Report: Fitzpatrick puts House up for Rent

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

There's a certain segment of the fanbase that are Front Office Homers.  The situation you refer to includes not only those who do not know the game and think Smith is a good prospect to take over.  It also includes those pissed at Fitzpatrick because he's in a dispute with the FO.

But of course Fitzpatrick's dispute does not make Smith a better player.

It will work its way out one way or another.

You're right on about that one. To them the FO and Mac can do no wrong. And everything has to be 100% their way. Which is not always in the best interest of the team. We've seen this ad infinitum over the years with this FO and this owner. Since when do Jets fans not criticize these guys. Even if you don't like Fitz this standoff is idiotic. 

[Big Blocker]

46 minutes ago, slats said:

This certain segment of the fanbase exists only in your mind.

There are many different reasons some fans are willing to go with Geno over Fitz this year. Many fans simply weren't seduced by Fitz, recognizing the ease of schedule, the weakness of defenses he faced, the advantage of having Marshall and Decker - and still only managing to equal Geno's comp% and ypa from 2014, when -as we've heard many times- he was the worst QB in the league. Others point to Geno's physical advantages. Or feel that the team is merely spinning its wheels with Fitzpatrick, who peaked last year and is likely to be exposed against stronger competition this year. 

For me, it's simple: I doubt Fitz is worth $10 more than Geno, let alone $8, 10, 15, 24M. This is where I become a "front office homer," because I agree with their stance that Fitz has value as a three year mentor, but not as a one year starter. 

Geno was benched in 2014, returned, and played reasonably well with a healthy Decker and Harvin to finish the year. I think he'll benefit from Gailey's coaching, Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte, an improved defense, hopefully an improved special teams, and from his belated -but necessary- year on the bench to sit and learn. He'll make bone-headed plays, sure, but he'll also make bigger plays. He can stretch the field in ways Fitzpatrick just can't. He can make use of a Devin Smith.

I really, honestly, don't believe that there'd be much, if any, difference in the won-loss record with Geno over Fitz, but that with Geno at QB the games will be more exciting to watch (for better and worse). Is there a chance Geno could crap the bed? Of course there is! But I think he has a chance to be better than Fitz, too. And I can't imagine Fitzpatrick's pea-shooter winning playoff games on the road - should he inexplicably finally make the playoffs for the first time in his career. 

If Fitz signs the three year deal on the table, fine - even though I don't think he's worth it. But if the Jets cave and offer him his one year deal, I'll be very disappointed. #FOH

A Front Office Homer is a fan who usually if not always takes the side of management in disputes with players.  Your particular position and reasons for it are precisely that and do not explain the FO Homer phenomenon.

I have been a poster on a few different boards for Jet fans, and feel I have good reason to say there is such a segment of the fanbase.

[drdetroit]

Wgas wgaf

[Big Blocker]

15 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You're right on about that one. To them the FO and Mac can do no wrong. And everything has to be 100% their way. Which is not always in the best interest of the team. We've seen this ad infinitum over the years with this FO and this owner. Since when do Jets fans not criticize these guys. Even if you don't like Fitz this standoff is idiotic. 

The argument that is often put forward by FO Homers involves the cap.  But that is an argument made more vociferously BEFORE a dispute is resolved.  Once the dispute is resolved, the concern goes away even if the result does create cap implications.

I remain hopeful that in fact the FO will be able to resolve this situation, and in fact may already have the deal in motion. 

But if it is not, it is simply stupid to insist that the contract with Fitz be a 3 year deal if that means tanking the 16 season because they end up playing Smith.  And to claim Fitz is no better than Smith is not the point, since it is inherent in the FO's position that they think Fitz IS better.  Some fan posting here that Smith is equal to Fitz or close enough not to make it worth paying Fitz above a certain amount is meaningless in this context, since the FO clearly thinks at least for 16 that they are willing to pay Fitz much more than Smith.

But if that is their perception, following a strategy that could end up tanking 16 (as they see it) is stupid if it results from insisting on a 3 year deal.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

The argument that is often put forward by FO Homers involves the cap.  But that is an argument made more vociferously BEFORE a dispute is resolved.  Once the dispute is resolved, the concern goes away even if the result does create cap implications.

I remain hopeful that in fact the FO will be able to resolve this situation, and in fact may already have the deal in motion. 

