denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dont think the reputation is elite but thats not the point. The leverage the Jets have with Brick is that he signed a deal with mnimal backend protection. If he has another bad year hed be toast in 2013. Its actually in his best interests to rework his deal now and rearrange the money to guarantee a roster spot in 2014 and 2015. THANK YOU! If Ferguson play’s out his 2012 and 2013 contract he will be vulnerable to some pressure from the Jets in 2014. The team will have some leverage over his contract then. Ferguson might want the 2014 guarantee to protect himself now from 2014 in case the Jets try and squeeze him. You never know what will happen with a player injuries and the like so sometimes the player will grab the future guarantee even if it means giving up something now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My Mistake on Alexnder I thought the FA signings I talk about in the article would push the number down but forgot to up the next in line. It's small potatoes, my bad. I just don't know how the team is going to fill all these holes. It's not a big deal at all and doesn't materially change your article. Alexander is only 1 player. The Jets don't need to clear $30M for this year, but you've illustrated a way they could if needed. They're not going to, but if they added three players to $10M/year contracts, that doesn't mean the three cost $30M in 2012. The problem is the Jets backloaded so many contracts that putting off still more cap hits to next year means they may have to start cutting needed players. If the cap limit climbs $30M of course none of that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The problem is the Jets backloaded so many contracts that putting off still more cap hits to next year means they may have to start cutting needed players. If the cap limit climbs $30M of course none of that matters. I think thats the bigger issue. I believe 2013 is when the new football money starts coming in and I think many teams are beginning to plan as if that is going to be the year that they will have lots of cap room to manuever and essentially put them back on the pre-lockout path they planned for. All these teams supposedly carrying cap room over I think are doing so with 2013 in mind. With spending minimums I would anticipate many more frontloaded deals from teams like the Bills and its helps them to have the extra cap space to do that strategy. I dont think any of those teams have any intention of using those windfalls of cap dollars in 2012 since their concern in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 all this to throw it away on an old broken guy who can't throw ? why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really good article Dennis. Really good thread guys. Awesome to see this level of football talk...wow, you guys are impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Shut up, Max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really good article Dennis. Really good thread guys. Awesome to see this level of football talk...wow, you guys are impressive! +1 I don't know how these guys know this much about the cap, but it's damn impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Jason at Nyjetscap does an unbelievable job with his web site, so does Phil here. I've been going to Jason's site for years and am always amazed at how dead on accurate he is. It's like he has a desk next to Mike Tannenbaum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 +1 I don't know how these guys know this much about the cap, but it's damn impressive. It is scary actually. But JetNation is about to have its 7th birthday so I am happy to have such awesome football talk here. The beat reporters have to read this stuff and get pissed. Manish Mehta isn't teaching anyone here football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is scary actually. But JetNation is about to have its 7th birthday so I am happy to have such awesome football talk here. The beat reporters have to read this stuff and get pissed. Manish Mehta isn't teaching anyone here football! He'll have to go find some annonomus sources bad mouthing Jetnation and run with it. That seems to be his MO. Juts so you know I'm going to talk with Matt this weekend so should have his insight on guys to watch at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is scary actually. But JetNation is about to have its 7th birthday so I am happy to have such awesome football talk here. The beat reporters have to read this stuff and get pissed. Manish Mehta isn't teaching anyone here football! Stop attacking Manish. You're only empowering JonEJinx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm certainly far from an expert at the cap, but there seems to be a lot of leveraging of the future years with guarantees that I'm not sure we want to make room for a year in which it's very likely we don't win the Super Bowl. We've tried this whole mortgage the future to load up for this season only to see it backfire. Maybe we just need to let some of these contracts expire, rather than dragging them out longer with future