Geno to start preseason with chance to prove himself?

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we had great QB #s last year and didn't win

Yes, we did win.  10 wins is a playoff season far more often than it isn't.

And we didn't have "great" QB #'s, we had slightly above average QB #'s.

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Philip Rivers, jay Cutler and others have a made a career out of it.  I don't care about out of context #s, I care more about how numbers were accumulated than the accumulations.

I'm sorry, but "out of context numbers" is hogwash.  QB play drives playoff appearances, and the number in this case are clear.  Without some other factor (like the greatest RB in the NFL, or a legit historic elite Defense) sub-par QB play doesn't get you to playoff seasons.  

We need look only a few years back to see proof, Mark Sanchez, sub-par, carried by an elite Defense and top-level Running game.  

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

there's no way our QB will throw 20 and 15 w/ this talent(assuming it stays healthy) but if he does and we win I'm happy.

Geno most certainly could produce those kind of numbers (so could Fitz potentially), and if they do, we're not winning and we're not in the playoffs.  

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we sacrificed 2015 w/ Fitz so what is the difference?

There was no sacrifice last year, we competed till the end and came up short.  That's not sacrifice.  

Failing to sign your preferred QB, and going with Geno, the penultimate "whelp, year 4 of lets see what we have" move with a roster like this, is sacrifice.

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's great he put up nice #s but what did it get us?  a team as talented as any we have had in my lifetime couldn't even make the playoffs w/ that weak sched and in a down year for the AFC,

Well, it looks like we'll get to see what Geno can do with a better roster than that.  

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, we did win.  10 wins is a playoff season far more often than it isn't.

And we didn't have "great" QB #'s, we had slightly above average QB #'s.

I'm sorry, but "out of context numbers" is hogwash.  QB play drives playoff appearances, and the number in this case are clear.  Without some other factor (like the greatest RB in the NFL, or a legit historic elite Defense) sub-par QB play doesn't get you to playoff seasons.  

We need look only a few years back to see proof, Mark Sanchez, sub-par, carried by an elite Defense and top-level Running game.  

Geno most certainly could produce those kind of numbers (so could Fitz potentially), and if they do, we're not winning and we're not in the playoffs.  

There was no sacrifice last year, we competed till the end and came up short.  That's not sacrifice.  

Failing to sign your preferred QB, and going with Geno, the penultimate "whelp, year 4 of lets see what we have" move with a roster like this, is sacrifice.

Well, it looks like we'll get to see what Geno can do with a better roster than that.  

was 10 wins enough in 2015?  NO so it wasn't good enough.

we had all time QB #s in jets history, only Vinny and maybe Chad had better statistical years but those guys made plays to get us into the playoffs.

the team that won the SB had some of the worst QB the league has seen in recent years but I agree top QB play makes teams contenders more often than not, we weren't a contender w/ Fitz and no one has been w/ him.

Mark was a million times better than Fitz, the #s weren't as good but w/ less talent around him he made big plays and helped us reach two title games.  mark w/ us last year and we are easily in the playoffs w/ a chance to win in the playoffs.

I don't know what geno is capable of yet, I would like to see him w/ some talent around him though.

the season was there on a platter for us, we were almost handed a playoff spot then said we didn't want it thanks in large part to Fitz.

if that QB wants more than he is worth as deemed by the 31 other teams in the NFL that had no interest in him as a FA then you get stuck in a position like this but we have some young QBs to try to develop and we can miss the playoffs w/ Fitz or any of them.

I still think Fitz comes back but who knows?

 

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats nice that you demand this...

Don't you demand it as well?

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

...but the league is littered with teams that improve from one season to the next without it reflecting in the w/l record.  Schedules, injuries etc do effect records too. 

So should we accept the status quo of mediocrity and wasted years waiting "to see what we have" at QB?  

Or should we as fans be demanding the best players available play?

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Don't you demand it as well?

So should we accept the status quo of mediocrity and wasted years waiting "to see what we have" at QB?  

Or should we as fans be demanding the best players available play?

Look, only s complete Numbnut doesn't want them to win as many games as possible.  Demanding that they do won't change a thing.

