Good Teams Don't Allow Stud young Players to Reach FA (Harrison/ Wilkerson)

[Shockwave]

If everybody knows what Fletcher Cox is going to get, why don't Wilkerson and his agent?  Do you think they are sitting there going - "Boy, I hope the Jets don't make us an offer before Fletcher Cox signs!"  - is that a thing?  These guys know the worth and what offers he would get. 

The best thing that could ever happen for Wilkerson is for an inferior 3-4 end like Fletcher Cox to get a 100m dollar contract. Most deals are 6 years so the assumption is Fletcher Cox would be getting 15m a year on this deal. Its been reported by multiple news outlets that these were the numbers they are talking about. 

How does this impact the Jets? As mentioned earlier the best comps for Wilkerson are Hayward/Jordon at 11m per year. They have similar numbers, age, and position. From all news reports the Jets have not been willing to meet those demands(10-11m per year).

If an inferior comparable like Fletcher Cox (3-4 end) gets 15m a year theres no Chance Mo or any decent agent would consider 11m a year. It would effectively set the market and kill any talks with Jets which would lead to the tag and trade scenario. 

Tons of post here including my own. The entire game now is Mo's comparable contracts signed this past year or two and Fletcher Cox's as it sets a defined market for him. If you follow overthecap or follow all the cap sites thats how this game goes. 

How the "Good Teams" beat this is trusting their own scouting/opinions and signing there players young while they have leverage. Thats how you'll see Dion Lewis or Woodhead before him signed for peanuts. How the Eagles have historically signed there young players for valuable contracts etc. 

[drdetroit]

Def well said. Keep in mind the cap has risen tremendously. Teams have 75m in cap space. No one is in "cap hell" meaning if the Jets had wanted to get something done they can. 

jets aren't in cap hell but they probably can't afford to both resign Wilk and resign Snacks, Fitz plus we have holes at OLB and RT.

[Savage69]

The best thing that could ever happen for Wilkerson is for an inferior 3-4 end like Fletcher Cox to get a 100m dollar contract. Most deals are 6 years so the assumption is Fletcher Cox would be getting 15m a year on this deal. Its been reported by multiple news outlets that these were the numbers they are talking about. 

How does this impact the Jets? As mentioned earlier the best comps for Wilkerson are Hayward/Jordon at 11m per year. They have similar numbers, age, and position. From all news reports the Jets have not been willing to meet those demands(10-11m per year).

If an inferior comparable like Fletcher Cox (3-4 end) gets 15m a year theres no Chance Mo or any decent agent would consider 11m a year. It would effectively set the market and kill any talks with Jets which would lead to the tag and trade scenario. 

Tons of post here including my own. The entire game now is Mo's comparable contracts signed this past year or two and Fletcher Cox's as it sets a defined market for him. If you follow overthecap or follow all the cap sites thats how this game goes. 

How the "Good Teams" beat this is trusting their own scouting/opinions and signing there players young while they have leverage. Thats how you'll see Dion Lewis or Woodhead before him signed for peanuts. How the Eagles have historically signed there young players for valuable contracts etc. 

It depends what the Jets wants to spend on a position they are loaded at.. Look at the Pats they have never paid Brady at the top scale for QB's even though he has made 6 Bowls.. This coming year he will make 15 million..

http://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/

[Shockwave]

The thread title is simply a false statement. Good teams do this all the time when they feel their cap room is better spent elsewhere (or on multiple players), particularly if they already have starter-worthy replacements. Sometimes it turns out to be a bad move, but the good teams also know when to not pay top dollar for a player.

How many good, young WRs has Pittsburgh either traded away or allowed to hit FA? From 2010-2014 they let go of Holmes, Wallace, and Sanders. 

Denver lets go of more than one young stud player every year: Elvis Dumervil, Eric Decker, Orlando Franklin, Julius Thomas off the top of my head. Oh yeah, and Tim Tebow. 

KC let go of their center because he commanded a $9M/year salary in FA. Then they won 10 games without Jamaal Charles. Year before that they let go of Branden Albert.

Seattle parted ways with 3 starting offensive linemen from their SB winning team, and is about to lose another. Plus Byron Maxwell, Golden Tate

Washington let go of Orakpo and went to the playoffs.

These are only some of the more recent ones from just a handful of teams and I'm sure I didn't list all their lost FAs either. 

Good teams pick and choose, and if a player is replaceable - particularly if the downgrade isn't like a fall off a cliff downgrade - then you just don't pay him QB money.

I certainly wouldn't cry if they retained him, but he isn't irreplaceable. The downgrade (if there even is one) from him to Richardson is massively outweighed by the $15M worth of upgrades the team could make elsewhere (if they spend smart).

JMO

Great Response.

However Just as you somewhat added to the statement : "When they feel their cap AND if have starter worthy replacements" . I would have to add : For the most Part Good Teams Don't Allow their young Studs at Premium Positions to reach FA". 

