Brandon Marshall defends Fitz, swipes back at Bart Scott

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

Is this merely a statement of what you think, or did you even try to verify the accuracy of your statement?

Of course. Im glad you did too.

Quote

Let's try ypa.  Fitzpatrick was at 6.9.  Qb's with worse ypa numbers include Flacco, P Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Kaepernick, Luck, Foles, and oh yeah Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith (I know they were not starters, but still).  So what you said there was obviously wrong.  Why did you do that?

First of all, don't try to act like my wife. Secondly, Fitz was rated the 27th BEST QB in regards to YPA. That also answers the the "why" question.

Quote

How about Qb rating?  Those with over 250 attempts with worse ratiings include Osweiler, Bradford, Gabbert, Winston, Hasselbeck, Flacco, Luck, Foles and P Manning.  You were wrong there, too.

He was ranked 24th. Not sure If I'd be bragging about that.

Quote

You are also technically off for comp %, although I will also add at 59.6 Fitzpatrick was only 2/10ths behind league MVP Cam Newton.

He was ranked 29th. Not sure how thats incorrect.

Quote

And also for yards per game he was ahead of Cutler, Newton, Rodgers, Hoyer, Bridgewater, Mariota, P. Manning, Taylor, Hasselbeck, and Foles.

I already addressed the yardage.

Quote

I obviously think your statement is inaccurate.  Did you make any attempt to check it before you posted?

Wow, you really do act like my wife.

In your defense, I probably should have said he was a bottom 9 in every other major passing category besides yardage n TDs. So I apologize for making Fitz look even than he was against 13 of the 16 worst Ds in the league. And yes, I verified the accuracy of that rather damning statement.

[j4jets]

49 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

In addition to your errors regarding the relative stats on Fitzpatrick versus other Qb's, analysis indicates your statement about opponents' team D rating is also misleading.  I am not sure what stat you cherry picked there, but let's look at Qb ratings.

Of the 16 games the Jets played, the following were in the top half of team rankings: New England (twice), Buffalo (twice), Houston, Oakland, and Indianapolis.  And all NFC East opponents were outside the bottom ten.  Worst passing D's?   I don't think so.

For Int's, the following were in the top half for most: Buffalo (twice), Indianapolis, Giants, Eagles, Houston,  and Oakland.  Only Jville and Dallas had less than the 11 recorded by those ranked at 21.

For ypa, those ranked in the half for lowest included Houston, Oakland, Buffalo (twice), Philly, New England (twice).  About half in other words in the top half.

On Comp % the following were all in the lowest (best) half: Buffalo (twice), Houston, Colts, New England (twice), Philly, Redskins, Oakland, Cleveland and Tenn.

Again I don't know what stat you were using, but all the above important stats are contrary to your claim that Fitzpatrick played against weak passing defenses.

1	Denver Broncos	16	18.5	296	344	573	60.0	35.8	3,193	6.2	199.6	19	14	162	28.3	80T	41	5	52	78.8
2	Seattle Seahawks	16	17.3	277	333	548	60.8	34.2	3,364	6.6	210.2	14	14	175	31.9	69T	49	5	37	78.1
3	Houston Texans	16	19.6	313	326	553	59.0	34.6	3,366	6.6	210.4	24	14	173	31.3	55	48	12	45	82.8
4	Chicago Bears	16	24.8	397	322	512	62.9	32.0	3,593	7.5	224.6	31	8	182	35.5	71T	52	10	35	99.3
5	Dallas Cowboys	16	23.4	374	330	506	65.2	31.6	3,632	7.6	227.0	19	8	172	34.0	80T	54	10	31	94.2
6	Green Bay Packers	16	20.2	323	321	551	58.3	34.4	3,642	7.1	227.6	20	16	183	33.2	68	46	14	43	80.1
7	Tennessee Titans	16	26.4	423	319	502	63.5	31.4	3,678	7.9	229.9	34	11	192	38.2	69T	47	12	39	101.3
8	Arizona Cardinals	16	19.6	313	343	573	59.9	35.8	3,687	6.9	230.4	24	19	177	30.9	88T	56	14	36	80.9
9	Kansas City Chiefs	16	17.9	287	349	607	57.5	37.9	3,698	6.6	231.1	25	22	193	31.8	55T	46	9	47	76.0
10	Baltimore Ravens	16	25.1	401	350	545	64.2	34.1	3,737	7.3	233.6	30	6	189	34.7	80T	51	10	37	99.6
11	Carolina Panthers	16	19.2	308	390	650	60.0	40.6	3,752	6.2	234.5	21	24	198	30.5	70T	53	10	44	73.5
12	Minnesota Vikings	16	18.9	302	359	561	64.0	35.1	3,759	7.2	234.9	24	13	189	33.7	72T	47	10	43	90.0
13	New York Jets	16	19.6	314	343	601	57.1	37.6	3,763	6.7	235.2	25	18	185	30.8	72T	59	11	39	79.0
14	Detroit Lions	16	25	400	360	528	68.2	33.0	3,786	7.7	236.6	27	9	191	36.2	61T	59	11	43	100.9
14	San Diego Chargers	16	24.9	398	328	510	64.3	31.9	3,786	7.9	236.6	22	11	170	33.3	72T	54	12	32	93.8
16	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	16	26.1	417	378	540	70.0	33.8	3,840	7.5	240.0	31	11	208	38.5	60T	45	5	38	102.5
17	New England Patriots	16	19.7	315	361	596	60.6	37.2	3,851	7.1	240.7	24	12	204	34.2	87T	57	9	49	87.0
18	Atlanta Falcons	16	21.6	345	370	561	66.0	35.1	3,882	7.1	242.6	19	15	197	35.1	74T	50	5	19	86.9
19	Buffalo Bills	16	22.4	359	347	602	57.6	37.6	3,972	6.8	248.2	30	17	197	32.7	77T	59	11	21	83.3
20	Cincinnati Bengals	16	17.4	279	415	646	64.2	40.4	3,976	6.6	248.5	18	21	202	31.3	64T	39	6	42	78.9
21	Miami Dolphins	16	24.3	389	350	542	64.6	33.9	4,000	7.8	250.0	31	13	203	37.5	84T	53	13	31	97.4
22	Cleveland Browns	16	27	432	322	511	63.0	31.9	4,012	8.2	250.8	34	11	186	36.4	75T	52	16	29	101.8
23	St. Louis Rams	16	20.6	330	399	597	66.8	37.3	4,065	7.2	254.1	21	13	192	32.2	87T	51	8	41	90.4
24	Indianapolis Colts	16	25.5	408	354	585	60.5	36.6	4,114	7.5	257.1	29	17	210	35.9	80T	64	12	35	88.0
25	Washington Redskins	16	23.7	379	354	566	62.5	35.4	4,128	7.8	258.0	30	11	202	35.7	62T	58	12	38	96.1
26	Oakland Raiders	16	24.9	399	404	641	63.0	40.1	4,140	6.8	258.8	25	14	206	32.1	59	56	7	38	86.8
27	San Francisco 49ers	16	24.2	387	375	549	68.3	34.3	4,179	8.0	261.2	21	9	199	36.2	66T	58	13	28	98.1
28	Philadelphia Eagles	16	26.9	430	394	633	62.2	39.6	4,273	7.1	267.1	36	15	239	37.8	59	55	9	37	92.8
29	Jacksonville Jaguars	16	28	448	390	602	64.8	37.6	4,291	7.5	268.2	29	9	222	36.9	71T	54	10	36	97.2
30	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	19.9	319	402	625	64.3	39.1	4,350	7.5	271.9	29	17	231	37.0	80T	52	12	48	90.9
31	New Orleans Saints	16	29.8	476	372	544	68.4	34.0	4,544	8.7	284.0	45	9	223	41.0	90T	64	17	31	116.2
32	New York Giants

