The 2016 Defense and Fitzpatrick

[varjet]

Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

[shuler82]

Next time you or anyone else feels the need to start yet another Ryan Fitzpatrick/Geno Smith thread, please... take a deep breath, push your chair away from the computer, and punch yourself in the face.

There is not one new idea or statement in your post that hasn't already been said over and over and over and over and over again this off season. Someone make it stop.

[Mike135]

13 minutes ago, varjet said:

Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

You realize many (including myself) will take your line, "Do we really think Geno is leading it?", and change it to "Do we really think Ryan FITZPATRICK is leading it?"

Don't waste this team on a career backup no team wants.  Did he have decent numbers last year?  Sure, but overall last season made him an even worse choice than before...  he showed he chokes during important games.

[win4ever]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you in terms of the team being set up to win now.  The problem is that, Fitzpatrick is not the answer.  We kinda saw this with Sanchez, where he had a great team around him and he did average, and people expected him to help carry the team.  Fitz isn't going to do that.  He's a big regress to the mean candidate, before we even factor in his age.  He was mediocre against good defenses last year, and the Jets are going to face a ton of them.   

Second, Geno (talent wise) actually fits the system better, because the main aspect of a spread system is to gain favorable matchups, and essentially "spread" the defense thin.  

So a non Air-Raid type spread works on the basis, that the WRs are spread out, therefore the CBs are spread out.  To keep favorable angles, the safeties have to step back a bit as well.  So now, the offense reads the linebackers.  If the QB feels like they might drop back, then it's easier to run the ball.  If the LBs creep up, slant routes and outs are easier with more spacing.   Fitz has his limitations throwing deep, and defenses can take advantage.  To counteract the spread, defenses would move the safeties up, essentially daring the Jets to throw it deep without the ball hanging (and therefore giving the safeties and CBs time to recover) and beat them.  This now makes it harder to read defenses, because now you have to worry about the safeties creeping up along with the linebackers.  With Geno, he has a much stronger arm, and therefore the safeties have to play back further.  

The second resort for defenses (applied by the Eagles and others in crucial spots last year) is to have a wide defensive line attack the edges, while keeping a LB to spy on the RB.  The LB becomes a blitzer if the RB stays home.  This leaves huge holes up the middle for the QB to run.  Geno is faster than Fitz, so he's more likely to gain yardage than Fitz (although Fitz started to run a lot more as we moved on with the season last year).   

Just from physical standpoints, Geno fits the spread offense much better.  It's usually why most spread QBs that are successful in college are dual threat QBs because it's too many factors for the defense to account for.  Now, the unknown part about this whole thing is the mental side of the game for Geno.  However, reports from mini-camp and the off-season have indicated that he's processing the game much better than last year and the game has slowed down for him.  If the mental aspect has improved for Geno, then he's set up better.  

To me, it's a better bet that Geno improves at the mental aspect of the gain than Fitz sustaining his health and repeating last year.

[jetfan39]

39 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Next time you or anyone else feels the need to start yet another Ryan Fitzpatrick/Geno Smith thread, please... take a deep breath, push your chair away from the computer, and punch yourself in the face.

There is not one new idea or statement in your post that hasn't already been said over and over and over and over and over again this off season. Someone make it stop.

and with all of the geno/fritz comparisons I don't know of one poster who has had a change of heart and went over to the other side

[Mike135]

5 minutes ago, jetfan39 said:

and with all of the geno/fritz comparisons I don't know of one poster who has had a change of heart and went over to the other side

Maybe not yet, but I think @Rangers9 is close to cracking.  Another week and he'll be pulling for Geno.

[Raideraholic]

6 hours ago, varjet said:Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

Jmo I don't see the Jets defense being a top five defense next year.( more 7-10 range).   Despite the upgrades on paper at the positions you mention , I think they take a step back as  a defense.

  They are playing better teams next year that  have better offense lines .( neutralize Jets advantage they have  on the defenseline).