And more importantly wins and loses don't always reflect the talent level.  They could be a better team top to bottom but the schedule, opponents push, injures etc all effect win totals.  That's my point

[Mogglez]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Look, only s complete Numbnut doesn't want them to win as many games as possible.  Demanding that they do won't change a thing.

And more importantly wins and loses don't always reflect the talent level.  They could be a better team top to bottom but the schedule, opponents push, injures etc all effect win totals.  That's my point

It's been my point the entire time. The chances are much higher that were going to be worse than last year. Fitz or no Fitz.  That's why it's a waste to give him 12mil+.  Don't bother, you're going to get a half sarcastic, ego filled, pseudo "intellectual" response that doesn't actually address any point you made because it's to complex to grasp for something that doesn't know what they're talking about.  Arguing with him is a waste of keystrokes, intelligence, and bandwith.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Look, only s complete Numbnut doesn't want them to win as many games as possible.  Demanding that they do won't change a thing.

Nothing we do changes anything my friend.  If we took that tact, we'd never post anything because why bother it doesn't change anything.

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And more importantly wins and loses don't always reflect the talent level.

Odd how often these kind of statements keep rising up now.

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 They could be a better team top to bottom but the schedule, opponents push, injures etc all effect win totals.  That's my point

Of course it's multiple factors, but it's still preemptive excuse making to start saying Geno won't equal Fitz because X, Y or Z.

It's Geno fans hedging their bets after months of loudly proclaiming Fitz to be dogsh*t, and their guy to be younger, faster, better armed, better brained, better leader, etc. ad neaseum.

If Geno is those things, matching Fitz's 2015 production shouldn't be a miracle, no matter how tough the schedule is based on last years stats, it should be a given, a starting point for what we expect from Geno.

The fact is Geno fans don't think he can or will match Fitz's 2015 production and they know it.  Which is why every bet is hedged when it comes to 2016 expectations, why every outlook is gloomy, why suddenly this amazing roster is not so amazing, and the schedule is a killer we for some reason can't overcome, etc.

Honesty goes a long way in making an argument.  

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'm sorry.  Do you need Max to provide you a "Safe Space", like today's college kids, where you can happily say what you like and never have anyone question it?  I'm sure Max will give you what you need, why not PM him.

And yes, that's yet more sarcasm.

Funny how it's generally the Pro-Geno folks who accuse me of that, and only since this off-season started.  Funny, that.

Oh, I grasp it, it's a simplistic opinion that is basically a punt on actual analysis.  It's an defacto "Doesn't matter anyway", which simply isn't a reflection of reality to-date.

The Strength of Schedule excuse only matters until the first snap of 2016 is played.  2016 teams are not the same as 2015 teams.  For example, we're better than we were last year almost across the board, except at QB.  Other teams have dropped, some have risen.  What those teams won in 2015 is vaguely relevant, but not nearly as relevant as who we play and what we do and where we improved or fall off.  They play the games on the field, not in a simulation where previous year SoS drives future results.

Nope, it's sad.  It speaks to our beloved teams seemingly endless failure to land a legitimate franchise QB.

And now we have Hack.  So, yeah.

I am definitely pompous.  And arrogant.  And right vastly more often than wrong.

But I don't post to get my rocks off, I post because I live out of state, and this is the entire interaction I get with my fellow Jets Fans.  

There is no chance Geno becomes Namath.  He is what we think he is, a bust who'll be out of the league in a year or three, on his way to his last gig as a #2/#3 someplace else.

And Hack.....lol, right.  No betting man is placing that bet.

So this is the reality for us for years to come, barring some miracle.  

1.  No safe space needed. I'm pretty comfy.

2.  5th time. Not a Geno "fan". 

3.  You haven't grasped a single thing.

4.  Strength of schedule isn't an "excuse".  It's reality.  We have a tough schedule.  I know you like to go against the grain but those are the facts as they stand today.

5. You are almost never right. Even going back to JI.  

6. The guy, who just this past off-season, stated that he knows next to nothing about QB's and "doesn't pretend to" is now going to lecture this forum about Hackenberg and his future.  Do you want to remind everyone about the young QB you last waved pom poms for?

