The polar opposite of Sanchez

[Integrity28]

Dude, Google "Mark Sanchez work ethic" and there are several articles given by different individuals! Where their is smoke.....

 

The original post was regarding how focused Geno is. From OTA's until TC he has significantly improved his foot work, Taking snaps from center, 3 step and 5 step drops and commanding the hundle and barking out the call.

 

Where has Mark improved after 4 years? He's gone backwards. He got the big money, and it shows. Geno's hungry and it shows.

 

Don't tell me Mark works hard, because we would at least see some improvement somewhere. He's regressed in every area.

 

Nobody is arguing that Mark improved after 4 years.

 

People are contesting the claim that he has a crappy work ethic. If you are going to insist on arguing, then stick to the point of contention. The past 4 years have shown an overwhelming slant towards articles confirming Sanchez works his ass off. I don't care what Kris Jenkins says, he's an aspiring "journalist" now who only gets asked current Jets-team related questions, so he may just be offering a contrarian soundbyte to garner some attention.

 

Either way, we know Sanchez works. The problem with Sanchez is that his hard work doesn't translate to the field, but you cannot fault him for trying. The effort to improve is there.

[Integrity28]

You guys are a bunch of soccer moms. Sanchez lives at the facility and stays in world-class shape, but he also poses for GQ and has weird naked Vine parties and just generally acts like an entitled SoCal candyboy. He's also ungodly terrible at football. Questioning his work ethic is perfectly acceptable.

 

I think it's a semantics issue - like I've said in the past, he studies his ass off... perhaps he's studying the wrong things, or the wrong way, or doesn't have the aptitude to apply what he learns in his studies. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the work ethic to try an improve.

 

I think the issue with him is clearly the bold. That's why he is teh suck.

[T0mShane]

I think it's a semantics issue - like I've said in the past, he studies his ass off... perhaps he's studying the wrong things, or the wrong way, or doesn't have the aptitude to apply what he learns in his studies. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the work ethic to try an improve.

I think the issue with him is clearly the bold. That's why he is teh suck.

I've never seen one source other that Rexlol claim that Mark "works his ass off."

[Jetsfan80]

sure, a once every 10 years QB prospect would help, but that's not what I was getting at

 

both QB's are turnover machines with no talent around them, so it really doesn't matter who plays

 

just accept it now

 

Turnover machine?  Geno threw 42 TD's to just 6 INT's last year.  I will not "accept it now" until I see the kid in action.  Sanchez blows.   Geno might not.

[Gastineau Lives]

It doesn't matter what Mark Sanchez' work ethic is. Just like the Wonderlic being an antiquated and incorrect assessment on whether a quarterback will be good or not, work ethic and film study are overrated, I believe. Once you reach a certain saturation point, which most quarterbacks naturally do as part of their job, it still comes down to the ability to make split second decisions on where to go with the football, all the logic and preparation in the world will not help you, you have to do it in the moment and Sanchez is just not good at that.

[Sperm Edwards]

It doesn't matter what Mark Sanchez' work ethic is. Just like the Wonderlic being an antiquated and incorrect assessment on whether a quarterback will be good or not, work ethic and film study are overrated, I believe. Once you reach a certain saturation point, which most quarterbacks naturally do as part of their job, it still comes down to the ability to make split second decisions on where to go with the football, all the logic and preparation in the world will not help you, you have to do it in the moment and Sanchez is just not good at that.

 

Wonderlic Scores:

 

28 = Mark Sanchez

28 = Peyton Manning

28 = Drew Brees

28 = Russell Wilson

 

27 = Ryan Leaf

42 = Blaine Gabbert

40 = Alex Smith

22 = Brett Favre

15 = Dan Marino

15 = Jim Kelly

 

(there are many others, just at QB, where you can see below-average (31.5 = avg) scores equal to "smart QBs" like Manning/Brees/Wilson, even lower like HOFers Marino or Kelly, and really high scores for sucky QBs who do stupid things like Smith, Gabbert, Fitzpatrick (48), and as we saw last year, McElroy (43).