The CB position could be there biggest reason the defense takes a step back.  Yes they still have have Revis- a  top tier CB , but the other CB positions  is where the big questions marks come in.( where good offense will exploit them)    Revis has clearly lost a step, and The Jets will be facing some very fast Wr's that could pose big problems for the Revis of today.( Aj Green, Antonio Brown, Sammy Watkins, Mike Wallace - with Flacco( my comeback player of the year, Arizona Wr's etc ).

For as good as Darron Lee might eventually be as cover lb, he is still a rookie and going to  experience growing pains .( it takes more than  just running very fast to be effective in coverage at the NFL level). 

Last you have to see what the loss of Snacks has on the running game.  With what the Jets have still on the defenseline, and the upgrade at Olb positions, you expect them to still be effective there.    Still have to wait to see if that is still the case,  as you can't dismiss how effective Snacks was dealing with the double team blocks.   Steve Mclendon a different type of Nt than Snacks, and worth watching if that become a problem 

 

[YankeeJet22]

7 hours ago, varjet said:

Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

No.

[YankeeJet22]

7 hours ago, win4ever said:

I don't think anyone disagrees with you in terms of the team being set up to win now.  The problem is that, Fitzpatrick is not the answer.  We kinda saw this with Sanchez, where he had a great team around him and he did average, and people expected him to help carry the team.  Fitz isn't going to do that.  He's a big regress to the mean candidate, before we even factor in his age.  He was mediocre against good defenses last year, and the Jets are going to face a ton of them.   

Second, Geno (talent wise) actually fits the system better, because the main aspect of a spread system is to gain favorable matchups, and essentially "spread" the defense thin.  

So a non Air-Raid type spread works on the basis, that the WRs are spread out, therefore the CBs are spread out.  To keep favorable angles, the safeties have to step back a bit as well.  So now, the offense reads the linebackers.  If the QB feels like they might drop back, then it's easier to run the ball.  If the LBs creep up, slant routes and outs are easier with more spacing.   Fitz has his limitations throwing deep, and defenses can take advantage.  To counteract the spread, defenses would move the safeties up, essentially daring the Jets to throw it deep without the ball hanging (and therefore giving the safeties and CBs time to recover) and beat them.  This now makes it harder to read defenses, because now you have to worry about the safeties creeping up along with the linebackers.  With Geno, he has a much stronger arm, and therefore the safeties have to play back further.  

The second resort for defenses (applied by the Eagles and others in crucial spots last year) is to have a wide defensive line attack the edges, while keeping a LB to spy on the RB.  The LB becomes a blitzer if the RB stays home.  This leaves huge holes up the middle for the QB to run.  Geno is faster than Fitz, so he's more likely to gain yardage than Fitz (although Fitz started to run a lot more as we moved on with the season last year).   

Just from physical standpoints, Geno fits the spread offense much better.  It's usually why most spread QBs that are successful in college are dual threat QBs because it's too many factors for the defense to account for.  Now, the unknown part about this whole thing is the mental side of the game for Geno.  However, reports from mini-camp and the off-season have indicated that he's processing the game much better than last year and the game has slowed down for him.  If the mental aspect has improved for Geno, then he's set up better.  

To me, it's a better bet that Geno improves at the mental aspect of the gain than Fitz sustaining his health and repeating last year.

Yes. 

Great post, and you didn't even bring up the money and wasted cap space potentially  used on Fitz that can be better utilized. 

[CrazyCarl40]

I don't see the defense being as good as last year. The defensive line is very good, probably great. It really depends on how much they miss Snacks. Could be more than they imagined. 

Linebacker is improved, but you couldn't get much worse than last year. That said, on the outside they will be relying on a 2nd year player to take a big leap and a rookie to start right away. I'm hopeful they both do great, but there will be growing pains. 

The secondary will likely take a step back, especially if they're relying on Skrine, Williams, and Milliner to play major minutes. Williams was perfect in a backup role. Can he play on the outside regularly? Skrine is best suited inside, but he's consistently ranked as a terrible coverage corner. Sure, he's a great blitzer but paying him 8 million dollars, he has to be better. We all know what Milliner is and that's not very good, even when healthy. There isn't as much depth to the position either. Safety will be fine. Pryor, Gilchrist, Miles and others will have to be ballhawks with the way the corners are going to be. 