[Big Blocker]

41 minutes ago, j4jets said:

1	Denver Broncos	16	18.5	296	344	573	60.0	35.8	3,193	6.2	199.6	19	14	162	28.3	80T	41	5	52	78.8
2	Seattle Seahawks	16	17.3	277	333	548	60.8	34.2	3,364	6.6	210.2	14	14	175	31.9	69T	49	5	37	78.1
3	Houston Texans	16	19.6	313	326	553	59.0	34.6	3,366	6.6	210.4	24	14	173	31.3	55	48	12	45	82.8
4	Chicago Bears	16	24.8	397	322	512	62.9	32.0	3,593	7.5	224.6	31	8	182	35.5	71T	52	10	35	99.3
5	Dallas Cowboys	16	23.4	374	330	506	65.2	31.6	3,632	7.6	227.0	19	8	172	34.0	80T	54	10	31	94.2
6	Green Bay Packers	16	20.2	323	321	551	58.3	34.4	3,642	7.1	227.6	20	16	183	33.2	68	46	14	43	80.1
7	Tennessee Titans	16	26.4	423	319	502	63.5	31.4	3,678	7.9	229.9	34	11	192	38.2	69T	47	12	39	101.3
8	Arizona Cardinals	16	19.6	313	343	573	59.9	35.8	3,687	6.9	230.4	24	19	177	30.9	88T	56	14	36	80.9
9	Kansas City Chiefs	16	17.9	287	349	607	57.5	37.9	3,698	6.6	231.1	25	22	193	31.8	55T	46	9	47	76.0
10	Baltimore Ravens	16	25.1	401	350	545	64.2	34.1	3,737	7.3	233.6	30	6	189	34.7	80T	51	10	37	99.6
11	Carolina Panthers	16	19.2	308	390	650	60.0	40.6	3,752	6.2	234.5	21	24	198	30.5	70T	53	10	44	73.5
12	Minnesota Vikings	16	18.9	302	359	561	64.0	35.1	3,759	7.2	234.9	24	13	189	33.7	72T	47	10	43	90.0
13	New York Jets	16	19.6	314	343	601	57.1	37.6	3,763	6.7	235.2	25	18	185	30.8	72T	59	11	39	79.0
14	Detroit Lions	16	25	400	360	528	68.2	33.0	3,786	7.7	236.6	27	9	191	36.2	61T	59	11	43	100.9
14	San Diego Chargers	16	24.9	398	328	510	64.3	31.9	3,786	7.9	236.6	22	11	170	33.3	72T	54	12	32	93.8
16	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	16	26.1	417	378	540	70.0	33.8	3,840	7.5	240.0	31	11	208	38.5	60T	45	5	38	102.5
17	New England Patriots	16	19.7	315	361	596	60.6	37.2	3,851	7.1	240.7	24	12	204	34.2	87T	57	9	49	87.0
18	Atlanta Falcons	16	21.6	345	370	561	66.0	35.1	3,882	7.1	242.6	19	15	197	35.1	74T	50	5	19	86.9
19	Buffalo Bills	16	22.4	359	347	602	57.6	37.6	3,972	6.8	248.2	30	17	197	32.7	77T	59	11	21	83.3
20	Cincinnati Bengals	16	17.4	279	415	646	64.2	40.4	3,976	6.6	248.5	18	21	202	31.3	64T	39	6	42	78.9
21	Miami Dolphins	16	24.3	389	350	542	64.6	33.9	4,000	7.8	250.0	31	13	203	37.5	84T	53	13	31	97.4
22	Cleveland Browns	16	27	432	322	511	63.0	31.9	4,012	8.2	250.8	34	11	186	36.4	75T	52	16	29	101.8
23	St. Louis Rams	16	20.6	330	399	597	66.8	37.3	4,065	7.2	254.1	21	13	192	32.2	87T	51	8	41	90.4
24	Indianapolis Colts	16	25.5	408	354	585	60.5	36.6	4,114	7.5	257.1	29	17	210	35.9	80T	64	12	35	88.0
25	Washington Redskins	16	23.7	379	354	566	62.5	35.4	4,128	7.8	258.0	30	11	202	35.7	62T	58	12	38	96.1
26	Oakland Raiders	16	24.9	399	404	641	63.0	40.1	4,140	6.8	258.8	25	14	206	32.1	59	56	7	38	86.8
27	San Francisco 49ers	16	24.2	387	375	549	68.3	34.3	4,179	8.0	261.2	21	9	199	36.2	66T	58	13	28	98.1
28	Philadelphia Eagles	16	26.9	430	394	633	62.2	39.6	4,273	7.1	267.1	36	15	239	37.8	59	55	9	37	92.8
29	Jacksonville Jaguars	16	28	448	390	602	64.8	37.6	4,291	7.5	268.2	29	9	222	36.9	71T	54	10	36	97.2
30	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	19.9	319	402	625	64.3	39.1	4,350	7.5	271.9	29	17	231	37.0	80T	52	12	48	90.9
31	New Orleans Saints	16	29.8	476	372	544	68.4	34.0	4,544	8.7	284.0	45	9	223	41.0	90T	64	17	31	116.2
32	New York Giants

