eli vs vikings...week 4...2007 (superbowl year)

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

http://www.nfl.com/v...ants-highlights

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) -- The Minnesota Vikings know how to make Eli Manning look bad, and this time they did it in front of big brother, Peyton.

With Peyton watching in the stands, Darren Sharper, Dwight Smith and Chad Greenway picked off passes by Eli and returned them for touchdowns in leading the Vikings to a 41-17 victory over the New York Giants on Sunday.

"It's not necessarily that we have a good read on Eli," Sharper said. "I just think we have played well against him the last couple of times."

Well isn't the word. Great is. The Vikings (5-6) have picked off Manning eight times in the two games, scoring on four of those picks and coming close on another.

Sharper scored on a 20-yard return, Smith rumbled 93 yards and Greenway followed from 37 yards just a few plays later as the Vikings set a team single-game record for interception returns for touchdowns.

"When you throw four interceptions, it's never a good day," said Manning, who finished 21-of-49 for 273 yards. "They took advantage of it and scored on three of them. Every one has its own story."

Sharper's interception came after Manning and tight end Jeremy Shockey had a miscommunication on a blitz read. It seemed Sharper was the only one who knew where the pass was going. Smith's score came on a tipped pass and Greenway's TD came with Manning under pressure.

"I'm just disappointed," Manning said after the Giants (7-4) lost for the second time in three weeks.

Asked if it was tougher playing like that in front of his brother, Manning grimaced. "It doesn't make any difference," he said.

The NFL record for interceptions returned for touchdowns is four, set by Seattle against Kansas City on Nov. 4, 1984.

The Vikings nearly had a fourth return in winning consecutive games for the first time this season. Smith returned a second-quarter interception 19 yards to the Giants 8, setting up a touchdown run by Chester Taylor. Another pick late in the third quarter was overturned by a Giants' challenge.

"Whenever a quarterback makes a throw and gives up a touchdown by interception, it does make you a little gun-shy," Sharper said.

The Giants were off-balance from the start. Tarvaris Jackson threw a 60-yard touchdown pass toSidney Rice just 41 seconds after the opening kickoff. Ryan Longwell added two field goals.

The win helped the Vikings get back into the wild-card playoff chase and prevented the Giants from taking a two-game lead for the top wild-card berth.

"We're a footnote at 4-6," Vikings coach Brad Childress said. "It's significant because now you have a chance to be in the mix."

Manning threw a meaningless 6-yard touchdown pass to Plaxico Burress in the fourth quarter.Reuben Droughns scored on a 1-yard run for New York and Lawrence Tynes kicked a 48-yard field goal.

The loss dropped the Giants three games behind Dallas in the NFC East with five games to play. The Cowboys have the tiebreaker, having won both meetings this season.

"We're 7-4," Giants defensive end Michael Strahan said. "We still control our situation and that's encouraging."

The Vikings also had a record-setting effort in their last game at Giants Stadium, setting an NFL mark by returning an interception, kickoff and punt for touchdowns in the same game.

"I did not, in my worst moment, ever think I would be standing here talking about history repeating itself, but it did," Giants coach Tom Coughlin said.

The interception return was the Vikings' weapon of choice this year.

Sharper, who intercepted three passes and scored on a 92-yard return in the 2005 game, gave the Vikings a 14-7 lead late in the first quarter. Sharper fell to the ground making the catch, got up and ran untouched into the end zone.

"I got up and I was a little discombobulated," Sharper said. "I didn't know where to run. I'm glad I didn't go the wrong way like Jim Marshall did."

Smith, the Vikings' other safety, helped push the lead to 21-7 with the interception that set up the score by Taylor, who carried 31 times for 77 yards filling in for Adrian Peterson. Manning apparently didn't see Smith while throwing to Burress.

Trailing 24-7 at the half, the Giants got some momentum at the start of the third quarter with Tynes' long field goal.

However, Jackson, who was 10-of-12 for 129 yards, converted two third-down plays on a 14-play, nine-minute drive that resulted in a 26-yard field goal by Longwell.

Smith and Greenway then put the game out of reach with their touchdowns. Smith picked off a pass that was tipped by linebacker Ben Leber and went from one end of the stadium to the other on his 93-yard jaunt down the right sideline.

Manning completed a pass to start the next series before Greenway stepped in front of another pass to Shockey and scored 42 seconds later.