BS you get a kick out of this. You've turned your username and "reputation" on a football message board and turned it into a sad sad sad persona.  Or at least I hope that's the case because being around someone as miserable, pompous, and condescending as you sounds horrific.

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

1.  No safe space needed. I'm pretty comfy.

Excellent, maybe now all the whining will stop.

Quote

2.  5th time. Not a Geno "fan". 

Choose your descriptor as you like, Geno supporter, Geno preferred to start, whatever you like mate.

Quote

3.  You haven't grasped a single thing.

Ok Villain.  Gonna tell me you "owned me" next, lol.

Quote

4.  Strength of schedule isn't an "excuse".  It's reality.  We have a tough schedule.  I know you like to go against the grain but those are the facts as they stand today.

Strength of Schedule before a season starts is purely a reflection of how teams played LAST YEAR.  Not how they'll play this year.  Or how difficult they'll be this year.  It's a measuring stick before games start being played, and 100% irrelevant after the first snap is taken.  

Quote

5. You are almost never right. Even going back to JI.  

Lol, whatever you say Muggle.  Apart from my infamous Patrick Ramsey love, there is damn little I've been wrong on "since JI" and having some no-name from back int he day say otherwise means bupkis to me my friend.  I was right on late-era Pennington, right on Sanchez, right on Geno so far.  

Quote

6. The guy, who just this past off-season, stated that he knows next to nothing about QB's and "doesn't pretend to" is now going to lecture this forum about Hackenberg and his future.  Do you want to remind everyone about the young QB you last waved pom poms for?

Remind away if you like.  Hack is clearly a project and a long term one at that.  He won;t be a starter this year, and won't be a starter next year.  He was a prospect who looked good as a freshman in college and that's about it.  He could certainly become something, and I'm glad he's sitting now, and hopeful he sits again in 2017 and likely 2018 too.  It's his best chance to avoid joining the seemingly endless list of sh*t Jets QB's.

Quote

BS you get a kick out of this. You've turned your username and "reputation" on a football message board and turned it into a sad sad sad persona.  Or at least I hope that's the case because being around someone as miserable, pompous, and condescending as you sounds horrific.

Lol, more tears and weak personal insults.  

Wake me when you want to talk football Muggle.  

[slats]

22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nothing we do changes anything my friend.  If we took that tact, we'd never post anything because why bother it doesn't change anything.

Odd how often these kind of statements keep rising up now.

Of course it's multiple factors, but it's still preemptive excuse making to start saying Geno won't equal Fitz because X, Y or Z.

It's Geno fans hedging their bets after months of loudly proclaiming Fitz to be dogsh*t, and their guy to be younger, faster, better armed, better brained, better leader, etc. ad neaseum.

If Geno is those things, matching Fitz's 2015 production shouldn't be a miracle, no matter how tough the schedule is based on last years stats, it should be a given, a starting point for what we expect from Geno.

The fact is Geno fans don't think he can or will match Fitz's 2015 production and they know it.  Which is why every bet is hedged when it comes to 2016 expectations, why every outlook is gloomy, why suddenly this amazing roster is not so amazing, and the schedule is a killer we for some reason can't overcome, etc.

Honesty goes a long way in making an argument.  

There's that old straw man again. Lol. 

Maybe one or two posters refer to Geno as more of a leader. Maybe. Fewer than than refer to him as smarter than Fitz. 

And as for the schedule, the Jets finished last season with the easiest schedule in the league. That's the schedule Ryan Fitzpatrick actually faced as he failed to complete 60% of his passes in his amazing, record (singular) setting season. It's appears to be highly unlikely that the Jets will once again have the easiest schedule this season. Right now it looks like one of the hardest, probably won't drop below middle of the pack. Dismissing that is silly. 

[ylekram]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Fitz had his most talented supporting cast of his career with the playoffs on the line week 17 and produced the numbers he produced. 

