Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Would love to see the Jets become a ball control offense similar to the one we had in the Late 90's under Parcells. Or like the Cowboys of the early 90's. Decker is tough and has no problems going over the middle and taking a hit. Kerley does that and so does Nelson. If we get a guy like Evans in the draft we will have the makings of a pretty damn good receiving Corp. Not explosive but tough .... Hill would be our Burner and is also an above average run blocker. We could use him the same way Parcells/Weiss used Dedric Ward. I think it would be a very well rounded group to run a ball control offense, move the chains and eat up clock.. Ball control offenses also help the defense in a big way giving them the rest they need while beating down the opposing Defense. I think this is the type of team Idzik is trying to build. I do not think the Jets will target any small WR's for this reason alone. What I would like to see us target is some blocking TE's like we had in 09 and 10 and just establish a beast mode running game Ivory when healthy is probably the most punishing runner in the NFL and adding Jones Drew to that backfield to be part of a committee would be huge and also prolong his career with less carries. Ivory, Jones Drew, and Powell would be a formidable group and that in place with the new receivers would totally transform our once talentless offense. Of course Jones Drew may never happen but that does not mean we can't target a back like him in the draft. It really depends on what Jones Drew thinks he has left and whether or not he wants to prolong his career and be a part of a plan rather than being a workhorse and lasting a much shorter period of time. I would also like to see the Jets target some solid run blocking Guards that have the mean streak When it comes to QB I think we should target Matt Schabb AND draft one who is smart and capable of running this type of offense. Don't want a gun slinger but would like one who can extend plays and get out of the pocket when in trouble. I know Manziel is probably a pipe dream but I think he has the brains and leadership ability to pull this off. yes hes VERY different than Schabb but when things break down as they so often do in the NFL that's when a guy like Manziel can shine. That's the type of offense I would like .... What type of offense would you like to see here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Until the Oline is fixed and the QB can pull 8 players out of the box it's a pipe dream. Johnny boy isn't making it in the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Until the Oline is fixed and the QB can pull 8 players out of the box it's a pipe dream. Johnny boy isn't making it in the nfl. Mick we didn't have a QB in 09 and we had the best running game in the NFL adding a few on the OL can make it happen. Forget Manziel for now......if the Jets get Evans and sign Schabb we can easily pull this off then draft a QB next year to groom under Schabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Would love to see the Jets become a ball control offense similar to the one we had in the Late 90's under Parcells. Or like the Cowboys of the early 90's. Decker is tough and has no problems going over the middle and taking a hit. Kerley does that and so does Nelson. If we get a guy like Evans in the draft we will have the makings of a pretty damn good receiving Corp. Not explosive but tough .... Hill would be our Burner and is also an above average run blocker. We could use him the same way Parcells/Weiss used Dedric Ward. I think it would be a very well rounded group to run a ball control offense, move the chains and eat up clock.. Ball control offenses also help the defense in a big way giving them the rest they need while beating down the opposing Defense. I think this is the type of team Idzik is trying to build. I do not think the Jets will target any small WR's for this reason alone. What I would like to see us target is some blocking TE's like we had in 09 and 10 and just establish a beast mode running game Ivory when healthy is probably the most punishing runner in the NFL and adding Jones Drew to that backfield to be part of a committee would be huge and also prolong his career with less carries. Ivory, Jones Drew, and Powell would be a formidable group and that in place with the new receivers would totally transform our once talentless offense. Of course Jones Drew may never happen but that does not mean we can't target a back like him in the draft. It really depends on what Jones Drew thinks he has left and whether or not he wants to prolong his career and be a part of a plan rather than being a workhorse and lasting a much shorter period of time. I would also like to see the Jets target some solid run blocking Guards that have the mean streak When it comes to QB I think we should target Matt Schabb AND draft one who is smart and capable of running this type of offense. Don't want a gun slinger but would like one who can extend plays and get out of the pocket when in trouble. I know Manziel is probably a pipe dream but I think he has the brains and leadership