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

Yes. 

Great post, and you didn't even bring up the money and wasted cap space potentially  used on Fitz that can be better utilized. 

Do tell how this hypothetical money is going to be put to better use?

[Joe Jets fan]

8 hours ago, varjet said:

Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

If after three training camps, three years of preseason games Petty is not ready to play he gets cut and replaced.  I understand a QB needing to sit and learn a little but they also don't have to be perfectly ready when they start playing.  You can only learn so much on the sidelines.  

 

[Villain The Foe]

8 hours ago, varjet said:

Without being patronizing, my current feeling is that the Defense this year is Top 3.   For the first time in I can remember, they are going to put real OLBs on the field.  The ILBs are improved.   The DL is the DL-Mo will be motivated, as will SR.  Revis will have a bounce back year, and I can even see Milliner contributing.  Cromartie is gone.  

The Offense has key skill players over 30.  Do we really think Geno is leading it?  The Jets can be really competitive this year and fill seats.   They are just not constructed to put too many eggs in the QB basket like other teams.

It has been pointed out that the $12mm number for Fitz is in "the donut hole." That may be right.  But given the money spent for players to support a player that has been marginal historically, that is the fair number.   The 2016 salary cap cannot support more.  I think the issue is with 2017.    Geno Smith will not be a Jet in 2017.  Hackenburg and Petty will not be ready to start in 2017.  Decker, Marshall and Forte will still be playing effectively in 2017.  The Jets' salary cap is in great shape in 2017.  If Hackenburg or Petty start in 2018, it will be for cheap.  

I think the answer is to guarantee Fitz more money for 2017.  That is what he is looking for.  It makes too much sense.  There are many other players that will not survive 2017 that can pay for that.

Well, being top 3 wouldnt be far off from last year, we were the 4th best defense in 2015 and ranked the 2nd best rushing defense. I love the enthusiasm but its hard for me to agree with atleast some of this. I have alot of faith in Jordan Jenkins, more so than I do Darron Lee, not because I think Lee is bad but because I see Jenkins as more of a traditional LB'er and these speedy LB'ers that were once safeties can sometimes be hit-or-miss in the league. With that said though, I will only disagree for the fact that they're rookies and we have no idea what they're actually capable of. I hope for the best of course, but I cant really confirm that the Jets are putting "real OLB's" (Lee is ILB) on the field. I can say that im most excited for Lorenzo Mauldin though. I remember at the beginning of FA people stating that we "needed an pass rusher", I think our rusher is already on the team in Mauldin.

 

Also, I think Revis had a really good year in 2015, nothing for him to bounce back from unless you're speaking about his wrist injury. Im also not so sure that Geno wont be a Jet in 2017. Geno can be tagged. Many Jets fans are dismissing him from starting this season because of a QB who's not even on the team. If Geno Smith plays well and the Jets make the playoff's expect Geno to possibly get the tag. Why? Because you dont have to rush Hackenberg AND you may have just found your answer at the QB position if Geno could do it again for a 2nd season. This isnt about "feelings or emotions" but about results. If Geno is able to do the job, it wont matter how Jets fans feel. If he's not able to do the job then it will be Hackenberg's turn. 

I dont know how we can so easily dismiss a guy who is "currently the QB of the Jets" for a guy who isnt. Concerning ourselves about Fitz money for 2017 when Fitz cant even sign a contract for 2016...meanwhile the guy that is currently taking reps and preparing for the Jets season is talked around as if he doesnt exist. 

 

We'll see. Good post though! 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

Jmo I don't see the Jets defense being a top five defense next year.( more 7-10 range).   Despite the upgrades on paper at the positions you mention , I think they take a step back as  a defense.

  They are playing better teams next year that  have better offense lines .( neutralize Jets advantage they have  on the defenseline).