But if it is not, it is simply stupid to insist that the contract with Fitz be a 3 year deal if that means tanking the 16 season because they end up playing Smith.  And to claim Fitz is no better than Smith is not the point, since it is inherent in the FO's position that they think Fitz IS better.  Some fan posting here that Smith is equal to Fitz or close enough not to make it worth paying Fitz above a certain amount is meaningless in this context, since the FO clearly thinks at least for 16 that they are willing to pay Fitz much more than Smith.

But if that is their perception, following a strategy that could end up tanking 16 (as they see it) is stupid if it results from insisting on a 3 year deal.

Until they alter their offer, their position is that Fitz is better than Geno as a potential mentor/backup, but not necessarily as just the starting QB in 2016. And that makes complete sense. Fitz displays better leadership skills, is more social with the players, is more likely to help the kids, etc. 

We'll see what happens. To me, this is an example when the front office is completely in the right. They value Fitz for a certain job (3 year mentor), and have the only offer out there to him. There is absolutely no reason for them to negotiate essentially against themselves - especially if they're not as frightened of starting Geno as some fans are. I suspect that if they believed that starting Geno equated tanking the season, that they would've moved onto Fitz' preferred one year deal a long time ago. 

Personally, I think Fitz'll blink, in that he'd be a fool not to. 

[joewilly12]

The thread title is misleading Fitzpatrick didn't put his house up for rent the realtor handling the lease did after he didn't renew the lease.

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

The argument that is often put forward by FO Homers involves the cap.  But that is an argument made more vociferously BEFORE a dispute is resolved.  Once the dispute is resolved, the concern goes away even if the result does create cap implications.

I remain hopeful that in fact the FO will be able to resolve this situation, and in fact may already have the deal in motion. 

But if it is not, it is simply stupid to insist that the contract with Fitz be a 3 year deal if that means tanking the 16 season because they end up playing Smith.  And to claim Fitz is no better than Smith is not the point, since it is inherent in the FO's position that they think Fitz IS better.  Some fan posting here that Smith is equal to Fitz or close enough not to make it worth paying Fitz above a certain amount is meaningless in this context, since the FO clearly thinks at least for 16 that they are willing to pay Fitz much more than Smith.

But if that is their perception, following a strategy that could end up tanking 16 (as they see it) is stupid if it results from insisting on a 3 year deal.

Look the cap will change in 2017 based on present contracts and players they might decide to cut. You really don't know how much cap space you're going to have. And these are not simple issues you can find out about in Sportrac, etc. All players take a cap hit of some sort and Qbs more than most. And you have to budget for the Qb position unless your decision is to go with a young starter on a rookie contract like Mariota. If you can't sign a Qb because you're worried about future cap problems then don't sign him. It's not a viable reason because both sides can work it out. The idea of no compromise in a negotiation after 6 months is mind boggling. And only one offer from management the entire time. My guess this goes more to Woody than to Mac. We all know that big decisions go through him. 

[Big Blocker]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

Until they alter their offer, their position is that Fitz is better than Geno as a potential mentor/backup, but not necessarily as just the starting QB in 2016. And that makes complete sense. Fitz displays better leadership skills, is more social with the players, is more likely to help the kids, etc. 

We'll see what happens. To me, this is an example when the front office is completely in the right. They value Fitz for a certain job (3 year mentor), and have the only offer out there to him. There is absolutely no reason for them to negotiate essentially against themselves - especially if they're not as frightened of starting Geno as some fans are. I suspect that if they believed that starting Geno equated tanking the season, that they would've moved onto Fitz' preferred one year deal a long time ago. 

Personally, I think Fitz'll blink, in that he'd be a fool not to. 

Again, the value of Fitz as a mentor in 17 an d18 is small change compared to flushing the 16 season down the drain.  I know you think there's not that much difference between Smith and Fitzpatrick, but the logic of the FO's position is that there is significant difference between them.

 

[Big Blocker]

13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look the cap will change in 2017 based on present contracts and players they might decide to cut. You really don't know how much cap space you're going to have. And these are not simple issues you can find out about in Sportrac, etc. All players take a cap hit of some sort and Qbs more than most. And you have to budget for the Qb position unless your decision is to go with a young starter on a rookie contract like Mariota. If you can't sign a Qb because you're worried about future cap problems then don't sign him. It's not a viable reason because both sides can work it out. The idea of no compromise in a negotiation after 6 months is mind boggling. And only one offer from management the entire time. My guess this goes more to Woody than to Mac. We all know that big decisions go through him. 