ability to pull this off. yes hes VERY different than Schabb but when things break down as they so often do in the NFL that's when a guy like Manziel can shine. That's the type of offense I would like .... What type of offense would you like to see here ? Worked in the 90s but the rules have been changed to encourage scoring. Sure, Seattle won the Super Bowl with strong defense, but they were able to score. They have playmakers. We can't try to keep the ball 4 0 minutes a game. It would be nice but it's too hard to win that way. You have to be too perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Worked in the 90s but the rules have been changed to encourage scoring. Sure, Seattle won the Super Bowl with strong defense, but they were able to score. They have playmakers. We can't try to keep the ball 4 0 minutes a game. It would be nice but it's too hard to win that way. You have to be too perfect. aec since when do good ball control offenses not score ? Of course it has to score points, that's a given, but beating down a defense in the process gives us the advantage in the 4th Quarter and will make our defense that much better with some rest. The Pats run a ball control offense and score top 5 in the NFL every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Mick we didn't have a QB in 09 and we had the best running game in the NFL adding a few on the OL can make it happen. Forget Manziel for now......if the Jets get Evans and sign Schabb we can easily pull this off then draft a QB next year to groom under Schabb I agree with you just adding to the Oline would be huge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 aec since when do good ball control offenses not score ? Of course it has to score points, that's a given, but beating down a defense in the process gives us the advantage in the 4th Quarter and will make our defense that much better with some rest. The Pats run a ball control offense and score top 5 in the NFL every year. I like your ideas but you need quick strike capability in today's nfl. It's the way the rules are structured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Smash lives in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Idzik and Rex are both on board with a run-first, ball control attack. I'm sure this year, they will continue to protect Geno (or whoever the QB is, as there are no good ones available), limit his exposure and mistakes. The last four games of last year will be the template for him in the passing game - take what's there, don't try to take anymore. If there's no one open, first option will be to tuck and run, second will be to throw it away. The goal will be to limit turnovers as much as possible, and maximize positive plays. That said, you need big play ability in the NFL. You can't just trudge your way to a championship. One penalty, sack, or other negative play can derail any drive in a strict ball control offense. You need players who can stretch the field. I expect Hill to be on the roster this year, but he can't be trusted to make catches today. With guys like Decker, Nelson, and Cumberland in the fold (and Hill, too, for that matter, who's big and can block), I think they need a breakaway type WR to add to the mix. Someone who's going to free up underneath routes and the running game, and make big plays when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Stump the Schabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Idzik and Rex are both on board with a run-first, ball control attack. I'm sure this year, they will continue to protect Geno (or whoever the QB is, as there are no good ones available), limit his exposure and mistakes. The last four games of last year will be the template for him in the passing game - take what's there, don't try to take anymore. If there's no one open, first option will be to tuck and run, second will be to throw it away. The goal will be to limit turnovers as much as possible, and maximize positive plays. That said, you need big play ability in the NFL. You can't just trudge your way to a championship. One penalty, sack, or other negative play can derail any drive in a strict ball control offense. You need players who can stretch the field. I expect Hill to be on the roster this year, but he can't be trusted to make catches today. With guys like Decker, Nelson, and Cumberland in the fold (and Hill, too, for that matter, who's big and can block), I think they need a breakaway type WR to add to the mix. Someone who's going to free up underneath routes and the running game, and make big plays when needed. I agree with 90% of this. Thing is Hill can get upfield. He has been a bust so far, but showed some real improvement last year till he was hurt. The major flaw is you need a dominating OL. This this has grown into a weakness. Plus in today's NFL, you need shut down CB's. Milliner at this point is a huge ? The other side is even bigger. Right now there is no one there. Could change this week end, but I'm not sure they will spend 10million on a CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCJETSFAN Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Can we stop trying to go back