stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sanchez doesn't play Manning or Brady. He plays their defenses. In 2010, The Colts defense allowed 25 points per game. Their offense scored 27 points per game. The final score of that game was 17-16, Jets. So, the Jets scored 1 TD less than the average. The Jets defense held the Colts offense to 11 points below their average. Tell me again how Sanchez won that game? The game against the Pats at least is a little better. Their offense scored 32 per game, and our defense held them 11 points below their average again. Their defense allowed 20 points per game, we scored 8 above that average. Sanchez had a good game. And if I were the type of person, like the Sanchez fans, who hung their hat on one performance, I might think differently. Unfortunately, games like this, are the statistical anomalies. We were talking about Rex bro, not Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No. I'm not "just leaving those guys out". But, they were all on the team when Brees was considered a bust. So, what happened there? Good point with Sproles though. The 50 yards he gained on the ground that year, and the 10 yards receiving where really what took Brees to the next level. Face it, not a single thing you have to say is predicated on anything that has actually happened. It's all "what-ifs". So Brees was a bust with 27 TD's and 7 Ints ? Sproles was a bad choice for me to use since he did not play much i believe due to injury but there was certainly no lack of draft picks to build that team from what they started with earlier. Brees might never have become what he is today in Sean Paytons system but there was certrtainly no lack of young talent on either team especally the Saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ya know what's funny, Cameron is OC in Balt and Flacco is being crapped on, Brees OC was Cameron as well, yet Schott is taking blame for Brees lol That is a very interesting...and quite ironic tidbit. Never even though about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Once was enough. Yeah, you still need a legitimate NFL QB to win. Doesn't mean the team needs to be built around him. I'll contend you don't need an elite QB to win championships. That was all my point was. I'm surprised somebody hasn't just run down the list of NFL QB's who have won last 10 years. I get it. But I still think you can win with an old school ground and pound/defense first philosophy. What your point is, I have no idea? That Alex Smith is elite b/c he made some stellar throws? Again, the point was, Alex Smith is by no means elite....but he was good enough. I still believe Sanchez will be better than Alex Smith. My point is that Smith took them length of field via air not G&P, their Defense created 5 TO's game should not have been this close. NFL has changed, pass the ball and good things happen unless your name is mark sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 EY is fighting an argument against himself. I dont think anyone here thinks Sanchez is any good. The overall talent on offense however is slightly better than Clevelands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think Sproles was drafted the year Brees left. Michael Turner was a 5th round pick. Gates was undrafted. Where are you going with this? Are you mad the Jets don't have a Hall of Fame running back and a pro bowl receiver and that's why Sanchez sucks. Well yeah sure, that would be freaking awesome. Because they tried like hell to put talent around him. It just hasn't worked yet. Sometimes has to do with the QB. They half assed it Hess sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think Flynn is headed to Mia, prob reason an OC who didnt call plays gets a HC gig. With Sanchez on team and starting team has no chance. Luck Brings hope, I offer 3 #1's and revis. Revis will be gone in 2 years anyway. U can win without a shutdown CB, cant win with a stiff at QB. Team can build around Luck with FA's his contract will be what $25M instead of $55m the turd is getting I can't pull the trigger on that. The deficiencies on this team not named Mark Sanchez are largely a result of us trading away picks for years, going for it all and coming up short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think Flynn is headed to Mia, prob reason an OC who didnt call plays gets a HC gig. With Sanchez on team and starting team has no chance. Luck Brings hope, I offer 3 #1's and revis. Revis will be gone in 2 years anyway. U can win without a shutdown CB, cant win with a stiff at QB. Team can build around Luck with FA's his contract will be what $25M instead of $55m the turd is getting Agree on Flynn. The whole Luck thing it's not even worth talking about as never in a bizillion years is it gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We were talking about Rex bro, not Sanchez. Lol. My bad. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My point is that Smith took them length of field via air not G&P, their Defense created 5 TO's game should not have been this close. NFL has changed, pass the ball and good things happen unless your name is mark sanchez The defense doesnt get credit for creating turnovers? It would be hysterical if the Niners and Ravens both win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 To be honest with you, none of that really matters to me. Coaches are scapegoats. A better OC could hide Sanchez's deficiencies more easily. But, good DC's will find a way to design defenses to attack them still. Blaming the coach is for people who don't want to admit the guy who's jersey they're wearing actually sucks. yes coaches are scapegoats None of us see the coaches tape, None of us know how many audibles sanchez effed up, or how it affected OL fact is every OC in NFL knows 100x more than any of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The defense doesnt get credit for creating turnovers? It would be hysterical if the Niners and Ravens both win... 49ers have a great Def By G&P i am referring to SF offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So Brees was a bust with 27 TD's and 7 Ints ? Sproles was a bad choice for me to use since he did not play much i believe due to injury but there was certainly no lack of draft picks to build that team from what they started with earlier. Brees might never have become what he is today in Sean Paytons system but there was certrtainly no lack of young talent on either team especally the Saints I didn't think Brees was a bust, but that was popular opinion. It's been used here to villify shotty. Point being, you can make all the excuses you want, but there's literally been nothing from our QB to suggest that we'll ever have a good offense with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Lol. My bad. Oops. No problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I can't pull the trigger on that. The deficiencies on this team not named Mark Sanchez are largely a result of us trading away picks for years, going for it all and coming up short. I believe Luck will be as good as Manning, We would be able to sign FA's to fill in gap of Losing #1 picks, lets face it Wilson aint special and Mo W is ok nothing to rave about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 fact is every OC in NFL knows 100x more than any of us do. Good luck making that point. I've been trying all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My point is that Smith took them length of field via air not G&P, their Defense created 5 TO's game should not have been this close. NFL has changed, pass the ball and good things happen unless your name is mark sanchez Yeah the high score and points for SF were mostly off turnovers. Defense. The Giants beat the Falcons pounding the ball down their throats. I get it. It's the NFL you need to be able to do both. But you can have a run first pass second scheme and win. That doesn't mean you never win a game through the air. 2 out of the 4 teams left want to run first to set up the pass. If I had the time I would debate same for the Giants making it 3 out 4. Eli has been remarkable but the Giants have won running the ball and big plays down the field. Someone brought up Bradshaw and Steelers. That's what the Giants have looked like to me. Very balanced but pound the ball first. The only team left with a pass first mentality and then shake and bake with draws has an ALL TIME great QB in New England. Further more the two best teams (IMO) in the reg season, both pass first...lost last week. Which was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I believe Luck will be as good as Manning, We would be able to sign FA's to fill in gap of Losing #1 picks, lets face it Wilson aint special and Mo W is ok nothing to rave about. Agreed. But, what if he's not? If Luck turns out to be even just "pretty good", we made a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah the high score and points for SF were mostly off turnovers. Defense. The Giants beat the Falcons pounding the ball down their throats. I get it. It's the NFL you need to be able to do both. But you can have a run first pass second scheme and win. That doesn't mean you never win a game through the air. 2 out of the 4 teams left want to run first to set up the pass. If I had the time I would debate same for the Giants making it 3 out 4. Eli has been remarkable but the Giants have won running the ball and big plays down the field. Someone brought up Bradshaw and Steelers. That's what the Giants have looked like to me. Very balanced but pound the ball first. The only team left with a pass first mentality and then shake and bake with draws has an ALL TIME great QB in New England. Bullcrap, ELI beat Atlanta and GB, Gint running game scares no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Agreed. But, what if he's not? If Luck turns out to be even just "pretty good", we made a huge mistake. I watch alot of college ball, enjoy it more than NFL thanks to jets. He is the best i have seen since Elway. He calls his own plays and is 100x> than MS. jets can win a SB with him, cannot with model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bullcrap, ELI beat Atlanta and GB, Gint running game scares no one. They physically dominated Atlanta. But Eli is also an elite QB with some elite WR's. It's not worth debating. I'll just say you win for the sake of it. But Coughlin wants to physically attack the opposing defense which they try to do with Bradshaw and Jacobs. It's part of why they can take shots down field. It's run/vertical passing offense. They've been very successful doing that basically after the Jet game. You're taking things to verbatim. Doesn't mean Eli can't light it up. Hence why Giants are probably the most balanced team left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good luck making that point. I've been trying all season. If someone on this board thinks they are better than Schott, they should march their arse down to floram and submit resume. Fans see only a small piece of pie. everyone i have spoken with at NFL