 

Any pre-draft test or drill is administered because it's supposed to shed some light as to someone's potential in one area or another.  QB would seem to be the position where an "intelligence" aptitude test - particularly a timed one that requires faster thinking - matters more than for others.

 

At what point do they just stop administering this test given the zero correlation it has with success or failure on the field, or even a correlation with doing smart vs stupid things on the field?

[CTM]

It doesn't matter what Mark Sanchez' work ethic is. Just like the Wonderlic being an antiquated and incorrect assessment on whether a quarterback will be good or not, work ethic and film study are overrated, I believe. Once you reach a certain saturation point, which most quarterbacks naturally do as part of their job, it still comes down to the ability to make split second decisions on where to go with the football, all the logic and preparation in the world will not help you, you have to do it in the moment and Sanchez is just not good at that.

 

not true, game plan changes every week as does opponent.  The best QB"s are the ones working the hardest, almost certainly. It's too tough a job to get by on talent alone

[Gastineau Lives]

not true, game plan changes every week as does opponent.  The best QB"s are the ones working the hardest, almost certainly. It's too tough a job to get by on talent alone.

I doubt that an extra two hours of film study would turn Mark Sanchez into Peyton Manning or the reverse would be true.

 

I'm sure there have been tons of well prepared quarterbacks that have been absolutely horrible. Are you saying that all it takes is preparation and that you can systematically go down the line of the top passers from 1-32 and that will correlate to the amount of preparation they do?

 

Also, wouldn't a genius like Gabbert NEED LESS time to "prepare" than an dumb-dumb like Dan Marino?

[Jetsfan80]

I doubt that an extra two hours of film study would turn Mark Sanchez into Peyton Manning or the reverse would be true.

 

I'm sure there have been tons of well prepared quarterbacks that have been absolutely horrible. Are you saying that all it takes is preparation and that you can systematically go down the line of the top passers from 1-32 and that will correlate to the amount of preparation they do?

 

Also, wouldn't a genius like Gabbert NEED LESS time to "prepare" than an dumb-dumb like Dan Marino?

 

He's saying that the best QB's have the talent AND the worth ethic.  Peyton Manning is considered one of the best.  Why?  Because he has the athletic ability to play the positon, is cerebral, and prepares better than anyone.  Most of the work he does during games happens before the snap even occurs.  The split-second decision making sometimes is unnecessary for him because he reads the defense so well and the decision of where to throw the ball becomes easy. 

 

Its why Rex Ryan considers Peyton the best.  He rarely gets flustered by a great defensive gameplan, because Peyton has a tendency to be a step ahead of the defense MOST (but not all) times he takes the field.

 

Hard work alone does not make a QB, but hard work along with ability is what makes GREAT QB's rather than just good QB's.

[Gastineau Lives]

He's saying that the best QB's have the talent AND the worth ethic.  Peyton Manning is considered one of the best.  Why?  Because he has the athletic ability to play the positon, is cerebral, and prepares better than anyone.  Most of the work he does during games happens before the snap even occurs.  The split-second decision making sometimes is unnecessary for him because he reads the defense so well and the decision of where to throw the ball becomes easy.

 

Hard work alone does not make a QB, but hard work along with ability is what makes GREAT QB's rather than just good QB's.

Some people are naturally better decision makers than others. It happens in the moment. Sure, preparation has a hand, but when it comes to split second decision making, the innate ability to make the correct decision is at least as important, if not more than any logical preparation. That and being able to hit the broadside of a barn helps.

 

I just doubt that Blaine Gabbert is getting less out of his preparation time than Peyton Manning is, on an intellectual level. Or Mark Sanchez, for that matter. It wasn't lack of preparation that caused him to run into Brandon Moore's ass.

 

There's a great book called "How We Decide" by Johan Lehrer. His first example on human decision making is Tom Brady. It's a great read.