total yardage is a problematic stat to compare pass defenses.  In all the other stats I quoted the Jets' opponents did better.  So you cherry picked. 

WHy did you feel the need to cherry pick?

[nyjunc]

based on pass yards allowed:

 

only 3 opponents were in top half of the league in pass yds allowed.  of course this can be skewed w/ bad teams that opponents are trying to run out the clock against or good teams where opponents need to pass to get back in game but it gives us a guide.

3. Houston

5. Dallas

7. Tennessee

17. NE

19. Buf

21. Miami

22. Cle

24. Indy

25. Wash

26. oak

28. Philly

29. jax

32. NYG

[cant wait]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

based on pass yards allowed:

 

only 3 opponents were in top half of the league in pass yds allowed.  of course this can be skewed w/ bad teams that opponents are trying to run out the clock against or good teams where opponents need to pass to get back in game but it gives us a guide.

3. Houston

5. Dallas

7. Tennessee

17. NE

19. Buf

21. Miami

22. Cle

24. Indy

25. Wash

26. oak

28. Philly

29. jax

32. NYG

By the time we played Tennessee their secondary was in shambles, they were actually decent against the pass early in the season. I'm sure fitz was counting the dollars in his head when he was padding those stats as much as possible in a blowout game

[Big Blocker]

47 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Of course. Im glad you did too.

First of all, don't try to act like my wife. Secondly, Fitz was rated the 27th BEST QB in regards to YPA. That also answers the the "why" question.

He was ranked 24th. Not sure If I'd be bragging about that.

He was ranked 29th. Not sure how thats incorrect.

I already addressed the yardage.

Wow, you really do act like my wife.

In your defense, I probably should have said he was a bottom 9 in every other major passing category besides yardage n TDs. So I apologize for making Fitz look even than he was against 13 of the 16 worst Ds in the league. And yes, I verified the accuracy of that rather damning statement.

First of all you either love your wife, in which case I don't get the point, or you don't, in which case that's your problem.

As for the stats you say 27th worst when you must be listing that off of a list that does not include starting Qb's who played a certain minimum plays.  I only count 25 Qb's who threw over 250 times who had a better ypa, and that concededly is not his best stat. 

The point about Qb rating is that you said he was bottom 5 in all stats other than Td's and total yards.  You were wrong.

Yards per game is a different stat than total yards, obviously because some Qb's miss games.  In any event you were wrong about that stat, too.

ANd of course as I said you had to cherry pick a stat to make the "point" about opposing defenses.

The larger point you are missing is that in comparing starting NFL Qb's, you are talking about a very select group of people.  Some teams are going to be toward the bottom of metrics for such players.  But they are starters because they are better than other options. SO the larger point is who is a better option to start at Qb for the Jets than Fitzpatrick?

Your original post here on this does not help answer that question.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, cant wait said:

By the time we played Tennessee their secondary was in shambles, they were actually decent against the pass early in the season

I don't remember, I just remember they were awful.

