RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Rutgers --- Not everyone sucks man wonder if people were saying Jim Plunket sucked before he won his SB after being labeled a total bust in NE. Its obvious Cutler is loaded with talent the question is can he turn that into a SB This makes no sense. You're arguing potential over results for a 28-year-old in his 6th season. His conventional numbers are unimpressively pedestrian. Efficiency numbers are pathetic. Actually watching him play doesn't do much to give the impression that maybe the numbers aren't telling the whole story. But hey, he has a wicked strong arm, that excuses everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Nor is the conclusion so clear cut as to prove the point. True, but it's far less absurd to argue the relative worth of Jay Cutler before and after than it is to suggest that it even merits discussion as a fit to "the formula". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Meh, I've watched him enough to see he's definitely not Sanchez. He does things, in the pocket, with his arm, that Sanchez will never be able to do. That and he throws to a bunch of Jags. I'll take him 100x over Sanchez and never think twice about it. Sure he does. He has a strong arm, and that's about it. I'm not even sure what the rest means. So would every single person with a brain. What's your point? One's less retarded than another. Almost no measure of anything puts Cutler above ranging between awful and slightly below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 True, but it's far less absurd to argue the relative worth of Jay Cutler before and after than it is to suggest that it even merits discussion as a fit to "the formula". No no, please, as someone who gets forced into the local sh*t and has to sit through Nuke on a weekly basis, let's discuss the relative worth of Jay Cutler. Please, let's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, still, this season moving from 23 to 20 is the best example we've got. Is there anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, still, this season moving from 23 to 20 is the best example we've got. Is there anything else? 36th and 30th to 25th and 30th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, still, this season moving from 23 to 20 is the best example we've got. Is there anything else? Kirk Ferentz taking over and helping a 32-year old Vinny Testaverde throw for 4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's, and make his first Pro Bowl in leading the Ravens to a 4-12 record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Kirk Ferentz taking over and helping a 32-year old Vinny Testaverde throw for 4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's, and make his first Pro Bowl in leading the Ravens to a 4-12 record? Sign this beast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, still, this season moving from 23 to 20 is the best example we've got. Is there anything else? I remember lots of times people predicted this would happen, but never actually happening.. Heck HeimerDinger was going to get out of Chad's way and allow him to ascend to his rightful place at the top of the QB pile, cause it was Hackett that made him so conservative.. Carr in Texas was going to benefit from new OC, Alex Smith was going to benefit from Martz, Bradford from Josh McDaniels, etc.. Same old same old, some people <3 their QB's and don't learn that the coordinator isn't nearly as responsible for the QB's success then the QB himself, and the Oline, and the WR's and the RB's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cutlers last year in Denver "his so called great year" 25 TD 18 INT (2008) hardly a great year and very erratic. AND he could not keep his mouth shut which is not good for a QB representing an organization unfortunately it comes with the position. Also Martz came into Chicago when Cutler had already been there for a year so I guess I was not far off. This year Cutler started playing well with a year under his belt in Martz System and was on pace to throw much less INT's than in previous years currenty has 7. yes less TD's (13) as well but his team was winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I remember lots of times people predicted this would happen, but never actually happening.. Heck HeimerDinger was going to get out of Chad's way and allow him to ascend to his rightful place at the top of the QB pile, cause it was Hackett that made him so conservative.. Carr in Texas was going to benefit from new OC, Alex Smith was going to benefit from Martz, Bradford from Josh McDaniels, etc.. Same old same old, some people <3 their QB's and don't learn that the coordinator isn't nearly as responsible for the QB's success then the QB himself, and the Oline, and the WR's and the RB's... Wow. It's almost as if that might have been my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This makes no sense. You're arguing potential over results for a 28-year-old in his 6th season. His conventional numbers are unimpressively pedestrian. Efficiency numbers are pathetic. Actually watching him play doesn't do much to give the impression that maybe the numbers aren't telling the whole story. But hey, he has a wicked strong arm, that excuses everything. What Im saying is he has done better under Martz and was continuing to do well this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What we have seen with the Jets is the exact opposite, though. Favre comes to Jets and has a mediocre season between good ones in GB and Minny. Pennington leaves Schottenheimer and has his best year since 2002. So while changing coordinators might not be a panacea for Sanchez, it really probably won't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What we have seen with the Jets is the exact opposite, though. Favre comes to Jets and has a mediocre season between good ones in GB and Minny. Pennington leaves Schottenheimer and has his best year since 2002. So while changing coordinators might not be a panacea for Sanchez, it really probably won't hurt. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cutler is terrible. The fans here generally make the same excuses that Sanchez apologists made earlier in the season for him. Offensive line, coordinator...etc. That is, those who don't say things like "derrr he ain't got no heart, he don't play through pain, we should start that Caleb Henry guy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Steve Young. He appeared lost when playing for Tampa. Bill Walsh/Mike Holmgren turned him into a superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Same old same old, some people <3 their QB's and don't learn that the coordinator isn't nearly as responsible for the QB's success then the QB himself, and the Oline, and the WR's and the RB's... And some people hate them same old same old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Kirk Ferentz taking over and helping a 32-year old Vinny Testaverde throw for 4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's, and make his first Pro Bowl in leading the Ravens to a 4-12 record? Vinny was even better playing for Charlie Weis in green and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Steve Young. He appeared lost when playing for Tampa. Bill Walsh/Mike Holmgren turned him into a superstar. Did Young play under Walsh or Seifert ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Vinny was even better playing for Charlie Weis in green and white. Yeah but Vinny did bad under Hacket because hacket tried to make him a WC QB which Vinny was not. Chad was a good WC QB and thats why he stepped in in 02 and played well. The West Coast system was designed for QB's exactly like Montana playing to his strengths not his weaknesses. Its also why Chad sucked in Shottys offense and then did well in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Did Young play under Walsh or Seifert ? They traded for him when Walsh was HC and he played mostly for Seifert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What Im saying is he has done better under Martz and was continuing to do well this year. If by better, you mean not throwing 26 interceptions, then sure, he's playing better. Well? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If by better, you mean not throwing 26 interceptions, then sure, he's playing better. Well? No. ...but they made the conference championship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow. It's almost as if that might have been my point. Was trying to spell it otu for the Klacko's of the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What we have seen with the Jets is the exact opposite, though. Favre comes to Jets and has a mediocre season between good ones in GB and Minny. Pennington leaves Schottenheimer and has his best year since 2002. So while changing coordinators might not be a panacea for Sanchez, it really probably won't hurt. Tha'ts absurd cause if you open up either of those windows to 5 years instead of three, you'll see favre and noodle arm having worse/similar seasons to what we've seen under schitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 lol @ Cutler being terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Was trying to spell it otu for the Klacko's of the board Considering we still apparently need more new threads to discuss the fact that both our OC and QB completely suck a$$ should tell us all by now that those who don't get it never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Steve Young. He appeared lost when playing for Tampa. Bill Walsh/Mike Holmgren turned him into a superstar. What part of same team is confusing? SF had infinitely better talent then TB + I don't think anyone would argue that Walsh was the last difference maker at OC. If there's some genuis out there you know about that's going to revolutionize the game, I'm all for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Tha'ts absurd cause if you open up either of those windows to 5 years instead of three, you'll see favre and noodle arm having worse/similar seasons to what we've seen under schitty It's pointless getting into this argument again, but I'll just clarify something for you once again. The point has never been the QBs magically play the worst football in all of their lives the second they get near Schotty. The point is that the QBs in his system seem to regularly play at or at least quite close to what has shown to be their professional worst. None of that makes the QB's blameless for their crappy performances, but it's enough of a trend to suggest this offense isn't exactly a QB's best friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If by better, you mean not throwing 26 interceptions, then sure, he's playing better. Well? No. hey less turnovers is something 13 td's 7 Ints is a better rate than 25/18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I remember lots of times people predicted this would happen, but never actually happening.. Heck HeimerDinger was going to get out of Chad's way and allow him to ascend to his rightful place at the top of the QB pile, cause it was Hackett that made him so conservative.. Carr in Texas was going to benefit from new OC, Alex Smith was going to benefit from Martz, Bradford from Josh McDaniels, etc.. Same old same old, some people <3 their QB's and don't learn that the coordinator isn't nearly as responsible for the QB's success then the QB himself, and the Oline, and the WR's and the RB's... What the hell were the Rams thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I honestly don't know the answer to this question, so I'm hoping someone can provide me some examples of successes, or, some clarity that there hasn't been any evidence of this: 1. Fire the Offensive Coordinator on a statistically poor offense 2. Keep the young, struggling QB 3. Offense and QB improves dramatically. My opinion on Sanchez is well documented. As are the opinions on Schotty of the majority of Jets fans. Neither are relevant to this thread. What I'd like to know is, has the above happened and how often? Yes, it worked with the Giants. Coughlin stripped Hufnagel of playcalling duties, made him quite before canning him, and made Gilbride the OC. This happened before the SB season. Eli didn't have a great year in 2007, but he played well the following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 hey less turnovers is something 13 td's 7 Ints is a better rate than 25/18 IMPROVEMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What part of same team is confusing? SF had infinitely better talent then TB + I don't think anyone would argue that Walsh was the last difference maker at OC. If there's some genuis out there you know about that's going to revolutionize the game, I'm all for it I missed the same team part, shoot me.. a$$. The problem with looking to hire the next genius who will revolutionize the game is you have no idea who its gonna be. Just a few years before Walsh became the Niners coach he was fired as a Cincy assistant because he kept pissing off Paul Brown with his insane new offensive ideas that would never work. I guess geniuses can't even spot other geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I remember lots of times people predicted this would happen, but never actually happening.. Heck HeimerDinger was going to get out of Chad's way and allow him to ascend to his rightful place at the top of the QB pile, cause it was Hackett that made him so conservative.. Carr in Texas was going to benefit from new OC, Alex Smith was going to benefit from Martz, Bradford from Josh McDaniels, etc.. Same old same old, some people <3 their QB's and don't learn that the coordinator isn't nearly as responsible for the QB's success then the QB himself, and the Oline, and the WR's and the RB's... Dude, Chad played 1 freakin' game under Dinger and blew out his shoulder. Kinda hard to point to that as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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