[Jetsfan80]

Some people are naturally better decision makers than others. It happens in the moment. Sure, preparation has a hand, but when it comes to split second decision making, the innate ability to make the correct decision is at least as important, if not more than any logical preparation. That and being able to hit the broadside of a barn helps.

 

I just doubt that Blaine Gabbert is getting less out of his preparation time than Peyton Manning is, on an intellectual level. Or Mark Sanchez, for that matter. It wasn't lack of preparation that caused him to run into Brandon Moore's ass.

 

Just as the hardest working QB doesn't necessarilly become the best QB, the smartest QB who doesn't prepare much isn't necessarilly going to become the best QB either.  Talent & ability plus intelligence and worth ethic all are contributing factors. 

 

Sanchez can't play because he sucks at football.  Period.  Same with Gabbert.  But some QB's that CAN play the game are served well with preparation.  It can make the difference on a key play or 2 every game.  If you know the tendency of how a safety tends to react to a certain play, the well-prepared QB can draw him in with a fake then make a throw over the top for a TD.  Happens a lot in the NFL.  QB's have to be the total package.

[Integrity28]

I've never seen one source other that Rexlol claim that Mark "works his ass off."

 

Oh, I take you very serious let me spend the rest of my day arguing all the examples where I've seen it. LOL GFY

[CTM]

Some people are naturally better decision makers than others. It happens in the moment. Sure, preparation has a hand, but when it comes to split second decision making, the innate ability to make the correct decision is at least as important, if not more than any logical preparation. That and being able to hit the broadside of a barn helps.

 

I just doubt that Blaine Gabbert is getting less out of his preparation time than Peyton Manning is, on an intellectual level. Or Mark Sanchez, for that matter. It wasn't lack of preparation that caused him to run into Brandon Moore's ass.

 

There's a great book called "How We Decide" by Johan Lehrer. His first example on human decision making is Tom Brady. It's a great read.

 

 

Not true.. it's a learned behavior through repetition.. Some people have a natural advantage for  sure, but what you see as split second decision making is the brain quickly interpreting what it's seeing, relating it to it's past experience and executing what it's been taught. Think about playing a musical instrument, after enough repetition your fingers move without conscious thought.

[Gastineau Lives]

Not true.. it's a learned behavior through repetition.. Some people have a natural advantage for  sure, but what you see as split second decision making is the brain quickly interpreting what it's seeing, relating it to it's past experience and executing what it's been taught. Think about playing a musical instrument, after enough repetition your fingers move without conscious thought.

No, you're exactly right. But it has to physically be done. Whether watching a film is doing something physically, I guess is what we're debating, no?

[CTM]

No, you're exactly right. But it has to physically be done. Whether watching a film is doing something physically, I guess is what we're debating, no?

 

 

Watching film = watching defensive tendancies  = moving knowledge of what defense is doing into subconscious for quicker recall

[Gastineau Lives]

Watching film = watching defensive tendancies  = moving knowledge of what defense is doing into subconscious for quicker recall

Right, but I think that this is not something that is achieved on a week to week basis, but is more the sum of one's "learning" from past experience, i.e. on the field, three dimensional experience plus whatever one's innate ability is (a sixth sense? talent?)

 

I doubt that it's as simple as Sanchez (or any other crappy QB) just not being studious enough or spending enough time in a film room.

[CTM]

Right, but I think that this is not something that is achieved on a week to week basis, but is more the sum of one's "learning" from past experience, i.e. on the field, three dimensional experience plus whatever one's innate ability is (a sixth sense? talent?)

 

I doubt that it's as simple as Sanchez (or any other crappy QB) just not being studious enough or spending enough time in a film room.

 

 

it's both, but again, this is game planning.. it's recognizing defenses and knowing without thinking about it where the ball should go. This part is repetition and hard work

[JoeKlecko]

It doesn't matter what Mark Sanchez' work ethic is. Just like the Wonderlic being an antiquated and incorrect assessment on whether a quarterback will be good or not, work ethic and film study are overrated, I believe. Once you reach a certain saturation point, which most quarterbacks naturally do as part of their job, it still comes down to the ability to make split second decisions on where to go with the football, all the logic and preparation in the world will not help you, you have to do it in the moment and Sanchez is just not good at that.

