Woody Must Appease Fans With Big Name Coach

[Warfish]

You nailed it right on the head. Good post, bit.

Except it's almost verbatim the exact same thing Bit said when we fired Mangini.

And if JI was still around, I'd almost bet it's the same thing he said when we fired Herm Edwards.

Bit is the Anti-SAR. SAR wants every coach fired every year. Bit never wants the Coach fired, ever.

[stoicsentry]

Supposing Woody just fires Idzik, Marty and the scouting department and brings Rex back. How awesome would that be?

[shuler82]

If you don't think Woody is influenced by a FREAKING PLANE FLYING OVER PRACTICE and billboards/towels calling for his general manager to be fired, then you simply don't know Woody Johnson.

Let me guess.. You helped finance this?

A few other things..

The Idzik hate by some has gone overboard, to the point where I don't really like him but feel like I need to come to his defense.

He's added Decker, Harvin and Ivory. He pulled off a solid trade to get Revis out of town. He took a flier on Geno in the 2nd round.. Can't blame him for that-,most predicted we'd use a 1st on the guy (besides, he needed someone to replace Sanchez)

his drafting needs work. we've got Richardson and Aboushi as starters in two years. I think that amaro will pan out. I hope that milliner and Mcdougle will as well. Maybe Pryor in the right scheme

He came in with a long term plan. He didn't want to over pay for mediocacy in FA. Funny how in sept we were all saying this would be a .500 team, with essentially the same roster as now. Maybe the coaching is part to blame here?

[T0mShane]

Like it or don't, but Rex has been one of the most successful head coaches in franchise history. Only one coach has gone deeper in the post season, and only one coach has won more games in a regular season. No coach has won more post season games. Sure, that says a lot more about the history of the franchise than it does about Rex's greatness, but that's still the fact of the matter.

Idzik, to date, has been one of the worst executives in franchise history - and that's really saying something.

You think Idzik can convince Woody that it's all Rex's fault, and his plan is on the right track? Wow, I just hope Woody isn't that stupid.

Rex is definitely getting fired, and he should. He certainly has a major role in the QB problem during his tenure, the biggest problem on the team. But the idea that New Coach X is gonna come in here and instantly do better than Rex Ryan is wishful thinking. The Jets can definitely do a lot worse than Ryan. In fact, they usually do.

You realize that he has to win two of his last three games just to finish with a better winning percentage as Jets coach than the immortal Herm Edwards, yes?

[slats]

TLDR Version: You REALLY want to keep Rex, you're just not overly willing to take a bunch of sh*t from fellow posters about it.Fire Rex. Fire Marty. Fire idzik. Fire Bradway. Cut Geno Smith.That's my offseason priority list, and none of it requires mincing of words or half-hearted defenses of those to be cut loose.To quote current events: Burn it down. Burin it all the **** down.

All I do is take sh*t here, so clearly I'm willing. You're giving me sh*t right now. Look at my willingness go!

I like Rex, that hasn't changed. But his string here is done. He needs to go now, and I've said it many times. The Jets, as an organization, need to go in a completely new direction. Top to bottom.

And you still haven't told me how Idzik convinces Woody to keep him on.

[Beerfish]

it's a passing league, take Rex Ryan out of the equation, no head coach can win consistently with no QB and no corners. Look how good the Pats are playing is that because Belly is a genius? or is it because Brady and Revis are on the same team. 

Rex gets no pass for the QB aspect he is as responsible for that as any other part of the team.   Our Cb's this year have been terrible, due to injury and lack of depth in general.  Still our coach failed to protect them in any way shape or forum for most of the year.  The one thing that should help out bad cb's?  A great consistent pass rush.

[slats]

You realize that he has to win two of his last three games just to finish with a better winning percentage as Jets coach than the immortal Herm Edwards, yes?

Rex did a lot more with Mark Sanchez than Herm Edwards could do with Testaverde and Pennington.

The real sad story is that Terry Bradway was a better GM than Idzik.

[Jack Straw]

Let me guess.. You helped finance this?

A few other things..

The Idzik hate by some has gone overboard, to the point where I don't really like him but feel like I need to come to his defense.

He's added Decker, Harvin and Ivory. He pulled off a solid trade to get Revis out of town. He took a flier on Geno in the 2nd round.. Can't blame him for that-,most predicted we'd use a 1st on the guy (besides, he needed someone to replace Sanchez)

his drafting needs work. we've got Richardson and Aboushi as starters in two years. I think that amaro will pan out. I hope that milliner and Mcdougle will as well.