While I agree with you about system players which are allowed to leave all the time: Eric Decker, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker ( Basically any Receiver from an Elite QB) straight up Difference makers at key positions rarely get out to Free Agency before there second contract. 

Of the Players you mentioned only 2 could even be talked about as "Young Stud Players at premium positions". 

Regarding Elvis Dumervil him leaving the Broncos is after his second contract when he was approaching 30. Not only that but he only left because of his idiot agent who he had to fire. So this clearly is not a young stud leaving early like a 26 year Wilkerson before his second contract. 

Dumervil's contract specified that if he were on the roster at 2:00 PM MT (4:00 PM ET) on March 15, 2013, his $12 million salary for the 2013 season would be fully guaranteed. The Broncos, looking to free up room under the salary cap, reached an agreement to restructure his contract to reduce his 2013 salary cap hit. However, Dumervil and his agent faxed the paperwork six minutes late at 2:06 PM MT, which caused the Broncos to release Dumervil rather than allow the $12 million to be guaranteed. As a result, while the Broncos could have re-signed Dumervil as soon as Saturday, March 16, they accrued $4.869 million in "dead money" against their 2013 cap,^[10] in addition to any salary cap hits from the new contract. The snafu led Dumervil to fire his agent.^[11]

Brandon Albert is a clear example of an average team screwing up the process of locking up there own players while there young similar to the Jets. Premium Position, Played extremely well and still young. Losing him to Miami for under 10m a year was a huge blunder. 

Its extremely rare players like him are not extended and its what separates the top teams in the league from the average ones like Kansas City. Instead of paying homegrown talent at a premium position under 10m a year they went and were forced to draft Eric Fisher Number 1 overall. A guy till this day that lost his job and hopes to "Be a good Left tackle one day" heading into year 3. 

Letting young studs go and "Hoping" to replace them with draft picks" simply is Fool's game. If you have a Franchise QB we all know your WR's and skill positions can be replaced easily as history shows. But in terms of the Blue Chip Premium Positions - The statistics show half of all first rounders bust and even moreso later on. Even the ones that look great like Sheldon Richardson or Aldon Smith could be suspended at any time and can't be relied on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beerfish]

The best thing that could ever happen for Wilkerson is for an inferior 3-4 end like Fletcher Cox to get a 100m dollar contract. Most deals are 6 years so the assumption is Fletcher Cox would be getting 15m a year on this deal. Its been reported by multiple news outlets that these were the numbers they are talking about. 

How does this impact the Jets? As mentioned earlier the best comps for Wilkerson are Hayward/Jordon at 11m per year. They have similar numbers, age, and position. From all news reports the Jets have not been willing to meet those demands(10-11m per year).

If an inferior comparable like Fletcher Cox (3-4 end) gets 15m a year theres no Chance Mo or any decent agent would consider 11m a year. It would effectively set the market and kill any talks with Jets which would lead to the tag and trade scenario. 

Tons of post here including my own. The entire game now is Mo's comparable contracts signed this past year or two and Fletcher Cox's as it sets a defined market for him. If you follow overthecap or follow all the cap sites thats how this game goes. 

How the "Good Teams" beat this is trusting their own scouting/opinions and signing there players young while they have leverage. Thats how you'll see Dion Lewis or Woodhead before him signed for peanuts. How the Eagles have historically signed there young players for valuable contracts etc. 

All high end DT's are now worth a gazzilion dollars because of suh insanity?  You are right about the wilk camp pointing to cox to set a price just as the jets will point to the other players you mentioned to set a price.

I also wouldn't make a blanket statement about good teams and signing their players soon.  Teams get burned on that as well and in many cases teams need to use those cheap years for players in their cap strategy.  Also Lewis and Woodhead are players cast off by other teams as RB's and are cheap to lock up. Players that are 1st rounders making a quick impact and trending upwards are not singing cheap long term deals.

[Shockwave]

It depends what the Jets wants to spend on a position they are loaded at.. Look at the Pats they have never paid Brady at the top scale for QB's even though he has made 6 Bowls.. This coming year he will make 15 million..

http://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/

Honest question:  Are you really counting on Sheldon Richardson?

Sheldon Richardson has failed drug test multiple times. He has been suspended 4 games. The Next suspension will be 1 year (Josh Gordon Territory). 

If Snacks/Wilkerson walk or are traded Our Dline is ONLY Sheldon and Leonard Williams. 

Is anyone here really okay with the fact that we are 1 blunt away from our Dline going from the best in the league to ONLY Leonard Williams ? 

In Sheldon's "Guilty Plea" in which he has not been suspended yet:

“There were no drugs found in the car, but anybody who takes a look at the situation knows what’s going on there,” Lohmar said. “The odor, according to the officer, was such that it was a fresh odor. The weed had just burned. I think you can reasonably assume that had been taken place while they were driving and somewhere between that and the time they were pulled over whatever was in the car was thrown from the car. We don’t know that, obviously.”

Note:

-Sheldon is driving 143 Mph and smoking with a 12 year old evading police. 

-He did this AFTER being caught by the league for smoking weed TWICE. 