Still on the ground, Manning simply looked up in the air in disbelief.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

and some comments from the Giants message board after the game...........

apprehensive about the defensive situation with Kiwi being out; we were unsure about how well we would fare with the RB situation.....and WOW, did you see what happened?

For those who blindly have supported Eli, it's your turn to step up.

Throwing to "phantom" receivers, throwing to the ground, throwing to the other team - all things Eli did today. Let it be noted that several good passes were dropped, too.

My son asked, "Why does he just stand in the pocket and not move at all, Dad?"

How could I respond? Wow, it was like a sack of bricks standing behind the O-line. Two step, three step, and 5 step drops, straight back without any lateral movement whatsoever. Easy target standing back there. I know he's not a runner and I surely don't want him to become one, but he has to move SOME just to keep the defense honest and to step into passing lanes.

It's getting harder and harder for me to defend Eli as this was one ridiculous outing. Pretty tough blaming this one on the defense. I know that everyone has bad days, but I don't think I can ever recall saying this about a starting QB so many times....."Who the heck was that pass going to?"

It seems as if the "next step" or the "next level" as many call it, gets farther and farther away.

[faba]

Eli has talent though

[THE ILK]

13-3!

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

more comments from message board

just classic. lose a midseason game at home against an inferior opponent and in embarrassing fashion. what a surprise.

im officially waving the white flag on eli. the team just cant afford for him to perform like this. i dont know of any good QBs that have looked that inept. it looked like it was his first pro start. im not saying that they should cut him or anything drastic like that, but in the offseason they need to start exploring other options via draft or trade. at least get somebody in here that can compete with him for the starting job to push him a bit so he knows there will be consequences for poor play.

this is why i said coughlin didn't deserve an extension after that 6-2 start. if this team implodes and finishes 8-8 or loses in the first round, then this season is a waste. i dont care about surpassing preseason expectations. i expect this team to make the playoffs every season, just getting there doesn't mean anything to me.

also, i agree with the above opinions on plax. it is apparent that he is clearly bothered by that ankle. it looks like 8-8 virtually assures the giants of a playoff spot. hopefully they can get to that point and then sit plax so he can heal up.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

I'm usually a pretty strong defender of Eli

(Well, who isn't these days? haha)

But Eli is starting to get that same look on his face that Richard Nixon had, circa 1973.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

I just don't know what to say. We've all been giving the 'he's good but not great' line. I still WANT to believe that, but my eyes are telling me something else. He has played really poorly in 3 of the last 4 games and only adequately in the other one. This is not a guy who looks like he is getting better.

[shawn306]

They didn't have Tebow waiting in the wings though.

[JFtoLong]

As TO once said, getcha popcorn ready!

This is going to be good.

I sense a good thread coming.

Eli also had far better weapons in year 4, far better. Plax in his prime was a stud receiver, he had Toomer who was a very good receiver, an incredible o-line both running and passing.

He had a head coach who actually understood, and cared about offense.

I remember these days all so well.

I have so many Giants fans friends and family members who were SCREAMING, and I mean SCREAMING about how bad Eli sucked much of this year.

It is eerily similar to the way our genius Jets fans scream about Sanchez.

Does this mean Sanchez will turn into Eli?

NOPE!

We have nothing even remotely close around Sanchez as Eli had to his surrounding cast in that year.

We have a dope of an OC, a HC who either could care less about offense, or does not understand it, or both.

Aint' happening!

Bring on the next failure of a QB, lets trade up in the draft and give'm to Rexy and Sparano, woohooo!

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Eli also had far better weapons in year 4, far better. Plax in his prime was a stud receiver, he had Toomer who was a very good receiver, an incredible o-line both running and passing.

He had a head coach who actually understood, and cared about offense.

i agree, so why is this being put on Sanchez?????

[Bugg]

Matt Leinart-benched for Kurt Warner, game 4, season 4-

http://www.pro-footb...00910110crd.htm

Ryan Leaf-out of football, year 4.

David Carr-not bad, but on his way to a 7-9 season and out of Houston-

http://www.pro-footb...00410030htx.htm

David Klingler-ass firmly on bench-

http://www.pro-footb...inDa00.htm'

Need I go on to find more abysmal and closer camparisons?

This Eli comparison is CRAP.

It means nothing.

I will give any of you 100 to 1 odds-my end that Mark Sanchez does not start a Super Bowl win in February 2013 in new Orleans, your end he does in fact start and win said Super Bowl game. This is in essence what this Eli comparison really is-Eli did it in his 4th year, therefore Mark Snachez will do so as well. And you willingly and intentionally IGNORE every other and more valid comparison of suckitude that there is in NFL history. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. YOU'RE WRONG, but if you think you're onto something, put your money where your mouth is. OR STFU WITH THIS BULLsh*t ARGUMENT ALREADY.