to the 90s! I'm not saying you have to have a wide open attack like the saints or Denver but you need to throw the ball. Downfield and be able to get large chunks of yardage . Seattle can run but also can get 25 yards when needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Manziel is not going to excel in the NFL. He's going to be pushed around and broken. He's also note even a Russel Wilson type, he won't make smart decisions, he'll scramble and throw off his back foot and get picked off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Idzik and Rex are both on board with a run-first, ball control attack. I'm sure this year, they will continue to protect Geno (or whoever the QB is, as there are no good ones available), limit his exposure and mistakes. The last four games of last year will be the template for him in the passing game - take what's there, don't try to take anymore. If there's no one open, first option will be to tuck and run, second will be to throw it away. The goal will be to limit turnovers as much as possible, and maximize positive plays. That said, you need big play ability in the NFL. You can't just trudge your way to a championship. One penalty, sack, or other negative play can derail any drive in a strict ball control offense. You need players who can stretch the field. I expect Hill to be on the roster this year, but he can't be trusted to make catches today. With guys like Decker, Nelson, and Cumberland in the fold (and Hill, too, for that matter, who's big and can block), I think they need a breakaway type WR to add to the mix. Someone who's going to free up underneath routes and the running game, and make big plays when needed. Agree for the most part. I think we still need another RB im a fan of Chris Johnson who I firmly believe could help this team win some games. The breakway WR could be Emanuel Sanders still a free agent or Sammy Watkins but they are going to have to trade up to get him. Idzik is far from done improving this roster a lot of the big name free agents are gone but there still players out there who can improve this team. Don't rule out a trade either this is the Jets anything can happen and usually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I agree with 90% of this. Thing is Hill can get upfield. He has been a bust so far, but showed some real improvement last year till he was hurt. The major flaw is you need a dominating OL. This this has grown into a weekness. Plus in today's NFL, you need shut down CB's. Milliner at this point is a huge ? The other side is even bigger. Right now there is no one there. Could change this week end, but I'm not sure they will spend 10million on a CB This. We had opportunity to address this in FA with Tier 1 talent.... F.O. chose not to. Hopefully, Oboushi and Campbell step up this year. Hope we get DRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Seattle won a SB with a great D and an offense that would hardly be considered explosive. I would think the Jets could too. It would've been nice to have gotten one of the top CBs but I'll trust Idzik/Rex on their decisions. As for O, we absolutely need to upgrade. We're not even close to Seattle's level of O (though the Decker signing was a step in the right direction). We definitely need more talented WR options. As for QB, I think Idzik is a believer in Geno so I think that's our guy for next year. If that's the case, at least lets get him more weapons (including a jitterbug RB) and a better OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Smash lives in Texas. originally from Brooklyn Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 originally from Brooklyn Shane I suspect he's referring to your Schaub, Manzeil, and Evans references. They didn't come from Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Can we stop trying to go back to the 90s! I'm not saying you have to have a wide open attack like the saints or Denver but you need to throw the ball. Downfield and be able to get large chunks of yardage . Seattle can run but also can get 25 yards when needed Just because a ball control offense is being suggested does NOT mean we cant throw down field ...you guys are taking this too literally. Remember an offense that controls the ball also keeps the defense off the field and rested something our defense did very well with in 09. You play ball control and wait for an opening downfield to strike deep. or you try to strike deep early to open things up underneath. The you smash the ball down their throats Also there are some quick strike offenses in the NFL but the Broncos and Saints and Patriots are not quick strike they are ball control offenses first that wait for opportunities to hit the big play. All three of those offenses use the short passing game and let the talent make the plays BUT each QB is capable of making the big play as well and that's what we are missing. if you look back over the years you will see that ball control offenses along with a top Defense is what wins SB's not the other way around. The only team that was truly a big play quick strike offense that has won a SB in the last 16 years were the St. Louis Rams and they