Yes He will be obviously will be suspended again. And does anyone really think all of a sudden hes done with pot/etc? What happens if you sign this guy long term at 15m a year(Sheldon wants Watt Money) and he's gets suspended for the year. 

Easy Prediction: Sheldon will be suspended for at least 4 games this year again. He will consider holding out next offseason. Either the Jets trade him, or he gets to Free Agency. This guy is not someone that will be here long term. Did they just legalize pot in NY?

The Jets Dline will simply be Leonard Williams after next year. Thats Fine - I guess we can always draft more Dlineman in the first round. 

[Savage69]

 

Honest question:  Are you really counting on Sheldon Richardson?

Sheldon Richardson has failed drug test multiple times. He has been suspended 4 games. The Next suspension will be 1 year (Josh Gordon Territory). 

If Snacks/Wilkerson walk or are traded Our Dline is ONLY Sheldon and Leonard Williams. 

Is anyone here really okay with the fact that we are 1 blunt away from our Dline going from the best in the league to ONLY Leonard Williams ? 

In Sheldon's "Guilty Plea" in which he has not been suspended yet:

Note 2 things People:

-Sheldon is driving 143 Mph and smoking with a 12 year old evading police. 

-He did this AFTER being caught by the league for smoking weed TWICE. 

Yes He will be obviously will be suspended again. And does anyone really think all of a sudden hes done with pot/etc? What happens if you sign this guy long term at 15m a year(Sheldon wants Watt Money) and he's gets suspended for the year. 

Easy Prediction: Sheldon will be suspended for at least 4 games this year again. He will consider holding out next offseason. Either the Jets trade him, or he gets to Free Agency. This guy is not someone that will be here long term. Did they just legalize pot in NY?

How do you know Sheldon would demand Watt money?? Or did you mean Mo?? LOL Sheldon doesn't have the trade value at this point in time that Mo does it's that simple.. Plus forget the broken leg Mo missed games with turf toe in 2014 and it seemed to bother him last year as well.. For some players it stays around as long as they play so that's something to consider in a long term highly paid contract.. It's a great board debate topic but in the end I'm for whatever Mac and Bowles decide whats best for the team long term..

[Raideraholic]

It makes more sense to let Willerson walk, resign Fitz and Snacks, and upgrade at RT and OLB by signing a combination of Joe Barksdale and Bruce Irvin.

There is no guarantee the Jets are going to be able to get Bruce Irvin in Fa.  There are three teams that play the same kind of defense as Seattle, and have a coaching staff that had a working relationship with. ( 1. Atlanta - probably where he would like to go but don't have the biggest need or the biggest cap space. 2. Oakland-,have the cap space , and the need( would play Sslb and be ask to do exactly what he does for Seattle defense. His age 29 wouldn't be a negative as they need his money three year from now to re-sign K Mack.3. Jaguars - they have the cap space, and the need.     No state income tax, and aren't afraid to throw big money  at freeagents- Might be the team to watch.  His age (29) might be the be the only reason they don't Sign him.

[drdetroit]

There is no guarantee the Jets are going to be able to get Bruce Irvin in Fa.  There are three teams that play the same kind of defense as Seattle, and have a coaching staff that had a working relationship with. ( 1. Atlanta - probably where he would like to go but don't have the biggest need or the biggest cap space. 2. Oakland-,have the cap space , and the need( would play Sslb and be ask to do exactly what he does for Seattle defense. His age 29 wouldn't be a negative as they need his money three year from now to re-sign K Mack.3. Jaguars - they have the cap space, and the need.     No state income tax, and aren't afraid to throw big money  at freeagents- Might be the team to watch.  His age (29) might be the be the only reason they don't Sign him.

all the reports coming out of Seattle are that Irvin is leaving.  They locked up Wilson, Sherman, Chancelor, Lynch and Wagner.

 

as far as Raiders and Jags go we have an edge which is we're a win now team

[drdetroit]

Besides Bruce Irvin the Jets have other options at OLB:

 

Aldon Smith - suspended but will be back in mid-November and is all pro

 

Mark Barron - actually played well once he changed position to OLB

Also available are nick perry and obrien schofield 

[Shockwave]

How do you know Sheldon would demand Watt money?? Or did you mean Mo?? LOL Sheldon doesn't have the trade value at this point in time that Mo does it's that simple.. Plus forget the broken leg Mo missed games with turf toe in 2014 and it seemed to bother him last year as well.. For some players it stays around as long as they play so that's something to consider in a long term highly paid contract.. It's a great board debate topic but in the end I'm for whatever Mac and Bowles decide whats best for the team long term..

Hes said it in several articles. Actually he wants more then Watt Money:

 

 

Sheldon Richardson: “We want Suh money”

By MICHAEL JAYCOX - 

 

June 10, 2015

0

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The Jets thought they had a problem when one of their star defensive tackles demanded a new mega deal, but, really, they should have considered themselves lucky.

Because now they have two.