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Unfortunately I think this is where many of us tend to stray. Fitz did have 23 TD's in the redzone and only 1 Int in the redzone. But I will have to respectfully disagree about those INT's not really hurting the team. Fitz threw 15 ints on the year and in 4 of the 16 games he threw multiple picks. In every game that Fitzpatrick threw 2 or more int's the Jets lost the game. 

. 

Villain just because Fitz threw Ints in some of the games we lost does not mean we lost those games due to the Ints not by a long shot. Your being very misleading here since you know we lost games for way more reasons than the QB.  

We lost one game due to a dropped TD

We lost another game due to Fumbles and an Ill advised Lateral

W lost another game due to fumbles and terrible ST Play --Possibly 2 games.

That's 4 games..... so if we don't make those mistakes we win 14 games ...

The only 2 games we lost because of total team break downs including the QB were the Oakland game and the Buffalo game in which Fitz played in only one of those games. In the Buffalo game NO QB was going to play well in those conditions that's why you have a running games and also why the running game is so important late in the season we happily trotted Steven Ridley out there to run the ball and as a result we had nothing since not only did we have to contend with the wind but we had to contend with double covered WR's and virtually no other option. ZERO.!! 

If you are going to proceed to tell me any QB plays well in those conditions you're 100 % wrong and you will never convince me otherwise because I do know how much the wind effects a thrown football no matter how good your arm is.

[isired]

IF he plays at the same level as last year, what other current options are available to the Jets, reasonably available, that are even that good?

Can't think of any.

Unless you think we improved our roster enough to overcome the extreme shift in our 'degree of difficulty' (2016 schedule) and make a playoff run, the question isn't really "which qb gives us a chance at the most wins this season" but "what is best for the Jets" or "which qb gives us a chance at getting to the playoffs and deeper the soonest."

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, isired said:

4 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

IF he plays at the same level as last year, what other current options are available to the Jets, reasonably available, that are even that good?

Can't think of any.

 

Unless you think we improved our roster enough to overcome the extreme shift in our 'degree of difficulty' (2016 schedule) and make a playoff run, the question isn't really "which qb gives us a chance at the most wins this season" but "what is best for the Jets" or "which qb gives us a chance at getting to the playoffs and deeper the soonest."

First of all I am a fan who does not place too much significance in assessing the coming schedule based on last year's performance by the teams scheduled.  If you go by that measure, though, the number of teams the Jets are facing who were .500 or better last year is ten, which is the same number of teams that were .500 or better in 2014 that they played last season.  Now I am not saying that the teams the Jets will face will not be any more difficult than the ones they actually played last year.  It's just not all that significant an argument at this point, meaning the argument that they certainly will be more difficult.  In any event I do not foresee an "extreme" difference.

But difficulty in relative terms of pending opponents is merely one variable.  Add in that last year the CS was all new with a rookie HC, an OC who had been sitting on a couch for two years, and a Qb who was also new to the team.  An early season loss like the Eagles game was one they could have won with more previous continuity.  I expect to see dividends from the CS having more experience. 

Also last year the Jets had essentially no production from TE, played a #2 Cb who had injury problems, and a #1 who had them late in the season, an unsettled situation at key bench position 3rd wideout, one of the most inconsistent punters in the league, overall perhaps the worst special teams in the league, and of course a poor showing by the backup Qb in the one game he did get into.  One of the top 3 defensive players missed 4 games due to a suspension.  And by season end the running backs were down to Ridley in terms of being available and healthy.

As for your questions, you didn't answer them, so I am not sure what you are driving at.

 

[isired]

First of all I am a fan who does not place too much significance in assessing the coming schedule based on last year's performance by the teams scheduled.  If you go by that measure, though, the number of teams the Jets are facing who were .500 or better last year is ten, which is the same number of teams that were .500 or better in 2014 that they played last season.  Now I am not saying that the teams the Jets will face will not be any more difficult than the ones they actually played last year.  It's just not all that significant an argument at this point, meaning the argument that they certainly will be more difficult.  In any event I do not foresee an "extreme" difference.

But difficulty in relative terms of pending opponents is merely one variable.  Add in that last year the CS was all new with a rookie HC, an OC who had been sitting on a couch for two years, and a Qb who was also new to the team.  An early season loss like the Eagles game was one they could have won with more previous continuity.  I expect to see dividends from the CS having more experience. 

Also last year the Jets had essentially no production from TE, played a #2 Cb who had injury problems, and a #1 who had them late in the season, an unsettled situation at key bench position 3rd wideout, one of the most inconsistent punters in the league, overall perhaps the worst special teams in the league, and of course a poor showing by the backup Qb in the one game he did get into.  One of the top 3 defensive players missed 4 games due to a suspension.  And by season end the running backs were down to Ridley in terms of being available and healthy.

As for your questions, you didn't answer them, so I am not sure what you are driving at.

 

I thought most were pretty much in agreement that if we deliver the same performance as last year, the schedule would mean we'll spend the playoff season at home again. I wasn't really tying to debate what is the right thing to do, that's a matter of opinion, rather point out that the short view might not be the beat view this year in particular.

But to answer, I think Fitz Hack and Petty are the best option, but I wouldn't overpay or write checks against the future to keep Fitz. I don't think it's crucial that we have him.

[Big Blocker]

14 minutes ago, isired said:

I thought most were pretty much in agreement that if we deliver the same performance as last year, the schedule would mean we'll spend the playoff season at home again. I wasn't really tying to debate what is the right thing to do, that's a matter of opinion, rather point out that the short view might not be the beat view this year in particular.

