Fitz Just Not Good Enough

[EM31]

<snip>

yep, the team is exactly the same minus the QB.  Thank you Ryan for making us relevant! it is all about the greatness of Ryan Fitzpatrick!

It is not about Fitzpatrick being great.  It never was.  Nobody on this side of the discussion, not a single person thinks Fitzpatrick is anything other than a mid-tier QB at the very best.  Fitzpatrick has made us relevant by being not terrible. I know that is hard for Geno fans to grasp this point.  We signed up for "not terrible" and that is exactly what we have received.  Maybe a bit better than that.

By the way, a QB who was "not terrible" would have yielded 8 or more wins last year.  Easily.

Geno is on the bench where he belongs and he will get his shot in a fair and open QB competition next year.  Until then his job is to support the team and be ready in case of injury or in case he is needed to throw a hail Mary or something. 

[southparkcpa]

It is not about Fitzpatrick being great.  It never was.  Nobody on this side of the discussion, not a single person thinks Fitzpatrick is anything other than a mid-tier QB at the very best.  Fitzpatrick has made us relevant by being not terrible. I know that is hard for Geno fans to grasp this point.  We signed up for "not terrible" and that is exactly what we have received.  Maybe a bit better than that.

Geno is on the bench where he belongs and he will get his shot in a fair and open QB competition next year.  Until then his job is to support the team and be ready in case of injury or in case he is needed to throw a hail Mary or something. 

Agreed.  Geno may benefit from this however, if we $hit the bed in Oakland, we move very near terrible and away from not terrible.  

[EM31]

Agreed.  Geno may benefit from this however, if we $hit the bed in Oakland, we move very near terrible and away from not terrible.  

Depends on how we sh1t the bed.  The Raiders are not the same pushovers as they have been in years gone by and they probably view us the same way we view them.  As an improved team but one we should be beating if we are really as good as we think we are.

[Jetsfan80]

Until then his job is to support the team and be ready in case of injury or in case he is needed to throw a hail Mary or something. 

In what situation would we need to have a Hail Mary thrown out of bounds?

[nyjunc]

Geno once threw 3 INT's in a quarter.  Please explain how Brandon Marshall would have "fixed" Geno last season.

bad games happen, there is a reason Fitz is on team #7 and finally having success.

Marshall has been the biggest difference but there are a million differences including OC, scheme, playcalling, etc... but keep believing it's all the great Fitz.  as we know the best QBs always end up on 4 different teams in4 consecutive years.  teams HATE to hold on to good QBs

[EM31]

In what situation would we need to have a Hail Mary thrown out of bounds?

I would have used him on Sunday after the onside kick worked.  In that situation we needed someone who could go endzone from midfield.  Maybe two times.

Look, Hail Mary passes are extremely low percentage to begin with but they do sometimes work as we have seen this year.  Why not use him for that?  Maybe we get a defensive PI on the 1.

[nyjunc]

In what situation would we need to have a Hail Mary thrown out of bounds?

that would be as effective as a 10 yd pass over the middle w/ 15 secs left, right?

[nyjunc]

I would have used him on Sunday after the onside kick worked.  In that situation we needed someone who could go endzone from midfield.  Maybe two times.

Look, Hail Mary passes are extremely low percentage to begin with but they do sometimes work as we have seen this year.  Why not use him for that?  Maybe we get a defensive PI on the 1.

I thought about it at the time, Bowles discussed it yesterday and said it wouldn't be fair to geno but why not?  we had a QB in the game who couldn't reach the EZ, the likelihood is that we don't complete it but geno gives us 2-3 shots at the EZ and instead we completed a 10 yd pass and the game was over.

[EM31]

that would be as effective as a 10 yd pass over the middle w/ 15 secs left, right?

It was more than 10 yards and without the penalty we would have had a chance to spike the ball and get one last play off. 

And we get no more than two EZ shots with Geno on the 48.  The game is in NE with a NE clock operator.  We aint getting three shots to the EZ with 14-15 seconds left.

[nyjunc]

It was more than 10 yards and without the penalty we would have had a chance to spike the ball and get one last play off. 

we got the penalty b/c we didn't have time to get on the ball and spike it.  the pass could have been great if we had more time but w/ only 15 secs it was a huge risk and it backfired.

[Integrity28]

Yeah, I was active in the thread, and I totally agree. It was an argument of rational and the irrational. Its rather irrational to talk about how bad Geno "is" with this group when no one has seen him play at all. Thats not being rational at all. Having an opinion of what you expect from him is one thing, THATS not irrational. However, acting like the man is a failure with this group while acting like you're correcting everyone who feels like Geno could possibly be productive is absolutely irrational and moronic. That doesnt mean the topic in general is moronic or beneath me...hence the reason why I participated in the convo. 

 

Anyway, Fitz is playing well and I feel like the Redskins/Pats games were his best games, which means that he's getting better as the season goes on. Though he still turned the ball over, Sunday was the first game where Fitz didnt throw a pick. You can support Fitz and recognize his contribution while still thinking that Geno could also be good in this system. The coaches themselves gave him the benefit of the doubt by keeping him as the 1st stringer during TC. 

