We need to trade for a WR

[T0mShane]

Just read an article by some blogger who kinda sorta debunked the year-long suspension myth. The NFL keeps it confidential what stage of the program you're in, so there's no guarantee that Gordon is in Stage Three (the one where you get the year-long hook). The fact that Gordon had his suspension cut in half (it was for codeine) might mean that he's still in Stage Two. It's only presumed that he's in Stage Three.

[The Crusher]

Could we just get through this year, evaluate Geno then use whatever means necessary to dreaft the best wideout in the draft?  That sh*t would be nice for a change.

[sh4dy15]

Just read an article by some blogger who kinda sorta debunked the year-long suspension myth. The NFL keeps it confidential what stage of the program you're in, so there's no guarantee that Gordon is in Stage Three (the one where you get the year-long hook). The fact that Gordon had his suspension cut in half (it was for codeine) might mean that he's still in Stage Two. It's only presumed that he's in Stage Three.

This makes this trsde even more interesting. I know people will not agree but he is a beast that will make an instant impact....those are the types of players you look to draft in round 1. I dont know if I would give them a 1 but a 2 and a player doesnt sound unreasonable depending on who the player is. Not sure if theyre even seriously looking to trade him tho.

[Sperm Edwards]

Agreed on Gordon, he also is on his rookie contract and won't cost the Jets any money for 2 years, I'd throw a 2 at Cleveland.

 

Precisely why a trade for Gordon is NOT a move that would be made for 2013.  

 

He would be our 2014 draft pick.  

 

- On the one hand he'd only have a 2 year deal instead of a 4 year deal before he needs a new (big) contract.

 

- On the other hand it will be similar to most WRs in that it will be the same 2 years of him playing at the level of a true #1 WR (rookies and 2nd year WRs seldom do; he is one of the exceptions).

 

Nice bonus is that we get an extra 8 (really 7) games to use him.  But having him in 2013 is the least of the reasons to acquire him now. You acquire him now because now is when he is available.  It is possible that he will also be available after the season.  It's even possible that asking price of the top pick might be a round lower.  It's also possible that, after the combine, Lombardi decides Cleveland is better off with their sure thing instead of needing to burn one of their #1 picks to get one that will hopefully, eventually be as good.  

 

If this is the type of receiver we need - and he is - you get him when he's available instead of guessing about his availability later ,or guessing that we'll be able to draft someone who will be at his level within a couple seasons.  Sick thing is he's 22 and is still a few years of experience away from reaching his potential.  22 year-old receivers who are 100% sure things to be able to perform at the pro level, and who still have 2.5 years left on dirt-cheap rookie contracts, are never available.  Never.  

[Sperm Edwards]

This makes this trsde even more interesting. I know people will not agree but he is a beast that will make an instant impact....those are the types of players you look to draft in round 1. I dont know if I would give them a 1 but a 2 and a player doesnt sound unreasonable depending on who the player is. Not sure if theyre even seriously looking to trade him tho.

 

Also a possibility, if the rumors have any truth to them, that the net cost might be a little less than a #2.  If the top pick of all offers so far are mid- or lower- 3rd round picks, then offering them our #2 might net a pick back to us like a 5th or 6th.  Further, a year when we're flush with draft picks (granted, not flush with 2nd round picks) is a good time to trade one of them.  When we're already down to 4 or 5 picks as our starting point is when it's a bad move to trade more away.

 

Say we end up with our original 7 picks, plus a 3 or 4 for Revis, and we get the maximum 4 compensatory picks, which seems entirely likely.  There is no way, even on a team with so many needs, that 12 rookies (not even counting any UDFAs we take a shot on; there's always 1 or 2 surprises for everyone) make this team.  There's only the smallest of chances that even 8 of them make it even for only 1 or 2 years.  

 

He's clearly a bit of a gamble for the obvious reason that he's already on Goodell's sh*t list and one more slip-up gets him a year off.  I see that as no greater gamble than a mid-2nd round pick never reaches Gordon's level of play.  Statistically speaking there is maybe a 1/4 chance that a 2nd rounder turns into a pro bowl caliber player.  Less still for a 3rd rounder if they somehow end up taking that (though it seems unlikely so far).

 

The clincher for me is that he doesn't need a new, mammoth contract extension until 2016 (and even then he's taggable if we can't reach a deal right away) and hopefully the cap is managed well enough that we should have no trouble fitting his next contract in.  The other thing to consider (however minor) is that if his asking price is in the Wallace/Harvin stratosphere by then, and we can't reach a deal, and don't want to tag him, we'll net a 3rd round compensatory pick if someone else signs him.  That pick would be in 2017, though.  

