Kirwan breaks down Fitz on film

[Mainejet]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

He talks about the amount of games that Fitz had with multiple TD's (9) then says that Geno had double the amount of games played yet less games with multiple TD's (6). 

He then goes on to make a loose comparison to Rich Gannon, and in that comparison he states: He's better now than he's ever been (like with Rich Gannon with the Raiders). And if you want to say "its the weapons" with Fitz, then I'll say the same thing about Rich Gannon. Rich had Jerry Rice and Tim Brown. MAYBE SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO GIVE THE GUY WEAPONS.

Well Pat, Geno Smith didnt have Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, and he didnt have Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker. He had guys who are either unemployed and currently out of the league, or benched. The 1 guy that he did have in Decker, wasnt a #1 WR and was injured for the majority of the season. And even with that Decker was less than 40 yards away of breaking 1,000 yards with Geno. And lets be serious, Eric Decker as Geno's #1 WR isnt like Brandon Marshall as his #1 or DeAndre Hopkins as his #1, back when Fitz was a Texan. 

Question Pat, why is it that you can  "say the same thing about Rich Gannon" in respects to weapons while saying that its okay to provide Fitz with weapons yet you dont take that into consideration when comparing Geno's games (less games with multiple TD's etc.)? Why hasnt it occurred to you Pat that maybe Geno needs the same type of weapons that Fitz and Gannon needed in order to turn things around? I would ask for you to tell me which season did Geno have weapons to use that was comparable to Fitz weapons last year or Rich Gannon's when he had Rice and Brown, but we both know that such a season doesnt exist. 

I agree with you Pat that we need not to forget about Fitz, but lets stop pretending that your comparisons are on equal ground here. It would be valid if Geno had 1 season with those weapons (Fitz) or some of his 5 seasons with Rice/Brown (Gannon), but when a majority of your targets are Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Ryan Spadola, David Nelson, Jeremy Kerley, post Lisfranc Santonio Holmes, Chad Shilens, Jeff Cumberland etc. I think it's fair to say that you can support Ryan Fitzpatrick without giving totally unequal comparisons to Geno. 

 

excuses, excuses, excuses Go cry if you have to, but your rhetoric will never change common sense and logic...

[jetrider]

11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I cant explain it bro. The breakdown was terrible, which that wouldnt be Pat Kirwin's first terrible breakdown anyway so its not surprising. 

I dont even mind the Fitz support. Fitz had a better season than I thought personally, but not to the point where I have to go to Minicamp threads only to post tweets when Geno gets intercepted as some sort of way to make Fitz look better (Fitz fans). Its crazy how when Geno is doing well you cant find a tweet about it unless I go and post ALL of the tweets from practice, then the first thing you hear is "It doesnt matter because they're in shorts and no pads" but the moment he throws an interception you see tweets and comments everywhere! lol. Thats the type of Fitz support that is laughable.

 

This offseason has been all types of funny, let me tell ya! lol. 

These clowns lost me when dropped passes are credited to Fitz but a perfectly thrown pick-6 in wide-open Corey Graham's lap doesn't count cause he dropped it and "almosts" don't count. 

[Villain The Foe]

22 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

excuses, excuses, excuses Go cry if you have to, but your rhetoric will never change common sense and logic...

The only excuse I see are people making a case for a guy that isnt even on the team, not in OTA's and not at minicamp. 

 

The only excuse I see are people making a case for a guy the Jets FO didnt resign before the offseason program started, didnt franchise him before the offseason program began and then proceeded to let him sit on the free agency market since March. Its June 16th my friend and Fitz is STILL on the market. Every team who was looking for an answer at QB passed on him. You dont hear about any other team in the league having talks with Fitz or his agent. 

 

Meanwhile you think im crying becuase Geno is out there with the 1st team showing the team what he's made of? Na, bro. I wiped my tears the day the draft ended and I realized that trading for Mike Glennon wasnt happening. I proceeded to move on, unlike some of the fans on this forum. 