guarantees. Of course some work needs to be done, but it's time to focus on the draft and young talent. Neither the Pats, nor the Giants were off season champs this past year, nor were the Steelers or the Packers the year before that. Or, get Manning, cut Sanchez, and try to win it all next year. But, blowing up the future for the present makes no sense without a bonafide win-now QB, and we don't even know if Manning is that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm certainly far from an expert at the cap, but there seems to be a lot of leveraging of the future years with guarantees that I'm not sure we want to make room for a year in which it's very likely we don't win the Super Bowl. We've tried this whole mortgage the future to load up for this season only to see it backfire. Maybe we just need to let some of these contracts expire, rather than dragging them out longer with future guarantees. Of course some work needs to be done, but it's time to focus on the draft and young talent. Neither the Pats, nor the Giants were off season champs this past year, nor were the Steelers or the Packers the year before that. Or, get Manning, cut Sanchez, and try to win it all next year. But, blowing up the future for the present makes no sense without a bonafide win-now QB, and we don't even know if Manning is that anymore. Totally agreed. The problem with Tannenbaum's aggressiveness/chicanery is that you're locked into a perpetual purgatorial state where the free agents ensure you won't outright suck, but the buying-on-credit limits your ability to wait for and eventually pay your developing talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Totally agreed. The problem with Tannenbaum's aggressiveness/chicanery is that you're locked into a perpetual purgatorial state where the free agents ensure you won't outright suck, but the buying-on-credit limits your ability to wait for and eventually pay your developing talent. I certainly agree. The article is a look at how to create the space but doesn't mean it is a smart maneuver. I read every day about getting certain free agents for the Jets this year, well their going to want to get paid and how about all the other moves the team needs to make. I personally hope the team brings in some lunch pail guys and a great draft class who are cheaper and contributes right away. Then in 2013 the cap will ease and the team will have more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 +1 I don't know how these guys know this much about the cap, but it's damn impressive. It is pretty badass. I have no idea how they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Me ******* head hurts from reading all this, I feel like I just study for an accountant's test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You cannot save anything by renegotiating with Scott. His 2012 salary is guaranteed and he's not giving up any of it. If you cut Scott and his picked up by another team, the amount he gets paid by said team will come off the 2012 Jets cap. This is a highly unlikely scenario since Scott won't get much elsewhere. The only other way to get 2012 cap relief from Scott is how it is done in the article. I'm not sure where exactly I said otherwise. At this point in his career no other team is going to pay Scott anything substantial, so the Jets are foolish if they think cutting him will get them anywhere on the cap this year. That said, if they're desperate for money, he's probably one of the people who they'll look at moving some things around with. I also don't think there's any way they'll be looking to free up that much money and I think outside of bringing back Pouha, you're not going to see the Jets have an overly active FA period, with the exception of some moderate-priced mid-level FAs. So just between working with the contracts of guys like Sanchez and Scott and putting a boot to Smith's a$$ should probably do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm certainly far from an expert at the cap, but there seems to be a lot of leveraging of the future years with guarantees that I'm not sure we want to make room for a year in which it's very likely we don't win the Super Bowl. We've tried this whole mortgage the future to load up for this season only to see it backfire. Maybe we just need to let some of these contracts expire, rather than dragging them out longer with future guarantees. Of course some work needs to be done, but it's time to focus on the draft and young talent. Neither the Pats, nor the Giants were off season champs this past year, nor were the Steelers or the Packers the year before that. Or, get Manning, cut Sanchez, and try to win it all next year. But, blowing up the future for the present makes no sense without a bonafide win-now QB, and we don't even know if Manning is that anymore. Giants weren't merely "not off-season champs." The Giants were off-season chumps, where the whole country openly mocked them and Giants fans were depressed. Lost a bunch of players through FA and trade. Lost 3 CBs to injury (including their first round pick). Then lost their second round pick to injury. Then lost their MLB to injury. Lost