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Could we just get through this year, evaluate Geno then use whatever means necessary to dreaft the best wideout in the draft? That sh*t would be nice for a change.

No, because our BPA will be a Dlineman or a CB and we cannot pick someone who is not our BPA on our draft board, because we cannot afford to miss out on The next Dee.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Precisely why a trade for Gordon is NOT a move that would be made for 2013.

He would be our 2014 draft pick.

- On the one hand he'd only have a 2 year deal instead of a 4 year deal before he needs a new (big) contract.

- On the other hand it will be similar to most WRs in that it will be the same 2 years of him playing at the level of a true #1 WR (rookies and 2nd year WRs seldom do; he is one of the exceptions).

Nice bonus is that we get an extra 8 (really 7) games to use him. But having him in 2013 is the least of the reasons to acquire him now. You acquire him now because now is when he is available. It is possible that he will also be available after the season. It's even possible that asking price of the top pick might be a round lower. It's also possible that, after the combine, Lombardi decides Cleveland is better off with their sure thing instead of needing to burn one of their #1 picks to get one that will hopefully, eventually be as good.

If this is the type of receiver we need - and he is - you get him when he's available instead of guessing about his availability later ,or guessing that we'll be able to draft someone who will be at his level within a couple seasons. Sick thing is he's 22 and is still a few years of experience away from reaching his potential. 22 year-old receivers who are 100% sure things to be able to perform at the pro level, and who still have 2.5 years left on dirt-cheap rookie contracts, are never available. Never.

I agree 100%.

I have not seen him play enough to know if he is the real deal, but if he is, I'm not sure out first round pick in next year would not be worthwhile here.

[faba]

Could we just get through this year, evaluate Geno then use whatever means necessary to dreaft the best wideout in the draft?  That sh*t would be nice for a change.

I will be shocked if Idzik makes a move today- everything he has done so far would suggest no way-

[Integrity28]

Very true. Id trade a 5-6-7 for  Britt and  2-3 for Gordon WR problems would be fixed immediately. We have a lot of draft picks next year.

 

Nothing about what you are suggesting is plausible, because you expect other teams to give us huge discounts (Gordon is worth more than a 2 or 3) or because the players you have a boner for are not really very good (Britt is as consistent as Hill, but with off-the-field nonsense).

 

Diarrhea, as usual. 

[Integrity28]

Could we just get through this year, evaluate Geno then use whatever means necessary to dreaft the best wideout in the draft?  That sh*t would be nice for a change.

 

**** that, if we lose as many games as I think we will the rest of the way, we'll be a top 12 pick. I want us grabbing a QB 100x over. Keeping picking them until you get THE ONE.

[Integrity28]

According to  http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=WR&Year=2014

 

These are the Projected FA WRs in 2014:

 

Hakeem Nicks

Eric Decker

Jeremy Maclin

Anquan Boldin

James Jones

Golden Tate

Jacoby Jones

Brandon LaFell

Ted Ginn, Jr.

Jacoby Ford

and a slew of others

 

 

 

 

Projected FA TEs

 

Jimmy Graham - won't go anywhere

Jermichael Finley - if he doesn't retire, won't go anywhere

Dennis Pitta

Brandon Pettigrew

Fred Davis

Scott Chandler

and others

 

http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=TE&Year=2014

 

The Jets could sign one of each in FA and still have cap $s and all their draft picks left

 

Thanks for compiling this.

 

I think you go out and sign James Jones, Dennis Pitta and then lean on the draft. Bring in some guys that have been to the big show and who know how to get in the end zone. This idiocy about trading away all of our picks to teams like the Browns and Titans will do nothing but makes us the next decade's version of the Browns or Titans. Keep your picks and use them wisely. Acquire veterans who can contribute via FA once the cap situation is rectified.

 

This "trade for this, trade for that" threads are ******* ridiculous. 

[sh4dy15]

Also a possibility, if the rumors have any truth to them, that the net cost might be a little less than a #2.  If the top pick of all offers so far are mid- or lower- 3rd round picks, then offering them our #2 might net a pick back to us like a 5th or 6th.  Further, a year when we're flush with draft picks (granted, not flush with 2nd round picks) is a good time to trade one of them.  When we're already down to 4 or 5 picks as our starting point is when it's a bad move to trade more away.