The CB position could be there biggest reason the defense takes a step back.  Yes they still have have Revis- a  top tier CB , but the other CB positions  is where the big questions marks come in.( where good offense will exploit them)    Revis has clearly lost a step, and The Jets will be facing some very fast Wr's that could pose big problems for the Revis of today.( Aj Green, Antonio Brown, Sammy Watkins, Mike Wallace - with Flacco( my comeback player of the year, Arizona Wr's etc ).

For as good as Darron Lee might eventually be as cover lb, he is still a rookie and going to  experience growing pains .( it takes more than  just running very fast to be effective in coverage at the NFL level). 

Last you have to see what the loss of Snacks has on the running game.  With what the Jets have still on the defenseline, and the upgrade at Olb positions, you expect them to still be effective there.    Still have to wait to see if that is still the case,  as you can't dismiss how effective Snacks was dealing with the double team blocks.   Steve Mclendon a different type of Nt than Snacks, and worth watching if that become a problem 

 

Um, ok,lol. Snacks is a great run stuffer. The Jets still have Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson & Leonard Williams! All 3 potential all pros who rush the passer & shed blocks and stop the run! McLendon will feel like he died & went to defensive football heaven playing alongside these guys. We still have David Harris, though older, he's a classic BIG STRONG run stuffing LB.

Anyone who thinks teams will play the Jets riding the back of their running game will be playing right into the Jets hands. Belichick is one of the best game planners in HISTORY and he sits Blount & spreads it out vs the Jets. Teams that come in planning to run on 1st & 2nd down vs our Dline, I say THANK YOU, even without Harrison. Even the 350 LB Simon should be enough between the studs we roll out on our Dline.

[Joe Jets fan]

17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well, being top 3 wouldnt be far off from last year, we were the 4th best defense in 2015 and ranked the 2nd best rushing defense. I love the enthusiasm but its hard for me to agree with atleast some of this. I have alot of faith in Jordan Jenkins, more so than I do Darron Lee, not because I think Lee is bad but because I see Jenkins as more of a traditional LB'er and these speedy LB'ers that were once safeties can sometimes be hit-or-miss in the league. With that said though, I will only disagree for the fact that they're rookies and we have no idea what they're actually capable of. I hope for the best of course, but I cant really confirm that the Jets are putting "real OLB's" (Lee is ILB) on the field. I can say that im most excited for Lorenzo Mauldin though. I remember at the beginning of FA people stating that we "needed an pass rusher", I think our rusher is already on the team in Mauldin.

 

Also, I think Revis had a really good year in 2015, nothing for him to bounce back from unless you're speaking about his wrist injury. Im also not so sure that Geno wont be a Jet in 2017. Geno can be tagged. Many Jets fans are dismissing him from starting this season because of a QB who's not even on the team. If Geno Smith plays well and the Jets make the playoff's expect Geno to possibly get the tag. Why? Because you dont have to rush Hackenberg AND you may have just found your answer at the QB position if Geno could do it again for a 2nd season. This isnt about "feelings or emotions" but about results. If Geno is able to do the job, it wont matter how Jets fans feel. If he's not able to do the job then it will be Hackenberg's turn. 

I dont know how we can so easily dismiss a guy who is "currently the QB of the Jets" for a guy who isnt. Concerning ourselves about Fitz money for 2017 when Fitz cant even sign a contract for 2016...meanwhile the guy that is currently taking reps and preparing for the Jets season is talked around as if he doesnt exist. 

 

We'll see. Good post though! 

Lmfao.   Are you really suggesting Geno Smith be paid over $20 mil a year??    Lol

 

put the pipe down and get to rehab, your shot. 

[YankeeJet22]

47 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Do tell how this hypothetical money is going to be put to better use?

Really, are you really asking this seriously?  $12mil on Fitz this year is insane, and on top of that the OP wants to give him even more in '17! crazy sh1t Crazy Carl.

But I'll play.  Mo this year, Sheldon next year.  A potential Free Agent in '17 perhaps? What if Amaro breaks out this year? Need some money? SORRY we have it tied up on a 35 year old backup QB.  You can always use money/cap space.  I don't see the point of using it on Fitz.