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

That looks eerily similar to the analysis I did on Fitz being voted worst QB in the NFL two years in a row and saying it was hilarious, skipping a team meeting to "go to the movies" then getting beaten up by a teammate for refusing to pay off a debt.

This isn't a Fitz vs Geno thing to me.

It is a Fitz is not good enough to win a Super Bowl so don't overpay him.  

Like if Fitz isn't the long term answer, which he isn't, what's the point in tying money up in him.  The Jets have offered him more money than any other team. The problem here is Fitz. I wanted him back but now I am hoping the Jets move on. If that means Geno,Petty or bringing back Matt Simms go for it. Fitz isn't the long term answer let's bring in 20 QBs until we find the right one.

[Rangers9]

The perfect example of winning ugly is the Patriots. They regularly get outplayed for a good percentage of games, and that includes statistically. But they stay close and find ways to win late in games. And those Ws count even though they to some of you were "almost losses." Lets accept our Ws and enjoy them and stop being ridiculous. I'll take any W even the ugly ones. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

The perfect example of winning ugly is the Patriots. They regularly get outplayed for a good percentage of games, and that includes statistically. But they stay close and find ways to win late in games. And those Ws count even though they to some of you were "almost losses." Lets accept our Ws and enjoy them and stop being ridiculous. I'll take any W even the ugly ones. 

that's just not true, they don;t regularly get outplayed for good percentages of games but either way they have possibly the greatest QB of all time which masks deficiencies. 

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, jetrider said:

These clowns lost me when dropped passes are credited to Fitz but a perfectly thrown pick-6 in wide-open Corey Graham's lap doesn't count cause he dropped it and "almosts" don't count. 

Which is funny, because if you said the same about the Stephen Hill, Jace Amaro, David Nelson etc. dropped passes then they'd be looking at you like "Did you just credit Geno Smith with passes that werent complete", while at the same time saying "If it wasnt for that dropped INT by so-and-so Geno would have had X-amount of INT's". 

 

Like I said, this offseason has been epic! 

[Maxman]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's the film of Geno Smith playing well:

You forgot the link:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/0ap3000000450449/Week-17-Jets-vs-Dolphins-highlights

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

that's just not true, they don;t regularly get outplayed for good percentages of games but either way they have possibly the greatest QB of all time which masks deficiencies. 

They regularly come from behind and win games late. I don't think he's the greatest Qb of all time but he's HOF. Hopefully not SCOTUS.

[slats]

13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

They regularly come from behind and win games late. I don't think he's the greatest Qb of all time but he's HOF. Hopefully not SCOTUS.

Something Fitzpatrick is basically incapable of. 

[Villain The Foe]

40 minutes ago, jetrider said:

These clowns lost me when dropped passes are credited to Fitz but a perfectly thrown pick-6 in wide-open Corey Graham's lap doesn't count cause he dropped it and "almosts" don't count. 

It's the level that they go that has me wondering. 

I've sat here and said that "If Geno averaged for 16 games what he did against the Raiders it would be the best single season in Jets history for a QB"...so I understand creating a narrative to support my feeling. It all goes downhill for me when you hear how terrible Geno was in the Raiders game, then when you prove them wrong they'll say that Geno's presence sucked the life out of the team lol. Or worse, when they say that Geno had a bad game against the Raiders yet when you show them every single Geno snap from the game proving otherwise they immediately change the subject by saying "but Geno sucks" or wont respond at all. Or worst of all, having their idea of "what sucks" in football (Geno's Raiders game) yet will literally have a book of excuses the moment someone mentions Fitz against the Bills. I've literally heard it all in regards to that game....from the weather, to it being Kembrell Thompkins fault. Not one of these guys will acknowledge that maybe it wasnt a bright idea to stare down Decker in the endzone and throw a pick that MeKelvin telegraphed because of the stare-down. The lack of being fair while still being supportive of your guy is why most of what I see cant be taken seriously.

 

It never counts when you're dealing with people who've made up their mind about the yound lad. I think Geno could be better than what we seen. Sure I think that there are better QB's out there (Glennon), but  I know for a fact that not having talent, protection and a coahing staff worth a damn directly expressed itself in Geno's play. I think we'll see a change in Geno. 