 

Say we end up with our original 7 picks, plus a 3 or 4 for Revis, and we get the maximum 4 compensatory picks, which seems entirely likely.  There is no way, even on a team with so many needs, that 12 rookies (not even counting any UDFAs we take a shot on; there's always 1 or 2 surprises for everyone) make this team.  There's only the smallest of chances that even 8 of them make it even for only 1 or 2 years.  

 

He's clearly a bit of a gamble for the obvious reason that he's already on Goodell's sh*t list and one more slip-up gets him a year off.  I see that as no greater gamble than a mid-2nd round pick never reaches Gordon's level of play.  Statistically speaking there is maybe a 1/4 chance that a 2nd rounder turns into a pro bowl caliber player.  Less still for a 3rd rounder if they somehow end up taking that (though it seems unlikely so far).

 

The clincher for me is that he doesn't need a new, mammoth contract extension until 2016 (and even then he's taggable if we can't reach a deal right away) and hopefully the cap is managed well enough that we should have no trouble fitting his next contract in.  The other thing to consider (however minor) is that if his asking price is in the Wallace/Harvin stratosphere by then, and we can't reach a deal, and don't want to tag him, we'll net a 3rd round compensatory pick if someone else signs him.  That pick would be in 2017, though.  

 

I agree with everything you said here man. I just don't know if he is going to pull the trigger. And despite what some people seem to be insinuating here, this is not a "WIN NOW" move. He is 22 years old and clearly has the ability to be a monster WR. WR draft picks that are guaranteed to perform and have an impact do not exist no matter how good a prospect they are. This will allow Geno to really get on the same page with a pro bowl caliber receiver for the last 8 games of this season and give us a head start on next year.

[Matt39]

James Jones isnt worth giving a big contract to, imo. He's already 29. He's ok. But he's probably a 3rd option on a good team anyways.

 

Pitta I'd love, but I doubt he leaves Baltimore....and who knows with his health. Flacco loves him too.

[stugotz81]

James Jones isnt worth giving a big contract to, imo. He's already 29. He's ok. But he's probably a 3rd option on a good team anyways.

 

Pitta I'd love, but I doubt he leaves Baltimore....and who knows with his health. Flacco loves him too.

James Jones is a nobody without Rodgers throwing to him. I don't see anything special about him.  

 

When it comes to a tight end, we should just look at a nice sized Forward out of college that didn't make the NBA....I'm sure there is another Graham, Julius Thomas, Gonzalez and Gates out there.

[CobraVerde]

Stephen hill was supposed to be our guy but it's obvious he's not a #1..I'd rather find someone in the draft that waste a trade on no one...

[JoeKlecko]

None of the guys on this list (except Graham) are on Gordon's level IMO.  They're all complementary pieces.  Even someone like James Jones, I don't know what he'd be without Aaron Rodgers.  Gordon, on the other hand, is plenty used to awful QB play and still performs.

 

Acquiring someone like Gordon is NOT for this season.  It would be for the future.  I would liken it to using our normal draft pick next year on him, except that unlike draft picks - particularly those outside round 1 - he's a sure thing performance-wise.  He was a high 2 when he was drafted and if it was known he'd be this good he'd have gone higher.

 

Nicks & Maclin can't stay healthy.  Nicks & Decker have terrible hands.  Jones looks great with Aaron Rodgers but so does everyone.  Boldin is old and slow.  Tate is fine, but he's not a difference-maker like Gordon.  LaFell or Ginn or Ford are not even worth wasting the roster spot on.  They show up once a month like Hill.

 

As for the TEs, Graham I'd be all in on if he was going to be available, but he's not.  Even if he was, I doubt he'd choose the Jets over other teams that will also ante up what he's worth.  Finley also has very unreliable hands even with Rodgers and his insane pinpoint accuracy, and he may very well retire as you mentioned (or re-sign with GB).  None of the TEs other than Graham are difference-makers.

 

In short (which I'm incapable of), Graham (who won't be available to us) is the only player on this list on a par with Gordon. Frankly I think this year's "available" list sucks and we'd be throwing a lot of money at bad on one or more of them.  Possibly Jones, but again, we don't have Rodgers (or Nelson and Cobb and Finley all running routes at the same time).