He came in with a long term plan. He didn't want to over pay for mediocacy in FA. Funny how in sept we were all saying this would be a .500 team, with essentially the same roster as now. Maybe the coaching is part to blame here?

 

I didn't help finance anything, but if that's how people want to spend their money, who am I to argue? 

 

Also, it took Brian Winters' ACL exploding to get Aboushi as a "starter" so easy on the praise there. You think Amaro will pan out and hope that Milliner and McDougle will as well - great. All three have sucked but I certainly hope they pan out, too.

[T0mShane]

Rex did a lot more with Mark Sanchez than Herm Edwards could do with Testaverde and Pennington.

The real sad story is that Terry Bradway was a better GM than Idzik.

He can catch Mangini with one more win, I think. At least you have that.

[Beerfish]

Rex did a lot more with Mark Sanchez than Herm Edwards could do with Testaverde and Pennington.

The real sad story is that Terry Bradway was a better GM than Idzik.

The oline, rbs and defense rex inherited had a big part to do with it.  Rex was a big reason for a lto fo the irrational sanchez love.  As far as how far rex got them, rex's defense fell apart in both afc title games.

 

The funnies think about the Rex Sanchez bit is that everyone and their dog has hated all of our ocs's over the years and they have had to put up with very little talent and horrible QB's.  Rex has one year in which he doesn't have top notch cb's and half the board gives him a pass. 

 

If people are going to give credit ro rex for the afc titles and the Qb play then poor Shotty should be thrown a parade.

[fythesg]

This whole mess is Woody's fault to begin with. This is the result of firing Tannenabum but not firing Rex with him. By keeping Rex, many GM candidates declined the job because they didn't want to be saddled with Rex has their Head Coach. Its why we are stuck with Idzik as the GM. He wasn't one of the top candidates when the search started but was the guy that Woody had to settle on.

 

Woody has a chance to fix the situation by cleaning house and finding someone who is both qualified and competent to run the football operations of the Jets. The new GM will be able to bring in their own coach, have a ton of cap space and a top 5 draft pick. 

[Warfish]

All I do is take sh*t here, so clearly I'm willing. You're giving me sh*t right now. Look at my willingness go!

I like Rex, that hasn't changed. But his string here is done. He needs to go now, and I've said it many times. The Jets, as an organization, need to go in a completely new direction. Top to bottom.

All this is missing is the "Rex will be better off someplace new anyway, and I look forward to seeing him succeed" so often added on to such posts.

And you still haven't told me how Idzik convinces Woody to keep him on.

Why would I defend a guy I just say needs fired without qualifictions?

His only defense is 1. Rex forced on him. And 2. 2 Years isn't enough time for any plan to come together.

#1 is legit, but weak. #2 is just failcascade.

[slats]

He can catch Mangini with one more win, I think. At least you have that.

Weeb tailed off in his last few years, too. Worse than Rex, even.

You can raise the insanely overrated Mangini and accurately rated Edwards from the dead, but they'll never reach 11 wins or the championship game. Rex, fwiw, is one of the most successful coaches this team has ever had. It's time for him to go now, but I'm not entirely confident that the next guy is gonna be an improvement. If history is any guide, he probably won't won't be.

[T0mShane]

Weeb tailed off in his last few years, too. Worse than Rex, even.

You can raise the insanely overrated Mangini and accurately rated Edwards from the dead, but they'll never reach 11 wins or the championship game. Rex, fwiw, is one of the most successful coaches this team has ever had. It's time for him to go now, but I'm not entirely confident that the next guy is gonna be an improvement. If history is any guide, he probably won't won't be.

Is it "tailing off" when you have two good years and then four awful ones?

[fythesg]

Weeb tailed off in his last few years, too. Worse than Rex, even.

You can raise the insanely overrated Mangini and accurately rated Edwards from the dead, but they'll never reach 11 wins or the championship game. Rex, fwiw, is one of the most successful coaches this team has ever had. It's time for him to go now, but I'm not entirely confident that the next guy is gonna be an improvement. If history is any guide, he probably won't won't be.

 

The problem with Rex is that he never really developed as a Head Coach. He spends too much time on the defense, doesn't understand or have any interest in the offense. He also continues to make the same clock management mistakes year after year. 

 

Rex is best suited as a defensive coordinator or the head coach of a team with an established offense that needs defensive help. He could have success in Atlanta because he would be able to focus solely on fixing their defense.

[vincenzo69]

Rex did a lot more with Mark Sanchez than Herm Edwards could do with Testaverde and Pennington.

The real sad story is that Terry Bradway was a better GM than Idzik.

Bradway is still in our FO. He is still a part of the problem and needs to become unemployed along with the misunderstood Idzik

[vincenzo69]

Is it "tailing off" when you have two good years and then four awful ones?

