing. Teams know what the Steelers are doing nowadays since the Bettis/Willie Parker combo went away...Yes, a play will be successful no matter what if the team executes it as it was meant to be executed. Great QBs and players make sure it happens, because their muhf'n job.

[tparich]

Teams know what the Pats are going to do to them week in and week out. Teams know what the Colts were doing with Manning week in and week out. Teams know what the Saints are doing. Teams know what the Steelers are doing nowadays since the Bettis/Willie Parker combo went away...Yes, a play will be successful no matter what if the team executes it as it was meant to be executed. Great QBs and players make sure it happens, because their muhf'n job.

No they don't. yeah sure they are pass heavy offenses but they don't know who it's going to be passed to or where on the field it's going.

NE outsmarted the Jets on that last drive because Rex was expecting pass. This drive would be more of a case where we were outsmarted rather then outplayed.

Just curious if you feel the same way about defenses since other then Prevent there are no defensive plays designed to give up yards.

[SenorGato]

No they don't. yeah sure they are pass heavy offenses but they don't know who it's going to be passed to or where on the field it's going.

NE outsmarted the Jets on that last drive because Rex was expecting pass. This drive would be more of a case where we were outsmarted rather then outplayed.

Just curious if you feel the same way about defenses since other then Prevent there are no defensive plays designed to give up yards.

1. They outsmarted the Jets because the Jets respect the f out of their passing game, because they HAVE to respect the f out of their passing game.

2. They respect the f out of the passing game for a reason that goes beyond their OC (whoever that even is - keep in mind that position didn't exist with the Pats for at least one season) calling the right passing plays.

3. They don't know who the ball with be passed to because while Brady favors Welker, he spreads the ball to everyone in an offense that likes to spread both ball and field.

Defense is personnel based too...The fact is you need horses who get sh*t done on the field on Sunday.

[Sperm Edwards]

Interesting that mention this, seeing how the Saints offensive coordinator, Pete Carmichael Jr, was an underling of Schottenheimer at San Diego.

Dominator is holding his big wooden spoon. The pot has been stirred.

[#27TheDominator]

No they don't. yeah sure they are pass heavy offenses but they don't know who it's going to be passed to or where on the field it's going.

NE outsmarted the Jets on that last drive because Rex was expecting pass. This drive would be more of a case where we were outsmarted rather then outplayed.

Just curious if you feel the same way about defenses since other then Prevent there are no defensive plays designed to give up yards.

What do you think is more likely?

1. The Jets offensive scheme has only plays designed with one option;

or

2. Sanchez is unable to quickly select the proper option on plays

It's easy to design a play where you split a defender or aim away from safety help or get a faster player covered by a slower player. The problem is that you don't always know which one of those you will get on any given play. It's the job of the QB to see the mismatch and take advantage.

[tparich]

What do you think is more likely?

1. The Jets offensive scheme has only plays designed with one option;

or

2. Sanchez is unable to quickly select the proper option on plays

It's easy to design a play where you split a defender or aim away from safety help or get a faster player covered by a slower player. The problem is that you don't always know which one of those you will get on any given play. It's the job of the QB to see the mismatch and take advantage.

I don't disagree with what your saying here.

As far as this year goes I would question the amount of time Sanchez is getting to make proper reads.

It seems like he only has time to get to maybe the 2nd option.

[tparich]

1. They outsmarted the Jets because the Jets respect the f out of their passing game, because they HAVE to respect the f out of their passing game.

2. They respect the f out of the passing game for a reason that goes beyond their OC (whoever that even is - keep in mind that position didn't exist with the Pats for at least one season) calling the right passing plays.

3. They don't know who the ball with be passed to because while Brady favors Welker, he spreads the ball to everyone in an offense that likes to spread both ball and field.

Defense is personnel based too...The fact is you need horses who get sh*t done on the field on Sunday.

Gato i'm not trying to say this is all on Shotty. I would imagine that if we fired him and he went to NE then all of the sudden he would seem like a great OC again. While I do think that talent and execution can overcome some bad play calling I also think that great play calling boost the production of average players. Ultimately football is a strategy game and IMO the strategy of it has to account for more then 25%.

[#27TheDominator]

Dominator is holding his big wooden spoon. The pot has been stirred.