Its ridiculous to think that you cant acknowledge fitz production yet like Geno's potential at the same time. 

LMFAO

I mostly left you specifically alone in this arguing, but I have to jump in here on behalf of logic. You cannot state that it was an argument of rational vs. irrational, when the Fitz side is basing their argument on the actual outcomes with Fitz, versus the hypothetical outcomes you think we'd have with Geno. 

It is just as irrational (if not more) to argue Geno would suddenly not suck with this group of people, as it is to argue he would continue to suck. You're logic is wrong, and this argument is garbage and has run it's course. I suggest we focus on the actuals.

 

 

[EM31]

I thought about it at the time, Bowles discussed it yesterday and said it wouldn't be fair to geno but why not?  we had a QB in the game who couldn't reach the EZ, the likelihood is that we don't complete it but geno gives us 2-3 shots at the EZ and instead we completed a 10 yd pass and the game was over.

I think more likely he did not think of it.

Bowles is a better sitiuational game manager than Rex  but not as much better as I would like.

[Jetsfan80]

I think more likely he did not think of it.

Bowles is a better sitiuational game manager than Rex  but not as much better as I would like.

Hopefully he's willing to learn and adapt.  It's OK to act like a rookie HC sometimes as long as you learn from it.  Rex is acting like a rookie HC 7 years into his career.

[prime21]

Bowles is a better sitiuational game manager than Rex  but not as much better as I would like.

We are only 7 games in while Rex had many years.

[EM31]

Hopefully he's willing to learn and adapt.  It's OK to act like a rookie HC sometimes as long as you learn from it.  Rex is acting like a rookie HC 7 years into his career.

No doubt.  The London game this weekend is a case in point.

Bowles needs some work.  No shame in that.  Look at New England who are great at this stuff in part because everyone continues to work on it even after they are the best in the league at it already.

[Integrity28]

If we wanted a QB to just heave it to the endzone, then you use Petty. He's got the biggest arm.

Fitz can't reach.

Geno would have held the ball until he got sacked by a 2 man rush.

 

[EM31]

we got the penalty b/c we didn't have time to get on the ball and spike it.  the pass could have been great if we had more time but w/ only 15 secs it was a huge risk and it backfired.

Again I think there was still time to get up to the line and spike it without taking the penalty.  I have already said I would have used Geno to go deep on that play but we did not execute the spike crisply enough.

[EM31]

If we wanted a QB to just heave it to the endzone, then you use Petty. He's got the biggest arm.

Fitz can't reach.

Geno would have held the ball until he got sacked by a 2 man rush.

 

LOL... perhaps so but was Petty even dressed?

 

Once you go with the emergency QB are you not then locked into him from that point onward?

[Snell41]

Yeah, I was active in the thread, and I totally agree. It was an argument of rational and the irrational. Its rather irrational to talk about how bad Geno "is" with this group when no one has seen him play at all. Thats not being rational at all. Having an opinion of what you expect from him is one thing, THATS not irrational. However, acting like the man is a failure with this group while acting like you're correcting everyone who feels like Geno could possibly be productive is absolutely irrational and moronic. That doesnt mean the topic in general is moronic or beneath me...hence the reason why I participated in the convo. 

 

Anyway, Fitz is playing well and I feel like the Redskins/Pats games were his best games, which means that he's getting better as the season goes on. Though he still turned the ball over, Sunday was the first game where Fitz didnt throw a pick. You can support Fitz and recognize his contribution while still thinking that Geno could also be good in this system. The coaches themselves gave him the benefit of the doubt by keeping him as the 1st stringer during TC. 

Its ridiculous to think that you cant acknowledge fitz production yet like Geno's potential at the same time. 

Up to this point all he's shown is failure.  You can put up the surrounding cast all you want, but the fact of the matter is when a guy can't drive a Ford Taurus it doesn't mean you put him in a Porsche and expect everything to suddenly just be better.  It just makes the crash a whole lot more costly. 

[nyjunc]

Again I think there was still time to get up to the line and spike it without taking the penalty.  I have already said I would have used Geno to go deep on that play but we did not execute the spike crisply enough.

clearly there wasn't, you have receivers down the field trying to get back to the line.  it's not like Marshall was walking back.

[nyjunc]

Up to this point all he's shown is failure.  You can put up the surrounding cast all you want, but the fact of the matter is when a guy can't drive a Ford Taurus it doesn't mean you put him in a Porsche and expect everything to suddenly just be better.  It just makes the crash a whole lot more costly. 

so once a QB struggles their first couple of years they are done? not to mention struggling w/ one of the least talented O's in the league.  so increasing the talent around him, changing the OC wouldn't help? so before Fitz became mediocre he sucked for about 5-6 years.  using your logic he never should have received another shot and shouldn't be starting for us.

[Integrity28]

LOL... perhaps so but was Petty even dressed?

 

Once you go with the emergency QB are you not then locked into him from that point onward?

I don't know... the whole topic is stupid, that's why I made a stupid suggestion.

