Is Rex a defensive mastermind...like he'd have you believe?

[SenorGato]

If you're going to bag on what I said, at least quote me so I know that's you're being ridiculous. And Walls and Lankster aren't that much older than Milliner. Play the players that deserve to play based on play and not on draft position.

 

Lankster's playing time has been going up as the season went on. Just the other week he got more snaps than he has all season...Which is probably just going to be interpreted as an opportunity to whine about how the 27 year old former 2009 7th round pick didn't play more throughout the whole season...Lankster is 6-7 years older than Milliner! That's 2 average NFL career lengths! Even Walls is 4 years older...

 

I would say my main issue on D is that Cromartie fell off a cliff this year. No clue what happened, but it's a bigger deal than anything else going on in the secondary.

 

Oh, and Antonio Allen should play more. He's the one who got hurt by the Reed pickup. Even then it's tough to gauge what kind of upside he has, and there's still 3 more games to play (Reed's been here for all of 2, and hasn't even played terribly). 

[pedro55]

 I think Rex is a good DC,  not a good HC.   I also think he's terrible for the most part at evaluating talent.   His strength seems to be turning nobodies into guys who can play on defense. Or at least play better than they should.     But I compare Rex's Jets era with that of Gruden in Tampa.  The only difference is Tampa won a super bowl and the Jets made it to 2 AFC Championship games.   If you look at the Bucs under Gruden, they got worse and worse and worse until he was fired.  He took over Tony Dungy's team, found a way to win a super bowl with that team, and then never had a clue how to replace and develop talent.     Rex took over Mangini's squad, took them to 2 AFC Championship games,  and then the team just got worse and worse.     

 

   Maybe it should be all on the GM, but sometimes it's a partnership.  The GM & HC need to be on the same page.  You can't have one overpowering the other.  There are HC who have huge egos and make GMs cower.  There are GMs who have more power and they have a revolving door of HC.   What the Jets need is Idzik & Rex to be on the same page about the team and where it's going.  Or Idzik and some new HC.   Otherwise you're going to have a coach who hates the picks, a GM who hates the coach, and a team who never really gets any better.

 

  Rex will find a way to coach up the defense at times, but sometimes his guys go back to being what they are, not that talented and you get blowout losses.  We've seen it for years now.  It's one thing to have it happen now and again, have a bad game.  But the Jets under Rex have gotten blown out a lot over the years.   For every 10-9 game, there are those games like the Bills this year or the Patriots during the regular season years ago.  

 

 I think one of Rex's biggest talents is also his weakness.  He really isn't that great of a HC , but can get his team to believe they are great.  And he really relies on underdog players and being the underdog.  It works now and again, aka why he's hovering around being a .500 coach, but there are times that "we are great" becomes arrogance and stupid and they wind up getting blown out.     If he could add talented players on both side of the ball and still have that attitude, it would be great.  But after 5 seasons, the defense is worse, the offense is worse, and the talent all around this team is horrible.   

 

 It really is Rex's ideal kind of team.   There are no superstars on this team. You have some up and comers, a bunch of scrubs and practice squad players and so on.  They should always be the underdog.  And Rex seems to love this challenge.   But in the long run this challenge means you need to luck into the playoffs or wind up 8-8 and hope next year you get one more win to sneak into the playoffs.  

[SenorGato]

Maybe it should be all on the GM, but sometimes it's a partnership.  

 

 

Rex is the GM, so there is no partnership. It's just like when Schotty was the QB. These coaches just don't do their jobs. 

[pedro55]

Rex is the GM, so there is no partnership. It's just like when Schotty was the QB. These coaches just don't do their jobs. 

 

  I really hope this isn't the case.   Saying that about Rex & Tanny, makes sense.  Tanny wasn't a GM, he just was put into that role because Woody sucks as an owner.    But if Rex is the one making all the moves while Idzik is just cutting cap space, it doesn't bode well for the future.   Why would a semi lame duck coach have more control than a new GM?    I really dont' want that to be the case, otherwise Idzik becomes just another Tanny.