A wooden spoon? That's not good. In my house if the wooden spoon comes out somebody is getting a beating.

[JohnnyHector]

A wooden spoon? That's not good. In my house if the wooden spoon comes out somebody is getting a beating.

My kids don't have any idea how easy they've got it.

[CTM]

I'd say its 50/50 Sanchez and Schottenheimer. I still say you can't fully blame the players for failing to execute when plays are designed to fail.

lol...so what we need to do is have someone tell rex to make schotty start designing plays to suceed..

[Sperm Edwards]

A wooden spoon? That's not good. In my house if the wooden spoon comes out somebody is getting a beating.

A spanking! A spanking!

[CTM]

I for one think we should have a top 3 offense and am pretty pissed off that we don't... the fact that we can't run the ball or open holes, our qb can't hit the broad side of a barn and our oline can't pass block isn't really a hinderance imo..

[#27TheDominator]

My kids don't have any idea how easy they've got it.

You're not kidding. Everytime I visit my mom and I hear that drawer open I sit up straight.

A spanking! A spanking!

and after the spanking, the oral sex!

[SMC]

While you like to imagine there is in this case, there is no such thing as a play designed to fail.

All 5 receivers running 4 yd patterns on 3rd & 6 says hello.

Did Schitty purposely call a play intending for it to fail? No. Did he call a play that would only be succesful if a bunch of defenders fell down? Yes.

Plus, if it's always about execution and not about playcalling, wouldn't you think after 6 yrs Schitty would get the clue to make something that is easier to execute?

The players change, the opponents change, but the O is usually in the middle of the road at best, but mainly in the bottom half, every year.

Schitty's problem is that failure has been rewarded so he has no incentive to improve. It's the Mangini syndrom. The Browns rewarded Mangini's failure so it gave him the false sense that his "system" works. No, it doesn't. Now he has an opportunity for self evaluation.

Sean Payton got stripped of his playcalling duties TWICE, by two different organizations. He evolved and learned from his failures.

[Bleedin Green]

I for one think we should have a top 3 offense and am pretty pissed off that we don't... the fact that we can't run the ball or open holes, our qb can't hit the broad side of a barn and our oline can't pass block isn't really a hinderance imo..

Herm Edwards and Chad Pennington don't suck, it's all Doug Brien's fault!!!

[Bleedin Green]

You're not kidding. Everytime I visit my mom and I hear that drawer open I sit up straight.

and after the spanking, the oral sex!

I'll have you know having these two comments back to back is really, really, really creepy for those who don't get the reference in the latter comment. That said, great reference.

[CTM]

Herm Edwards and Chad Pennington don't suck, it's all Doug Brien's fault!!!

THere's no question that coaches make bad decisions, strategic decisions are just a lot easier to spot (like kneeling for a longer FG, or Jason Garret yesterday, I was dumbfounded that they played not to lose at the end there).. Critiquing scheme is much tougher... too much involved for anyone watching on a TV screen to really know whose at fault..

At the end of the day what I know is we've had bad QB's here for the last 5 years, you can't really expect a top offense with a sh*tty qb

[CTM]

Sean Payton got stripped of his playcalling duties TWICE, by two different organizations. He evolved and learned from his failures.

Yeah, he went out and got himself an all pro qb.. lol

[Bleedin Green]

THere's no question that coaches make bad decisions, strategic decisions are just a lot easier to spot (like kneeling for a longer FG, or Jason Garret yesterday, I was dumbfounded that they played not to lose at the end there).. Critiquing scheme is much tougher... too much involved for anyone watching on a TV screen to really know whose at fault..

At the end of the day what I know is we've had bad QB's here for the last 5 years, you can't really expect a top offense with a sh*tty qb

All I know is that with perhaps the lone exception of LT, pretty much every single player who has played in this offense has been significantly better immediately before and immediately after being in this offense, than while actually being in it. I also know that for 6 years, we've watched offenses with countless different players changing over the years doing the same ridiculously stupid a$$ sh*t on the field over and over again, with the only common trend being Brick, Mangold, Moore and of course... Schotty. And I'm pretty sure none of the former 3 are responsible for 3 WRs running to the same spot on the f'n field, or having every single receiver on the field cutting routes off short of the first down marker. Of course that doesn't excuse the crappiness of Sanchez or anyone else, but there's still more than enough proof that the guy is simply no good at his job.

