Fitz Just Not Good Enough

[T0mShane]

GO FOR THE JUGGLER

[T0mShane]

Yesterday, with a hobbled Ivory and Zach ******* Stacy, yes.  It was there and he was playing well, so why not?  

Like I said in the other thread, you have to go for the juggler vs. that team, especially in Foxborough.  You know they score at will once its clicking and that's only a matter of time. I thought we should have spread it wide and force them to stop it.  Running the ball was just wasting downs...especially with Stacy.

29 carriers at 3.1 a clip? (Ivory 2.4 and Stacy 2.1)  It's the definition of insanity.  Trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.  Meanwhile, Fitz was completing the ball at 7 per toss. 

The Jets had 19 passing first downs.  19.  And 3 running first downs. They were 8-14 on 3rd down.  You have to be conscious of that if you're calling the game. 

[T0mShane]

??????????????????????????

[T0mShane]

OMG

[JustInFudge]

GO FOR THE JUGGLER

haha - I just caught that.  lol

[JustInFudge]

 

Good post, right? 

[whodeawhodat]

Meh, I thought the play action worked okay with FItz rolling out. I would have like to see him throw more even the 5 yard passes in lieu of the run with Stacy. I think it is spot on that we were trying to wear them down along with the clock.  3rd and 17 was the Saratoga, when they converted that, they rolled onto the win.  Brady being Brady...  With Ivory not being himself, I am proud of the way we fought.  No turnovers by our defense was the key imo to the whole game.  I thought we did a decent job on Gronk.  Good game to learn from and we had a punchers chance to take out the defending SB Champs on thier home turf.  Would have liked the win but on to next week.  GO JETS!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Also there are too many deep attempts on 3rd & short/middle (not just talking about this game). Having Fitz throw it 20 yards downfield to Devin Smith (who was covered anyway) is an unnecessarily low-percentage play to call on 3rd & 6. It's fine to have Smith run that fly route to spread the D a bit, and sure, throw it if he's all alone, but Decker was wide open for an 8-9 yard gain past the sticks, right in the same LOS as Smith. Could have been an easy first down on NE's 45 with barely 5 minutes left. All the time in the world left to dink and dunk our way down to a last-second TD (or at worst a game-tying FG), and hopefully leave NE too little time to score again themselves.

It's not the first time Gailey has called for the #1 target to be a deep, deep pass on 3rd down when a 5 yard pass would do. He has to stop that. Fitz is what he is and he isn't what he isn't. I'm really surprised it happens this often, especially with his best receiving weapons being giant possession receivers and Fitz generally having pretty good accuracy & placement on short/intermediate throws.

[Integrity28]

I am pretty sure the OP was the Border Collie and not a human being.

No way. Border Collies are smart and loyal.

[JustInFudge]

Also there are too many deep attempts on 3rd & short/middle (not just talking about this game). Having Fitz throw it 20 yards downfield to Devin Smith (who was covered anyway) is an unnecessarily low-percentage play to call on 3rd & 6. It's fine to have Smith run that fly route to spread the D a bit, and sure, throw it if he's all alone, but Decker was wide open for an 8-9 yard gain past the sticks, right in the same LOS as Smith. Could have been an easy first down on NE's 45 with barely 5 minutes left. All the time in the world left to dink and dunk our way down to a last-second TD (or at worst a game-tying FG), and hopefully leave NE too little time to score again themselves.

It's not the first time Gailey has called for the #1 target to be a deep, deep pass on 3rd down when a 5 yard pass would do. He has to stop that. Fitz is what he is and he isn't what he isn't. I'm really surprised it happens this often, especially with his best receiving weapons being giant possession receivers and Fitz generally having pretty good accuracy & placement on short/intermediate throws.

I've been saying that all year long.  I'm not sure if that's Fitz or Gailey though.  It's almost like when Fitz sees single coverage in those situations, he cant contain himself even though he hasnt connected on one, all season long.  It's puzzling because like you said, they've got big possession receivers and Fitz is pretty damn accurate on those short intermediate throws. 