[Jetster]

22 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

If after three training camps, three years of preseason games Petty is not ready to play he gets cut and replaced.  I understand a QB needing to sit and learn a little but they also don't have to be perfectly ready when they start playing.  You can only learn so much on the sidelines.  

 

Agreed! How freaking long do you wait? 3 years has to be enough. When you look at Petty, you see a very strong guy in the Brett Favre build, strong arm, can move, very athletic, who had a great college career. He better show me something in preseason games this August or just move on. I keep hoping that we're going to get lucky & maybe Petty turns out to be that guy. Playing QB in the NFL should be easier than ever with the rules constantly leaning towards the offense.

A guy like Petty can roll out & threaten deep, he can take off running ala Wilson and use the slide rule to frustrate defenses keep LBs & safeties close to the LOS so he can burn them with slants & seam routes. Let's hope Petty blows us away this summer and stirs up some excitement. No one knows until a player actually plays in live action, he could be a throwback type like Joe Kapp but with a more accurate stronger arm. Just once I'd love to have a tough minded physical QB who gains respect from his teammates & lifts their play up to another level. We actually saw that with Fitz last year but our season was cut short because of his pop gun arm in the cold buffalo winds. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Lmfao.   Are you really suggesting Geno Smith be paid over $20 mil a year??    Lol

 

put the pipe down and get to rehab, your shot. 

Im suggesting that Geno could be tagged if he has a season worth tagging him for. Kirk Cousins was tagged for having such a season. If you think that Macc would let a QB walk because of the "fanbase" feelings, then I suggest putting down the marijuana. lol. 

[CrazyCarl40]

34 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

Really, are you really asking this seriously?  $12mil on Fitz this year is insane, and on top of that the OP wants to give him even more in '17! crazy sh1t Crazy Carl.

But I'll play.  Mo this year, Sheldon next year.  A potential Free Agent in '17 perhaps? What if Amaro breaks out this year? Need some money? SORRY we have it tied up on a 35 year old backup QB.  You can always use money/cap space.  I don't see the point of using it on Fitz.

There is already money for Mo this year. Sheldon is already paid for next season, so is Amaro. The Jets will have lots of cuttable contracts next season and plenty of cash. And if Fitz is brought back, he's likely the starter this year and next. Hack and Petty won't be ready to start in the beginning of '17.

[slats]

29 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im suggesting that Geno could be tagged if he has a season worth tagging him for. Kirk Cousins was tagged for having such a season. If you think that Macc would let a QB walk because of the "fanbase" feelings, then I suggest putting down the marijuana. lol. 

A franchise tag on Geno Smith? Wow. 

Geno would have to do a complete 180°, and completely win over the locker room for the Jets to even consider extending him beyond this year, let alone putting a tag on him (seriously?). That punch to his face and his teammates subsequent lack of support was probably irreversible. I'm down with saving the $15M guaranteed, rolling with Geno, and hoping he plays well enough to land the Jets a comp pick in 2018, but that's about as far down that road as I'm willing to travel. Geno is only still here because he's cheap and the QB market is terrible. I'd imagine he's looking forward getting out of here almost as much as some Jets fans are looking forward to it. 

[Villain The Foe]

28 minutes ago, slats said:

A franchise tag on Geno Smith? Wow. 

Geno would have to do a complete 180°, and completely win over the locker room for the Jets to even consider extending him beyond this year, let alone putting a tag on him (seriously?). That punch to his face and his teammates subsequent lack of support was probably irreversible. I'm down with saving the $15M guaranteed, rolling with Geno, and hoping he plays well enough to land the Jets a comp pick in 2018, but that's about as far down that road as I'm willing to travel. Geno is only still here because he's cheap and the QB market is terrible. I'd imagine he's looking forward getting out of here almost as much as some Jets fans are looking forward to it. 

Have you ever heard the term "What a difference a year makes"? It happens in the league every season. 

 

If (and im saying IF slats) Geno has a very good year, make it to the playoffs and are competitive in the playoffs do you think that Macc will simply cut him loose solely because of a punch from a guy with a history of violence that happened 2 seasons ago? IF that was true then they could simply resign Fitzpatrick and cut Geno right now, especially since they drafted Hackenberg for the future. Thats not the case though. 