Yesterday, Mohammad Wilkerson’s partner in crime, Sheldon Richardson, spoke on his teammate’s contract status, and he made it clear that they’re both worth all they can get.

“He’s worth that penny,” Richardson said, via the New York Daily News. “And you know what penny I’m talking about. . . . We don’t just want J.J. Watt money. We want it all. We want (Ndamukong) Suh money

[BroadwayJets]

 

Honest question:  Are you really counting on Sheldon Richardson?

Sheldon Richardson has failed drug test multiple times. He has been suspended 4 games. The Next suspension will be 1 year (Josh Gordon Territory). 

If Snacks/Wilkerson walk or are traded Our Dline is ONLY Sheldon and Leonard Williams. 

Is anyone here really okay with the fact that we are 1 blunt away from our Dline going from the best in the league to ONLY Leonard Williams ? 

In Sheldon's "Guilty Plea" in which he has not been suspended yet:

Note:

-Sheldon is driving 143 Mph and smoking with a 12 year old evading police. 

-He did this AFTER being caught by the league for smoking weed TWICE. 

Yes He will be obviously will be suspended again. And does anyone really think all of a sudden hes done with pot/etc? What happens if you sign this guy long term at 15m a year(Sheldon wants Watt Money) and he's gets suspended for the year. 

Easy Prediction: Sheldon will be suspended for at least 4 games this year again. He will consider holding out next offseason. Either the Jets trade him, or he gets to Free Agency. This guy is not someone that will be here long term. Did they just legalize pot in NY?

The Jets Dline will simply be Leonard Williams after next year. Thats Fine - I guess we can always draft more Dlineman in the first round. 

You realize Mo is asking for more than Watt money, right?

[Savage69]

 

Hes said it in several articles. Actually he wants more then Watt Money:

 

How serious was he?? If he wants Watt or Suh money for himself and Mo I package both of them and ship them to the highest bidders.. The turn around on the team this season was due to the offense not the D which gave up 5 points a game more then the 2009 team that didn't have a Mo or Sheldon on it.. That year the D did make a big difference.. Yet we did manage a 4-12 year on a team that had Mo and Sheldon on it..

[Raideraholic]

all the reports coming out of Seattle are that Irvin is leaving.  They locked up Wilson, Sherman, Chancelor, Lynch and Wagner.

 

as far as Raiders and Jags go we have an edge which is we're a win now team

Do you really think Fa's see  the Jets as a win now team( much tougher schedule next season).  Bruce Irvin has only played in a 4-3 defense, and is going to be comfortable at 29 to play in a different scheme. ( has never played for Bowles).  Bruce Irvin will be playing for any of the three teams I mention.  Expect it to be the Jaguars,  or the Raiders.

[Raideraholic]

Besides Bruce Irvin the Jets have other options at OLB:

 

Aldon Smith - suspended but will be back in mid-November and is all pro

 

Mark Barron - actually played well once he changed position to OLB

Also available are nick perry and obrien schofield 

Aldon Smith isn't leaving the Bay Area.    That's where his support group  is located. The Raiders want him back, and he wants to be back.( appreciates the fact that the Raiders took a chance on him .  Made a lot of friends on that Raider team.  

 No guarantee that he isn't going to screw up before he gets reinstated.( very likely scenario with his past).Why the Raiders have to make plans like he isn't an option .( he stays clean than you sign him , and figure out how to make it work.

 

The other Fa's you mention don't have a handle on Jets chance of signing them.

The Jets have better chance of addressing that pass rushing Olb in the draft.( especially get another high pick for M Wilkerson.

[drdetroit]

Aldon Smith isn't leaving the Bay Area.    That's where his support group  is located. The Raiders want him back, and he wants to be back.( appreciates the fact that the Raiders took a chance on him .  Made a lot of friends on that Raider team.  

 No guarantee that he isn't going to screw up before he gets reinstated.( very likely scenario with his past).Why the Raiders have to make plans like he isn't an option .( he stays clean than you sign him , and figure out how to make it work.

 

The other Fa's you mention don't have a handle on Jets chance of signing them.

The Jets have better chance of addressing that pass rushing Olb in the draft.( especially get another high pick for M Wilkerson.

you have absolutely no evidence that the jets can't sign any FA.  If the jets offer Aldon Smith a two year deal at $8 mil per season he's a jet because the raiders were only willing to offer a 1- year deal before the suspension

 

There's a solid chance the Rams let Barron go because Ogletree is coming back from injury and is a more traditional OLB

[Shockwave]

You realize Mo is asking for more than Watt money, right?

Please tell me how you know this? I realize many people here are saying this but that doesn't make it true. Its just a bunch of people making assumptions. 

There are a bunch of articles directly from Mo's agent in which he states he is NOT looking for Watt money from this year. Ill never post often here like I did on JI but if I'm referencing something its likely bc theres been ton's of articles/etc on it. I have no intention of just flapping BS to win some internet debate. 

See Below:::;

What's the contract market for Jets' Muhammad Wilkerson?