[Bugg]

It's a mentality that a lot of defensive coaches (or OCs coaching for defensive-minded HCs) have trouble breaking out of. In this regard, Ryan was no different, nor was Mangini before him, Herm before him, or Parcells before him. Running the ball keeps the clock moving. If you can keep moving them slowly you're where you want to be: your offense on the field instead of theirs.

In a way it can become a goal to have a means to scoring via a certain way, seemingly more than actually scoring no matter which way is most efficient in a given game or situation: as long as you move the chains, it keeps your offense and their defense on the field longer; likewise it means their offense your own defense on the field less. Running has a higher percentage of gaining yards than a pass since there's probably a 95% chance of gaining at least 1-2 yards at worst but even an unreal QB doesn't connect 75% of the time. A meh QB you're happy with anything north of 60%.

By the end of the game this would (theoretically) pay dividends. Also the idea that the other team will simply score fewer times if they have fewer possessions, and when they do have a possession your own defense will be less-winded because your offense provided them a longer rest since the last time they were out there.

The problem is while that works if your running game is getting chunks of 3-6 yards, with the occasional bigger run feathered in to boot. It doesn't when they're only gaining 1-3 yards a pop where the "big" gain is 7 yards and you have to wait until almost the 4th Q to see it.

If you run the ball, you have to do everything right every play. Because every play is another chance for things to go bad or not work. If you pass you can go up the field a lot quicker with fewer plays. less chance for things to go awry. Respect the Pats for grasping they can't run, so why bother paying fealty the "establishing the run" nonsense.  

Living with a varsity OL kid with Div.1 ambitions; pass blocking is a bit less of a strain that run-blocking. If you're asking the horses to block like bulls yes, you wear a defense out, you also beat up your OL. You can also contain a  superior pass rusher if you have a plan to do it, but when you run between the tackles often it's a rugby scrum with 10 or 14 guys beating the crap out of each other. Running the ball is really great when you have a lead late in the game, otherwise it's overrated in 2015 NFL. There were points yesterday that it looked like some sort of Thanksgiving "everyone go out" game on a lawn instead of an NFL game we have been used to for 4 decades.

[Sperm Edwards]

I've been saying that all year long.  I'm not sure if that's Fitz or Gailey though.  It's almost like when Fitz sees single coverage in those situations, he cant contain himself even though he hasnt connected on one, all season long.  It's puzzling because like you said, they've got big possession receivers and Fitz is pretty damn accurate on those short intermediate throws. 

He has a direct line to Fitz's helmet, yes? (OK dumb assumption in Foxboro but go with me on this). He has to tell him as he's calling in the play that if Smith isn't all by himself or doesn't have a minimum 3 yard lead then go to his 6'5 guy underneath who NE can't - and as it turns out, didn't - cover adequately anyway.

Granted, Brady is Brady and Fitz is not Brady, but no way Brady unleashes an attempt to a covered receiver instead of taking the easy first down to his giant, right in front of his face.

So while I agree I don't know if it's more on Gailey than Fitz, I have to err on the side of Gailey since it's his responsibility to tell him not to throw it down there unless he's wide open. Then again, how do we know that isn't happening? We don't. It may be that it just takes Fitz that long to decipher whether someone's open or not. It's not unreasonable to think so, and may be why he stares guys down so hard. So I don't know. But I tend to think if the last thing Fitz hears is, "Take the underneath 9 yard easy toss to your 6'5" possession receiver unless Smith is WAY alone down there," that Fitz would throw it shorter.

[whodeawhodat]

Would be nice to see Fitz and Smith get on the same page.  He could be a real weapon the 2nd half of the season if they click.

[JustInFudge]

He has a direct line to Fitz's helmet, yes? (OK dumb assumption in Foxboro but go with me on this). He has to tell him as he's calling in the play that if Smith isn't all by himself or doesn't have a minimum 3 yard lead then go to his 6'5 guy underneath who NE can't - and as it turns out, didn't - cover adequately anyway.

Granted, Brady is Brady and Fitz is not Brady, but no way Brady unleashes an attempt to a covered receiver instead of taking the easy first down to his giant, right in front of his face.