[T0mShane]

I really hope this isn't the case. Saying that about Rex & Tanny, makes sense. Tanny wasn't a GM, he just was put into that role because Woody sucks as an owner. But if Rex is the one making all the moves while Idzik is just cutting cap space, it doesn't bode well for the future. Why would a semi lame duck coach have more control than a new GM? I really dont' want that to be the case, otherwise Idzik becomes just another Tanny.

It's Gato talking out of his ass. If the young players were good and guys like Coples and Hill and Ducasse and Wilson and Allen were killing it, Rex fans like Gato would be talking about the amazing job Rex has done building this team. But because there are only three or four young players who contribute, they'd prefer to blame someone else entirely.

[SenorGato]

It's Gato talking out of his ass. If the young players were good and guys like Coples and Hill and Ducasse and Wilson and Allen were killing it, Rex fans like Gato would be talking about the amazing job Rex has done building this team. But because there are only three or four young players who contribute, they'd prefer to blame someone else entirely.

 

Yeah, half those players you listed have played well. Coples has been killing it lately, Allen has made his fair share of plays, Hill opened strong before falling off...Vlad and Wilson are goners. I've never talked anything about what an amazing job Rex has done building this team because I choose to acknowledge that HC and GM are actually two wholly different jobs. No Jets fan makes any claim that this is a well built team. 

[T0mShane]

Yeah, half those players you listed have played well. Coples has been killing it lately, Allen has made his fair share of plays, Hill opened strong before falling off..

It's just unfortunate that you don't have a Hall of Fame vote.

[SenorGato]

It's just unfortunate that you don't have a Hall of Fame vote.

Oh good one. Id probably be the one guy who doesn't vote in Bevell, amirite?!?!!?!?

[T0mShane]

Oh good one. Id probably be the one guy who doesn't vote in Bevell, amirite?!?!!?!?

Bevell suuuuuuuuucks until he's a Jet brah.

[SenorGato]

Bevell suuuuuuuuucks until he's a Jet brah.

Once we get him his Peterson/Lynch he will pound and ground the opponent into dust!

[T0mShane]

Once we get him his Peterson/Lynch he will pound and ground the opponent into dust!

Impossible berrrrrrrr. Marshawn Lynch is the kind of player teams keep forevereeeer

[jack48]

But our secondary is detritus.

[aec4]

Geno Smith isn't the guy letting Jake Locker and Andy Dalton look like Hall of Famers.

He's the guy giving them excellent field position and going 3/out giving the D no rest

[j4jets]

Parcell's used to say defensive rankings meant nothing. In his view the only statistic that mattered was how many points your defense gave up. I agree.

So I figured I'd take a look at how the Jets have fared under Rex. His first year we led the league in fewest points allowed. Since then the trend has been terrible. Frankly, New England and Miami have fared much better than we have for the past few years.

We've also invested a ton of high draft picks on that side of the ball. Wilk, Wilson, Coples, milliner, Sheldon...and still the trend stinks.

I watch this defense. They're good at times. But the last few years have been bad by any measurement.

I understand the offense has stunk. But are we truly a great defensive squad.

I think Rex gets too much credit here.

Yards allowed is a much better indicator of the D. Why? Cuz if u have pick 6s or ints near ur own goal line, the opponents are already in scoring range. That's been this Ds issue the last 3 years. That's why yards allowed is a much better statistic. Patriots offense is superior. That's why their D doesn't get a short field to defend. ID like to know the trend on yards allowed and then evaluate the D while considering injuries.

[Smashmouth]

Funny I remember the Defense getting sh!t on in both AFCCG's . In the Pitt game the Defense turned it on in the second half while the offense came back only to give up the game ending third and long. A third down play most Great defenses make.

 

So if you want to point out 2 big victories I can point out 2 sh!t shows if that's the direction you want to go.

 

Regardless Rex is a good defensive coach and that's about it. His head coaching ability leaves much to be desired and his handling of the entire team and his large input in the organization is not very good at all.