Oh, I agree completely with this post, and did not mean to imply otherwise.  My post about FO Homers is that they take an overall and even sometimes legitimate concern about the impact of a particular player's situation on the cap as a reason to almost if not always take the FO's side in the dispute.

But once the FO agrees to a deal, as in the recent case of Wilkerson, the FO's move was just fine.

I especially agree this is almost certainly a position that Woody is behind. 

[Rangers9]

Nobody pays a mentor 6 mil a year. This is total nonsense. They want him for '17 and '18 as an insurance policy (for themselves) in case Hack isn't ready to start. This to me is the only logical explanation for a contract structured like this. 

[Kleckineau]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

I agree with Geno and Fitz being two poor choice but Hack?  He is about as ready to run an NFL offense this season that I am to run a marathon tomorrow .  

What if there is an all you can eat buffet at the finish line? ☺

[slats]

11 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Again, the value of Fitz as a mentor in 17 an d18 is small change compared to flushing the 16 season down the drain.  I know you think there's not that much difference between Smith and Fitzpatrick, but the logic of the FO's position is that there is significant difference between them.

 

I suspect you have your valuations reversed. His real value is stabilizing the QB position for three years, the latter two as a backup, and helping to prepare Hackenberg for prime time. If his value to them is primarily as a starter in 2016, they'll capitulate and give him his one year deal. As I said, we'll see. 

[Big Blocker]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I suspect you have your valuations reversed. His real value is stabilizing the QB position for three years, the latter two as a backup, and helping to prepare Hackenberg for prime time. If his value to them is primarily as a starter in 2016, they'll capitulate and give him his one year deal. As I said, we'll see. 

Fitzpatrick will not stabilize the position at all if he is not signed.  And the structure of the deal as we understand it does place a higher value on 16.  Finally there is nothing about the deal as we understand it that would prevent the Jets from starting Fitzpatrick in 17 and even 18, but only have to pay him a backup's salary.

In any event the likely result, if there is a deal, is that both sides will compromise somewhat.  I don't expect a capitulation by either side.

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

What if there is an all you can eat buffet at the finish line? ☺

Cruelty defined 

[Rangers9]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

I suspect you have your valuations reversed. His real value is stabilizing the QB position for three years, the latter two as a backup, and helping to prepare Hackenberg for prime time. If his value to them is primarily as a starter in 2016, they'll capitulate and give him his one year deal. As I said, we'll see. 

The player, Fitzpatrick doesn't want to be in this type of situation. Or sign that kind of contract. It binds him and takes away his chances to negotiate a better contract. He obviously values his own career. Like all players that's his first priority. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

The player, Fitzpatrick doesn't want to be in this type of situation. Or sign that kind of contract. It binds him and takes away his chance to negotiate a better contract. He obviously values his own career. Like all players that's his first priority. 

Values his own career? What career is worth writing home about? 6 teams in 11 years never been to the playoffs. What type of mentor is he for any young QB?

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Fitzpatrick will not stabilize the position at all if he is not signed.  And the structure of the deal as we understand it does place a higher value on 16.  Finally there is nothing about the deal as we understand it that would prevent the Jets from starting Fitzpatrick in 17 and even 18, but only have to pay him a backup's salary.

In any event the likely result, if there is a deal, is that both sides will compromise somewhat.  I don't expect a capitulation by either side.

Much is made of the money he's slated to get in 2016 vs. the following two years but, more than likely, it's nothing more than signing bonus math. A deal that pays him $3M year one, and $6M the following two, with a $9M signing bonus for cap purposes. They've put his value at $8M/year, which is about where he should be as a low end starter/high end backup, with a cap hit of just $6M the first season. 