 

I basically agree with you regarding the Wunderlic, but I don't think it was ever intended to be the sole determining factor, just one among several or many.  It's not totally outdated or incorrect, either.  Vince Young had a 6 I think.  A lot of players who have been phenomenal athletes but borderline stupid or retarded never develop into quality football players.  Look at Vlad Ducasse.  He has all the physical tools in the world, but not the mental aptitude.  I think where the Wunderlic is flawed is that it measures general intelligence vs. football intelligence.  I think they need to come up with a version that will somehow test the players' football intelligence as well as character perhaps.

 

There's also no doubt that some players work their butts off to no avail, while others coast on native ability.   I don't think Brett Favre ever worked hard mentally to improve his decision making. His last year in the NFL he was still making the same mind-numbingly stupid forced throws and mistakes that he made his rookie year.  He was either lazy, stubborn, or just stupid in that regard.  

 

I do think some players' work ethic can be called into question, as well as perhaps what they're working on or the way they work to learn something.  Sometimes there's a big difference between working hard and long and working smart.  People learn in different ways.  I think that's one way that the NFL is seeking to learn and improve, but sometimes things change slowly because a lot of the coaches aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.  The only way they know how to "teach" is to yell, curse, etc.  That doesn't work with every player, and in fact, with some it will hinder their development.  Some people learn better visually, some aurally, some kinesthetically.  

 

I agree with you regarding Sanchez.  I just don't think he has the mental ability to put it all together and produce at a high level under pressure.  Maybe a sports shrink could help him, but I doubt it.

[Greenseed4]

Peyton Manning is considered one of the best. Why? Because he has the athletic ability to play the positon, is cerebral, and prepares better than anyone..

...and also because of his huge (telepathy honing) forehead.

[Vudu]

Most QB's would struggle with the lack of talent on the Jets. Confidence is a major issue, who do the Jets have to step up and make plays?

[#27TheDominator]

Not true.  QB play drives just about everything these days.  Andrew Luck took an awful team from 2 wins to 11 despite lacking talent around him.  No, we can't say that Geno is Andrew Luck, but if he's significantly better than Sanchez (not difficult), our offense will decidedly NOT be atrocious.

 

Andrew Luck?  Eh.  That was smoke, mirrors and schedule.  The Jets dismantled that team last year.  Pennington did the same thing in 2006.  Whoopty Damn Doo.  Even with Sanchez this team was considerable better in '09 and '10 than last year's Colts, even if you believe the '09 team was gifted the playoffs.  I want to know when people are going to start apologizing to Brian Schottenheimer. 

[Jetsfan80]

Andrew Luck?  Eh.  That was smoke, mirrors and schedule.  The Jets dismantled that team last year.  Pennington did the same thing in 2006.  Whoopty Damn Doo.  Even with Sanchez this team was considerable better in '09 and '10 than last year's Colts, even if you believe the '09 team was gifted the playoffs.  I want to know when people are going to start apologizing to Brian Schottenheimer. 

 

Yeah, I get it.  Luck wasn't as good last year as most believed.  But the "smoke and mirrors"-ing your way from 2 wins to 11 is still pretty amazing.  Would you complain if we went from 6 to 10 wins with mostly "smoke and mirrors" but also a good working relationship between Geno and Morhinweg?  Of course you wouldn't.

[Sperm Edwards]

Andrew Luck?  Eh.  That was smoke, mirrors and schedule.  The Jets dismantled that team last year.  Pennington did the same thing in 2006.  Whoopty Damn Doo.  Even with Sanchez this team was considerable better in '09 and '10 than last year's Colts, even if you believe the '09 team was gifted the playoffs.  I want to know when people are going to start apologizing to Brian Schottenheimer. 