barely won that SB. great defenses almost always shut down the big play quick strike offenses in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 I suspect he's referring to your Schaub, Manzeil, and Evans references. They didn't come from Brooklyn. yeah that went right over my head lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 we really need a screen back I don't see how they can rely on goodson to be a free man let alone healthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Agree for the most part. I think we still need another RB im a fan of Chris Johnson who I firmly believe could help this team win some games. The breakway WR could be Emanuel Sanders still a free agent or Sammy Watkins but they are going to have to trade up to get him. Idzik is far from done improving this roster a lot of the big name free agents are gone but there still players out there who can improve this team. Don't rule out a trade either this is the Jets anything can happen and usually does. Not a big fan of 2nd contract RB's. For the most part their best days are behind them. Draft has a lot of RB's in rounds 3-5 that might fill the bill as a 3rd down back. Take way to much to move up and get a Watkins. Can't mortgage entire draft for a WR. Hope Hill can fill the role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Agree for the most part. I think we still need another RB im a fan of Chris Johnson who I firmly believe could help this team win some games. The breakway WR could be Emanuel Sanders still a free agent or Sammy Watkins but they are going to have to trade up to get him. Idzik is far from done improving this roster a lot of the big name free agents are gone but there still players out there who can improve this team. Don't rule out a trade either this is the Jets anything can happen and usually does. Chris Johnson is done. he was done as soon as he got his cash. Could a change of scenery help him ? Sure. But I think a guy like Tate or Jones Drew or even Moreno would be a better fit in our style of offense unless they just let Morhinwig sling it all over the damn field which I hope they do not do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 we really need a screen back I don't see how they can rely on goodson to be a free man let alone healthy Sproles would have been nice because it seems hes still lightning fast and can give you 70 catches out of the backfield. Anyone in the draft with those type of skills we can target would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Chris Johnson is done. he was done as soon as he got his cash. Could a change of scenery help him ? Sure. But I think a guy like Tate or Jones Drew or even Moreno would be a better fit in our style of offense unless they just let Morhinwig sling it all over the damn field which I hope they do not do. Chris Johnson is 10x better than Bilal Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Sproles would have been nice because it seems hes still lightning fast and can give you 70 catches out of the backfield. Anyone in the draft with those type of skills we can target would be nice. yeah, morningwood would have 12 plays a game for him. I think the guy in the draft is stanky or stuckey or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 yeah, morningwood would have 12 plays a game for him. I think the guy in the draft is stanky or stuckey or something Still some good backs in FA that no one seems to be paying attention to that may come on the cheap. I don't think any of them are beat down and we could certainly use just about any of them in a RB by committee situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieny Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Just because a ball control offense is being suggested does NOT mean we cant throw down field ...you guys are taking this too literally. Remember an offense that controls the ball also keeps the defense off the field and rested something our defense did very well with in 09. You play ball control and wait for an opening downfield to strike deep. or you try to strike deep early to open things up underneath. The you smash the ball down their throats Also there are some quick strike offenses in the NFL but the Broncos and Saints and Patriots are not quick strike they are ball control offenses first that wait for opportunities to hit the big play. All three of those offenses use the short passing game and let the talent make the plays BUT each QB is capable of making the big play as well and that's what we are missing. if you look back over the years you will see that ball control offenses along with a top Defense is what wins SB's not the other way around. The only team that was truly a big play quick strike offense that has won a SB in the last 16 years were the St. Louis Rams and they barely won that SB. great defenses almost always shut down the big play quick strike offenses in the playoffs. You need a balanced attack. Rex adhered to a run smash type offense. He then changed his tune. Enter Mornhinwig. A WC aficionado hired to 'open' things up. Problem is, you don't have a QB to run his offense. Trying to 'limit' Eugene's mistakes is