Yeah it's Rex's fault he couldn't develop Tim Tebow, Stephen Hill and Calvin Pryor. Coincidentally, neither can the rest of the nfl.

[Beerfish]

This whole mess is Woody's fault to begin with. This is the result of firing Tannenabum but not firing Rex with him. By keeping Rex, many GM candidates declined the job because they didn't want to be saddled with Rex has their Head Coach. Its why we are stuck with Idzik as the GM. He wasn't one of the top candidates when the search started but was the guy that Woody had to settle on.

 

Woody has a chance to fix the situation by cleaning house and finding someone who is both qualified and competent to run the football operations of the Jets. The new GM will be able to bring in their own coach, have a ton of cap space and a top 5 draft pick. 

Agreed on all points.

[slats]

The problem with Rex is that he never really developed as a Head Coach. He spends too much time on the defense, doesn't understand or have any interest in the offense. He also continues to make the same clock management mistakes year after year. 

 

Rex is best suited as a defensive coordinator or the head coach of a team with an established offense that needs defensive help. He could have success in Atlanta because he would be able to focus solely on fixing their defense.

I don't disagree.

[Beerfish]

Yeah it's Rex's fault he couldn't develop Tim Tebow, Stephen Hill and Calvin Pryor. Coincidentally, neither can the rest of the nfl.

Rex was a huge part of going after Tebow, he gets no pass there.  Hill you can give him a pass on.  Rex was a huge part of Pryor, gleefully calling him is hammer 10 seconds after he was drafted.  Two of the three of your examples have RExtopia written all over them.

[fythesg]

Agreed on all points.

 

It should be an attractive job. The next GM basically get a clean slate where he can pick his own coach, front office staff, have about $50 million in cap space, a top 5, maybe top 3 pick. The next GM can shape the organization in his vision and have the tools to execute that plan. 

[slats]

Is it "tailing off" when you have two good years and then four awful ones?

.500 isn't awful.

And Weeb only had three good years out of eleven by your standards, but a Super Bowl Championship puts him head and shoulders above anyone else whoever coached this team. Rex's two AFC Championship appearances put him alone in the second spot for this franchise when it comes to post season success.

Sorry about that.

[Gen X Jet]

The problem with Rex is that he never really developed as a Head Coach. He spends too much time on the defense, doesn't understand or have any interest in the offense. He also continues to make the same clock management mistakes year after year. 

 

Rex is best suited as a defensive coordinator or the head coach of a team with an established offense that needs defensive help. He could have success in Atlanta because he would be able to focus solely on fixing their defense.

 

Somebody educate Falcons fans, they aren't too happy about the prospect of Sexy Rexy: http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/4018345-new-york-times-declares-mike-smith-gone/

[vincenzo69]

Rex was a huge part of going after Tebow, he gets no pass there.  Hill you can give him a pass on.  Rex was a huge part of Pryor, gleefully calling him is hammer 10 seconds after he was drafted.  Two of the three of your examples have RExtopia written all over them.

Woody Johnson was the reason we got Teblow. Which is why Rex barely used him and started Greg McElroy over him. Rex had a hand in Pryor but JOHN IDZIK WAS THE GM AND IT WAS HIS CALL.

[FidelioJet]

Not really, despite Idzik being a terrible talent evaluator unlike 95% of the GMs out there he did not get to pick his coach and to go along with that the assistants (who I think are very very wak on this team.)  Rex, being a HEAD coach should have a big part of his attention going to the QB position, it's more of an afterhtought for him.  As for corners, Idzik drafted one 9th overall and another 3rd rounder this year.  He ttoally blew the patterson signing.

 

What the lack of corners showed me this year is that Rex is not some great D guru that can get results with some holes on the roster.  The mantra seems to be give rex his hof corners and spend all 1st rounders on defense and he will produce a great defense!

 

Agreed on most of this...Rex was just as much an architect of this team and talent as Idzik.  Rex was in love with McDoogle and Milner (do you really think Rex didn't have a say in drafting those two) 

 

I will also add in addition to Idzik being saddled with a HC not fit for modern day football he was also stuck with a 10 year + proven loser as head of scouting.  If there's one person that needs to go first it's Bradway.  

 

I'm one of the very, very, very few that believe Idzik hasn't done that poor a job and should retain his job.  I like a lot of things Idzik as done.

[Green DNA]

Idzik's future will not be determined in the press or by silly fan billboards.

 

Idzik's future will be determined by his argument to Woody about his long term plan.