 

I'll go with Geno Smith. Atleast Geno's 2-0 during week 17 games. Some would be quick to respond and say "Well those games meant nothing", well, before you guys do that, let me remind you that last season's week 17 did mean something and Geno wasnt the QB. What happened? 

With that said, I'd rather see what Geno can do over a guy who's already shown us 11 years in a row including 1 year with playoffs on the line what he could do.

Fitzpatrick was undefeated in 2015 when the defense gave up 20 points or less. undefeated

[Hackenberg - Banned]

[Hackenberg - Banned]

[Hackenberg - Banned]

[Hackenberg - Banned]

[Villain The Foe]

7 minutes ago, Hackenberg said:

You must be proud of yourself ?

[ylekram]

8 minutes ago, Hackenberg said:

do you have the gif where geno throws the ball 10 yards out of bounds on the hail mary?

[Hackenberg - Banned]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You must be proud of yourself ?

well obviously theres a theme in that.

someone has cataloged his blunders

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Excellent, maybe now all the whining will stop.

Choose your descriptor as you like, Geno supporter, Geno preferred to start, whatever you like mate.

Ok Villain.  Gonna tell me you "owned me" next, lol.

Strength of Schedule before a season starts is purely a reflection of how teams played LAST YEAR.  Not how they'll play this year.  Or how difficult they'll be this year.  It's a measuring stick before games start being played, and 100% irrelevant after the first snap is taken.  

Lol, whatever you say Muggle.  apart from my infamous Patrick Ramsey love, they're damn little I've been wrong on "since JI" and having some no-name from back int he day say otherwise means bupkis to me my friend.

Remind away if you like.  Hack is clearly a project and a long term one at that.  He won;t be a starter this year, and won't be a starter next year.  He was a prospect who looked good as a freshman in college and that's about it.  He could certainly become something, and I'm glad he's sitting now, and hopeful he sits again in 2017 and likely 2018 too.  It's his best chance to avoid joining the seemingly endless list of sh*t Jets QB's.

Lol, more tears and weak personal insults.  

Wake me when you want to talk football Muggle.  

1.  There was never any whining from me.  You might want to reexamine how you answered a post that had nothing to do with you and look of the definition of whining.

2.  My "title" would be a Jets fan that doesn't want to see us throw money at a mediocre journeyman.

3.  No.  Never was.  That being said, it doesn't change the fact that you have no grasp of what's being said or discussed in this thread and we're probably better off keeping your snarky mouth shut.

4.  You can't wrap your head around the idea that our schedule, as of right now, is considered more difficult than last year. I can't help you there.

5.  This one is cute.  Especially since it's the second time that you've called me "no name" as if you are someone who is above everyone else lmao.  Like you're apart of some special "cool kids club".  Guess what snowflake. You aren't special. No one really cares about you or your message board persona.  You're just another guy posting on a Jets message board.  Seriously re-examine yourself if your serious about being a middle aged man who thinks he's "Jets board" internet famous. That's sad.  Like real sad. Also, stop with the "Muggle"/Harry Potter bs. My username has nothing to do with those sh*tty books.  It makes you look like even more of a child.

When you go after my first post acting like a snide, know-it-all, a-hole.  Don't be surprised when I go after you.  You're also the last person I honestly want to talk football with because right now it's apparent that you don't have a single clue about the game.  I'm done here.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Hackenberg said:

well obviously theres a theme in that.

someone has cataloged his blunders

Fitzpatrick has many many blunders in his illustrious gypsy journeyman career go find them and get back to us. 

[Hackenberg - Banned]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick has many many blunders in his illustrious gypsy journeyman career go find them and get back to us. 

maybe so but this isnt his thread and he doesnt lead the league in safeties accomplished.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Hackenberg said:

maybe so but this isnt his thread and he doesnt lead the league in safeties accomplished.

Go look in his thread 

He ended our season!!!!!

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Hackenberg said:

maybe so but this isnt his thread and he doesnt lead the league in safeties accomplished.

What does he lead the league in? 

Active player having been with the most teams in his career. 

[Hackenberg - Banned]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What does he lead the league in? 