 

You make some good points.  I haven't seen Gordon play (except in highlights) or many of those other players, so can't speak from personal experience how good or great he is or they are.  I'll trust you guys word on that.  That said, because many of those guys aren't top shelf like Gordon, they shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive.  Still, a number of these guys would offer an upgrade over most of the Jets' present WR or TE corps. Would it be perfect, no?  Rome wasn't built in a day, however, and if the Jets' target is 2015, it would put them on track and they'd have another year to upgrade even further. In addition, some of them play for division or conference foes, and signing them away would potentially weaken those teams.  For instance, Scott Chandler is ranked #17 on one list I saw, several spots ahead of Cumberland.  He may not offer a huge upgrade, but at the same time he'd weaken Buffalo a little.  Chandler has made some big catches for them, especially against us I think.  Similarly, Dennis Pitta has made some big plays for the Ravens.  He's no star, and isn't in the top 24 TEs at least for Fantasy rankings, but is a solid TE and would give us greater depth and dependability at TE.

 

LaFell is ranked just behind Kerley in WR rankings and is better than any WR the Jets have at present.  He's turned a corner this year.  The Panthers may try to keep him at all costs, but he's worth checking out.  Similarly, Ted Ginn, Jr. is no longer just a KR.  He has added a lot to Carolina's passing game, catching slants over the middle, running deep routes, etc.  He's better than Hill by far.  The Jets could draft their new #1, have LaFell at #2, Kerley in the slot, Hill as their #4 WR and maybe Nelson as their #5.  That would be a lot better receiving corps for Geno.  

 

My problem with Gordon is that he's one step away from being suspended for a year.  Not only is that a huge problem in and of itself, but even more problematic is the character concern.  He obviously has some demons with which he's struggling.  NYC may not be the best place in the world for a player who is struggling with addiction demons (of whatever kind).  As good as Gordon is and as much as he would potentially bring to the team, it would hurt the team at the same level if he were to get suspended.  Then there's the distraction factor as well.  Is it worth having that kind of distraction when the Jets are trying to build a winner?  If the Jets don't have to give up the farm to get him, I won't have a problem with giving up their 3rd round pick and a lower round pick, or maybe even their 2nd round pick, but they'd damned well better not miss on him and his character.  That means he not only had better not get suspended, but better get some counseling or in rehab and get straightened out, and then re-sign with the Jets when his contract is up.  I don't want to give up a second round pick plus quite possibly another to rent him for 1-2 years. 

[Sperm Edwards]

You make some good points.  I haven't seen Gordon play (except in highlights) or many of those other players, so can't speak from personal experience how good or great he is or they are.  I'll trust you guys word on that.  That said, because many of those guys aren't top shelf like Gordon, they shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive.  Still, a number of these guys would offer an upgrade over most of the Jets' present WR or TE corps. Would it be perfect, no?  Rome wasn't built in a day, however, and if the Jets' target is 2015, it would put them on track and they'd have another year to upgrade even further. In addition, some of them play for division or conference foes, and signing them away would potentially weaken those teams.  For instance, Scott Chandler is ranked #17 on one list I saw, several spots ahead of Cumberland.  He may not offer a huge upgrade, but at the same time he'd weaken Buffalo a little.  Chandler has made some big catches for them, especially against us I think.  Similarly, Dennis Pitta has made some big plays for the Ravens.  He's no star, and isn't in the top 24 TEs at least for Fantasy rankings, but is a solid TE and would give us greater depth and dependability at TE.

 

LaFell is ranked just behind Kerley in WR rankings and is better than any WR the Jets have at present.  He's turned a corner this year.  The Panthers may try to keep him at all costs, but he's worth checking out.  Similarly, Ted Ginn, Jr. is no longer just a KR.  He has added a lot to Carolina's passing game, catching slants over the middle, running deep routes, etc.  He's better than Hill by far.  The Jets could draft their new #1, have LaFell at #2, Kerley in the slot, Hill as their #4 WR and maybe Nelson as their #5.  That would be a lot better receiving corps for Geno.  

 

My problem with Gordon is that he's one step away from being suspended for a year.  Not only is that a huge problem in and of itself, but even more problematic is the character concern.  He obviously has some demons with which he's struggling.  NYC may not be the best place in the world for a player who is struggling with addiction demons (of whatever kind).  As good as Gordon is and as much as he would potentially bring to the team, it would hurt the team at the same level if he were to get suspended.  Then there's the distraction factor as well.  Is it worth having that kind of distraction when the Jets are trying to build a winner?  If the Jets don't have to give up the farm to get him, I won't have a problem with giving up their 3rd round pick and a lower round pick, or maybe even their 2nd round pick, but they'd damned well better not miss on him and his character.  That means he not only had better not get suspended, but better get some counseling or in rehab and get straightened out, and then re-sign with the Jets when his contract is up.  I don't want to give up a second round pick plus quite possibly another to rent him for 1-2 years. 