[jetrider]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It's the level that they go that has me wondering. 

I've sat here and said that "If Geno averaged for 16 games what he did against the Raiders it would be the best single season in Jets history for a QB"...so I understand creating a narrative to support my feeling. It all goes downhill for me when you hear how terrible Geno was in the Raiders game, then when you prove them wrong they'll say that Geno's presence sucked the life out of the team lol. Or worse, when they say that Geno had a bad game against the Raiders yet when you show them every single Geno snap from the game proving otherwise they immediately change the subject by saying "but Geno sucks" or wont respond at all. Or worst of all, having their idea of "what sucks" in football (Geno's Raiders game) yet will literally have a book of excuses the moment someone mentions Fitz against the Bills. I've literally heard it all in regards to that game....from the weather, to it being Kembrell Thompkins fault. Not one of these guys will acknowledge that maybe it wasnt a bright idea to stare down Decker in the endzone and throw a pick that MeKelvin telegraphed because of the stare-down. The lack of being fair while still being supportive of your guy is why most of what I see cant be taken seriously.

 

It never counts when you're dealing with people who've made up their mind about the yound lad. I think Geno could be better than what we seen. Sure I think that there are better QB's out there (Glennon), but  I know for a fact that not having talent, protection and a coahing staff worth a damn directly expressed itself in Geno's play. I think we'll see a change in Geno. 

"There's something in Fitz that he's better now than he's ever been."

LOL ... it's called a quality team. No doubt we'll see a different Geno too.

[AFJF]

19 minutes ago, Maxman said:

This isn't a Fitz vs Geno thing to me.

It is a Fitz is not good enough to win a Super Bowl so don't overpay him.  

Like if Fitz isn't the long term answer, which he isn't, what's the point in tying money up in him.  The Jets have offered him more money than any other team. The problem here is Fitz. I wanted him back but now I am hoping the Jets move on. If that means Geno,Petty or bringing back Matt Simms go for it. Fitz isn't the long term answer let's bring in 20 QBs until we find the right one.

I like Mac.  If he thinks Fitz is better than Geno, I want Fitz.  

I'm just glad that they've acquired 3 QBs (and trying to re-sign one of them) since arriving, even with Geno on the roster.

They recognize the need for a QB and they either:

a) don't think it's Geno, which is fine.

or

b ) They're wasting picks on multiple Geno back-ups and trying to throw away cap space on Fitz which would make very little sense.

[cant wait]

2 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

If ur not upset then why do u feel the need to answer him?

I came into this thread expecting to see some film study and all I got was a terrible video (that could have easily been explained in a single still image) and OP's whining about how terrible the fans are for not liking the weak content he's pushing. just once I'd like to have this debate based on some information of merit, instead of the usual "butgeno/butsanchez" blubbering, name calling, excuse making that happens every time fitzpatrick's play is questioned 

[Mainejet]

9 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I like Mac.  If he thinks Fitz is better than Geno, I want Fitz.  

I'm just glad that they've acquired 3 QBs (and trying to re-sign one of them) since arriving, even with Geno on the roster.

They recognize the need for a QB and they either:

a) don't think it's Geno, which is fine.

or

b ) They're wasting picks on multiple Geno back-ups and trying to throw away cap space on Fitz which would make very little sense.

There's no doubt Mac does not believe Geno is the answer. If he did, he would not have drafted 2 QB's and signed another. That's what all of these Geno fans are missing. They are consistently missing all of the logical conclusions you can draw from Mac's actions.

[Rangers9]

30 minutes ago, slats said:

Something Fitzpatrick is basically incapable of. 

Yeah, he's not Brady no kidding. 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

They regularly come from behind and win games late. I don't think he's the greatest Qb of all time but he's HOF. Hopefully not SCOTUS.

I think you are overestimating how many comebacks they make and underestimating Brady who is, w/o a doubt, either the best of all time or 2nd best.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Mainejet said:

And the HC will be a dead man walking if he selects Geno Smith.