Frankly, all but about 6 teams in the league have been playing with crappy QBs for that same entire time period, but some of them still manage to have at least a slightly respectable offense and considering the OL the Jets have had up until this season, there's no reason the Jets shouldn't have been one of them.

[SMC]

Yeah, he went out and got himself an all pro qb.. lol

That does help.

It reminds me of the old Steve Martin SNL infomercial skit: "How to Become a Millionaire." Step 1: Get a million dollars.

[CTM]

All I know is that with perhaps the lone exception of LT, pretty much every single player who has played in this offense has been significantly better immediately before and immediately after being in this offense, than while actually being in it.

You don't know that.. not sure why you have such a blindspot to this.. pennington and favre both had worse seasons before and after.. thats a fact

[#27TheDominator]

All 5 receivers running 4 yd patterns on 3rd & 6 says hello.

Did Schitty purposely call a play intending for it to fail? No. Did he call a play that would only be succesful if a bunch of defenders fell down? Yes.

The fallacy is that being the play called. Besides the exaggeration, I don't think he calls patterns too short, I think the time hasn't been there for Sanchez to sit in the pocket and throw them. You want easy to execute plays like a fullback standing wide open at the marker? Why doesn't he call those?

I'll have you know having these two comments back to back is really, really, really creepy for those who don't get the reference in the latter comment. That said, great reference.

Ha! I guess sometimes I do fall in love with the multiquote.

[Bleedin Green]

Yeah, he went out and got himself an all pro qb.. lol

Actually, Brees wasn't an All Pro before becoming the QB for the Saints, and was also coming off the dreaded throwing-shoulder injury (OH NO!). He was a 0x All-Pro and 1x Pro Bowler while with the Chargers (coached by the great Brian Schottenheimer) and a 3x All-Pro and 4x Pro Bowler since going to the Saints.

Just saying.

[CTM]

Actually, Brees wasn't an All Pro before becoming the QB for the Saints, and was also coming off the dreaded throwing-shoulder injury (OH NO!). He was a 0x All-Pro and 1x Pro Bowler while with the Chargers (coached by the great Brian Schottenheimer) and a 3x All-Pro and 4x Pro Bowler since going to the Saints.

Just saying.

dome

[Matt39]

Brees on the Saints is a HOF QB. Brees on the Chargers is a good QB.

[#27TheDominator]

All I know is that with perhaps the lone exception of LT, pretty much every single player who has played in this offense has been significantly better immediately before and immediately after being in this offense, than while actually being in it. I also know that for 6 years, we've watched offenses with countless different players changing over the years doing the same ridiculously stupid a$$ sh*t on the field over and over again, with the only common trend being Brick, Mangold, Moore and of course... Schotty. And I'm pretty sure none of the former 3 are responsible for 3 WRs running to the same spot on the f'n field, or having every single receiver on the field cutting routes off short of the first down marker. Of course that doesn't excuse the crappiness of Sanchez or anyone else, but there's still more than enough proof that the guy is simply no good at his job.

Frankly, all but about 6 teams in the league have been playing with crappy QBs for that same entire time period, but some of them still manage to have at least a slightly respectable offense and considering the OL the Jets have had up until this season, there's no reason the Jets shouldn't have been one of them.

Thomas Jones? Damien Woody? Faneca? Cotchery and Edwards are sure tearing it up this year, aren't they? Coles? Chris Baker? I guess that was because the Pats don't know how to use tight ends.

[Bleedin Green]

You don't know that.. not sure why you have such a blindspot to this.. pennington and favre both had worse seasons before and after.. thats a fact

Holy sh*t... I don't know how many times we need to have this same conversation. I can't get if you really are incapable of comprehending the point or have gone so far into the realm of being the argumentative prick just for the hell of it that that you can't even acknowledge any argument that doesn't fit into your agenda of simply being a pain in the a$$.

The point is not that they have never had a bad season at any other point in their careers. It's the point that just about every player, QB or otherwise, for their entire time in Schotty's offense, has performed at a level that is right on par with the worst of their careers. In addition, a great many have had substantially more success in the seasons immediately before and/or after these crappy seasons with Schotty. It's not that they could not ever possibly play that badly under any other circumstance, but it is that while coaches jobs are to get the best out of their players, Schotty seems to consistently get their worst out of them.