 

Some people keep saying this regarding the expense and I don't know where it comes from.  Gordon is DIRT CHEAP.  He is NOT expensive.  He makes under $1M this year, next year, and the year after that as well.  He is less expensive than anyone we'd draft in the first 2 rounds because Cleveland already paid his signing bonus last year.

 

He's not a bad kid.  He was a 21 year-old who tested positive for smoking weed.  He also drove his car fast.  Hardly "demons" IMO, and nothing that sniffs at requiring rehab.  When he gets caught with crack or heroin or meth or even if he's a drunk then we'll talk about rehab.  He doesn't have Santonio's attitude problems.  He was a 20-21 year-old who acted like it.  He's 22 now; at that age every year can be significant maturity-wise.  

 

There is no reason to think we'd rent him any more than anyone else.  He has 2.5 more years on his rookie contract.  After that, if he's deserving of a high-dollar extension, then he'll get it and deserve it.  THIS is what you save your cap money for: difference-makers.  He is no more of a risk than the risk of drafting another high-talent kid who has combine skills and is just so-so or worse on the field.

 

The other guys you mention show up once a month and are not special at all.  LOTS of guys have "made plays" but that doesn't mean they're special.  Stephen Hill has made some plays.  Dustin Keller made some plays.  Santonio Holmes made some plays.  Hell, Jeff Cumberland has made some plays.  None of them are stud receivers.

[Matt39]

Gordon would be a no brainer for a second rounder if he's available...little chance Cleveland trades him though unless a contender ponies up a first round pick last second imo.

[JoeKlecko]

Some people keep saying this regarding the expense and I don't know where it comes from.  Gordon is DIRT CHEAP.  He is NOT expensive.  He makes under $1M this year, next year, and the year after that as well.  He is less expensive than anyone we'd draft in the first 2 rounds because Cleveland already paid his signing bonus last year.

 

He's not a bad kid.  He was a 21 year-old who tested positive for smoking weed.  He also drove his car fast.  Hardly "demons" IMO, and nothing that sniffs at requiring rehab.  When he gets caught with crack or heroin or meth or even if he's a drunk then we'll talk about rehab.  He doesn't have Santonio's attitude problems.  He was a 20-21 year-old who acted like it.  He's 22 now; at that age every year can be significant maturity-wise.  

 

There is no reason to think we'd rent him any more than anyone else.  He has 2.5 more years on his rookie contract.  After that, if he's deserving of a high-dollar extension, then he'll get it and deserve it.  THIS is what you save your cap money for: difference-makers.  He is no more of a risk than the risk of drafting another high-talent kid who has combine skills and is just so-so or worse on the field.

 

The other guys you mention show up once a month and are not special at all.  LOTS of guys have "made plays" but that doesn't mean they're special.  Stephen Hill has made some plays.  Dustin Keller made some plays.  Santonio Holmes made some plays.  Hell, Jeff Cumberland has made some plays.  None of them are stud receivers.

 

I didn't say anything about his expense.  I couldn't, because I had no idea for certain what his contract was, although several posters here (possibly you) had said his contract value was low, so I wouldn't have.

 

If all the rest that you say is true, then I'd have no problems with a trade. That said, IMO if a player is close to being suspended for a year, then there are some character concerns.  Those just don't get handed out like flyers on a NYC street.  Someone said that he had an alcohol problem, thus my comment about rehab.  If he is all you say he is, then the Jets probably should make a deal for him.

 

OTOH, what if Geno proves not to be the real deal?  What if he continues throwing 2-3 picks a game and still can't read opposing blitzes by game 16?  The Jets could wind up missing out on another top QB prospect if they've traded away their 2nd round pick.  I agree with those who say we need to make sure we have our QB first, since the QB is THE most important player on the football team.  If you're convinced Geno is the guy, that's one thing, but if you have any doubts at all, you're taking a real risk that the Jets may go through the next 5 years or so with mediocre QB play and have no shot of getting to the SB, because if they've added all the pieces around the QB, they'll win just enough to make the playoffs or be a perennial wild card, but not enough to get over the hump, and won't have the draft position to get that QB without mortgaging their future, and then if they do that and miss, the team will be assured of being mediocre or worse for the next 10+ years.