I'll bet anything you're wrong.

Like you're pretty much all the time

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's the film of Geno Smith playing well:

The attempt at whatever totally misses the point.

whatever makes you feel good.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

The attempt at whatever totally misses the point.

whatever makes you feel good.  

The point is that there's nothing hypocritical about defending a player who actually had a good season while criticizing one who never has.  Fitz and Geno don't get equal treatment because one is decent and the other is terrible. 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

The point is that there's a big difference between defending a player who actually had a good season while criticizing one who never has.  Fitz and Geno don't get equal treatment because one is decent and the other is terrible. 

No the point was about fans complaining even when Fitz does something good some fans complain.   Even over something good.  I agree.  But I correctly pointed out just as some, you included BTW, did the same when Geno was doing something good.

You can spin it, twist and dance around it but you're being a hypocrite.  Sucks when it blows back in your face.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No the point was about fans complaining even when Fitz does something good some fans complain.   Even over something good.  I agree.  But I correctly pointed out just as some, you included BTW, did the same when Geno was doing something good.

You can spin it, twist and dance around it but you're being a hypocrite.  Sucks when it blows back in your face.  

lol.  Everything positive Geno does has nothing to do with games that matter.  That's the truth of the matter.  He always seems to have a great OTA or some nice practices, or even a Week 17 game that doesn't matter and gives people false hope.....but he never actually becomes a better QB.  Yet people want to point to those things like they're signs of great things in his future.  They don't matter.

[jetrider]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Everything positive Geno does has nothing to do with games that matter.  That's the truth of the matter.  He always seems to have a great OTA or some nice practices, or even a Week 17 game that doesn't matter and gives people false hope.....but he never actually becomes a better QB.  Yet people want to point to those things like they're signs of great things in his future.  They don't matter.

Took Fitz 11 years to break .500

[Big Blocker]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Yeah, he's not Brady no kidding. 

Wtf is it with this "Fitzpatrick is no Tom Brady!" Bs???   I can't believe people think that up and consider themselves reasonable people.

Still learn something everyday, I guess.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Everything positive Geno does has nothing to do with games that matter.  That's the truth of the matter.  He always seems to have a great OTA or some nice practices, or even a Week 17 game that doesn't matter and gives people false hope.....but he never actually becomes a better QB.  Yet people want to point to those things like they're signs of great things in his future.  They don't matter.

Soooo when has Fitz had a great game in a game that mattered?  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Took Fitz 11 years to break .500

And Geno is 12-21.  What's your point?

[Big Blocker]

14 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Took Fitz 11 years to break .500

More ancient history lessons.  Wonderful.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

This isn't a Fitz vs Geno thing to me.

It is a Fitz is not good enough to win a Super Bowl so don't overpay him.  

Like if Fitz isn't the long term answer, which he isn't, what's the point in tying money up in him.  The Jets have offered him more money than any other team. The problem here is Fitz. I wanted him back but now I am hoping the Jets move on. If that means Geno,Petty or bringing back Matt Simms go for it. Fitz isn't the long term answer let's bring in 20 QBs until we find the right one.

Geno lover.

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Everything positive Geno does has nothing to do with games that matter.  That's the truth of the matter.  He always seems to have a great OTA or some nice practices, or even a Week 17 game that doesn't matter and gives people false hope.....but he never actually becomes a better QB.  Yet people want to point to those things like they're signs of great things in his future.  They don't matter.

Do you even have a clue as to the conversation or are you just trying to make it a negative to protect yourself and your Fitzy. 

I said Geno was killed for practicing with WRs on his own time.  You want to bullshlt about other nonsense go ahead.  It just has nothing to do with the conversation.  Geno did something good, you tried to make it something different.  Had to protect Fitz.  I guess it's hard, you can't admit what Geno did was good.  Kind of like shltting on his good OTA by saying he always plays good at OTAs, when it was only once and he had the starting job. 

[56mehl56]

49 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And Geno is 12-21.  What's your point?