Sirius radio, has very high opinions of him. I was hoping he would be bama's OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 They physically dominated Atlanta. But Eli is also an elite QB with some elite WR's. It's not worth debating. I'll just say you win for the sake of it. But Coughlin wants to physically attack the opposing defense which they try to do with Bradshaw and Jacobs. It's part of why they can take shots down field. It's run/vertical passing offense. They've been very successful doing that basically after the Jet game. You're taking things to verbatim. Doesn't mean Eli can't light it up. Hence why Giants are probably the most balanced team left. Exactly G&P without an elite QB is worthless imo. If SF beats Pats or Ravens or Gints, he will have to play well. G&P with Sanchez is prolonging the agony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If someone on this board thinks they are better than Schott, they should march their arse down to floram and submit resume. Fans see only a small piece of pie. everyone i have spoken with at NFL Sirius radio, has very high opinions of him. I was hoping he would be bama's OC. No way Shotty could be as clueless as he SEEMS to be. It looks like any ol'fan could draw up plays better than him but obviously it's not that easy. Nevertheless I do believe Sparano will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Exactly G&P without an elite QB is worthless imo. If SF beats Pats or Ravens or Gints, he will have to play well. G&P with Sanchez is prolonging the agony Now you just sound like a pissed off Jets fan. I get it. If Sanchez really does suck and this year was basically his ceiling the team is ****ed regardless of whatever they want to call themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now you just sound like a pissed off Jets fan. I get it. If Sanchez really does suck and this year was basically his ceiling the team is ****ed regardless of whatever they want to call themselves. Hence my prediction of 4 years of hell comin. New regime in 2013, with a new QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well if he is well respected how come no one wanted to hire him as a coach? Multiple times and jobs have been available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Brees goes through his progressions ridiculously fast like he's got 3 pairs of eyeballs, is amazing at moving around in a collapsing pocket, and is deadly accurate so he needs only the smallest window to fit it into. He also leads his receivers phenomenally well so he doesn't need a lot of air to get a lot of yards on a pass. He also seems a good deal smarter than Sanchez, who can't do any of those things except by accident where the law of averages dictates he'll periodically make some absolutely perfect passes. Yep, His first three years were excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well if he is well respected how come no one wanted to hire him as a coach? Multiple times and jobs have been available How do you know that he didnt turn down Bama? Mike Smith knows Dirk from days in Jax, Mia/Indy/Pitt have not named OC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 How do you know that he didnt turn down Bama? Mike Smith knows Dirk from days in Jax, Mia/Indy/Pitt have not named OC's There is absolutely nothing you can point to to prove that Schottenheimer is even a decent OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There is absolutely nothing you can point to to prove that Schottenheimer is even a decent OC. I can say same thing, there is nothing u can prove that he isnt? As Damien Woody always sez u cant make lemonade out of cumquats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't think Brees was a bust, but that was popular opinion. It's been used here to villify shotty. Point being, you can make all the excuses you want, but there's literally been nothing from our QB to suggest that we'll ever have a good offense with him. i agree with you in that respect EY I know full well Sanchez has not played well and needs to improve but I do think he has the talent to be much much better. I have had major issues with the jets coaching staff and talent for many years now and I stated when we drafted Sanchez this was an issue Im not sure I will ever be proven right or wrong but thats my stance. Suck is a bad word to use for one guy when this team obviously had a lot of issues last year and a lot of issues on offense does not always point at one guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There is absolutely nothing you can point to to prove that Schottenheimer is even a decent OC. also wasnt sean payton kicked out of Gintville? and now he is Offensive genius in NO, Mccarthy suked in SF and now he is O guru in GB Funny how QB's make OC's look good or bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Exactly G&P without an elite QB is worthless imo. If SF beats Pats or Ravens or Gints, he will have to play well. G&P with Sanchez is prolonging the agony Yes. Literally the only way it works is if the QB is still capable of competence and making plays, neither of which Sanchez showed enough of in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 also wasnt sean payton kicked out of Gintville? and now he is Offensive genius in NO, Mccarthy suked in SF and now he is O guru in GB Funny how QB's make OC's look good or bad It blows my f'n mind how little that is understood here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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