[Sperm Edwards]

Gordon would be a no brainer for a second rounder if he's available...little chance Cleveland trades him though unless a contender ponies up a first round pick last second imo.

 

Rumor is he is available for a 2nd and a late pick.  In other words, exactly what we used to draft Mr. Megatron Measurables. 

[Sperm Edwards]

I didn't say anything about his expense.  I couldn't, because I had no idea for certain what his contract was, although several posters here (possibly you) had said his contract value was low, so I wouldn't have.

 

If all the rest that you say is true, then I'd have no problems with a trade. That said, IMO if a player is close to being suspended for a year, then there are some character concerns.  Those just don't get handed out like flyers on a NYC street.  Someone said that he had an alcohol problem, thus my comment about rehab.  If he is all you say he is, then the Jets probably should make a deal for him.

 

OTOH, what if Geno proves not to be the real deal?  What if he continues throwing 2-3 picks a game and still can't read opposing blitzes by game 16?  The Jets could wind up missing out on another top QB prospect if they've traded away their 2nd round pick.  I agree with those who say we need to make sure we have our QB first, since the QB is THE most important player on the football team.  If you're convinced Geno is the guy, that's one thing, but if you have any doubts at all, you're taking a real risk that the Jets may go through the next 5 years or so with mediocre QB play and have no shot of getting to the SB, because if they've added all the pieces around the QB, they'll win just enough to make the playoffs or be a perennial wild card, but not enough to get over the hump, and won't have the draft position to get that QB without mortgaging their future, and then if they do that and miss, the team will be assured of being mediocre or worse for the next 10+ years.

 

"because many of those guys aren't top shelf like Gordon, they shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive."  Forgive me for insinuating you said he was expensive, brother.

 

We need a WR. Everyone knows this. We are using a high pick on a WR unless we fall into that magic slot of poor draft value where we pick. Gordon would merely be that high pick we would have otherwise used in April on a WR.  He is instant-starter, instant-stud.  There is no getting used to the game, learning how to get open at this level, and risk of just being another in a long line of college superstars who are nothing in the NFL.  

 

Why is it ok to use a 1st rounder on a WR and not worry about missing out on a 1st round QB prospect, but it's potentially devastating to lose out on a 2nd round QB prospect?

[Matt39]

Rumor is he is available for a 2nd and a late pick.  In other words, exactly what we used to draft Mr. Megatron Measurables. 

 

The draft infuriates me. The best player on the field during our game Sunday wasnt even drafted. There are politics that go on that we dont know about. Hill did nothing in college other than stand wide open 40 yards down the field. "We must get him!"

[Sperm Edwards]

The draft infuriates me. The best player on the field during our game Sunday wasnt even drafted. There are politics that go on that we dont know about. Hill did nothing in college other than stand wide open 40 yards down the field. "We must get him!"

 

Well he did GET wide open, I'd have to give him credit for that.  He didn't go into invisibility mode and then POOF! he's visible and open.

 

He may yet be a decent receiver eventually.  But when a guy is THAT raw, or has THAT much learning to do (like learning a new position), I'm not a big fan of using high picks on those types.  High picks I can tolerate a learning curve if he's a QB and isn't ruining an otherwise legit-shot season.  So I'm ok with Smith's turnovers this year.  Next year I'll want him dropped to 3rd string if he's still doing it.

[JoeKlecko]

"because many of those guys aren't top shelf like Gordon, they shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive."  Forgive me for insinuating you said he was expensive, brother.

 

We need a WR. Everyone knows this. We are using a high pick on a WR unless we fall into that magic slot of poor draft value where we pick. Gordon would merely be that high pick we would have otherwise used in April on a WR.  He is instant-starter, instant-stud.  There is no getting used to the game, learning how to get open at this level, and risk of just being another in a long line of college superstars who are nothing in the NFL.  

 

Why is it ok to use a 1st rounder on a WR and not worry about missing out on a 1st round QB prospect, but it's potentially devastating to lose out on a 2nd round QB prospect?

 

Sorry, my bad.  I wasn't clear.  My comment about not being as expensive as Gordon was meant two ways: one, over the long haul, because Gordon's 2nd contract would be expensive whereas those players wouldn't be as expensive then; and two, if Gordon did wind up getting suspended for a year, in a sense, he would be more expensive than the others, because they'd be paying him and he wouldn't be giving them anything on the field.