their TE to FA. Lost a starting, but banged-up WR (pro-bowler in his last full season) by trading him to a division rival - in August after all the FAs were done being scooped up- for a 4th round pick in '12. It was a joke...or so it certainly seemed at the time. Then again, any one of many ridiculous breaks ends their season at the same 8-8 record we had instead of a SB win. A couple of breaks don't go their way after the season started, as they don't for many teams (or like their Seattle game), and they'd have had an outright losing record. Hey, they had an inch of daylight, barely squeaked into the playoffs, and took it all the way. We got close to the same thing in the past but came up short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Giants weren't merely "not off-season champs." The Giants were off-season chumps, where the whole country openly mocked them and Giants fans were depressed. Lost a bunch of players through FA and trade. Lost 3 CBs to injury (including their first round pick). Then lost their second round pick to injury. Then lost their MLB to injury. Lost their TE to FA. Lost a starting, but banged-up WR (pro-bowler in his last full season) by trading him to a division rival - in August after all the FAs were done being scooped up- for a 4th round pick in '12. It was a joke...or so it certainly seemed at the time. Then again, any one of many ridiculous breaks ends their season at the same 8-8 record we had instead of a SB win. A couple of breaks don't go their way after the season started, as they don't for many teams (or like their Seattle game), and they'd have had an outright losing record. Hey, they had an inch of daylight, barely squeaked into the playoffs, and took it all the way. We got close to the same thing in the past but came up short. So you're saying it's the Jets turn next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Giants weren't merely "not off-season champs." The Giants were off-season chumps, where the whole country openly mocked them and Giants fans were depressed. Lost a bunch of players through FA and trade. Lost 3 CBs to injury (including their first round pick). Then lost their second round pick to injury. Then lost their MLB to injury. Lost their TE to FA. Lost a starting, but banged-up WR (pro-bowler in his last full season) by trading him to a division rival - in August after all the FAs were done being scooped up- for a 4th round pick in '12. It was a joke...or so it certainly seemed at the time. Then again, any one of many ridiculous breaks ends their season at the same 8-8 record we had instead of a SB win. A couple of breaks don't go their way after the season started, as they don't for many teams (or like their Seattle game), and they'd have had an outright losing record. Hey, they had an inch of daylight, barely squeaked into the playoffs, and took it all the way. We got close to the same thing in the past but came up short. I can't agree with your assessment of the Giants more. Even in the 1990 NFC Championship game if Roger Craig doesn't fumble with about 2:50 left the Giants don't win the Super Bowl. How about Scott Norwood missing the field goal in that Super Bowl, if it were against the Jets had hit a 59 yarder. If Patrick Crayton doesn't drop a pass that hits him in the hands the Giants lose in Dallas in 2007 or if Dallas doesn't get a stupid, late hit out of bounds penalty, the Giants don't get a TD before the half. If Brett Farve doesn't decide he's cold and wants to go home, then ruin the Jets the next year to get to Minnesota, and throws an interception maybe the Giants don't win that game. We don't even need to talk about how every lost ball in the Super Bowl went into a Giants hands even with 10 Patriots around it. The Giants always get the breaks when they need them. Like you said the Giants are dead this year if Romo hits a wide open Miles Austin but of course another break for them. I'm still waiting for that magic season when the Jets karma switches and they get all the breaks, the other team fumbles, drops the pass or trips over the 20 yard line when they have a chance to ice the game. When do the stars align for this team maybe soon, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just to let you know Steve Smith was a Giant FA in 2011 went to the Eagles no trade:. Quote from yahoo sports: "Now, even more potentially bad news. Former Giants receiver Steve Smith, a free agent this year, has become the latest player to sign with the Eagles — the one-year deal was first reported by Comcast Sportsnet Philly's Reuben Frank on Wednesday afternoon." I can't agree with your assessment of the Giants more. Even in the 1990 NFC Championship game if Roger Craig doesn't fumble with about 2:50 left the Giants don't win the Super Bowl. How about Scott Norwood missing the field goal in that Super Bowl, if it were against the Jets had hit a 59 yarder. If Patrick Crayton doesn't drop a pass that hits him in the hands the Giants lose in Dallas in 2007 or if Dallas doesn't get a stupid, late hit out of bounds penalty, the Giants don't get a TD before the half. If Brett Farve doesn't decide he's cold and wants to go home, then