 

 

 

 

 

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Defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson (96) in the rehab area after tweaking his hamstring on Sunday as the New York Jets hold practice during training camp at the Florham Park training facility. Florham Park ,NJ 8/4/15 (Amanda Marzullo | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com)

Amanda Marzullo | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

 

 

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By Dom Cosentino | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com 
Email the author | Follow on Twitter 
on August 10, 2015 at 1:50 PM, updated August 10, 2015 at 1:59 PM

 

 

Muhammad Wilkerson has been out for more than a week with a hamstring injury, but the larger, looming story with him concerns his contract, and his future with the Jets. Namely: What kind of long-term deal might Wilkerson be able to command at this point?

First thing's first: Wilkerson is under contract for 2015, at a salary of $6.97 million. Beyond that? Nothing, though the Jets do have the option of giving him the franchise or transition tag next year, which would make six seasons in which he will have been under team control without negotiating the terms of what he might earn.

Wilkerson's camp has set a deadline of the start of the regular season, at which point he intends to honor his 2015 terms before returning to the bargaining table after the season ends. Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan has said on several occasions that the Jets would like to keep Wilkerson, and that the franchise has the resources to do so, even after their offseason spending spree on outside free agents.

So what can Wilkerson expect? The league's highest-paid 3-4 defensive end is the Texans' J.J. Watt, whose deal—signed last September—calls for roughly $50 million in guaranteed money and a max length of six years, $100 million. Watt is far and away the best 3-4 end in the league.

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PLUS: Why haven't the Jets signed Evan Mathis?

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But Wilkerson, who graded out as the third-best in the NFL at the position last year, according to Pro Football Focus, is in that tier right below him. The same goes for the Steelers' Cameron Heyward (graded sixth by PFF), with the Chargers' Corey Liguet (25th) maybe a notch below that. Both Heyward and Liguet got long-term deals this offseason, as did the Saints' Cameron Jordan, who plays mainly in a 4-3, and is not quite of Wilkerson's caliber, even if he did have eight sacks in 2014 to Wilkerson's seven.

Heyward, Liguet, and Jordan all got relatively similar deals, though all of their deals were structured differently. Let's take a look, if for no other reasons that to see the different ways the Jets and Wilkerson might want to proceed.

Cameron Heyward, Steelers

Max length/total value: 5 years, $59.25 million

Total full guarantees: $15 million (all payable in 2015)

Signing bonus (fully guaranteed): $12 million

Full guarantees after 2015: $0

Injury guarantees after 2015: $0

Annual roster bonuses: $3 million (2015), $5 million (2016), $3 million (2017)

Annual salaries and bonuses (excluding signing bonus): $4 million (2015), $8 million (2016), $8 million (2017), $9 million (2018), $8.75 million (2019), $9.5 million (2020)

Cap charges: $6.4 million (2015), $10.4 million (2016), $10.4 million (2017), $11.4 million (2018), $11.15 million (2019), $9.5 million (2020)

Analysis: Heyward's deal is the most straightforward, with the signing bonus accounting for much of the fully guaranteed money, much of the cap impact coming after this year, and roster bonuses padding it out in 2016 and 2017.

Source: Overthecap.com

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Corey Liuget, Chargers

Max length/total value: 5 years, $51.25 million

Average annual value: $10.25 million

Total full guarantees: $13.977 million (all payable in 2015)

Signing bonus (fully guaranteed): $7.5 million

Full guarantees after 2015: $0

Injury guarantees (including 2015): $30.477 million

Annual roster bonuses: $5.477 million (2015), $5.5 million (2016), $1.25 million (2018), $1.25 million (2019), $1.25 million (2020)

Annual salaries and bonuses (excluding signing bonus): $6.477 million (2015), $8.5 million (2016), $8 million (2017), $8 million (2018), $8.75 million (2018), $9.5 million (2020)

Cap charges: $7.977 million (2015), $10 million (2016), $9.5 million (2017), $9.5 million (2018), $10.25 million (2019), $9.5 million (2020) 

Analysis: Liguet is getting less fully guaranteed than the others, but he's got a substantial amount guaranteed against injury, which can be important. His annual salaries and cap charges are pretty consistent, too.

Source: Overthecap.com

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Cameron Jordan, Saints

Max length/total value: 5 years, $55 million

Average annual (max) value: $11 million (can rise to $12 million with escalators)

Total full guarantees (skill and injury): $22.969 million (all payable by 2016)

Signing bonus (fully guaranteed): $16 million

Total full guarantees after 2015: $6 million (payable on fifth day of 2016 league year)

Injury guarantees: $20.469 million

Annual roster bonuses: $6 million (2015), $800,000 (2018), $1 million (2019), $1 million (2020)

Escalators: $1.25 million per year ($5 million total) in sack incentives from 2017-20

Annual salaries and bonuses (excluding signing bonus): $969,000 (2015), $9.6 million (2016), $7.1 million (2017), $9.3 million (2018), $9.1 million (2019), $9.9 million (2020)

Cap charges: $4.169 million (2015), $12.8 million (2016), $10.3 million (2017), $12.5 million (2018), $12.3 million (2019), $9.9 million (2020)

Analysis: Jordan has the biggest full guarantee of the bunch, including a $6 million guarantee for skill and injury for next year. Like Liguet, there are roster bonuses that can pad the value of Jordan's deal, and the sack incentives could drive the contract's total value as high as $60 million, if Jordan were to play out the life of the deal.