[JiFtheOracle]

So does this mean the Jets have an elite Qb and are headed to the SB?

Oh goodie!!!

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Sanchez has NO team around him....none at all....

if we have the #1 pick next year, how does drafting a qb help us exactly?? i would much rather trade down, replenish our line and skill positions, and roll with sanchez moving forward...

seriously, who is the best player on the jets?? the center or the tackle?? that says it all about Mr T and how terrible he has been at replacing T jones, Cotchery, LT, Plaxico, ect??

Ground and pound with S Greene?? but we blame sanchez......

[THE ILK]

Sanchez has NO team around him....none at all....

if we have the #1 pick next year, how does drafting a qb help us exactly?? i would much rather trade down, replenish our line and skill positions, and roll with sanchez moving forward...

seriously, who is the best player on the jets?? the center or the tackle?? that says it all about Mr T and how terrible he has been at replacing T jones, Cotchery, LT, Plaxico, ect??

Ground and pound with S Greene?? but we blame sanchez......

4 more years of fail, just to be sure.

[Bleedin Green]

So does this mean the Jets have an elite Qb and are headed to the SB?

Oh goodie!!!

Don't be silly, the comparison was to Eli Manning, not to an elite QB.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Matt Leinart-benched for Kurt Warner, game 4, season 4-

http://www.pro-footb...00910110crd.htm

Ryan Leaf-out of football, year 4.

David Carr-not bad, but on his way to a 7-9 season and out of Houston-

http://www.pro-footb...00410030htx.htm

David Klingler-ass firmly on bench-

http://www.pro-footb...inDa00.htm'

Need I go on to find more abysmal and closer camparisons?

This Eli comparison is CRAP.

It means nothing.

I will give any of you 100 to 1 odds-my end that Mark Sanchez does not start a Super Bowl win in February 2013 in new Orleans, your end he does in fact start and win said Super Bowl game. This is in essence what this Eli comparison really is-Eli did it in his 4th year, therefore Mark Snachez will do so as well. And you willingly and intentionally IGNORE every other and more valid comparison of suckitude that there is in NFL history. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. YOU'RE WRONG, but if you think you're onto something, put your money where your mouth is. OR STFU WITH THIS BULLsh*t ARGUMENT ALREADY.

Bugg, the point wasnt that Sanchez is gonna win the super bowl this year.....its that we as fans really have no clue....NONE....about how to evaluate talent at the NFL level...we are waaaaay too knee jerk to objectively make these kinds of decisions.

Sanchez isnt Manning.....not yet at least

Sanchez isnt Ryan Leaf.....not yet at least

if they start tebow, sanchez never plays another down for the Jets ever again.....id rather see sanchez play out the rest of the year and allow him to chuck it 45 times a game.......if he plays well than we have our answer at qb and can address the MULTITUDE of problems on this team......if he plays poorly then we will have lost a ton of games and be in position to draft someone else to play qb or trade down and stockpile picks.....the point is we dont know who sanchez is yet......i do know that if he is cut by the Jets he WILL get another starting job in this league...thats a fact

[JiFtheOracle]

its that we as fans really have no clue....NONE....about how to evaluate talent at the NFL level...we are waaaaay too knee jerk to objectively make these kinds of decisions.

Knee Jerk? The fans have had 4 years of evaluating the worst starting QB in the league.

Sanchez isnt Manning.....not yet at least

Never will be. No matter how hard you pray.

Sanchez isnt Ryan Leaf.....not yet at least

Not that bad, but at least San Diego knew to cut their ties quickly

if they start tebow, sanchez never plays another down for the Jets ever again

Winning!

.....id rather see sanchez play out the rest of the year and allow him to chuck it 45 times a game

I know Jets fans like torture, but this is cruel and inhumane.

.......if he plays well than we have our answer at qb

Not a chance.

and can address the MULTITUDE of problems on this team....

Mainly QB.

..if he plays poorly then we will have lost a ton of games and be in position to draft someone else to play qb or trade down and stockpile picks

Me likey.

.....the point is we dont know who sanchez is yet

Yeah huh, he's the worst QB in the league.

......i do know that if he is cut by the Jets he WILL get another starting job in this league...thats a fact

Not a chance. He's the worst one out there...he'd replace nobody in the NFL as a starter. Not one.