 

If Idzik can convince Woody the problem is Rex (and mismanagement/poor development of Geno, despite being a Idzik pick), combined with injuries (a legit excuse at CB), and that his plan, with his guy (not Rex, who as clearly forced on him) will work......he will be retained.

 

It is my view that Fans think their power is far more than it is.  Fan opinion is utterly meaningless to an NFL owner. 

 

Until such time as Fans literally stay away (from BUYING tickets, attendance is irrelevant) in droves and effect the bottom line, no NFL Owner gives even the tiniest **** what Fans think about how the team is run.

 

And in New York, If the Owner is swayed by the NYLOLSports Media.....well, we have bigger problems than Idzik, because the NYLOLSports emdia is the LAST people an NFL Owner should pay attention to. 

 

I'm no Idzik fan.  But I can easily see Idzik being retained based purely on the argument that A. 1 1/2 year is not long enough to be fair, given Rex got 6 season and B. Rex (and Rex's guys, Rex's system, etc). was forced on Idzik. 

 

No one says we fans have to like it, but I wouldn't be so sure Idzik is gone. 

 

 

Idzik bungled 12 draft picks this year.....12!!!!  That in and of itself should get him fired.  Bradway and his elite band of talent evaluators need to go also otherwise we will be having the same conversation in 3 years.  

[bitonti]

Rex gets no pass for the QB aspect he is as responsible for that as any other part of the team.    

 

so you think a better coach "develops" Geno Smith? Really? 

[FidelioJet]

so you think a better coach "develops" Geno Smith? Really? 

 

Sure, it's possible.  Maybe a better coach finds a way to run an offense that is better suited for his skill set.

 

Maybe a better coach develops Sanchez better.  Uses Sanchez in a way more suited to his talents.  \.  Maybe a better coach doesn't put Sanchez in the 4th quarter of a pre season game.

 

Maybe a better coach doesn't tout Ground and Pound and finds a better veteran QB - or helps recruit a better veteran by enticing him with NOT ground and pound.  

[bitonti]

Sure, it's possible.  Maybe a better coach finds a way to run an offense that is better suited for his skill set.

 

Maybe a better coach develops Sanchez better.  Uses Sanchez in a way more suited to his talents.  \.  Maybe a better coach doesn't put Sanchez in the 4th quarter of a pre season game.

 

Maybe a better coach doesn't tout Ground and Pound and finds a better veteran QB - or helps recruit a better veteran by enticing him with NOT ground and pound.  

 

Follow up question did you see the Eagles game last week? Mark Sanchez was responsible for Chip Kelly's lowest offensive output, ever. That is pro, college, everything.  139 total yards. 

 

Coaches coach and players play. This idea that the right coach can develop a terrible player... it's hopeful. Bill bellichek was a nobody until Tom Brady showed up. Bill Parcells was just a guy until Lawrence taylor showed up. They weren't developed by their coaches they were studs. That's the Jets' problem a lack of talent. Not a lack of coaching. 

[FidelioJet]

Follow up question did you see the Eagles game last week? Mark Sanchez was responsible for Chip Kelly's lowest offensive output, ever. That is pro, college, everything. 

 

Coaches coach and players play. This idea that the right coach can develop a terrible player... it's hopeful.

 

Did you see who they were playing?

[bitonti]

I'm one of the very, very, very few that believe Idzik hasn't done that poor a job and should retain his job.  I like a lot of things Idzik as done.

 

 

like what? 

[bitonti]

Did you see who they were playing?

going into the game the Eagles were 9-3 the Seahawks were 8-4

[FidelioJet]

going into the game the Eagles were 9-3 the Seahawks were 8-4

 

You know as well I do the Seahawks D has really stepped it up the past few weeks.  They are playing at a much higher level than they were early on.  

 

In addition Sanchez has only been playing a few weeks.  I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning but he's hasn't been pretty good as the QB of the Eagles.

[Jack Straw]

Mark Sanchez has 10 TDs and 9 turnovers....why are we arguing over his greatness?

[FidelioJet]

like what? 

 

I'll make a list for you ...

 

1) He got a pretty good deal for Revis

2) He cleaned up the cap mess (don't say anyone would have done that because it's simply not true.  Not everyone would have)

3) He drafted a DROY

4) He put the Jets in VERY good position for next year and saved money in a year (this year) that the team wasn't going anywhere anyway.

 

Sure he's made some mistakes but I think a lot has been amplified due to two factors - devastating injuries to the CB position (yes he came in light but the level of injuries/insanity really hurt) and he missed on the QB (it happens - not many argued with taking Geno in the 2nd) 

 

He was straddled with a lot coming in and really hasn't had a chance to fix the mess he was given.