In the biggest game of his 11 year career , with the playoffs on the line - Fitz flat out sh*t the bed.

If Sanchez or Geno ever did that they would have been run out of town by mobs with torches and pitchforks.

Yet Jet fans want this guy desperately back to try his hand at a 12th season with a pay raise to boot.

[Jetsfan80]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you even have a clue as to the conversation or are you just trying to make it a negative to protect yourself and your Fitzy. 

I said Geno was killed for practicing with WRs on his own time.  You want to bullshlt about other nonsense go ahead.  It just has nothing to do with the conversation.  Geno did something good, you tried to make it something different.  Had to protect Fitz.  I guess it's hard, you can't admit what Geno did was good.  Kind of like shltting on his good OTA by saying he always plays good at OTAs, when it was only once and he had the starting job. 

Geno working out with some WR's falls under the category of "things that don't matter", yes.  Actual film of Fitz playing well in actual games, that matters.  But sure, I'm the one bullsh*tting.

[56mehl56]

55 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

More ancient history lessons.  Wonderful.

So using that argument Geno is 0-1 entering this season as his work under Rex and his ragtag offense are ancient history - correct??

[Rangers9]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

This isn't a Fitz vs Geno thing to me.

It is a Fitz is not good enough to win a Super Bowl so don't overpay him.  

Like if Fitz isn't the long term answer, which he isn't, what's the point in tying money up in him.  The Jets have offered him more money than any other team. The problem here is Fitz. I wanted him back but now I am hoping the Jets move on. If that means Geno,Petty or bringing back Matt Simms go for it. Fitz isn't the long term answer let's bring in 20 QBs until we find the right one.

So then sign him to a one year deal then.. If he signs the 1-12 it saves the Jets at least 3 mil maybe over time 12 mil. If he signs for less money like a 1-8 (which is the average) even better for the FO. The question is can he take us to the playoffs in 2016. I would think yes. We would be competitive. And can you win a SB if you make the playoffs. Well teams do get hot even not the best teams. The Giants proved it a few times. They beat an undefeated team in the SB. And their regular season record was 9-7. Sure you can catch lightning in a bottle as they did. If we win 9 or 10 games and things break right for us and our players believe in themselves (which they did until Mac got him fingers in the pie) we could have a great season. Nothing is guaranteed. But when you have a good team you go for it. You don't slack off and say you're going to build for the future. 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

So then sign him to a one year deal then.. If he signs the 1-12 it saves the Jets at least 3 mil maybe over time 12 mil. If he signs for less money like a 1-8 (which is the average) even better for the FO. The question is can he take us to the playoffs in 2016. I would think yes. We would be competitive. And can you win a SB if you make the playoffs. Well teams do get hot even not the best teams. The Giants proved it a few times. They beat an undefeated team in the SB. And their regular season record was 9-7. Sure lighting can strike in a bottle and it did for them. If we win 9 or 10 games and things break right for us and our players believe in themselves (which they did until Mac got him fingers in the pie) we could have a great season. Nothing is guaranteed. But when you have a good team you go for it. You don't slack off and say you're going to build for the future. 

Fitz has never been a big game QB, there's 11 years of evidence. What makes everyone think we have a better chance at the SB with him.

The argument for bringing Fitz back would be if Todd/Mike M felt they were on the hot seat, otherwise the only reason he'd be valuable is to help teach Petty and Hack as Fitz has more experience in Gailey's system. 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Fitz has never been a big game QB, there's 11 years of evidence. What makes everyone think we have a better chance at the SB with him.

The argument for bringing Fitz back would be if Todd/Mike M felt they were on the hot seat, otherwise the only reason he'd be valuable is to help teach Petty and Hack as Fitz has more experience in Gailey's system. 

Again we won ten games. You can win a Super Bowl on that. And Gailey doesn't need Fitz to be a high paid teacher. That's his job and the Qb coach. Even though he helped Petty a lot last year and was a good teammate. The idea is to win in 2016 something some fans can't even fathom. We are a legit contender,