ruin the Jets the next year to get to Minnesota, and throws an interception maybe the Giants don't win that game. We don't even need to talk about how every lost ball in the Super Bowl went into a Giants hands even with 10 Patriots around it. The Giants always get the breaks when they need them. Like you said the Giants are dead this year if Romo hits a wide open Miles Austin but of course another break for them. I'm still waiting for that magic season when the Jets karma switches and they get all the breaks, the other team fumbles, drops the pass or trips over the 20 yard line when they have a chance to ice the game. When do the stars align for this team maybe soon, I hope. Know what it was that messed with my memory? He was a RFA under the old expired CBA which extended the RFA years to 5 and then 6 years from 4. When that CBA expired he was a UFA (like Harris, who we franchise tagged). I don't know why I thought I remembered the Giants getting a 4th rounder back. As to the rest, the Giants caught a ton of bad breaks, particularly with injuries. So to be fair you can't isolate the good breaks they got and ignore all the bad ones. I would say the Cowboys game we caught some breaks. I forget which, but this past season there was some late game (or two) when we got a bunch of iffy calls go our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So you're saying it's the Jets turn next? That is what I'm saying. Sanchez is going to turn on his invisible juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Know what it was that messed with my memory? He was a RFA under the old expired CBA which extended the RFA years to 5 and then 6 years from 4. When that CBA expired he was a UFA (like Harris, who we franchise tagged). I don't know why I thought I remembered the Giants getting a 4th rounder back. As to the rest, the Giants caught a ton of bad breaks, particularly with injuries. So to be fair you can't isolate the good breaks they got and ignore all the bad ones. I would say the Cowboys game we caught some breaks. I forget which, but this past season there was some late game (or two) when we got a bunch of iffy calls go our way. I removed the quote Smith was tendered not sure of the pick, sorry. The old CBA screwed me up 4 years still restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I removed the quote Smith was tendered not sure of the pick, sorry. The old CBA screwed me up 4 years still restricted. Now I can't remember for sure. If you find it post it here. Thought I remembered the GMen getting a 4th but it was so many months ago and it wasn't the Jets so now my memory with Smith in August is pretty hazy. He had 4 years so he should have been a UFA just like Harris. We franchise-tagged Harris. Did the Giants franchise tag Smith? I doubt it but don't remember. If they didn't they have no recourse through which to recoup a pick from anyone so I'm probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That is what I'm saying. Sanchez is going to turn on his invisible juice. Cholula Hot Sauce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Now I can't remember for sure. If you find it post it here. Thought I remembered the GMen getting a 4th but it was so many months ago and it wasn't the Jets so now my memory with Smith in August is pretty hazy. He had 4 years so he should have been a UFA just like Harris. We franchise-tagged Harris. Did the Giants franchise tag Smith? I doubt it but don't remember. If they didn't they have no recourse through which to recoup a pick from anyone so I'm probably wrong. I haven't seen anything about the Eagles giving up a draft pick but the Giants did tender Smith so I guess we'll just have to wait and see but your point on the Giants is so valid. The last two years an injury riddled team has managed to win the Super Bowl. It takes a team effort to win the big one, not a bunch of overpaid pre-Madonna, ask the Eagles how that works. The Giant fans were calling for Jerry Reese 's head cause of all the FA losses. I know the Jets fans kill Tannembaum for letting certain players go but you can’t keep everyone. It worked out for Reese maybe Tanny makes the tough moves but it works out for the Jets this year and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I haven't seen anything about the Eagles giving up a draft pick but the Giants did tender Smith so I guess we'll just have to wait and see but your point on the Giants is so valid. The last two years an injury riddled team has managed to win the Super Bowl. It takes a team effort to win the big one, not a bunch of overpaid pre-Madonna, ask the Eagles how that works. The Giant fans were calling for Jerry Reese 's head cause of all the FA losses. I know the Jets fans kill Tannembaum for letting certain players go but you can’t keep everyone. It worked out for Reese maybe Tanny makes the tough moves but it works out for the Jets this year and beyond. I love me some Jerry Reese, but Jerry Reese was bailed out this year by the ascension of Eli and JPP. QBs and pass rushers, man. Everything else is gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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