Yes this is from earlier in the season but the com parables don't change here.  The biggest factor that may come into play is Fletcher Cox's contract as I have mentioned several times. Its all about the comparables......

[drdetroit]

 

Please tell me how you know this? I realize many people here are saying this but that doesn't make it true. Its just a bunch of people making assumptions. 

There are a bunch of articles directly from Mo's agent in which he states he is NOT looking for Watt money from this year. Ill never post often here like I did on JI but if I'm referencing something its likely bc theres been ton's of articles/etc on it. I have no intention of just flapping BS to win some internet debate. 

See Below:::;

Yes this is from earlier in the season but the com parables don't change here.  The biggest factor that may come into play is Fletcher Cox's contract as I have mentioned several times. Its all about the comparables......

if Cox gets anything close to $100 mil from the Eagles say bye bye to Wilk

[shuler82]

If the Jets choose to re-sign Wilk, you're probably looking at a stagnant year two for the new regime. Even if they cut Cro and restructure Brick, the money needed for Wilk and bringing back Fitz will eat up most of their cap. And with holes at RB, TE, OLB, ILB, DT and on the OL, I'd expect the Jets to be very active in trading back and accumulating picks on draft day. 

Of course you never know.. maybe Amaro, D Smith, and a few of their young linemen make the leap... and we have a few draft picks who step right in.. and it's not a lost season.

 

I think long term signing Wilk is the safest, probably 'right' move...  but for 2016 it will mean a long of low cost vets/youngsters via-ing for substantial playing time.

 

[Shockwave]

If the Jets choose to re-sign Wilk, you're probably looking at a stagnant year two for the new regime. Even if they cut Cro and restructure Brick, the money needed for Wilk and bringing back Fitz will eat up most of their cap. And with holes at RB, TE, OLB, ILB, DT and on the OL, I'd expect the Jets to be very active in trading back and accumulating picks on draft day. 

Of course you never know.. maybe Amaro, D Smith, and a few of their young linemen make the leap... and we have a few draft picks who step right in.. and it's not a lost season.

I think long term signing Wilk is the safest, probably 'right' move...  but for 2016 it will mean a long of low cost vets/youngsters via-ing for substantial playing time.

 

Last Post from me now regarding this topic just to clear the air. 

1. Next Year in 2017 we are going to have ALOT of cap room. 

Here's 2018. The Salary Cap will likely be 160-165 by that time. This is counting Cro who will be gone. 

We are going to have 100m in cap room. We literally have no one signed. Not only that - The contracts below are all extremely cuttable if we want. 

We are absolutely in great shape financially. Your going to start hearing things like the Jets have to sign people just to be in regulation with the salary cap floor. So when you hear people say things will be tight for the Jets in the future - Those people have no idea what there talking about. 

New York Jets

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• 2015
• 2016
• 2017
• 2018
• 2019

Total Cap Number: $61,975,265 (Top 51: $61,975,265)

Offense: $21,386,921 Defense: $40,588,344 Special: $0

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Contracted Players

Player (11 total)	Base Salary (Guaranteed)	Bonuses				Cap Number		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1) Cut (post-June 1) Trade
		Prorated	Roster	Workout	Other
Darrelle Revis	$10,060,530	$833,333	$0	$0	$0	$10,893,836		$1,666,667	$9,227,169
Eric Decker	$7,500,000	$1,500,000	$0	$0	$0	$9,000,000		$1,500,000	$7,500,000
Antonio Cromartie	$9,000,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$9,000,000		$0	$9,000,000
Buster Skrine	$6,000,000	$1,250,000	$0	$0	$0	$7,250,000		$1,250,000	$6,000,000
Marcus Gilchrist	$6,000,000	$625,000	$0	$0	$0	$6,625,000		$625,000	$6,000,000
Leonard Williams	$2,975,574 $2,975,574	$2,952,430	$0	$0	$0	$5,928,004		$5,928,004	$0
James Carpenter	$4,450,000	$875,000	$250,000	$0	$0	$5,575,000		$875,000	$4,700,000
Jeremy Kerley	$3,500,000	$600,000	$0	$0	$0	$4,100,000		$600,000	$3,500,000
Devin Smith	$1,235,784	$632,713	$0	$0	$0	$1,868,497		$632,713	$1,235,784
Lorenzo Mauldin	$723,000	$168,504	$0	$0	$0	$891,504		$168,504	$723,000
Bryce Petty	$705,000	$138,424	$0	$0	$0	$843,424		$138,424	$705,000

[BroadwayJets]

 

Please tell me how you know this? I realize many people here are saying this but that doesn't make it true. Its just a bunch of people making assumptions. 