[SenorGato]

Sanchez has NO team around him....none at all....

Anyone else really sick of hearing this? It's not true. Tom Brady routinely carries a bunch of JAGs to places they shouldn't be. Eli Manning loses Nicks and goes out and gives Ramses Barden and Domenik Hixon 100+ yard games. Philip Rivers turns Vincent Jackson into a big money WR, loses him, and now is turning 31 year old JAG WR Malcolm Floyd into a very productive pass catcher. Not only that, but The Rivers does it with an OL that has been pretty balls since Tomlinson's prime ended.

Sanchez sucks, period. It's not any more complicated than that. The Jets have done pretty much everything that can be done to give him players outside of outright tanking at the right time for a truly elite WR prospect like an AJ Green.

[kay_gee]

If Sanchez sucks and the Jets had that figured out, why DIDN'T they surround him with good talent? Answer: front office doesn't know how to run a football team.

[Bugg]

Bugg, the point wasnt that Sanchez is gonna win the super bowl this year.....its that we as fans really have no clue....NONE....about how to evaluate talent at the NFL level...we are waaaaay too knee jerk to objectively make these kinds of decisions.

Sanchez isnt Manning.....not yet at least

Sanchez isnt Ryan Leaf.....not yet at least

if they start tebow, sanchez never plays another down for the Jets ever again.....id rather see sanchez play out the rest of the year and allow him to chuck it 45 times a game.......if he plays well than we have our answer at qb and can address the MULTITUDE of problems on this team......if he plays poorly then we will have lost a ton of games and be in position to draft someone else to play qb or trade down and stockpile picks.....the point is we dont know who sanchez is yet......i do know that if he is cut by the Jets he WILL get another starting job in this league...thats a fact

Grant you there are other issues with the team. But Sanchez is at fault as much as anyone. So we go on allowing this debacle to go forward until when exactly? I saw AGAIN Sunday why Sanchez will NEVER be a serious NFL QB. That fumble and his whole pathetic performance was the latest in a long line of pitiful messes. Sanches right now doens't complete half his passes, he has zero pocket poise and presence and he doesn't protect the ball.

The thread was started, as has often been done here, to argue-

1. Eli Manning struggled in hsi first 4 seasons;

2. Eli manning won the Super Bowl and performed exceptionally down the stretch and into the Super Bowl in year 4;

3. mark Sanchez has had struggles voer his first 4 seasons;

4. This is Sanchez's 4th season;

5. THEREFORE Sanchez will now blossom as Eli did.

THIS IS YOUR ARUGMENT, NOT MINE. AND NOW YOU RUN AWAY FROM IT WITH NONSENSE ABOUT THE TALENT LEVEL, THE COACHING, THE WEATHER, WHAT EVER.

IT'S A VAPID STUPID sh*tTY ARGUMENT THAT TAKES A HUGE UNJUSTIFIED LEAP. IT'S UNSUPPORTED WISHFUL THINKING. IT IGNORE THE LEGION of OTHER NFL QBS WHO ALSO STRUGGLED AND CONTINUED TO SUCK LIKE SANCHEZ DOES RIGHT NOW.

As to my offer of a bet, CRICKETS. OF COURSE.

[Bugg]

Bugg, the point wasnt that Sanchez is gonna win the super bowl this year.....its that we as fans really have no clue....NONE....about how to evaluate talent at the NFL level...we are waaaaay too knee jerk to objectively make these kinds of decisions.

Sanchez isnt Manning.....not yet at least

Sanchez isnt Ryan Leaf.....not yet at least

if they start tebow, sanchez never plays another down for the Jets ever again.....id rather see sanchez play out the rest of the year and allow him to chuck it 45 times a game.......if he plays well than we have our answer at qb and can address the MULTITUDE of problems on this team......if he plays poorly then we will have lost a ton of games and be in position to draft someone else to play qb or trade down and stockpile picks.....the point is we dont know who sanchez is yet......i do know that if he is cut by the Jets he WILL get another starting job in this league...thats a fact

You're right. Leaf wised up enough to know by this point he would never make it in the NFL. Sanchez has another big money year guaranteed so he will still be collecting a check next year. Good work, Tanny!