 

Its not like im saying that they're going to give Geno a 5 years $130 million dollar contract, I could understand the "wow" factor in that. But to think that its impossible for Geno to have a complete 180 when the team itself is a complete 180 in terms of talent and coaching along with Geno getting to sit and learn...making mistakes behind the scenes during practice, being able to evaluate those mistakes and learn from them without every NY media camera in his face isnt as far fetched as the statement may sound upon initially reading it. 

 

Sure, Geno is only still here because he's cheap, but he's here, which means that he has an opportunity to capitalize off the situation. I would also say that Geno is still here because you dont want to go into the season with Petty being your most experienced QB. Also, I doubt that Geno Smith is looking forward to getting out of this situation if this situation allows him to start. If Geno were to leave today he'll basically be a back up. The Jets have an opportunity at his position that he can take advantage of. People feelings change the moment a season is complete. Let Geno have a very good/great season and watch how quickly this fanbase changes its outlook. It'll go from "Geno's Stupid" to "Macc would be stupid if he doesnt atleast tag Geno just to see if he can do it again given his youth". <<<<<<We both been Jets fans long enough to know that what I just said is true. 

[Rangers9]

8 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Maybe not yet, but I think @Rangers9 is close to cracking.  Another week and he'll be pulling for Geno.

Mike, I'm not against Geno and don't think he's the worst Qb in the NFL just one of the worst. And our team can do a lot better than him. He has no track record to start this year most of his games were mediocre. The excuses are a joke, if the personnel was so bad (which it wasn't) and the reason he sucked than what about the teams Fitz played for his entire career. All teams under .500 except the 2014 Texans and he was for most of the year their starting Qb. Let's be real here and stop the silliness. If they don't sign Fitz I'm all for Geno. But Geno is not our BAP at Qb and it's not even close. 

[slats]

25 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Have you ever heard the term "What a difference a year makes"? It happens in the league every season. 

 

If (and im saying IF slats) Geno has a very good year, make it to the playoffs and are competitive in the playoffs do you think that Macc will simply cut him loose solely because of a punch from a guy with a history of violence that happened 2 seasons ago? IF that was true then they could simply resign Fitzpatrick and cut Geno right now, especially since they drafted Hackenberg for the future. Thats not the case though. 

 

Its not like im saying that they're going to give Geno a 5 years $130 million dollar contract, I could understand the "wow" factor in that. But to think that its impossible for Geno to have a complete 180 when the team itself is a complete 180 in terms of talent and coaching along with Geno getting to sit and learn...making mistakes behind the scenes during practice, being able to evaluate those mistakes and learn from them without every NY media camera in his face isnt as far fetched as the statement may sound upon initially reading it. 

 

Sure, Geno is only still here because he's cheap, but he's here, which means that he has an opportunity to capitalize off the situation. I would also say that Geno is still here because you dont want to go into the season with Petty being your most experienced QB. Also, I doubt that Geno Smith is looking forward to getting out of this situation if this situation allows him to start. If Geno were to leave today he'll basically be a back up. The Jets have an opportunity at his position that he can take advantage of. People feelings change the moment a season is complete. Let Geno have a very good/great season and watch how quickly this fanbase changes its outlook. It'll go from "Geno's Stupid" to "Macc would be stupid if he doesnt atleast tag Geno just to see if he can do it again given his youth". <<<<<<We both been Jets fans long enough to know that what I just said is true. 

You missed my point entirely. It's not the punch, it was his teammates reaction to it. Only Marshall displayed any support for Geno at all. The rest of the team was dead silent. He didn't have the teams' respect, at all, and I really don't know how much he's done behind the scenes -if anything- to build some trust. Has be been humbled? Does he accept his role in that incident? He has/had a lot of work to do to change the perception that he's an entitled asshole. Has he done it? That's the 180° I'm talking about, not his performance on the field. He'd have to have a spectacular year on the field to change the way his teammates and the fans think about him. And while I'm all for rolling the dice with him this year, I'd be hoping for better than Fitzpatrick, but don't really think spectacular is in the mix. 