But to answer, I think Fitz Hack and Petty are the best option, but I wouldn't overpay or write checks against the future to keep Fitz. I don't think it's crucial that we have him.

I agree about not overpaying, and am to be clear not saying strength of schedule is not an issue or that it will not be worse this year.  I simply do not think we should overrate the difficulty of the coming schedule right now.

Take for example the coming game against Arizona.  They made the NFC Champ game, and that looks like a loss at this point.  But how strong will they end up actually being?  Too hard to say at this point.  Say Palmer got hurt or even started declining for whatever reason.  As bad as that game looks right now, even the most skeptical Jet fan is not going to say the Jets should save the plane fare and forfeit. 

But... I will concede right now the first six game stretch looks difficult.  We'll see...

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Villain just because Fitz threw Ints in some of the games we lost does not mean we lost those games due to the Ints not by a long shot. Your being very misleading here since you know we lost games for way more reasons than the QB.  

We lost one game due to a dropped TD

We lost another game due to Fumbles and an Ill advised Lateral

W lost another game due to fumbles and terrible ST Play --Possibly 2 games.

That's 4 games..... so if we don't make those mistakes we win 14 games ...

The only 2 games we lost because of total team break downs including the QB were the Oakland game and the Buffalo game in which Fitz played in only one of those games. In the Buffalo game NO QB was going to play well in those conditions that's why you have a running games and also why the running game is so important late in the season we happily trotted Steven Ridley out there to run the ball and as a result we had nothing since not only did we have to contend with the wind but we had to contend with double covered WR's and virtually no other option. ZERO.!! 

If you are going to proceed to tell me any QB plays well in those conditions you're 100 % wrong and you will never convince me otherwise because I do know how much the wind effects a thrown football no matter how good your arm is.

Smash, The fact that I can do the very same thing in regards to games we actually won and show you how "If Coughlin would have simply kicked a field goal" we would have lost, only shows that you're being just as misleading as you're claiming i'm being....yet you surely counted that Giants game as part of your "14" right? 

I can do the same then.

#1. If that moron Pats player would have accepted the ball in OT Brady could have put the game away in OT and the Pats sweep us.

#2. If Tom Coughlin would have kicked a field goal in the fourth the Jets would have lost. 

#3. If Tony Romo wasnt out and if Dez Bryant wasnt injured the Cowboys would have scored more than 16 points (kinda like your Fitz/Raiders situation aint it?)

#4. If Kirk Cousins had Desean Jackson the first half of the season like he did the 2nd half of the season they could have scored more points, approached the game differently and that outcome may not have been what it was. 

I just took your 14 games, found 4 games that we should have lost and now we're back at 10 and still no playoffs. C'mon Smash. 

This above^^^^^ is not what I was doing. You're supporting your 14 wins on hypotheticals, im supporting my position with facts based on his INT's, his  win/loss percentages based on those INT's and his win/loss percentages based on history of teams scoring 21 or more points. All this is factual, not hypothetical. 

Also, its kinda crazy how "Fitz didnt play in the Raiders game" though he started. Let me explain what happened. He scrambled, and after getting the 1st down 15 yards ago, instead of sliding he decided to dive head first and broke his hand. I know that its rather easy to give all these hypotheticals for Fitz while just "handing losses" to Geno...but lets be serious, the Raiders put up 34 points. When's the last time Fitzpatrick beat a team that scored 34 points? Fitz loses games when teams score 21 points 92% of the time the past 4 years....how are you even damage controlling that by saying that he didnt play in the game. He made a poor decision on the football field and was injured because of it. 

Look, I can respect you supporting your position. If Fitzpatrick was really worth 14 games then we would have been in the playoffs. If he was really as good as the Hypotheticals would suggest Macc would have made sure that he wouldnt have walked out the building because when a QB is worth 14 games he's also saying that he's worth a superbowl. 

I disagree, but I respect your point. 

[Smashmouth]

54 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Smash, The fact that I can do the very same thing in regards to games we actually won and show you how "If Coughlin would have simply kicked a field goal" we would have lost, only shows that you're being just as misleading as you're claiming i'm being....yet you surely counted that Giants game as part of your "14" right? 

I can do the same then.

#1. If that moron Pats player would have accepted the ball in OT Brady could have put the game away in OT and the Pats sweep us.

#2. If Tom Coughlin would have kicked a field goal in the fourth the Jets would have lost. 

#3. If Tony Romo wasnt out and if Dez Bryant wasnt injured the Cowboys would have scored more than 16 points (kinda like your Fitz/Raiders situation aint it?)

#4. If Kirk Cousins had Desean Jackson the first half of the season like he did the 2nd half of the season they could have scored more points, approached the game differently and that outcome may not have been what it was. 

I just took your 14 games, found 4 games that we should have lost and now we're back at 10 and still no playoffs. C'mon Smash. 

This above^^^^^ is not what I was doing. You're supporting your 14 wins on hypotheticals, im supporting my position with facts based on his INT's, his  win/loss percentages based on those INT's and his win/loss percentages based on history of teams scoring 21 or more points. All this is factual, not hypothetical. 

