Pressure on Belichick?

[JerryK]

Really? How so? Are you saying the Patriots didn't scout Brady and put a draft worthy grade on him? Are you saying that they put the wrong name on the draft card and didn't mean to use a pick on him? Are you saying that no one else scouted Brady? Are you saying that no teams look for QB's late in the draft to develop for the future? Are you saying that the Patriots didn't develop Brady's skills as a QB? So you want us to believe all that was an accident? Was Joe Montana an accident because he didn't get drafted until the 3rd round? Do you have any idea where Bart Starr was drafted? Or any number of Hall of fame QB's were taken?  

Is it your belief that it's not an accident when a player is taken in the 1st round? Or could it simply be that it's only an accident when that player is drafted by a hated division rival and goes on to make your teams fortunes miserable for the better part of two decades?

The scouting may have been exceptional.  So why doesn't he see the field until Bledsoe is in the hospital?

He is a great QB (to prove I'm no homer), but count me in the 'it was an accident' group.

[PFSIKH]

The scouting may have been exceptional.  So why doesn't he see the field until Bledsoe is in the hospital?

He is a great QB (to prove I'm no homer), but count me in the 'it was an accident' group.

 

I do not know if it is an accident or a flaw in the system.

 

Brady produced in college.  However, he is not athletic and as the Brady 6 special pointed out and he admitted to, the things tested at the combine are not his strengths.  Couple that with the Michicgan coach trying to replace him with Drew Henson, which likely is red flags when it comes to drafting, teams were probably scared of him.  belichick said as much in the same special.

 

Accident?  No.  Regardless of where he went, he would have been good.  HoF career?  Doubtful, but he would have been a productive QB when given a chance.

[shasta14]

The scouting may have been exceptional.  So why doesn't he see the field until Bledsoe is in the hospital?

He is a great QB (to prove I'm no homer), but count me in the 'it was an accident' group.

 

For one, that off-season through training camp Brady went from number 4 on the depth chart to number 2, so it's not like Brady was some unknown to the Patriots he was impressing them all along and their are plenty of stories written to back that up. Bledsoe on the other hand looked like crap throughout the pre-season and had many beat writers questioning when B.B. would make the switch and give the kid a shot not if. Bledsoe got a 100 million dollar contract the year before Brady was drafted, of course they were going to give him every chance to start, but if you think B.B. was going to sit back and watch Bledsoe continue to throw picks and get sacked for much longer then you haven't been paying attention to who B.B. is.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

The answer is no.

 

A majority of those defensive players in your "whose who" in Patriots' history have not suited up for the Patriots in a decade give or take a year.

 

It is not like he has the same core that won 3 of 4. I believe Wilfork and Brady are the only hold overs from the last title.

 

In the 9 years since their last title, they have the best record and his teams have two Superbowl losses and three AFC Championship game losses. This is not a failure of Belichick, it is a testament on how good those Patriot teams were.

 

Everything came together for the Patriots in 2001-2004. A very good QB on a rookie contract and a very good D. As soon as the window was open it starts to close as players get older and the young players need to get paid.

 

Seattle is going to be good for a long time as long as they have Wilson. However, their window is starting to close as those 3rd and 5th rounders start getting paid to the level of their talent.

 

Since their last victory BB has had a HoF QB in his prime, has had two HoF WR's in their prime, a HoF worthy TE in his prime and is widely considered to be the best coach...and he still hasn't won a title.  Facts are facts.  Truth is no one remembers the teams that lose the Supe.  Football is different than other sports.  He's got three titles but he's had a ridiculously loaded team (in the right positions as well) and has now been coaching the team for 14 years.  

 

Again, how long does he have to go without winning (with all that talent) to be considered to have under-performed?

[peebag]

Do you remember the Patriots before Belichick?  Nobody else does.

They had 2 Super Bowl appearances - that's not anything to sneeze at...

[Sperm Edwards]

Because every time the Jets try to shaft the Pats it comes back to kick them in the nutsack.

Stealing Parcells resulted in Belichick telling the Jets FU and going to NE.

Weaseling Curtis Martin from NE resulted in a HOF RB who disappeared for the Jets in big games.

Mo Lew nuff said.

Jumping ahead of NE to steal Vern Goldston.

The Mangina

Trading Revis off to Tampa then Revis lands right in NEs lap.

 

Parcells being an egomaniac was the reason BB went to NE. If Parcells didn't come here, negotiating with the Jets between the AFCCG and the SB that year, then BB wouldn't have been here either.

 

The Martin thing was just stupid from day one, no matter how many people love the guy. What he cost the team in draft picks and salary cap allocation was far greater than what he provided.