I suspect he still gets sideways glances from teammates who feel he has a lot to prove on and off the field, and that he'd probably be better served starting off somewhere else with a relatively clean slate. And I think it's roughly a 99% chance that that's what happens after this season. 

[CrazyCarl40]

The Franchise QB price tag this season is 18 million. With what Luck just got paid that figure is going up. There is zero chance Geno gets tagged as the franchise player next season. They don't even want to give Mo an extension, one he's ACTUALLY worth, but people talking about tagging Geno Smith next season. Summer heat is getting to people.

[Rexorcism]

3 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Jmo I don't see the Jets defense being a top five defense next year.( more 7-10 range).   Despite the upgrades on paper at the positions you mention , I think they take a step back as  a defense.

  They are playing better teams next year that  have better offense lines .( neutralize Jets advantage they have  on the defenseline).

The CB position could be there biggest reason the defense takes a step back.  Yes they still have have Revis- a  top tier CB , but the other CB positions  is where the big questions marks come in.( where good offense will exploit them)    Revis has clearly lost a step, and The Jets will be facing some very fast Wr's that could pose big problems for the Revis of today.( Aj Green, Antonio Brown, Sammy Watkins, Mike Wallace - with Flacco( my comeback player of the year, Arizona Wr's etc ).

For as good as Darron Lee might eventually be as cover lb, he is still a rookie and going to  experience growing pains .( it takes more than  just running very fast to be effective in coverage at the NFL level). 

Last you have to see what the loss of Snacks has on the running game.  With what the Jets have still on the defenseline, and the upgrade at Olb positions, you expect them to still be effective there.    Still have to wait to see if that is still the case,  as you can't dismiss how effective Snacks was dealing with the double team blocks.   Steve Mclendon a different type of Nt than Snacks, and worth watching if that become a problem 

 

Thats too bad, Raid...was gonna make a Raiders make playoffs prediction, now they're back to 6-10

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, slats said:

You missed my point entirely. It's not the punch, it was his teammates reaction to it. Only Marshall displayed any support for Geno at all. The rest of the team was dead silent. He didn't have the teams' respect, at all, and I really don't know how much he's done behind the scenes -if anything- to build some trust. Has be been humbled? Does he accept his role in that incident? He has/had a lot of work to do to change the perception that he's an entitled a&#036;&#036;hole. Has he done it? That's the 180° I'm talking about, not his performance on the field. He'd have to have a spectacular year on the field to change the way his teammates and the fans think about him. And while I'm all for rolling the dice with him this year, I'd be hoping for better than Fitzpatrick, but don't really think spectacular is in the mix. 

I suspect he still gets sideways glances from teammates who feel he has a lot to prove on and off the field, and that he'd probably be better served starting off somewhere else with a relatively clean slate. And I think it's roughly a 99% chance that that's what happens after this season. 

No, I didnt miss your point and I dont think you missed mine either, I just think you dont consider my point which is If Geno has such a season as I stated that the incident of 2 seasons ago will more than likely be pardoned. My reason behind that is for the fact that the Jets are realistically considering starting Geno TODAY even with the reaction of his teammates last year. If thats the case then why not tag him if they are winning and he's producing when this season is said and done? The goal is to find a quarterback, and winning cures alot of problems along with trust and the correct guidance (Not Rex Ryan for example).

 

What you're not considering is that fact that they may already be considering moving forward with him atleast for this season, and if he responds in a positive manner in respect to performance and maturity then the teammates reaction of yesteryear is simply a moot point which will be something only held onto by Jets fans and not the front office in my opinion. And at the end of the day its like you said, you dont know how much he's done behind the scenes....and neither have I. The best thing to do is to see the season transpire and how he handles it. 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Franchise QB price tag this season is 18 million. With what Luck just got paid that figure is going up. There is zero chance Geno gets tagged as the franchise player next season. They don't even want to give Mo an extension, one he's ACTUALLY worth, but people talking about tagging Geno Smith next season. Summer heat is getting to people.