The fans should be griping that we had a 4th quarter lead and gave it up... not griping that the hail mary didn't happen. I'm pissed we put ourselves in a position to need a hail mary to tie it in the first place... do you think for one second even if we tie it, we win in overtime? No.

We had the win, and we handed it right bad to them.

[nyjunc]

I don't know... the whole topic is stupid, that's why I made a stupid suggestion.

The fans should be griping that we had a 4th quarter lead and gave it up... not griping that the hail mary didn't happen. I'm pissed we put ourselves in a position to need a hail mary to tie it in the first place... do you think for one second even if we tie it, we win in overtime? No.

We had the win, and we handed it right bad to them.

total team loss.

D blows lead

STs give NE FP edge all day

O cannot execute w/ a lead late

bad coaching decisions

[Integrity28]

so once a QB struggles their first couple of years they are done? not to mention struggling w/ one of the least talented O's in the league.  so increasing the talent around him, changing the OC wouldn't help? so before Fitz became mediocre he sucked for about 5-6 years.  using your logic he never should have received another shot and shouldn't be starting for us.

Using your logic, we should start Geno, so that we can bench him even if he's doing well, to give another QB behind him that sucked a chance.

Round and round we go... how dumb can this get? I'm sure you'll let us know... 

[EM31]

clearly there wasn't, you have receivers down the field trying to get back to the line.  it's not like Marshall was walking back.

Huh?

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/10/jets_brandon_marshall_discusse.html

Look it was clearly possible if Marshall had done his job.  I get it you want Geno but that play properly executed would absolutely have given us another one.

So I get back to the line of scrimmage and there was a few seconds left and I was trying to figure out who was on and who was off," Marshall said, explaining the final play. "So I just should have done a better job of figuring it out faster.

[Integrity28]

total team loss.

D blows lead

STs give NE FP edge all day

O cannot execute w/ a lead late

bad coaching decisions

I know, just like in Philly. 

We didn't lose these 2 games because of one person. We're getting beat as a team, not beat because of a single weak link.

Last year, there were several games where the defense had us set up for a win, then Geno turned the ball over, we lost the lead and that was that... Geno lost the games. That's the type of sh*t that rips the heart out of the fanbase and the team chemistry.

[nyjunc]

Using your logic, we should start Geno, so that we can bench him even if he's doing well, to give another QB behind him that sucked a chance.

Round and round we go... how dumb can this get? I'm sure you'll let us know... 

at no point have I said geno should start but reading was never one of your strengths.

the point of this talk is that it is foolish to bury geno and pretend like all our problems were b/c of him and that all our problems have been solved b/c of Fitz.  That's just not fair- that doesn't mean I want Geno to start, that doesn't mean I hate Fitz, it's just reality.

[nyjunc]

I know, just like in Philly. 

We didn't lose these 2 games because of one person. We're getting beat as a team, not beat because of a single weak link.

Last year, there were several games where the defense had us set up for a win, then Geno turned the ball over, we lost the lead and that was that... Geno lost the games. That's the type of sh*t that rips the heart out of the fanbase and the team chemistry.

Philly was a team loss too but the biggest culprit was the QB.

 

what games were we set up for wins then geno turned it over?  please list them all.

[EM31]

total team loss.

D blows lead

STs give NE FP edge all day

O cannot execute w/ a lead late

bad coaching decisions

Maybe so.  If he had not been warming up then putting him in might have been stupid but the play was to get him warming up before the onside kick.  As I said before a hail Mary is a very low percentage play to begin with... maybe going from Fiitz to Geno gives us a 5% chance instead of a 3% chance but I do think that in that narrow circumstance that Geno would have been a better desperation option than Fitz.

[nyjunc]

 

Huh?

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/10/jets_brandon_marshall_discusse.html

Look it was clearly possible if Marshall had done his job.  I get it you want Geno but that play properly executed would absolutely have given us another one.

looked like he was running to me. that just sounds like a guy taking the blame that is a leader on our team rather than passing the blame.

 

[nyjunc]

Maybe so.  If he had not been warming up then putting him in might have been stupid but the play was to get him warming up before the onside kick.  As I said before a hail Mary is a very low percentage play to begin with... maybe going from Fiitz to Geno gives us a 5% chance instead of a 3% chance but I do think that in that narrow circumstance that Geno would have been a better desperation option than Fitz.

Fitz gave us a zero% chance as we couldn't take a shot at the EZ.  I cannot believe an NFL QB cannot reach the EZ from midfield.

[EM31]

Philly was a team loss too but the biggest culprit was the QB.

 

what games were we set up for wins then geno turned it over?  please list them all.

Not even close on the biggest culprit.  There were many culprits that day.

[JustInFudge]

If Marshall catches that TD, does this thread exist? 

[nyjunc]

Not even close on the biggest culprit.  There were many culprits that day.

there were many but the biggest was Fitz.

[EM31]

Fitz gave us a zero% chance as we couldn't take a shot at the EZ.  I cannot believe an NFL QB cannot reach the EZ from midfield.

If Marshall gets set properly then he could have reached from that spot..

The ability to throw the ball 50 yards in the air may be the twentieth most important attribute in a list of the top twenty important things you want your NFL QB to be able to do.