[CTM]

Holy sh*t... I don't know how many times we need to have this same conversation. I can't get if you really are incapable of comprehending the point or have gone so far into the realm of being the argumentative prick just for the hell of it that that you can't even acknowledge any argument that doesn't fit into your agenda of simply being a pain in the a$$.

The point is not that they have never had a bad season at any other point in their careers. It's the point that just about every player, QB or otherwise, for their entire time in Schotty's offense, has performed at a level that is right on par with the worst of their careers. In addition, a great many have had substantially more success in the seasons immediately before and/or after these crappy seasons with Schotty. It's not that they could not ever possibly play that badly under any other circumstance, but it is that while coaches jobs are to get the best out of their players, Schotty seems to consistently get their worst out of them.

it's an absurdly stupid point, I'm trying to help you here

[Bleedin Green]

Thomas Jones? Damien Woody? Faneca? Cotchery and Edwards are sure tearing it up this year, aren't they? Coles? Chris Baker? I guess that was because the Pats don't know how to use tight ends.

Jones was solid with the Bears, solid with the Jets, sucked by the end of his time with the Jets, sucked a little less his first year with the Chiefs, and is back to sucking this year. Not sure that really proves a point either way. Woody was great with the Pats although was in rough shape by the end of his time in Detroit, so I suppose it's a fair point. Faneca? LOL. That one's a joke, right? Cotchery was actually the one guy who I was going to go back and give him credit for. Cotch sucked last year, so this year isn't much of a shocker, but Schotty does get credit for his earlier success given the guy never saw the field under Herm. Coles? Meh, I'd say he was better in his first run with the Jets and his time with the Redskins than his run under Schotty, but it certainly wasn't a significant difference, so I won't argue that one too much. Baker? Seriously? Guy was awful here and everywhere else, and I won't even put that one on Schotty, but he actually put up comparable number in his one season as a Pats backup as he did his last year as the Jets' starter.

I mean, if we really want to sit here and go through every single player to step foot on the Jets offense over the past 6 years we can, but that's not the point. The fact that you came up with a grand total of 6 players over 6 years who didn't suck more with the Jets than other teams (some of whom I wouldn't agree with at all) isn't exactly my idea of a great defense. Of course the issue is not ALL Schotty's fault, and the players deserve their share of the blame, but the point is that while coaches can only coach and not do it on the field themselves, it is their job to get the best out of their players, and there's little to no evidence to support Schotty ever doing that, with perhaps the exceptions of Cotchery, LT (given his last couple of years in San Diego) and a few guys who at least didn't suck significantly more under his guidance.

[Bleedin Green]

it's an absurdly stupid point, I'm trying to help you here

Says the guy who's entire argument is based on the concept that Schotty can't be to blame because despite the fact that there is literally not one single shred of evidence to suggest he's any good at his job, there are other people to share the blame, so he suddenly becomes blameless. And to think how disgusted you used to become with people who had that same basis for their idiotic arguments.

I mean honestly, if anyone around here can present something other than a list of bullsh*t excuses as to why Schotty is any good at his job, I would LOVE to hear it.

[Sperm Edwards]

Thomas Jones? Damien Woody? Faneca? Cotchery and Edwards are sure tearing it up this year, aren't they? Coles? Chris Baker? I guess that was because the Pats don't know how to use tight ends.

Don't forget the "I bet he goes to the pro bowl now" stuff when we let Victor Hobson go and the Pats picked him up.

And we've lost so many more games because we didn't give in to Leon Washington's starter-money demands. Tannenbaum also cut ties with inherited starters Dewayne Robertson, David Barrett, and Eric Barton, among others.

[Bleedin Green]

Don't forget the "I bet he goes to the pro bowl now" stuff when we let Victor Hobson go and the Pats picked him up.

And we've lost so many more games because we didn't give in to Leon Washington's starter-money demands. Tannenbaum also cut ties with inherited starters Dewayne Robertson, David Barrett, and Eric Barton, among others.

Excuse me, this is a discussion about players playing at their worst under Schotty, nothing to do with Tanny or the D. Geez, try to pay attention.