To say that Geno has zero chance of being tagged (based on the spoken scenario) because of what Luck just got paid along with the fact that they wont give Mo an extension is literally laughable. 

#1. The price goes up every year as well as the salary cap. 

#2. Mo Wilkerson isnt a QB and the last I checked, this is a QB league, the only position that is highly valued by ALL TEAMS. Mo Wilkerson plays a position in which the level of value varies depending on the team and their philosophy. Sure, Mo Wilkerson is worth a contract, but not to the Jets especially since they have Sheldon Richardson and Leo Williams under rookie contracts...basically putting the Jets in a situation to where they dont have to issue such an extension since they basically have Wilks replacement already on the team. 

#3. To use such excuses to make the statement that Geno has zero chance of possibly being tagged without even mentioning personal performance is why I cant help but to shake my head when I read stuff like this. If Geno Smith has a probowl or all-pro type season (just an example) you're telling me that there's zero chance of the Jets at least tagging him because of Mo's situation and what Luck got paid....though its the JETS that are looking for an answer at the position that Geno just became an probowler/all-pro at? And let me pipe it down just a bit, I wont even mention probowler/all-pro, but just having a guy who puts up Kirk Cousins numbers of last year, you telling me that the Jets will just let that go because Luck raised the bar with his contract, yet forgetting to mention that rise of the salary cap? 

 

This isnt summer heat getting to people, this is about people fabricating scenarios in order to give Geno no chance in the world to amount to anything. Thats hate, not heat. 

[Raideraholic]

On July 14, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jetster said:

Um, ok,lol. Snacks is a great run stuffer. The Jets still have Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson & Leonard Williams! All 3 potential all pros who rush the passer & shed blocks and stop the run! McLendon will feel like he died & went to defensive football heaven playing alongside these guys. We still have David Harris, though older, he's a classic BIG STRONG run stuffing LB.

Anyone who thinks teams will play the Jets riding the back of their running game will be playing right into the Jets hands. Belichick is one of the best game planners in HISTORY and he sits Blount & spreads it out vs the Jets. Teams that come in planning to run on 1st & 2nd down vs our Dline, I say THANK YOU, even without Harrison. Even the 350 LB Simon should be enough between the studs we roll out on our Dline.

Neither of those  three defense lineman  you mention are a Nt.   The Jets are majority time are a 3-4 defense .( so only two of the three will be on the field) . Again you can dismiss Snacks importance to the run defense, but it's huge when your Nt can handle double team blocks, and still be hard to move off the line of scrimmage. Mclendon isn't that type of Nt, and it's going to be interesting when teams double team him . He gets driven back you don't think that will have an effect on the run defense effectiveness  .   26 year old Simon has yet to play in one NFL game, and I would say lets see what he can do in a real game before you proclaim him an answer there.

yes you can bet teams on the Jets schedule next year  will try to run the football on the Jets defense( Kc, Rams, and Ravens) . The running game is a big part of their offense.   In the Chiefs case they would love to get David Harris matched up on Jamaal Charles in coverage.  ( can expect them to exploit that matchup when ever possible.

[NYs Stepchild]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Neither of those  three defense lineman  you mention are a Nt.   The Jets are majority time are a 3-4 defense .( so only two of the three will be on the field) . Again you can dismiss Snacks importance to the run defense, but it's huge when your Nt can handle double team blocks, and still be hard to move off the line of scrimmage. Mclendon isn't that type of Nt, and it's going to be interesting when teams double team him . He gets driven back you don't think that will have an effect on the run defense effectiveness  .   26 year old Simon has yet to play in one NFL game, and I would say lets see what he can do in a real game before you proclaim him an answer there.

yes you can bet teams on the Jets schedule next year  will try to run the football on the Jets defense( Kc, Rams, and Ravens) . The running game is a big part of their offense.   In the Chiefs case they would love to get David Harris matched up on Jamaal Charles in coverage.  ( can expect them to exploit that matchup when ever possible.

Check the numbers on Mclendon. The Steelers gave up almost no rushing yardage with him in at NT last year. They gave up around 2 more yards per carry with him out.