[Jettington]

I don't like looking at points allowed as a stat because the way it's counted is flawed. a pick 6, a fumble recovery for a td, a punt return td, a kick off return td, and a safety for that matter all count as points allowed be a defense. If you want to know the real points allowed stat, you need to go through each game and subtract the points from these scores where the defense wasn't on the field. It makes no sense that the offense gets credit for a defensive score or a special teams score.

[T0mShane]

I don't like looking at points allowed as a stat because the way it's counted is flawed. a pick 6, a fumble recovery for a td, a punt return td, a kick off return td, and a safety for that matter all count as points allowed be a defense. If you want to know the real points allowed stat, you need to go through each game and subtract the points from these scores where the defense wasn't on the field. It makes no sense that the offense gets credit for a defensive score or a special teams score.

Just checked. The Jets have given up a total of 435 points on interception and fumble returns this season.

[pedro55]

I don't like looking at points allowed as a stat because the way it's counted is flawed. a pick 6, a fumble recovery for a td, a punt return td, a kick off return td, and a safety for that matter all count as points allowed be a defense. If you want to know the real points allowed stat, you need to go through each game and subtract the points from these scores where the defense wasn't on the field. It makes no sense that the offense gets credit for a defensive score or a special teams score.

 

  It's also about context.  A team like the Panthers don't throw 50 times in a game.  And because the jets offense sucks,  the opponents call a different game plan.  Look at that non FG today.  The Jets defense made a nice play, but if the Jets offense garnered any respect, they kick that FG and thats 3 more points the team gave up.   Or the team tries to actually make first downs or TDs instead of just running the clock.     

 

 When teams play the Broncos and so on, they know they need to score 30-40 points.  They take more chances. Sometimes defenses make more plays.  Other times defenses get burned and exposed.   When they play the jets,  a team can win 16-6 and not worry about taking as many chances.   Most of the time people don't look at the context of a game, but when you play a team like the Jets, your offense doesn't need to be any good.   And most teams call those kinds of games for that kind of opponent.   When you play teams like the Broncos, you have to call a different game plan.

 

  The jets defense has made terrible QBs look like HOFers.  THey let a backup RB who was a FB on the Raiders rush for over 120 yards.  Does that matter?  No, but in the grand scheme of things, the jets defense hasn't exactly been that good this year.   

[Bugg]

Between injuries, roster turnover, and the pass-friendly rules, defense is a high-variance proposition at this point. So the answer to your question is yes, but with the caveat that his value-added over a decent DC isn't all that much.

In the time Wrecks has been head coach the NFL generally and the rules specifically have each year devalued his strengths. What he thinks is most important in this industry is now in fact less and less important each year. You have to throw effectively, and the Jets don't. And crowing about your ranking against the run  was a big deal, now not so much. 

[Bugg]

  It's also about context.  A team like the Panthers don't throw 50 times in a game.  And because the jets offense sucks,  the opponents call a different game plan.  Look at that non FG today.  The Jets defense made a nice play, but if the Jets offense garnered any respect, they kick that FG and thats 3 more points the team gave up.   Or the team tries to actually make first downs or TDs instead of just running the clock.     

 

 When teams play the Broncos and so on, they know they need to score 30-40 points.  They take more chances. Sometimes defenses make more plays.  Other times defenses get burned and exposed.   When they play the jets,  a team can win 16-6 and not worry about taking as many chances.   Most of the time people don't look at the context of a game, but when you play a team like the Jets, your offense doesn't need to be any good.   And most teams call those kinds of games for that kind of opponent.   When you play teams like the Broncos, you have to call a different game plan.

 

  The jets defense has made terrible QBs look like HOFers.  THey let a backup RB who was a FB on the Raiders rush for over 120 yards.  Does that matter?  No, but in the grand scheme of things, the jets defense hasn't exactly been that good this year.   

Rivera blown off the FG was total and complete disrespect for the Jets' offense. Basically your offense is so terrible we don't think making it a surefire 3 score lead much matter because you cannot come back. 

[Jacked4JetsFB]

A defensive mastermind can take mediocre talent and make it very good. They can take good talent and make it elite.

 

Rex has done neither. He has taken very good talent on D and made it a very good D. I don't see one year where he had the D playing at a higher level than it's talent level.