Also, its kinda crazy how "Fitz didnt play in the Raiders game" though he started. Let me explain what happened. He scrambled, and after getting the 1st down 15 yards ago, instead of sliding he decided to dive head first and broke his hand. I know that its rather easy to give all these hypotheticals for Fitz while just "handing losses" to Geno...but lets be serious, the Raiders put up 34 points. When's the last time Fitzpatrick beat a team that scored 34 points? Fitz loses games when teams score 21 points 92% of the time the past 4 years....how are you even damage controlling that by saying that he didnt play in the game. He made a poor decision on the football field and was injured because of it. 

Look, I can respect you supporting your position. If Fitzpatrick was really worth 14 games then we would have been in the playoffs. If he was really as good as the Hypotheticals would suggest Macc would have made sure that he wouldnt have walked out the building because when a QB is worth 14 games he's also saying that he's worth a superbowl. 

I disagree, but I respect your point. 

Villain my examples were based on actual game play not woulda shoulda coulda scenarios. That being said yes we both did the same thing but it just goes to show things are not one dimensional when it comes to football. Its not all about stats as you well know and Fitz brought some very good QB qualities and play to the table last year. The biggest gripe I see is arm strength and with that as the year went on Fitz was fully capable of making the throws needed to succeed. Recovering from a lower body injury in this case a broken leg takes time and early in the year Fitz certainly struggled but as the year went on he made huge strides and his arm was just fine moving forward. I was over all happy with the way he played and hes ourt best option for the next year or two. I think this team is built to win now and I see about a 2 year window in that respect so why would anyone want to take another chance with Geno who seems to be our only other option ? unless of course the Jets think throwing Hack in as a rookie is a good idea or that Petty has made more strides than we know at this point.

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Villain my examples were based on actual game play not woulda shoulda coulda scenarios. That being said yes we both did the same thing but it just goes to show things are not one dimensional when it comes to football. Its not all about stats as you well know and Fitz brought some very good QB qualities and play to the table last year. The biggest gripe I see is arm strength and with that as the year went on Fitz was fully capable of making the throws needed to succeed. Recovering from a lower body injury in this case a broken leg takes time and early in the year Fitz certainly struggled but as the year went on he made huge strides and his arm was just fine moving forward. I was over all happy with the way he played and hes ourt best option for the next year or two. I think this team is built to win now and I see about a 2 year window in that respect so why would anyone want to take another chance with Geno who seems to be our only other option ? unless of course the Jets think throwing Hack in as a rookie is a good idea or that Petty has made more strides than we know at this point.

Lol No Smash, we didnt do the same thing. I used stats and percentages, both of last year and Fitz based on the last 4 years. You used... "if this happened Fitz would have won 14 games". 

 

Im done tho. 

[AFJF]

8 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

WHo is talking about paying Fitz all that he is apparently asking for?

Beyond that the Jets can make room for a competitive salary for their starting Qb or they are in a bigger mess than most here think.

Do you know what he's asking for?

[j4jets]

7 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

total yardage is a problematic stat to compare pass defenses.  In all the other stats I quoted the Jets' opponents did better.  So you cherry picked. 

WHy did you feel the need to cherry pick?

Interesting. You also picked Fitz total passing yardage to pound your chest. Since we are talking about passing D, we couldn't pick points allowed as the measure. The next most accurate measure is yardage allowed. 

And stop acting like my wife. You're creeping me out. 

[Goinggreen]

I can not understand fans that still talk about Mark Sanchez like we made a mistake from moving on at the position. I remember friends telling me to watch Mark make a comeback and beat the Jets when the Pats picked him up. All I heard was, if anyone can turn his career around is Billacheat. Well they dumped him before pre-season. Now in Denver those of you that think he is going to do anything positive forget about it! End of story. 

So now I want to address Fitz who in my opinion can not be any better than in 2015. We have the same receiving core and if anything we only upgraded at HB with Forte because he is dangerous catching the ball. The fact is Fitz had good weapons last year and has the same weapons this year and he lost two very important division games against Buffalo. Those two games were so important to the team and the fans and Fitz commited too many mistakes and we lost both games. I honestly believe this old horse can not learn enough to get us deep into the play offs. So if Fitz does not sign for 7-8 mil move on. 

[Goinggreen]

I have seen time and time again WR's making good catches and run after the catch for all top QB's. So???

[nyjunc]

9 hours ago, Goinggreen said:

I can not understand fans that still talk about Mark Sanchez like we made a mistake from moving on at the position. I remember friends telling me to watch Mark make a comeback and beat the Jets when the Pats picked him up. All I heard was, if anyone can turn his career around is Billacheat. Well they dumped him before pre-season. Now in Denver those of you that think he is going to do anything positive forget about it! End of story. 

So now I want to address Fitz who in my opinion can not be any better than in 2015. We have the same receiving core and if anything we only upgraded at HB with Forte because he is dangerous catching the ball. The fact is Fitz had good weapons last year and has the same weapons this year and he lost two very important division games against Buffalo. Those two games were so important to the team and the fans and Fitz commited too many mistakes and we lost both games. I honestly believe this old horse can not learn enough to get us deep into the play offs. So if Fitz does not sign for 7-8 mil move on. 

Sanchez was never picked up by New England.  you are confusing him w/ Tim Tebow.

 

 

[Big Blocker]

9 hours ago, Goinggreen said:

I can not understand fans that still talk about Mark Sanchez like we made a mistake from moving on at the position. I remember friends telling me to watch Mark make a comeback and beat the Jets when the Pats picked him up. All I heard was, if anyone can turn his career around is Billacheat. Well they dumped him before pre-season. Now in Denver those of you that think he is going to do anything positive forget about it! End of story. 