There are a bunch of articles directly from Mo's agent in which he states he is NOT looking for Watt money from this year. Ill never post often here like I did on JI but if I'm referencing something its likely bc theres been ton's of articles/etc on it. I have no intention of just flapping BS to win some internet debate. 

See Below:::;

Yes this is from earlier in the season but the com parables don't change here.  The biggest factor that may come into play is Fletcher Cox's contract as I have mentioned several times. Its all about the comparables......

I'm positive you can find articles of Mo declining extensions from earlier in 2015 just as easily as you found that one. Mac offered him $12 apy iirc. Declined and said something of the sort "I feel as if I'm worth more than that" and proceeded to hold out of OTAs. 

[SenorGato]

Mo is not even close to the most important player on the team.   Shocking anyone thinks that.   

If Mo has a crap game team can easily still win.  

If QB, Lt, C, WR or CB have a crap game then team loses.  That's what most important player on team means. 

I'm aware of your opinion already Joe, and it's still wrong. Mo is, and has been for years, the most valuable player on the team. He is among the most valuable non-QBs in the NFL actually.

It makes more sense to let Willerson walk, resign Fitz and Snacks, and upgrade at RT and OLB by signing a combination of Joe Barksdale and Bruce Irvin.

It absolutely does not make more sense, but it's an option. A lesser option, but an option. Extending Wilkerson does not eliminate FAs like Barksdale and Irvin.

[Shockwave]

I'm positive you can find articles of Mo declining extensions from earlier in 2015 just as easily as you found that one. Mac offered him $12 apy iirc. Declined and said something of the sort "I feel as if I'm worth more than that" and proceeded to hold out of OTAs. 

Either find the article or what you say is BS just like the rest of the guys throwing around numbers without any proof. 

Also 12 is not JJ watt Money and the Guarantees may had made the difference in that deal. As you can see above While Jordon, Heyward and Liuget have similar numbers the standard guarantees, structure and injury guarantees are very different. 

JJ Watt received 31 million in guarantees. As long as hes on the roster at the beginning of this year he was guaranteed an additional 21m. Thats a total guarantee of 52 million in the first 3 years. 

Wilkerson is not getting that. Hes not asking for that. People that think hes getting/asking for JJ Watt Money (16 per year, with 52 million in guarantees) are just speculating. 

 

[Joe Jets fan]

I'm aware of your opinion already Joe, and it's still wrong. Mo is, and has been for years, the most valuable player on the team. He is among the most valuable non-QBs in the NFL actually.

It absolutely does not make more sense, but it's an option. A lesser option, but an option. Extending Wilkerson does not eliminate FAs like Barksdale and Irvin.

Your delusional

[SenorGato]

Your delusional

Probably the closest you come to a correct opinion, but unfortunately does nothing to make your opinion on Wilkerson any less wrong.

[Joe Jets fan]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Probably the closest you come to a correct opinion, but unfortunately does nothing to make your opinion on Wilkerson any less wrong.

Not possible to debate someone that's delusional.  

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Not possible to debate someone that's delusional.  

I know, that's why you and I don't debate. I tell you you're wrong, explain why, offer evidence, and you respond with things like "your delusional." 

Note that none of this makes your opinion on Wilkerson's value to the roster the correct one or even a well thought out one. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On February 2, 2016 at 5:11 PM, JiF said:

I dont think you can make a general statement like that and say it always applied.  It's certainly situation based.  Sure, teams let players walk all the time and are fine.  As I said earlier, teams with QB's obviously make it easier to take the blow of letting talent walk.  However, of the examples you've given and others I've read in this thread, I think the point that most people are missing is that Mo is the best player on the team.  

None of the guys you listed (and the other examples) were referencing the best player on the roster.  So the Jets situation is unique.  Not only is he the best player on the team, they dont have a QB either.  And we're talking about a team that is going to more game on D as opposed to O.  So maybe he's not irreplaceable but it's certainly not going to make them better. 

 

I didn't make a general statement, only a statement of fact: it happens plenty. 

That he is (or that you feel he is) the best player on the team changes nothing. The fact is the Jets are fully capable of being a 4-win team with a healthy Wilkerson AND with healthy studs on the line with him at the same time. In other words, he's no good enough to be the best player on a team if that team has aspirations of getting to a Super Bowl. They'll need better and/or more effective players.

He's a terrific ball player. I truly like him on the team. There are surely going to be individual games here or there where I'd wish he was still here. And he still isn't nearly worth a $15M/year deal to his Jets team.

This is the bed that is made when the GM of a team with him and Richardson decides to draft another (but more gifted/talented) Wilkerson clone with the 6th overall pick in the country. 

You start Williams and Richardson and use Mo's money on a far bigger upgrade elsewhere than Mo would be over either of the other two. 

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I didn't make a general statement, only a statement of fact: it happens plenty. 

While I am 100% with you on D'Brick, teams do not let their best players go plenty. The ones that do tend to suck and suck for years.