Active player having been with the most teams in his career. 

yes, I can find more gifs with other teams,not too many Jets blunders

 

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

It's been my point the entire time. The chances are much higher that were going to be worse than last year. Fitz or no Fitz.  That's why it's a waste to give him 12mil+.  Don't bother, you're going to get a half sarcastic, ego filled, pseudo "intellectual" response that doesn't actually address any point you made because it's to complex to grasp for something that doesn't know what they're talking about.  Arguing with him is a waste of keystrokes, intelligence, and bandwith.

yes, the schedule looks tough in 2016. however, it has very little chance to be as hard as it is deemed right now. very little chance. every year we look at the schedule and a number is attached to it from #1 thru #32. and every year, with every team where those numbers start are not where they end. last year the jets schedule was ranked #18 easiest. I believe the season ended with #1 or #2 easiest. it went from average/hard to the easiest. this year the schedule is #1 or #2. it has a very minute chance at staying that way by the end of the year. it does , however, have a 90%-95% of being easier than first thought. this brutal schedule will only get easier

[Hackenberg - Banned]

15 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick has many many blunders in his illustrious gypsy journeyman career go find them and get back to us. 

the internet is racist.

it took me seconds to find Geno's blunders.

but It took me 2 minutes to find the one above for Ryan that isnt really that bad

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 minutes ago, Hackenberg said:

yes, I can find more gifs with other teams,not too many Jets blunders

 

You are pretty awful at the internet:

 

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, Hackenberg said:

well obviously theres a theme in that.

someone has cataloged his blunders

That's not surprising. 

[Hackenberg - Banned]

4 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You are pretty awful at the internet:

 

dude,every QB throws ints.

 I'm looking for real goofy blunders

[Mainejet]

I see an awful lot of very heartfelt argument/banter back and forth. It's obvious to me that both sides are especially digging their heels in now. My take on this is very simple......

I believe Fitz gives us our best chance at winning. The amount of wins can be debated, but regardless I think Fitz gives us MORE wins than Geno ever would.

Although I will freely admit that as time goes on the less and less I believe in what Fitz can do for us. Fitz is not a great QB, he's just our best option. But for him to be at his best, he MUST go through training camp and build those relationships and tendencies with his WR's. He must have Chan Gailey coaching him. As this whole ordeal moves into TC, the less and less time Fitz has to be coached. That could ultimately leave him more useless than Geno Smith.

There's going to come a time when the Jets just have to make the decision to move on with Geno. I say that date should be Wednesday July 27th. If he hasn't signed by then, the Jets management just needs to give themselves and the fan base closure and announce they are going all in with Geno for better or worse. It is definitely worse.

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

I see an awful lot of very heartfelt argument/banter back and forth. It's obvious to me that both sides are especially digging their heels in now. My take on this is very simple......

I believe Fitz gives us our best chance at winning. The amount of wins can be debated, but regardless I think Fitz gives us MORE wins than Geno ever would.

Although I will freely admit that as time goes on the less and less I believe in what Fitz can do for us. Fitz is not a great QB, he's just our best option. But for him to be at his best, he MUST go through training camp and build those relationships and tendencies with his WR's. He must have Chan Gailey coaching him. As this whole ordeal moves into TC, the less and less time Fitz has to be coached. That could ultimately leave him more useless than Geno Smith.

There's going to come a time when the Jets just have to make the decision to move on with Geno. I say that date should be Wednesday July 27th. If he hasn't signed by then, the Jets management just needs to give themselves and the fan base closure and announce they are going all in with Geno for better or worse. It is definitely worse.

We shall see. Good post all but the knocks on Geno me on the other hand will support whoever the QB is wearing a Jets uniform. Im all in on the NY Jets always have been always will be. 

[Mainejet]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

We shall see. Good post all but the knocks on Geno me on the other hand will support whoever the QB is wearing a Jets uniform. Im all in on the NY Jets always have been always will be. 

See that's what you just don't get. I support the Jets no matter what also. I just don't believe in Geno Smith nor do I like him. After all the water under the bridge, I am done wanting to see him QB this team. I figure we'd be better off with any number of veterans or even rookies for that matter. But, yes, I will root for the JETS just like you and no different. I just know they will NOT do anything positive with Geno Smith.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, Hackenberg said:

dude,every QB throws ints.