So now I want to address Fitz who in my opinion can not be any better than in 2015. We have the same receiving core and if anything we only upgraded at HB with Forte because he is dangerous catching the ball. The fact is Fitz had good weapons last year and has the same weapons this year and he lost two very important division games against Buffalo. Those two games were so important to the team and the fans and Fitz commited too many mistakes and we lost both games. I honestly believe this old horse can not learn enough to get us deep into the play offs. So if Fitz does not sign for 7-8 mil move on. 

Putting aside the Fitzpatrick and Sanchez stuff, there is certainly reason to think the Jet receivers will be even better this year, and not just because of Forte, although he should help.  As much as I loved Ivory he was nothing special as a receiver.

But let's not forget that the Jets had virtually nothing at TE last year, and that 3rd wideout (THE key bench position on O) they had a year long unsettled situation.  I am not necessarily counting on Amaro to be a huge factor, but he should be an improvement returning.  There is also reason to expect a more settled situation at 3rd wideout.  Both can be improved, and imo likely will be.

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Goinggreen said:

I can not understand fans that still talk about Mark Sanchez like we made a mistake from moving on at the position.

We didn't make a mistake moving on from Mark, he has shown he was not starter/#6 pick worthy.

The reason some may consider it a mistake is because the player we moved on to, Geno Smith, is inferior to the guy we moved on from, Mark Sanchez.

Had we upgraded, there would be no complaints.  Because we went from "bad but kinda sorta average" to "worst in the NFL", you will hear complaints.

[RutgersJetFan]

"As soon as we're born, we're all downhill."

That is beautiful. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

"As soon as we're born, we're all downhill."

That is beautiful. 

- "How's your mother?"

- "Oh, she's on her way out.."

- "We all are, act accordingly." 

[Goinggreen]

On May 11, 2016 at 10:16 AM, nyjunc said:

he didn't have a top run game in 2010, the Ds were always overrated.  Put mark on the 2015 jets and we are in the playoffs, put Fitz on the 2009/2010 jets and we no way make a single title game.

I totally disagree with that idea. Sanchez had an above average run game and a solid defense. He gave the opponents as many points and we scored and there is no way he could play mistake free football. His football IQ is really low just like Geno. On the other hand Fitz had a solid offensive run game and receivers. The defense could stop any one in the secondary.  The pass defense was horrible with Cro getting beat every game he played in and Revis showing his age and that he's not worth his salary. I think Fitz and Geno are about the same passing the ball but Fitz has a much higher football IQ. Fitz scored one of e highest Wonderlink scores ever. Yet there is no way to really know if Fitz could have done what Sanchez did,  because Sanchez did not do much if you look at his stats. Undecided as far as to who is better. ?

[papz187]

Have no problem with Fitzpatrick, or anyone else, trying to get as much money out of this league as they possibly can. Just think Fitz's apparent demands are completely unreasonable. If it's true that the Jets have gone as high as $9M for 2016, he and his agent should be jumping all over that. There's not another team in the league that's gonna come over that offer - whether they lose their starting QB to injury in training camp or not. 

And really, I hope the Jets aren't offering that much. And won't. 

I agree that regardless if another team loses their starter to injury or not I can't see a team offering Fitz more than what the Jets reportedly have offered him already.

One key piece of info that I think some may have overlooked is that Fitz is not worth as much to any other team as he is to the Jets simply because his best play has come from Gailey coaching him.....and we've seen Fitz in other situations, it hasn't been nearly as successful or productive. Add in the duo of Decker and Marshall, plus role players like Powell out of the backfield and hopefully Devin Smith with a year under his belt and healthy, there just isn't going to be a better situation for Fitz to thrive in than NY with the Jets.

Now whether he chooses to return to the Jets or not is ultimately going to be up to him, if he's willing to accept a more realistic offer than the one he's been holding out for. If not, than he can sign for even less with another organization if the opportunity arises where his chance of success is much less in my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[AFJF]

On 5/12/2016 at 9:58 AM, Big Blocker said:

WHo is talking about paying Fitz all that he is apparently asking for?

Beyond that the Jets can make room for a competitive salary for their starting Qb or they are in a bigger mess than most here think.

Nobody is actually calling for it, but Geno fans continually claim that Fitz supporters are saying he's a franchise QB worth $16-18 million.  Straw man.

[Paradis]

On 5/11/2016 at 9:29 AM, AFJF said:

Marshall is right about Scott's comments regarding pay days.  Since when have NFL players been limited to "one pay day"?  Fitz, sadly, is doing what anyone else in his position would do and trying to get max money.

 

 

That was Bart's polite way of saying "Fool me once..."  as in, you only get overpaid once, as he did in BUF. (Unless your name's Matt Flynn)

[AFJF]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

That was Bart's polite way of saying "Fool me once..."  as in, you only get overpaid once, as he did in BUF. (Unless your name's Matt Flynn)

Yes, because Fitz is the only player who has ever tried to max out a contract.

[Paradis]

Yes, because Fitz is the only player who has ever tried to max out a contract.

The fkc does that have to do with anything. You seemed genuinely confused about what Bart meant. I clarified it for you.

You're welcome.