 

If everything else you've said about Gordon is true, then this is true as well.  I have to take your word for it.

 

I didn't say it would be ok to use a 1st round pick on a WR and to skip an excellent QB prospect if he's there.  That said, I'm not sure if Idzik would take a QB in the 1st round unless Bridgewater somehow fell to the Jets, or they had whichever QB fell to them rated as head and shoulders above Geno.  For that matter, I'm not even sure that Idzik takes a WR in the first round or at all.  Yes, we ALL know that the Jets need a WR, and surely he will take one high, but we just don't know what he'll do.  There were many times with Tanny that I thought "Surely he'll address the OLB position (or insert WR or S) in the draft this year and he didn't.  While I have a lot more confidence and trust in Idzik, I just haven't seen enough of his drafting to have any certainty of what he'll do.  He could go strictly BAP and ignore needs, and the highest rated player on their board at the Jets pick could be a RT, an OG, a TE, or any position on the DL.  Would he then ignore that BAP and take a slightly lower-rated player at WR?  Would he trade down?  I just don't know.

[Il Mostro]

Irrespective of Gordon's drug(s) of choice, he is reportedly at Stage 3 of the NFL's substance abuse program, which calls for a mandatory 1 year suspension on his next dirty pee sample.  If he does not play, the Jets have spent assets in acquiring him but not getting value in return.  That is expensive, no matter how reasonable his salary is.

[Matt39]

Well he did GET wide open, I'd have to give him credit for that.  He didn't go into invisibility mode and then POOF! he's visible and open.

 

He may yet be a decent receiver eventually.  But when a guy is THAT raw, or has THAT much learning to do (like learning a new position), I'm not a big fan of using high picks on those types.  High picks I can tolerate a learning curve if he's a QB and isn't ruining an otherwise legit-shot season.  So I'm ok with Smith's turnovers this year.  Next year I'll want him dropped to 3rd string if he's still doing it.

 

He got wide open in a option offense. He wasnt beating press coverage down the field. He was running by guys on go routes where the corner was frozen thinking run.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He got wide open in a option offense. He wasnt beating press coverage down the field. He was running by guys on go routes where the corner was frozen thinking run.

 

We all knew Hill was going to be raw and the idea that he was going to be our #1 WR right out of the gate is only the delusions of grandeur of our fan-base. You can't blame it all on our scouting for taking a guy from a spread offense, because the same knocks were on guys like Dez, Crabtree et al. Now, obviously those guys had video game numbers, but the same knocks of not beating press-man and running full route-trees were on them too.  They were first rounders for a reason though and Hill was a second for a reason. He's shown development in almost every aspect of his game, is drawing doubles due to his speed and is still on pace to more than double last years yardage, while have about 5 yards more per reception.  He's still dirt cheap and under contract for two more years, there's no reason to think that with further development he won't be pushing 1000 yards next year or the year after, which would be a very solid #2 receiver. His biggest problem is we don't have a #1 and people are crucifying him for not being that.

[Matt39]

We all knew Hill was going to be raw and the idea that he was going to be our #1 WR right out of the gate is only the delusions of grandeur of our fan-base. You can't blame it all on our scouting for taking a guy from a spread offense, because the same knocks were on guys like Dez, Crabtree et al. Now, obviously those guys had video game numbers, but the same knocks of not beating press-man and running full route-trees were on them too.  They were first rounders for a reason though and Hill was a second for a reason. He's shown development in almost every aspect of his game, is drawing doubles due to his speed and is still on pace to more than double last years yardage, while have about 5 yards more per reception.  He's still dirt cheap and under contract for two more years, there's no reason to think that with further development he won't be pushing 1000 yards next year or the year after, which would be a very solid #2 receiver. His biggest problem is we don't have a #1 and people are crucifying him for not being that.

 

Hill shouldnt have been a second round pick though- he got drafted there because of his combine. Dez and Crabtree were the centerpieces of their college teams offense. JAG David Nelson has passed him. Hill drawing all of these doubles you're talking about isnt exactly helping the offense/passing game.

 

I'm not asking for Hill to be the #1. I want him to be a guy we can utilize on intermediate to deeper throws. Right now the only way we're getting him the ball is on short drag routes.

[The Crusher]

No, because our BPA will be a Dlineman or a CB and we cannot pick someone who is not our BPA on our draft board, because we cannot afford to miss out on The next Dee.

 

 

You sound like a scorned lover. 