So while I agree I don't know if it's more on Gailey than Fitz, I have to err on the side of Gailey since it's his responsibility to tell him not to throw it down there unless he's wide open. Then again, how do we know that isn't happening? We don't. It may be that it just takes Fitz that long to decipher whether someone's open or not. It's not unreasonable to think so, and may be why he stares guys down so hard. So I don't know. But I tend to think if the last thing Fitz hears is, "Take the underneath 9 yard easy toss to your 6'5" possession receiver unless Smith is WAY alone down there," that Fitz would throw it shorter.

Agreed.  And it's not like he cant just take that route out of the play call all together to not tempt Fitz just throw it up for an incompletion.  

I get those plays but not on crucial 3rd downs.  That is just idiotic. 

[Sperm Edwards]

If you run the ball, you have to do everything right every play. Because every play is another chance for things to go bad or not work. If you pass you can go up the field a lot quicker with fewer plays. less chance for things to go awry. Respect the Pats for grasping they can't run, so why bother paying fealty the "establishing the run" nonsense.  

Living with a varsity OL kid with Div.1 ambitions; pass blocking is a bit less of a strain that run-blocking. If you're asking the horses to block like bulls yes, you wear a defense out, you also beat up your OL. You can also contain a  superior pass rusher if you have a plan to do it, but when you run between the tackles often it's a rugby scrum with 10 or 14 guys beating the crap out of each other. Running the ball is really great when you have a lead late in the game, otherwise it's overrated in 2015 NFL. There were points yesterday that it looked like some sort of Thanksgiving "everyone go out" game on a lawn instead of an NFL game we have been used to for 4 decades.

Agreed, but it's more than that. If it's working - like it did in most games - then it's fine to go with that. It's also reasonable to have that as a best-chance first-choice plan since Fitz is no gunslinger. But once the situation changes - either by injury or opportunity - the gameplan must also change. They have to gain the ability to abandon a failing gameplan earlier and change to something else. 

I think back to one of the earlier games (forget if it was Colts or Eagles) when Bowles, in his presser, boasted he didn't want to let the other team dictate our gameplan. That is pigheaded, plain and simple. Coaching the game is more than just coming up with a gameplan that might work. It won't always go as planned. When it doesn't, in-game coaching is about exploiting opportunities as they present themselves, not about force-feeding a pregame plan even if it isn't working. Particularly if the main weapon to be used in said gameplan gets injured on the very first play.

[Snell41]

If you run the ball, you have to do everything right every play. Because every play is another chance for things to go bad or not work. If you pass you can go up the field a lot quicker with fewer plays. less chance for things to go awry. Respect the Pats for grasping they can't run, so why bother paying fealty the "establishing the run" nonsense.  

Living with a varsity OL kid with Div.1 ambitions; pass blocking is a bit less of a strain that run-blocking. If you're asking the horses to block like bulls yes, you wear a defense out, you also beat up your OL. You can also contain a  superior pass rusher if you have a plan to do it, but when you run between the tackles often it's a rugby scrum with 10 or 14 guys beating the crap out of each other. Running the ball is really great when you have a lead late in the game, otherwise it's overrated in 2015 NFL. There were points yesterday that it looked like some sort of Thanksgiving "everyone go out" game on a lawn instead of an NFL game we have been used to for 4 decades.

Again though you can't possibly underestimate the fact that you have Tom Brady and you have everyone else.  Tom Brady throws the ball 80% of the game.  They're undefeated.  Rest of the league that attempts 80% or higher passing attempts are like 3-100something.  That's no coincidence. 

The run game does a lot more than the obvious of trying to gain yards through it.  It keeps the safeties honest, it tires an opposing defense out, and it keeps the opposing offense off the field.  You pass the ball 80% of the time and you better score every drive.  We don't have that kind of QB or team.

[prime21]

So every time we lose we start complaining about the fact that we don't have a QB.  I thought we all knew that Fitz is not the QB of the future and only represents the best QB that we can play at the moment.  Fitz is the same guy we thought he was.  As for yesterday he thew a potential TD pass that was dropped in the 4th q at New England.  A game where our running was shut down and our #1 WR double covered for the whole game.  We cannot blame him for a loss yesterday.

 

.  