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

The fkc does that have to do with anything. You seemed genuinely confused about what Bart meant. I clarified it for you.

You're welcome.

I'm sure Bart appreciates you explaining what it was he meant to say...lol

[nyjunc]

On 5/14/2016 at 1:33 AM, Goinggreen said:

I totally disagree with that idea. Sanchez had an above average run game and a solid defense. He gave the opponents as many points and we scored and there is no way he could play mistake free football. His football IQ is really low just like Geno. On the other hand Fitz had a solid offensive run game and receivers. The defense could stop any one in the secondary.  The pass defense was horrible with Cro getting beat every game he played in and Revis showing his age and that he's not worth his salary. I think Fitz and Geno are about the same passing the ball but Fitz has a much higher football IQ. Fitz scored one of e highest Wonderlink scores ever. Yet there is no way to really know if Fitz could have done what Sanchez did,  because Sanchez did not do much if you look at his stats. Undecided as far as to who is better. ?

please show how he gave the opponents as many points as we scored?

 

2010: we turned it over 21 times, mark had 13 INTs(w/ 2 ridiculous ones credited to him vs. GB that shouldn't have been). and as a team we had 7 fumbles and mark Brunell threw one INt in his limited action.

Baltimore: 1 TO, fumble by Shonn Greene

at denver: 3 TOs, Mark threw 2 INts. 1st INT D turned it back over, 2nd INT led to Den FG. 3rd TO was a fumble by Holmes. 3 pts

vs. GB: 3 TOs, 2 INts and 1 fumble.the fumble was by Brad Smith.  1st "INT" GB missed FG, 2nd "Int" led to GB FG. 3 prs(6 total)

at det: 2 TOs- fumble and INT.  Braylon fumbled and INt led to a punt.

at Cle: 1 TO, INT.  on 3rd and 14 late in OT w/ nothing to lose he threw it deep and it was picked, Cle then started at their 3, we got a 3 and out and we go on to win.

vs. Hou: 2 TOs, fumble and INT.  fumble by Greene, INT led to 3 pts(9 total).

vs. Cin: 1 TO, INT.  led to missed FG

at NE: 3 TOs, all INts.  trailing by 21 pts before 1st INT.  all 3 led to TDs though 2 of the drives started inside NE 10 so hard to pin that on QB.  21 pts, 30 pts total.

vs. Mia: 2 TOs, 1 INT.  INT led to FG, Mark fumbled on sack and led to TD.  10 pts, 40 pts total.

at Chi: 2 TOs, 1 INT.  Holmes fumbled.  INT led to 0 pts.

vs. Buffalo: he didn't throw a pass, Buf's only pts came on INT return against Brunell.

 

total was 40 pts w/ 21 at NE in a game that was already lost.  we only scored 40 pts that year?

 

 

for comparison let's look at 2015:

vs. Cle: 1 TO, INT but marhsall ripped it right back.

at Ind: 1 TO, INT.  INT led to 0 pts.

vs. Phi: 4 TOs, 3 INTs and the marshall fumble. all 3 led to punts

at Mia: 1 TO, INT.  INt led to punt

vs. was: 3 TOs, 1 INT.  Decker and Marshall fumbled. INt led to FG. 3 total.

at NE: 1 TO, Fitz sacked and fumbled, led to FG.  6 total.

at Oak: 1 TO, Geno INT.

vs. Buf: 4 TOs, 2 INTs.  Devin Smith and Ivory fumbled, 1st INT led to FG, 2nd INT led to nothing.  9 total

at hou: 2 TOs, 2 INTs.  led to no pts, just prevented us from tying game late in 24-17 game.

at NYG: 1 TO, Ivory fumble.

at Dal: 1 TO, INT.  D turned it right back over

vs. NE: 1 TO, Fitz fumble returned for TD. 16 pts total

at Buf: 3 TOs, 3 INTs, 1st INT led to FG, 2nd and 3rd just ended game.  19 pts total.

21 less(the 21 meaningless ones in the blouw at NE in '10) but the '15 D did much better w/ these TOs and Mark didn't have as many backbreaking ones.

[Goinggreen]

On May 11, 2016 at 4:02 PM, PatsFanTX said:

Fair enough Shad.

Obviously, we disagree.

Geno may be a lifetime back up at best. Training camp reps do not make you a starter in the NFL. Every year fans talk up the Geno coaster. Geno is the best camp QB, blah blah blah!  Please wake the **** up!!!

[Goinggreen]

On May 13, 2016 at 6:35 AM, Big Blocker said:

Putting aside the Fitzpatrick and Sanchez stuff, there is certainly reason to think the Jet receivers will be even better this year, and not just because of Forte, although he should help.  As much as I loved Ivory he was nothing special as a receiver.

But let's not forget that the Jets had virtually nothing at TE last year, and that 3rd wideout (THE key bench position on O) they had a year long unsettled situation.  I am not necessarily counting on Amaro to be a huge factor, but he should be an improvement returning.  There is also reason to expect a more settled situation at 3rd wideout.  Both can be improved, and imo likely will be.

My prayers were not answered!!! Fitz got his 12 mil. On the other hand Fitz does have better weapons this year. Will he be any better I doubt it very much. Even though Forte and some of the rookie WR's could help balloon Fitz numbers a tiny bit. Is it enough to get us in the play offs? I think if we get in and our defense plays ball out we can over achieve.  Go Jets!!!