 

It was Robertson that Bradway jumped ahead of NE to get, not Gholston. Gholston, we just had the #6 pick and he was the last of the (then theoretical) "blue chip" prospects in that draft. Have little doubt Tannengini thought NE was going to take Gholston if we didn't (or if we'd traded down). And for all we know that may very well have happened.

 

No doubt on Mangini. Jets thought they were getting Belichick-lite. Too bad. He was a smart guy. Just needed (at least) a few more years of being a coordinator. From Parcells to Belichick, I think he seemed to think being a douche keeps guys in line. What he failed to realize is those guys were able to be dicks because they had success that gave their douchebag personas the necessary credibility. Absent that, you're just a plain old douchebag. Seriously, telling Brett Favre to go take a lap for throwing a pick in practice? 

 

Also I don't think trading Revis to Tampa had anything to do with New England. Tampa was just the only team interested. A year later Revis wanted to max out his dollars, present and future. Going to NE and helping them get a ring would solidify him as a worthwhile gun for hire in the secondary like Deion was about 20 years ago. So if he wasn't going to get $14M+ this year, he'd have to show that paying him that much (next year) would be worth it for NE or someone else who just needs a #1 corner as the missing piece. We didn't even have a known quantity at QB when he signed with NE. A team like that doesn't rent a CB for $13M or more (don't know how high NE would have gone if we made an offer). 

[PFSIKH]

Since their last victory BB has had a HoF QB in his prime, has had two HoF WR's in their prime, a HoF worthy TE in his prime and is widely considered to be the best coach...and he still hasn't won a title.  Facts are facts.  Truth is no one remembers the teams that lose the Supe.  Football is different than other sports.  He's got three titles but he's had a ridiculously loaded team (in the right positions as well) and has now been coaching the team for 14 years.  

 

Again, how long does he have to go without winning (with all that talent) to be considered to have under-performed?

When you lose after being 18-0 , you are remembered.

 

He does have a HofF worthy TE. However, in the last three big games he was in order: severly limited due to ankle injury, DNP Broken Arm and DNP Torn ACL. He had two (I think one) HofF worthy receivers (only one in their prime). One time they made it to a Superbowl (see above) in their 3 full seasons together. One year, a miracle catch and missed INT is the only thing between them and a title. Another season, Brady was injured. The third season Wes was injured for the playoffs, but the team had no heart.

 

So, your point of, "a HoF QB in his prime, has had two HoF WR's in their prime, a HoF worthy TE in his prime" while technically accurate, is not accurate under any scrutiny. That combination was togerther for four games and then Randy went off the reservation and was promptly traded/cut.

 

Football is different. You are right. You cannot dominate the sport like the NBA or even MLB when the Yankees are run properly. Especially in this era when the salary cap limits what everyone can spend and impacts successful teams more as good cheap young players become very good players making the GNP of some small countries.

[Jet Nut]

Parcells being an egomaniac was the reason BB went to NE. If Parcells didn't come here, negotiating with the Jets between the AFCCG and the SB that year, then BB wouldn't have been here either.

 

The Martin thing was just stupid from day one, no matter how many people love the guy. What he cost the team in draft picks and salary cap allocation was far greater than what he provided.

 

It was Robertson that Bradway jumped ahead of NE to get, not Gholston. Gholston, we just had the #6 pick and he was the last of the (then theoretical) "blue chip" prospects in that draft. Have little doubt Tannengini thought NE was going to take Gholston if we didn't (or if we'd traded down). And for all we know that may very well have happened.

 

No doubt on Mangini. Jets thought they were getting Belichick-lite. Too bad. He was a smart guy. Just needed (at least) a few more years of being a coordinator. From Parcells to Belichick, I think he seemed to think being a douche keeps guys in line. What he failed to realize is those guys were able to be dicks because they had success that gave their douchebag personas the necessary credibility. Absent that, you're just a plain old douchebag. Seriously, telling Brett Favre to go take a lap for throwing a pick in practice? 

 

Also I don't think trading Revis to Tampa had anything to do with New England. Tampa was just the only team interested. A year later Revis wanted to max out his dollars, present and future. Going to NE and helping them get a ring would solidify him as a worthwhile gun for hire in the secondary like Deion was about 20 years ago. So if he wasn't going to get $14M+ this year, he'd have to show that paying him that much (next year) would be worth it for NE or someone else who just needs a #1 corner as the missing piece. We didn't even have a known quantity at QB when he signed with NE. A team like that doesn't rent a CB for $13M or more (don't know how high NE would have gone if we made an offer).