 

 

[nyjunc]

can't complain about him overall, he missed some throws and it's disappointing he can't reach the EZ from midfield(to at least have a chance at a miracle) but overall he played well enough where we should be able to win.  the other areas didn't play as well as we needed them to.

[cant wait]

To quote the great Teddy Roosevelt:

"Complaining about a problem without a solution is called whining"

So, either have the balls to come out and say you think Geno would have won that game, and should start moving forward, or come up with a solution that is better than what Fitz is giving us right now. There are a ton of teams who don't have a top 5-10 QB, if there were easy solutions everyone would have one. These posts are getting old quick. 

the jets are 5-2 so to change the QB now is not a great idea, but fitz needs to play better or geno should be an option. My advice is to unbunch your panties because fitz deserves criticism

[joewilly12]

the jets are 5-2 so to change the QB now is not a great idea, but fitz needs to play better or geno should be an option. My advice is to unbunch your panties because fitz deserves criticism

The Jets are 4-2 agree on the rest of your post. 

 

[cant wait]

No Fitz supporter is going to disagree here.  The point is he's the best we've got, so continuing to whine about it is just a waste of words.  As soon as you guys find an Aaron Rodgers let us know.

Aaron Rodgers? I'd settle for a Brian hoyer

[cant wait]

The Jets are 4-2 agree on the rest of your post. 

 

thanks Freudian slip. No reason to make a change until after the raiders game 

[joewilly12]

We invested in Geno Smith had it not been for a locker room incident we would all get to see what he can do with this new offense instead we sign an aging veteran who has won nothing his entire career and then discuss why we cant beat the Patriots. 

[Jetsfan80]

the jets are 5-2 so to change the QB now is not a great idea, but fitz needs to play better or geno should be an option. My advice is to unbunch your panties because fitz deserves criticism

thanks Freudian slip. No reason to make a change until after the raiders game 

No reason to make a change at all.  Fitz has been fine.  This thread happening every week for a non-issue is getting very old.

[dbatesman]

thanks Freudian slip. No reason to make a change until after the raiders game 

Yeah, I think Bill Walsh once said 5-2/4-3 was the ideal place to switch out a QB.

[CrazyCarl40]

Aaron Rodgers? I'd settle for a Brian hoyer

Brian Hoyer got smoked by the Dolphins yesterday. He's not better than Fitz. Aim higher. 

[EM31]

There are about 3-5 people making the noise here and they will continue to make the same noise after every loss.

[cant wait]

Brian Hoyer got smoked by the Dolphins yesterday. He's not better than Fitz. Aim higher. 

that dolphins team has been playing lights out since they canned philbin. Tannehill had a perfect QBR yesterday, 18/19 passing 282 yards 4 TD. That is a team to be feared. Hoyer is not a great QB but he's not just strictly a game manager either

[Beerfish]

Hoyer.........any and all cred just evaporated.

[cant wait]

Hoyer.........any and all cred just evaporated.

okay so tell me how he hasn't been playing much better than Fitzpatrick this year

[Jetsfan80]

okay so tell me how he hasn't been playing much better than Fitzpatrick this year

He's not on the roster, so it's irrelevant.  Both are better than Geno Smith. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 straight games without a pick 6.  Anyone want to estimate how many Geno would have by now?

[CrazyCarl40]

that dolphins team has been playing lights out since they canned philbin. Tannehill had a perfect QBR yesterday, 18/19 passing 282 yards 4 TD. That is a team to be feared. Hoyer is not a great QB but he's not just strictly a game manager either

Hoyer is a game manager through and through. His picture is next to game manager in the dictionary. He's not going to win you games. Hoyer is not a step up from Fitz. Plain and simple. 

[cant wait]

Hoyer is a game manager through and through. His picture is next to game manager in the dictionary. He's not going to win you games. Hoyer is not a step up from Fitz. Plain and simple. 

hoyer can lead a team to a win when they are trailing in the 4th quarter. When was the last time Fitzpatrick has done that?

[joewilly12]

6 straight games without a pick 6.  Anyone want to estimate how many Geno would have by now?

Geno Smith put his body on the line to position the Jets for a 30-27 overtime win on Sunday at MetLife. Joe Camporeale/USA TODAY Sports