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Bugg, all im saying is if that the Giants fans were saying the same thing bout Eli in week 4 of the 2007 season that we are saying about Sanchez in week 4 of the 2012 season......if the Giants front office listened to them and benched Eli then the Giants would have 2 less super bowls today.....just because 90% of this message board thinks Sanchez sucks doesnt mean that it is true in real life....its the internet ya know

if sanchez had talent around him then i would take you up on your bet.....but honestly i think i could get better odds in vegas that what you are offering so i will respectfully decline.

at the end of the day this post was about historical perspective....not winning the super bowl this year

[Bugg]

Bugg, all im saying is if that the Giants fans were saying the same thing bout Eli in week 4 of the 2007 season that we are saying about Sanchez in week 4 of the 2012 season......if the Giants front office listened to them and benched Eli then the Giants would have 2 less super bowls today.....just because 90% of this message board thinks Sanchez sucks doesnt mean that it is true in real life....its the internet ya know

if sanchez had talent around him then i would take you up on your bet.....but honestly i think i could get better odds in vegas that what you are offering so i will respectfully decline.

at the end of the day this post was about historical perspective....not winning the super bowl this year

RUNNING AWAY FROM YOUR OWN ARGUMENT.

[DoubleDown]

Eli Manning is the exception, not the rule. To hang your hat on "well, maybe it will happen for Sanchez too..." is naive at best.

The league has changed dramatically in the past five years. The rules have been geared toward a passing league, teams are gaining more yards and scoring more points than ever, and quarterbacks are having a decent level of success right off the bat. There have only been five quarterbacks in history who threw for over 5000 yards in a season, and three of those happened last year. The first four weeks of this season had the most points scored out of any four week period in NFL history. Players like Griffin, Dalton, Ponder, Luck, etc. are playing at a relatively high level from the onset of their careers.

Let's look at this era of football objectively and face the facts. Sanchez doesn't have what it takes to be an NFL starting quarterback circa 2012.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

dude, you are being obtuse at this point........if you think that sanchez is a bigger problem than mr tanny than god bless you.......i just want you to answer me one question.......what skill player on the Jets are opposing defensive coordinators losing sleep over?? ill be waiting for your answer.......

[Strangefunk]

ELI MANNING IS NOT MARK SANCHEZ

Eli Manning Enjoys nice walks with his wife

Mark Sanchez Enjoys romps in the hay with Eva Longoria...

Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowl Wins

Mark Sanchez has 2 magazine covers

Eli Manning comes from a Football QB Family

Mark Sanchez plays football to pay da bills

Eli Manning doesn't pout

Mark Sanchez Pouts when he gets a hangnail

Eli Manning is a leader

Mark Sanchez looks around before speaking up

Eli Manning's team respects him

Mark Sanchez gets props from his team mates for shagging hot gals, not his football prowess.

Eli Manning is brave.

Mark Sanchez Likes the movie "Brave"

Eli Manning like to eat steak

Mark Sanchez Loves Tacos.

DIFFERENT PEOPLE! DIFFERENT RESULTS...

[Vicious89x]

I really hate these type of arguments. You can't use correlation to predict future results. That's like saying "Well 2 people got attacked by sharks on a day they ate ice cream." The ice cream would have no significant impact on why these people got attacked by sharks. You can't simply make that correlation, if you did then you'd have to say no one can go into the ocean after having consumed ice cream because sharks will ****ing eat your face.

I also hate people that misrepresent statistics to make correlative arguments. If you had taken longer than 30 seconds, you'd see this was week 11. You then picked Eli's statistically worst game of the year. Here's his QB rating/Completion for the weeks prior:

113/68

75.5/55

63/58

65/53

86/52

87/69

78/58

44/36

72/67

100/71

Then his horrible game against the vikings came. MEANWHILE, ON THE JETS....

123/70

66/37

58/46

39/44

Those are Sanchez's #'s for this year in terms of rating/completion %. I'm failing to see how you can even try to correlate these #'s. Eli even in his worst times was still at LEAST completing 50% of his passes on the average. Sanchez can't break 50% here. And I'm sure you'll talk about drops and other factors that are not statistically measurable, but that's your agenda since the #'s predict a fate much different than Eli.You're picking at little blips.

TL;DR- Your comparison is misguided, Sanchez does not = Eli.

[RutgersJetFan]

You can't use correlation to predict future results.

Yes you can. But this thread isn't a correlation. Simply saying things correlate doesn't mean they correlate. This isn't Nam, there are rules.

[Vicious89x]

Yes you can. But this thread isn't a correlation. Simply saying things correlate doesn't mean they correlate. This isn't Nam, there are rules.

I suppose that was my general point. Correlation is a starting point- not an end argument IMO.