Jets tried to move up from the 6th but couldn't. They were stuck with picking Gholston at their spot. All we heard was that the Jets were trying to move up for Ryan or MacFadden.

[JustInFudge]

BB is just a Defensive Coordinator without Brady.

[shasta14]

Since their last victory BB has had a HoF QB in his prime, has had two HoF WR's in their prime, a HoF worthy TE in his prime and is widely considered to be the best coach...and he still hasn't won a title.  Facts are facts.  Truth is no one remembers the teams that lose the Supe.  Football is different than other sports.  He's got three titles but he's had a ridiculously loaded team (in the right positions as well) and has now been coaching the team for 14 years.  

 

Again, how long does he have to go without winning (with all that talent) to be considered to have under-performed?

 

This is true, but boy oh boy do Jet fans remember those two back to back AFC Championship losses, good times.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jets tried to move up from the 6th but couldn't. They were stuck with picking Gholston at their spot. All we heard was that the Jets were trying to move up for Ryan or MacFadden.

 

The reason we didn't move up for Ryan, as I recall, was that St Louis wanted our next year's #1 as well as that year's #1 (6th overall). For Tannenbaum, that was too much. So we took Gholston. Then that following year's #1 we packaged with our 2nd round pick and a starting DE and more...for Mark Sanchez. 

 

Yikes.

 

Then, yes, I do remember them being in negotiations to move up to #4 for McFadden but that was also too expensive of a move (expensive in picks). Don't remember what the alleged demand was, though.

[Matt39]

Pretty sure having a 6th round pick on a Big 10 QB work out to be an all-time great is very close to an accident.

Brady is only a piece. An important piece, but still just a piece.

[JF22]

Didn't he go 11 - 5 with Matt Cassel at QB?

[Jet Nut]

The reason we didn't move up for Ryan, as I recall, was that St Louis wanted our next year's #1 as well as that year's #1 (6th overall). For Tannenbaum, that was too much. So we took Gholston. Then that following year's #1 we packaged with our 2nd round pick and a starting DE and more...for Mark Sanchez. 

 

Yikes.

 

Then, yes, I do remember them being in negotiations to move up to #4 for McFadden but that was also too expensive of a move (expensive in picks). Don't remember what the alleged demand was, though.

I remember they liked Ryan but had concerns that his weak arm would have been an issue in the Meadowlands.

[PatsFanTX]

BB is just a Defensive Coordinator without Brady.

Then how did he win 11 games with a QB whose last start was in high school?

[CobraVerde]

LOLOLOLOL

[Jetsfan80]

Brady is only a piece. An important piece, but still just a piece.

 

Been a top 3-4 QB in the league every single season he's been in the league, minus last year.  What other "pieces" have they have that come close to that standard?

[pedro55]

Been a top 3-4 QB in the league every single season he's been in the league, minus last year.  What other "pieces" have they have that come close to that standard?

 

  When you go 18-1, it's more than just the QB.  When you go 11-5 with a backup QB, it's not just Brady.  

And it wasn't like Brady was great his first postseason.  The Pats  first super bowl run was won because they played great defense, not because Brady was great.     He wasn't even as good as Sanchez in all honesty.  But the Pats defense created turnovers and held one of the best offenses to 17 points.   And their kicker made a huge kick in snow and another 48 yarder to win a super bowl.   If Adam has one of those "wide left" moments,  is Brady more like Kelly than Brady?         Brady deserves a lot of credit for being great over the years, but lets be honest,  he wasn't the HOF QB everybody thinks of him now those first few years.    

I can't stand BB, but when you win something like 12 Division titles in 14 years, go 11-5 with a backup QB,   the guy is obviously doing something right.      And people make Rex out to be some kind of hero because he went to back to back AFC Championship games.   The Pats have been to 3 straight AFC Championship games,  was in a super bowl and came close to winning it, etc.   So if the Pats have nobody but Brady,   that's some pretty damn impressive coaching.

[plustin]

I still want to see Belichick consistently win without Brady. He was awful in Cleveland and had one good year with Matt Cassell. 

[JustInFudge]

Then how did he win 11 games with a QB whose last start was in high school?

With good defensive coordinating.

[Jetsfan80]

 I can't stand BB, but when you win something like 12 Division titles in 14 years, go 11-5 with a backup QB,   

 

The Dolphins won 11 too and the Pats didn't make the playoffs that year.  And Rex Ryan wasn't in the division yet either.  

[PatsFanTX]

With good defensive coordinating.

The offense carried the Pats in 2008, not the defense.

Offense was ranked 5th in the NFL, the defense was ranked 10th.

[rillo]

They'll never fire the hoody.