 

Rex is a good DC, not a great one, and a flat out lousy HC.

[#27TheDominator]

Let me get this straight:  A team needs 30-40 points to beat the Broncos so they will settle for 3, but they needed 7 against the Jets?  

 

Going for it had very little to do with the Jets and a great deal to do with the Panthers.  Rivera's general philosophy is to go for it on 4th quite often and the Panthers had to be smarting from only getting 3 so many times against the Saints and Jets.  At that point that had 3 FGs and their only TD was the 70 yard screen pass.  That team supposedly prides themselves on red zone efficiency and it was a chance to make a statement.  They didn't make it.  

 

You don't think having 14 points basically given up by the offense and special teams can wear on a D? 

[MexiRoll6]

Rex Ryan sucks. He isn't even the best DC in his family. His biggest problem is his ego. He thinks he is a good coach and that is as far as his thought process goes. He probably NEVER second guesses himself over mistakes, just shrugs them off and goes on thinking how great he is. He went so far as to SAY IT in a magazine article where he called himself, "a great coach." I never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life. You would NEVER hear any other coach say a thing like that about himself, especially a TRULY great coach. Know why? Because OTHERS say it of them, not them of themselves. Rex was a mistake from day one when his ego forced him to make an enemy of BB for no other reason than to simply tweak him. WTF was THAT about. Rex consistently has put a target on his teams' back and did so again Sunday by backing Holmes idiotic statement about the Carolina secondary. I'll be not only glad but relieved when it's over for him.

[Matt39]

A defensive mastermind can take mediocre talent and make it very good. They can take good talent and make it elite.

 

Rex has done neither. He has taken very good talent on D and made it a very good D. I don't see one year where he had the D playing at a higher level than it's talent level.

 

Rex is a good DC, not a great one, and a flat out lousy HC.

 

Rex did just that in 2009. It's arguable this defense is more talented than the 2009 version. He just cant make up for not having a Revs type corner(two awful corners actually) and his blitz schemes have become stale. Being able to take away a side of the field was a huge part of Rex's early success here.

[#27TheDominator]

Rex Ryan sucks. He isn't even the best DC in his family. His biggest problem is his ego. He thinks he is a good coach and that is as far as his thought process goes. He probably NEVER second guesses himself over mistakes, just shrugs them off and goes on thinking how great he is. He went so far as to SAY IT in a magazine article where he called himself, "a great coach." I never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life. You would NEVER hear any other coach say a thing like that about himself, especially a TRULY great coach. Know why? Because OTHERS say it of them, not them of themselves. Rex was a mistake from day one when his ego forced him to make an enemy of BB for no other reason than to simply tweak him. WTF was THAT about. Rex consistently has put a target on his teams' back and did so again Sunday by backing Holmes idiotic statement about the Carolina secondary. I'll be not only glad but relieved when it's over for him.

 

I ignore most of the bullsh*t that you spout, but you repeatedly say that Rob Ryan is a better DC than Rex.  This is flat out false and nobody in their right mind believes it, including Rob. 

[bitonti]

all these posts bashing Rex and the D... they stopped the Panthers 4th and 2. That was a huge play in the game. The D, again, was the best part of the team by far. Specials and offense were worse than the D. People talk about firing Rex, he and the D are the only good part of this team right now.  its cutting off your nose to spite your face

[Jacked4JetsFB]

all these posts bashing Rex and the D... they stopped the Panthers 4th and 2. That was a huge play in the game. The D, again, was the best part of the team by far. Specials and offense were worse than the D. People talk about firing Rex, he and the D are the only good part of this team right now.  its cutting off your nose to spite your face

 

I have not heard too many bashing the D.

 

The bashing has been that Rex is the HC, and not only responsible for the D. So the special teams and the horrid offense, contrary to Rex lovers belief actually DOES fall under his jurisdiction as the HC.

 

There is a lot of talent on that D. You and others act like no other coach could get production out of this defense, that is a ludicrous assertion to say the least.

[Matt39]

Jets are also dead last in the NFL in turnovers forced. 10 all season, that's horrible.