 

[Raideraholic]

6 hours ago, drdetroit said:

you have absolutely no evidence that the jets can't sign any FA.  If the jets offer Aldon Smith a two year deal at $8 mil per season he's a jet because the raiders were only willing to offer a 1- year deal before the suspension

 

There's a solid chance the Rams let Barron go because Ogletree is coming back from injury and is a more traditional OLB

There is zero chance the Jets get Aldon Smith because he isn't leaving the Bay Area.( that is a fact). Again his support group is there.  He might not play with anyone as there is always a chance he gets caught doing something he shouldn't have.( get lifetime suspension) .   

The Raider only gave him a one year prove it contract because they took a chance on him.   The Raiders like what they gave him, and Aldon Smith enjoyed his time with the Raiders( made a lot of friends).    If he stays clean and reinstated he will be back with the Raiders.

Again the other players I have no clue about, and can't comment on.

http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/article/GM-McKenzie-says-Aldon-Smith-is-in-Raiders-6594609.php

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/17/aldon-smith-looks-forward-to-rejoining-the-raiders-in-2016/

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, Shockwave said:

 

Great Response.

However Just as you somewhat added to the statement : "When they feel their cap AND if have starter worthy replacements" . I would have to add : For the most Part Good Teams Don't Allow their young Studs at Premium Positions to reach FA". 

While I agree with you about system players which are allowed to leave all the time: Eric Decker, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker ( Basically any Receiver from an Elite QB) straight up Difference makers at key positions rarely get out to Free Agency before there second contract. 

Of the Players you mentioned only 2 could even be talked about as "Young Stud Players at premium positions". 

Regarding Elvis Dumervil him leaving the Broncos is after his second contract when he was approaching 30. Not only that but he only left because of his idiot agent who he had to fire. So this clearly is not a young stud leaving early like a 26 year Wilkerson before his second contract. 

Brandon Albert is a clear example of an average team screwing up the process of locking up there own players while there young similar to the Jets. Premium Position, Played extremely well and still young. Losing him to Miami for under 10m a year was a huge blunder. 

Its extremely rare players like him are not extended and its what separates the top teams in the league from the average ones like Kansas City. Instead of paying homegrown talent at a premium position under 10m a year they went and were forced to draft Eric Fisher Number 1 overall. A guy till this day that lost his job and hopes to "Be a good Left tackle one day" heading into year 3. 

Letting young studs go and "Hoping" to replace them with draft picks" simply is Fool's game. If you have a Franchise QB we all know your WR's and skill positions can be replaced easily as history shows. But in terms of the Blue Chip Premium Positions - The statistics show half of all first rounders bust and even moreso later on. Even the ones that look great like Sheldon Richardson or Aldon Smith could be suspended at any time and can't be relied on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who gives a crap if he's "homegrown"? This isn't a family dinner. As a FA, he's arguably worth less to the Jets than to any other team in the league. 

Top teams don't re-sign a player they want but don't need because of womanish feelings about him being homegrown, and using that to rationalize paying him like a starting QB.

The Jets will be a better team if they fill an actual hole with the same money instead of force feeding Richardson to OLB or keeping 1 of them on the bench because there aren't enough starting DE positions to go around. 

He's a terrific player. But he isn't incredible or irreplaceable. 

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Who gives a crap if he's "homegrown"? This isn't a family dinner. As a FA, he's arguably worth less to the Jets than to any other team in the league. 

Top teams don't re-sign a player they want but don't need because of womanish feelings about him being homegrown, and using that to rationalize paying him like a starting QB.

The Jets will be a better team if they fill an actual hole with the same money instead of force feeding Richardson to OLB or keeping 1 of them on the bench because there aren't enough starting DE positions to go around. 

He's a terrific player. But he isn't incredible or irreplaceable. 

He's an incredible player Sperm, and not easily replaced on this roster. The better move is to trade Richardson, who is a douchebag that won't be cheap much longer and carries far more long term risk.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

While I am 100% with you on D'Brick, teams do not let their best players go plenty. The ones that do tend to suck and suck for years.

 

Well then we disagree. I don't thing Mo is a $15M upgrade to either Richardson or Williams. Oh and bypassing the free high pick we could get for him as gravy. 

[BroadwayJets]

13 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

He's an incredible player Sperm, and not easily replaced on this roster. The better move is to trade Richardson, who is a douchebag that won't be cheap much longer and carries far more long term risk.

How much of a drop off do you believe there is between Sheldon and Mo? Just last season we were all saying that Shel has a higher ceiling than Mo, IMO it still pertains. 

[SenorGato]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well then we disagree. I don't thing Mo is a $15M upgrade to either Richardson or Williams. Oh and bypassing the free high pick we could get for him as gravy. 

You can get high picks for Richardson, who isn't cheap forever and is far more volatile long term player. Wilkerson is most definitely worth that salary based on his combo of performance and youth, and even then imaginary salaries aren't really all that strong of an argument as to why to lose him.