[The Crusher]

I will be shocked if Idzik makes a move today- everything he has done so far would suggest no way-

 

 

You sound like a generous lover.

[The Crusher]

**** that, if we lose as many games as I think we will the rest of the way, we'll be a top 12 pick. I want us grabbing a QB 100x over. Keeping picking them until you get THE ONE.

 

You sound like a tired lover.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Hill shouldnt have been a second round pick though- he got drafted there because of his combine. Dez and Crabtree were the centerpieces of their college teams offense. JAG David Nelson has passed him. Hill drawing all of these doubles you're talking about isnt exactly helping the offense/passing game.

 

I'm not asking for Hill to be the #1. I want him to be a guy we can utilize on intermediate to deeper throws. Right now the only way we're get him the ball is on short drag routes.

 

Respectfully have to disagree. His combine certainly helped, but that's not just because of his world-class measurables, he caught everything thrown at him and showed very smooth hands there.  He was 11th pick in the second round and that's exactly where you draft guys like this: prototypical size and speed, he was arguably one of the most explosive WRs in college football when he averaged almost 30 yards per catch and while he only caught 30 balls that year, he had 800+ yards and a half dozen tds. When you watch his clips, you see a kid who can make acrobatic catches, is extremely physical and can take the top off a defense.  Last year you saw all that talent in the first game against buffalo, but then teams started to take notice of him and he was shut down. He started over-thinking and losing focus. I've always said he has very good hands, he's just been caught thinking about his next move which causes him to have a lapse in concentration. He needs a #1 WR to draw coverages and this kid will be putting up ~1000 yards consistently, I firmly believe that. It was my stance last year and the beginning of this that hell put up 700+ this year and be primed for a breakout next year and I stand by that. 

 

You can see that he's more than just catch wide open passes, but that like Dez and Crabtree, he's able to take quick screens and hitches and break them off for 70+, not to mention some nice catches in traffic and a couple impressive one handed grabs. You can definitely see the potential here and it's easy to see why he was a second round pick.

 

 

http://youtu.be/1kQWb4NXvJc

[Matt39]

I don't think Hill has the lateral agility to take screen passes like Demaryius and do much with the football.

Dez attacks the ball better than anyone in the league other than Calvin. I guess we just see things differently. Hill just looks goofy as an athlete.

[JoeKlecko]

I'm not sure I agree with you (yet don't radically disagree either).  He was considered a project and extremely raw.  The second round is NOT where you draft extremely raw projects (see Ducasse).  The third or fourth round is usually where those types go, but there are always teams who will reach for these supremely talented players.

 

In that highlight tape he still let a number of throws get into his body, usually his gut.  I've seen better, more acrobatic catches by him on other you tube videos, but have also seen video of games where he dropped a lot of easy passes that hit him right in the hands.

 

As for his 30 ypc average, while impressive, it's not that difficult when you're that much faster than anyone around you.  He obviously got by in college on supreme physical talent, athleticism and speed.  That alone doesn't cut it in the NFL, where all the players are bigger, more athletic and faster.

 

I understand thinking too much and even some focus issues, but he has way too many of those for someone with supposedly such good hands.  I hope you're right and that he develops fully, but right now it's hard for me to see him as much more than a better version of David Clowney.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Hill shouldnt have been a second round pick though- he got drafted there because of his combine. Dez and Crabtree were the centerpieces of their college teams offense. JAG David Nelson has passed him. Hill drawing all of these doubles you're talking about isnt exactly helping the offense/passing game.

 

I'm not asking for Hill to be the #1. I want him to be a guy we can utilize on intermediate to deeper throws. Right now the only way we're getting him the ball is on short drag routes.

 

That's because after the first handful of games teams started rolling coverage over the top, whether you see it or not.  In the first 3 weeks he had 4 plays of over 30 yards, two plays of over 50: that game against NWE he had 108 yards on 3 catches and a td. Teams started to take more notice of him and those big chunk plays weren't coming as frequently, but the separation certainly was still there. That's not even counting the Pittsburgh game where he had 3 steps on Taylor and Polamalu and Geno overthrew him, which I didn't think was even possible to do.  The kids good man, he's gonna prove it to all of us soon.

 

Look at these plays against Pitt: in one play he makes a hell of a grab for a big clutch first down. The next, he shows the ability to beat press-man, from one of the best and absolutely toast Pitt's secondary (not exactly running with a piano on his back.)

 

 

 

 

 

And then this is just for fun as it shows he can make the acrobatic catch.