a BIG mistake. It sorely stifles your ability to have a balanced attack. But they have no choice. You have to employ a run first offense if Eugene is your QB. He cant read defenses and is inaccurate, and the idea that he can compensate his lack of QB skills by using his legs, will ultimately backfire. There have been only a few qb's who were able to get away with scrambling around and not pay a big price. Even RG III, as quick as he is, got clocked. Just a matter of time before same happens to Eugene if he keeps running around like a chicken with out a head. Until the Jets get themselves a QB that can throw downfield, they will have to run an anti-offense. There are plenty of other options besides Eugene. The draft is loaded with quality qb's that can easily usurp Eugene as the starter. That's why drafting him with the 2nd pick was ill advised. So many quality qb's in this year's drat. Idzik would have been better served waiting till this years draft to grab a qb. Hopefully, he learns from Tanny's mistake with Sanchez and finds a another qb quick rather than 'wait' for Eugene to 'mature'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hasnt this been Rex's offense philosophy since day 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieny Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hasnt this been Rex's offense philosophy since day 1? Actually its been his philosophy since he was in the womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I agree with 90% of this. Thing is Hill can get upfield. He has been a bust so far, but showed some real improvement last year till he was hurt. The major flaw is you need a dominating OL. This this has grown into a weakness. Plus in today's NFL, you need shut down CB's. Milliner at this point is a huge ? The other side is even bigger. Right now there is no one there. Could change this week end, but I'm not sure they will spend 10million on a CB Hill won't make it out of preseason. Can't catch, can't adjust routes and is basically Johnny 'Lam' Jones which is to say fast and inadequate for the NFL game. Doesn't matter how open you are if you simply can't catch the ball and that is Hill in a nutshell. Odell Beckham, Jr. in first round or Eric Ebron (doubt he lasts until 18). If Jets continue to ignore secondary the defense isn't going to be worth crap, so either sign another WR so we can draft a DB since there doesn't appear to be any more DB's worthwhile in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hill won't make it out of preseason. Can't catch, can't adjust routes and is basically Johnny 'Lam' Jones which is to say fast and inadequate for the NFL game. Doesn't matter how open you are if you simply can't catch the ball and that is Hill in a nutshell. Odell Beckham, Jr. in first round or Eric Ebron (doubt he lasts until 18). If Jets continue to ignore secondary the defense isn't going to be worth crap, so either sign another WR so we can draft a DB since there doesn't appear to be any more DB's worthwhile in FA. Hill dropped one ball last year. His real problem is getting off the LOS clean. That can be learned. Another WR in the draft is a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieny Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hill dropped one ball last year. His real problem is getting off the LOS clean. That can be learned. Another WR in the draft is a good idea yea but only two were thrown his way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hasnt this been Rex's offense philosophy since day 1? I was looking for your own opinion on what you might do .... And yes to some extent it has been Rex's philosophy but IMO Rex has to be a little more consistent with what he wants on offense. Only problem is Rex probably finds it hard to be consistent when he does not have the horses to do so. Hopefully Idzik will change that. I have a strong feeling Idzik will get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hill won't make it out of preseason. Can't catch, can't adjust routes and is basically Johnny 'Lam' Jones which is to say fast and inadequate for the NFL game. Doesn't matter how open you are if you simply can't catch the ball and that is Hill in a nutshell. Odell Beckham, Jr. in first round or Eric Ebron (doubt he lasts until 18). If Jets continue to ignore secondary the defense isn't going to be worth crap, so either sign another WR so we can draft a DB since there doesn't appear to be any more DB's worthwhile in FA. Hill is nothing like Johnny Lam Jones ...Jones was a pussy of the highest order Hill is tough and will lay someone out when he gets a chance. He just needs to refine his routes and get his hand eye coordination better and practice can help both of those issues. Hill has no problem putting in the work from what we have heard so lets see how he progresses this year before all this talk of dumping him. he can contribute as a burner and a very good blocker in the running game if all else fails for at least the remainder of his contract. if at that point he does not get it then we cut ties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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