 I'm looking for real goofy blunders

Considering the situation of the game, that was as bad a blunder as Geno had in 2 NFL seasons. 

FG range in the 4th qtr of a 2 point game  and you throw an awful INT, but a random fumble in a random game is worse? LMAO. If Fitz doesn't "blunder" the Jets likely take the lead on the very next play. 

 

I'm not suggesting that Geno is "smart" QB, but Fitz is prone to some big mistakes also. Fitz has been given repeated chances to start for NFL teams. He has yet to take one to the playoffs. Sure he hasn't had great talent, but neither did Geno in his 2 seasons. Have you seen the WRs Geno was throwing to? Compare those clowns with Mashall and Decker. You can't. 

Personally, I want to see them compete for the job, but not if it means overpaying him and hurting our teams chances next year. 

[EM31]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You're out of your mind if you even for one second believe that the 2014 team was comparable on any level with the 2015 team, especially with the offense.  I know it doesn't fit your obvious anti Geno agenda but stop insulting people for being more knowledgeable than you obviously are.  From th rosters, to Deckers injuries, to Harvin, to the SB MVP and Curtis Martin you're proving yourself to be clueless, insulting, pompous and loud. 

Carry on?  Lol, sure

You people are like a swarm of midges.  Five or six of you endlessly repeating the same bizarre take on the QB position despite the wealth of evidence which contradicts the bizarre positions that you have taken.

Geno in 2013 and 2014 was the worst two year stretch of QB'ing by a starter in the history of the NFL.  Period.  He ranked 39th and 37th amongst QBs with enough starts to qualify.  Anyone with half a brain does not need to look that up because if you actually saw the games and know what you were looking at then you don't need statisticians to tell you how putrid he was  (this lets out Moggles by the way who professed here in this thread to only have a quarter of a brain).

It is a testament to how little QB depth we had in those years that Geno even kept the job.  On 31 other teams he would have been sent to the bench way before the 2nd year was finished.  As it was he got two whole years to cement his place in NFL QB lore.

To repeat.  I do not want Fitzpatrick back.  DO NOT.  Even though he is clearly a better player I do not think he is good enough to make this 2016 Jets team a playoff team.  I want Geno to start because I think that gives us a strong shot at a top-3 draft pick next year and, once he gets benched I think we may get a few games to take a look at Bryce Petty.  I want Geno to start BECAUSE he is such a putrid QB.

Next year he can go on the NFL scrapheap somewhere and we can move on with the extra $12M not spent on Fitzpatrick having been put to good use somewhere on the roster.

 

 

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, EM31 said:

You people are like a swarm of midges.  Five or six of you endlessly repeating the same bizarre take on the QB position despite the wealth of evidence which contradicts the bizarre positions that you have taken.

Geno in 2013 and 2014 was the worst two year stretch of QB'ing by a starter in the history of the NFL.  Period.  He ranked 39th and 37th amongst QBs with enough starts to qualify.  Anyone with half a brain does not need to look that up because if you actually saw the games and know what you were looking at then you don't need statisticians to tell you how putrid he was  (this lets out Moggles by the way who professed here in this thread to only have a quarter of a brain).

It is a testament to how little QB depth we had in those years that Geno even kept the job.  On 31 other teams he would have been sent to the bench way before the 2nd year was finished.  As it was he got two whole years to cement his place in NFL QB lore.

To repeat.  I do not want Fitzpatrick back.  DO NOT.  Even though he is clearly a better player I do not think he is good enough to make this 2016 Jets team a playoff team.  I want Geno to start because I think that gives us a strong shot at a top-3 draft pick next year and, once he gets benched I think we may get a few games to take a look at Bryce Petty.  I want Geno to start BECAUSE he is such a putrid QB.

Next year he can go on the NFL scrapheap somewhere and we can move on with the extra $12M not spent on Fitzpatrick having been put to good use somewhere on the roster.

 

 

LOL a swarm of midgets LOL 

[Larz]

Is it September yet?