[Rangers9]

According to what most of us have accepted as factual leaks the offer is for 12 mil the first season. And 6 and then 6. And that's what the Jets leaked but only for the first year. They intentionally didn't tell the press about years two and years three. It was the Fitz camp who leaked those numbers. The Jets wouldn't own up to it. But it could end up over 3 years being 24 mil. We don't really know anything about the specifics of the deal. We've heard that 15 mil is guaranteed but we don't know what kind of a guarantee. A full guarantee, an injury guarantee, etc. And there are incentives that could bring it up to 36 mil but not disclosed by either side. I was in an argument with Sperm a few days ago about contracts and he brought up as an example APs escalators and deescalates which go from +2 to -2 mil. They aren't the main part of the deal which averages around 14 mil. But when you look at those escalators they are really hard to obtain even for a guy like Peterson. Here they are:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/adrian-peterson/

• 2016 Roster Bonus Escalator
  $1M (1,750 rush yards and a divisional playoff win)
  $2M (1,900 rush yards and a Super Bowl win) 
• 2016 Roster Bonus De-Escalator
  -$1M (less than 1,550 rush yards OR no playoff win)
  -$2M (less than 1,350 rush yards OR fails to make the playoffs)

The one he has the best chance to get is the -1 mil descalator. Last year he gained 1485 yards. Not too feasible for him to gain 1900 and win the SB.

So if these are typical of this kind of contract mechanism it's hard to make money. Very hard. And easier to lose it. Even if the incentives are based on playing time if the Jets do not start Fitz (even if he plays well in 2016-maybe he plays well but we lose and the Jets decide to go with Hack) he gets nothing.  He's the backup. Even if other teams want him to start. He's locked in. So the guy has looked at the 3 year deal and both him and his agent don't like it. Why not just make the adjustments to a one year deal. And then sign either him or another vet in 2017. To start or to back up.

[Rangers9]

By the way low end starter money is not 8 mil a year. 12 mil would actually be the lowest in the NFL for non rookie contract starters except for 2 teams: Denver and Cleveland. 

[slats]

5 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

By the way low end starter money is not 8 mil a year. 12 mil would actually be the lowest in the NFL for non rookie contract starters except for 2 teams: Denver and Cleveland. 

You continue to confuse the Fitzpatrick market with the starting QB market. Fitzpatrick does not reside in the starting QB market. His market is essentially whatever he can get from the Jets because no other team will offer him more than a chance to compete for a starting job - if that. 

Three years, $24M -even without escalators- is extremely generous for the Fitzpatrick market. He can hold off signing it in hopes of getting more out of them right up until the Jets announce a deadline, and then he will. 

[Jetsplayer21]

Jets should lower the offer if he doesn't sign by 1st day of camp.. Each week..

[Rangers9]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

You continue to confuse the Fitzpatrick market with the starting QB market. Fitzpatrick does not reside in the starting QB market. His market is essentially whatever he can get from the Jets because no other team will offer him more than a chance to compete for a starting job - if that. 

Three years, $24M -even without escalators- is extremely generous for the Fitzpatrick market. He can hold off signing it in hopes of getting more out of them right up until the Jets announce a deadline, and then he will. 

If it was generous he would have accepted it by now. He's a starting Qb because he started all of our games last year. And he was a starting Qb in 2014 and a good percentage of his career he has started. As for salaries they are set by average salary at a position and by industry standards. Not only by temporary supply and demand. This is an off market for starting Qbs this year. There are no job openings. Most years there are. That could change fast. 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Jets should lower the offer if he doesn't sign by 1st day of camp.. Each week..

Any other organization would have pulled the offer off the table but not our damn Jets lets make the off season hell for our fans.

[Jetsplayer21]

31 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Any other organization would have pulled the offer off the table but not our damn Jets lets make the off season hell for our fans.

I think they still would want a capable backup for geno.. Petty can't be trusted with that job yet.. When camp starts geno is named starter after a week.. Mac will lower Fitz offer and offer him the #2.. It still will be the best deal on the table for Fitz ?

[ljr]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Any other organization would have pulled the offer off the table but not our damn Jets lets make the off season hell for our fans.

Why?

Cut our nose off to spite our face ???

valuable day July 21st was missed by our QB ... How did the rest of the team manage without him today???

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, ljr said:

Why?

Cut our nose off to spite our face ???

valuable day July 21st was missed by our QB ... How did the rest of the team manage without him today???

Why? Because no other NFL team 31 but who's counting are being held hostage by a 34 year old journeyman QB

[ljr]

7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Why? Because no other NFL team 31 but who's counting are being held hostage by a 34 year old journeyman QB

You do know that the offseason is the time for contract negotiations to occur right?