 

You know perfectly well that Schottenheimer told Sanchez to keep turning the ball over as part of his gameplan because he's that much of a meathead.  In 4 years it's clear he also never spent time with Sanchez in a QB-coach-type capacity.  He taught Sanchez all the wrong things and Brees/Rivers all the right things.  He just had it out for Sanchez because he's a stupid dummyhead who wanted him to fail.

 

That being said I think I was fair to Schottenheimer.  He may not have been as bad as some have said - since he was pretty much blamed for Sanchez's DNA - but I don't wish he was back here.  He was plenty bad in his own right often enough.  Off the field I'm sure he knows his stuff and can teach it, and while he has called good individual games in the past, I was never happy with his playcalling over any multi-game stretch in his 6 years here.  

[nycdan]

Yeah, I get it.  Luck wasn't as good last year as most believed.  But the "smoke and mirrors"-ing your way from 2 wins to 11 is still pretty amazing.  Would you complain if we went from 6 to 10 wins with mostly "smoke and mirrors" but also a good working relationship between Geno and Morhinweg?  Of course you wouldn't.

 

Tebow smoke-and-mirrored Denver to a ridiculous number of consecutive wins in 2011.  Doesn't mean I want him on the Jets.

 

Oh wait....

[Bleedin Green]

You know perfectly well that Schottenheimer told Sanchez to keep turning the ball over as part of his gameplan because he's that much of a meathead.  In 4 years it's clear he also never spent time with Sanchez in a QB-coach-type capacity.  He taught Sanchez all the wrong things and Brees/Rivers all the right things.  He just had it out for Sanchez because he's a stupid dummyhead who wanted him to fail.

 

That being said I think I was fair to Schottenheimer.  He may not have been as bad as some have said - since he was pretty much blamed for Sanchez's DNA - but I don't wish he was back here.  He was plenty bad in his own right often enough.  Off the field I'm sure he knows his stuff and can teach it, and while he has called good individual games in the past, I was never happy with his playcalling over any multi-game stretch in his 6 years here.  

 

The end of this says it all for me.  Schotty is not at fault for Sanchez's ineptitude, but that doesn't change that Schotty was a pretty crappy play-caller.  I still can't ever remember seeing any other offense that so regularly saw multiple WRs running to the same exact spot on the field.  It never ended well either.

[#27TheDominator]

Yeah, I get it.  Luck wasn't as good last year as most believed.  But the "smoke and mirrors"-ing your way from 2 wins to 11 is still pretty amazing.  Would you complain if we went from 6 to 10 wins with mostly "smoke and mirrors" but also a good working relationship between Geno and Morhinweg?  Of course you wouldn't.

 

I think Luck will be great, I just don't think the Colts were worth sh*t last year, improved QB play or not.  I am always happy with an improved record, but the idea is improvement.  There are plenty of people on this board that think of 2009 and 2010 as failed seasons because the Jets didn't win the super bowl and IMO the 2012 Colts were WAY worse than either of those teams. 

 

You know perfectly well that Schottenheimer told Sanchez to keep turning the ball over as part of his gameplan because he's that much of a meathead.  In 4 years it's clear he also never spent time with Sanchez in a QB-coach-type capacity.  He taught Sanchez all the wrong things and Brees/Rivers all the right things.  He just had it out for Sanchez because he's a stupid dummyhead who wanted him to fail.

 

That being said I think I was fair to Schottenheimer.  He may not have been as bad as some have said - since he was pretty much blamed for Sanchez's DNA - but I don't wish he was back here.  He was plenty bad in his own right often enough.  Off the field I'm sure he knows his stuff and can teach it, and while he has called good individual games in the past, I was never happy with his playcalling over any multi-game stretch in his 6 years here.  

 

I'm not saying that I want him back.  I probably liked him more than most, except maybe Gato, but he was too cute for me. Too many people here thought the Jets offense was bad because of Schottenhiemer when it was bad because of Sanchez.  I guess maybe it was Callahan.  He left and it all went to sh*t! He really tore things up in Dallas!