 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

You do know that the offseason is the time for contract negotiations to occur right?

 

Yes but aren't all the good players already signed?

[Mike135]

Smh...  wow less than a week 'til camp.

These idiots (Macc and Fitz) really took this all the way to the end.  Ugh, as Jets fans, guess we can only laugh off the incompetence.

Fitz is a complete fool for imagining he's worth decent money, and Macc has been right not to raise the offer.  But at this point I'm beginning not to care how this ends.  Geno, Fitz for cheap, or Fitz for 20mil per.  Just end the BS.

OTAs were already affected.  Seems like these idiots may really ruin camp and the preseason.  Really would be nice to announce the decision before camp starts.  

C'mon Jets, at least pretend to be a professional organization.

[ljr]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes but aren't all the good players already signed?

Certainly $h*tty ones at the QB position on their rookie deals are.

plenty of good players get involved in contract disputes leading up to TC / preseason / even regular season  ... So your argument that his deal hasn't been worked out yet equates to him not being any good is erroneous .

i'm not even delving into how good or bad he is ... Other than saying he is better than our alternatives at this time for 2016.

[joewilly12]

Just now, ljr said:

Certainly $h*tty ones at the QB position on their rookie deals are.

plenty of good players get involved in contract disputes leading up to TC / preseason / even regular season  ... So your argument that his deal hasn't been worked out yet equates to him not being any good is erroneous .

i'm not even delving into how good or bad he is ... Other than saying he is better than our alternatives at this time for 2016.

Name another QB that's still unsigned or even a player at this point in time.

Geno Smith has NOTHING to do with this conversation but you chose to make a comment about him.

The HATE is deep with you sad situation to say the least.

[ljr]

32 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Name another QB that's still unsigned or even a player at this point in time.

Geno Smith has NOTHING to do with this conversation but you chose to make a comment about him.

The HATE is deep with you sad situation to say the least.

Sorry about that ... Not used to your post not having been about licking Geno's scrote & went into sleepwalk-regurgitate same answer mode to you.

i have no idea who else may not be signed at this time ... But the point is irrelevant ... So I certainly am not going to waste any time researching it ... For arguments sake let's say there is no other player marginally worthwhile in The league ... That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

it's annoying for us fans to not know who our starting QB is ... But it has not impacted the team (other than also not knowing or having to answer some annoying questions ... Boo-hoooo! ... Both extremely - extremely minor ... If that ... Regarding 2016 regular season results) in how they will play in 2016.

why has it not impacted the team ... Because it is the :

O F F.    S E A S O N

[EM31]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Why? Because no other NFL team 31 but who's counting are being held hostage by a 34 year old journeyman QB

No other team has the worst QB in the NFL two years running as their backup.

[Hackenberg - Banned]

lol huge picture sheesh

 

oh sure,writing is on the wall,he's gone

[AFJF]

39 minutes ago, ljr said:

Sorry about that ... Not used to your post not having been about licking Geno's scrote & went into sleepwalk-regurgitate same answer mode to you.

i have no idea who else may not be signed at this time ... But the point is irrelevant ... So I certainly am not going to waste any time researching it ... For arguments sake let's say there is no other player marginally worthwhile in The league ... That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

it's annoying for us fans to not know who our starting QB is ... But it has not impacted the team (other than also not knowing or having to answer some annoying questions ... Boo-hoooo! ... Both extremely - extremely minor ... If that ... Regarding 2016 regular season results) in how they will play in 2016.

why has it not impacted the team ... Because it is the :

O F F.    S E A S O N

This is a great point that I was thinking about earlier today.  All the talk I'm hearing about how this is "crazy" and "when will it end", blah blah blah, is really just silly.  

Jets made an offer, Fitz will sign it when he wants.  He hasn't missed any more time than he missed last off-season and TC hasn't started yet.

The only thing this situation has done is make impatient fans antsy because they want an answer or resolution NOW.  Even though Fitz signing four months ago, three months ago, two months ago, one month ago, today or next week will basically be six of one/half dozen of the other.

He knows the offense inside and out and yes, I agree that it would have been nice for him to have taken part in the off-season program, but will it really matter once the season starts that he didn't play catch in a pair of shorts with his receivers a few times?  I doubt it.