Final Word On Deflategate - NY Time

[RutgersJetFan]

Also can I just say how big of a fan I am of assigning resident Pats fans random first names as nicknames. Now I can live my dream of addressing PatriotReign by the name I have always wanted to call him: Elmer.

[ScarletKnight89]

I remember Brady’s arrogance when he was questioned about it initially in the PC after the title game. I really wished the NFL would have taken a much harder stance on Bellicheck after this. But I guess they couldn’t tie him into it.

 

I’ve said it a bunch of times, Brady and Bellicheck are all time greats at what they do. But they are also cheaters. Sad thing is they don’t need to do it. But they don’t care about breaking the rules if they believe it will give them an edge and nobody will catch them. I would have loved for Bellicheck to get suspended from the Super Bowl that year. I knew it wasn’t going to happen though.

 

Spygate and deflategate will always be asterisks next to the Brady/Bellicheck era.

[ghost_in_pads02]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Such a good boy!  Go get your leash and I'll take you for a walk.

so that's how they trained you huh? I see....you have come along way.

[greenwichjetfan]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also can I just say how big of a fan I am of assigning resident Pats fans random first names as nicknames. Now I can live my dream of addressing PatriotReign by the name I have always wanted to call him: Elmer.

Not joking even a bit. There is a pats fan in my office who looks and sounds like peter griffin, and like the general stereotype, is quite simple. He's lived his entire life in northern CT and will live here till he passes, played high school football, married his high school sweetheart, hates traveling and doing anything out of his comfort zone, had this one job his entire life and will always have this one job....and his mom is an admin in our firm. His name is Bryan.

You can come visit my office if you don't believe me. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

No I compared breaking a law not mattering if the net result wasn't measurable.  I compared braking or bending an NFL rule to breaking a stick. Or trying to in your case. I think you are describing a fair weather fan. As a real Jet fan I really can't relate to being on top. Plus Im fat so the whole on top thing is pretty much hypothetical.

fair enough.

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Not joking even a bit. There is a pats fan in my office who looks and sounds like peter griffin, and like the general stereotype, is quite simple. He's lived his entire life in northern CT and will live here till he passes, played high school football, married his high school sweetheart, hates traveling and doing anything out of his comfort zone, had this one job his entire life and will always have this one job....and his mom is an admin in our firm. His name is Bryan.

You can come visit my office if you don't believe me. 

I actually would like to visit your office. Where do you work and what's the address?

[ScarletKnight89]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

1 good year in 5 seasons, that's not good.  

in NE he has been HC w/o Brady for basically 2 full seasons, he went 5-11 one season and 10-5 the other.  Didn't make the playoffs either time.  the 10-5 season w/ Cassell as starter they were undefeated w/ Brady a year earlier against a much tougher schedule and Cassell would win a div title w/ KC 2 years later.

 

BB is an all time great coach but he doesn't have a chance to develop into one if Brady doesn't come along and change the course of his HC career and that franchise.

You're overlooking the fact that Matt Cassell isn't very good. He won 10 games with a bad QB. Cassell went 4-11 his next year in KC and then went 10-5 again and won the division in the AFC West. Is it impossible to believe that he couldn't have done that in the AFC East as well?

It's not like Cassell has this history of winning. He's had 2 good seasons in the NFL. 2008 and 2010. One year he made the playoffs, the other he didn't. The Pats as a team that year won 11 games and didn't get in. Most years 11 games gets you in, it can also get you a division title. The Pats were still good in 2008. It was just a tough year in the AFC.

But I agree, Bellicheck most likely doesn't become an all time great HC without Brady.

[greenwichjetfan]

4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I actually would like to visit your office. Where do you work and what's the address?

Security for RISD.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

You're overlooking the fact that Matt Cassell isn't very good. He won 10 games with a bad QB. Cassell went 4-11 his next year in KC and then went 10-5 again and won the division in the AFC West. Is it impossible to believe that he couldn't have done that in the AFC East as well?

It's not like Cassell has this history of winning. He's had 2 good seasons in the NFL. 2008 and 2010. One year he made the playoffs, the other he didn't. The Pats as a team that year won 11 games and didn't get in. Most years 11 games gets you in, it can also get you a division title. The Pats were still good in 2008. It was just a tough year in the AFC.

But I agree, Bellicheck most likely doesn't become an all time great HC without Brady.

Cassell made the playoffs winning a division w/ another franchise.  he had a chance in the AFC east and a mediocre dolphin team won it.

 

again, BB is possibly the greatest but definitely one of the greatest.  Brady emerging bought him time to learn how to become a great coach.  X's and O's wise he's second to none but there is more to being a HC than X's and O's.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well, I think you're counting Cleveland. What about NEP only which is basically almost all with Brady. In evaluating BB I think you can toss out his Cleveland record and judge him on NEP alone. You give Brady most of the credit which is a legit opinion. I agree with Tex that it's mostly BB but certainly not as great without TB. The cheating stuff is mostly mental. Ask Belichick's analyst about it. They can win without it. 

Why?

[ljr]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB is possibly the greatest* but definitely one of the greatest*.  Brady emerging bought him time to learn how to become a great coach.  X's and O's wise he's second to none but there is more to being a HC than X's and O's.

Fixed

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Cassell made the playoffs winning a division w/ another franchise.  he had a chance in the AFC east and a mediocre dolphin team won it.

 

again, BB is possibly the greatest but definitely one of the greatest.  Brady emerging bought him time to learn how to become a great coach.  X's and O's wise he's second to none but there is more to being a HC than X's and O's.

The Pats won 11 games. And it was the only year he played for them. It's not like they won 8 or 9. And once again, is it impossible to believe that he couldn't have won a division title with the Patriots in the recent future if Brady never came back?

Your acting like he went on to great success post BB. He didn't. What he did in KC makes BB look all the more better. Especially considering he flipped him for a second round pick.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm an American, so I don't value scientific analysis if I don't agree with it.

[Rangers9]

 

 

 

Brady wasn't the starter his first two years at Umich, Griese was. He started his junior and senior seasons but also platooned with Henson. I mean if you want to take away from 2008 with the cream puff schedule excuse ok. 

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why?

Because it's since 1999 and 4 rings. A lot of great coaches weren't successful when they first started as HCs. He's been eminently successful. 

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

The Pats won 11 games. And it was the only year he played for them. It's not like they won 8 or 9. And once again, is it impossible to believe that he couldn't have won a division title with the Patriots in the recent future if Brady never came back?

Your acting like he went on to great success post BB. He didn't. What he did in KC makes BB look all the more better. Especially considering he flipped him for a second round pick.

They won 10 games w/ Cassell starting against an incredibly weak sched.  a sched so weak Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 in 2008 and a div title.  NE went from 16 wins to 11 overall.  that's a HUGE difference and those 10-11 wins came w/o a playoff app so they were meaningless.  his lone PO app came w/ another team so clearly he could play.

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 

 

 

Brady wasn't the starter his first two years at Umich, Griese was. He started his junior and senior seasons but also platooned with Henson. I mean if you want to take away from 2008 with the cream puff schedule ok. 

Brady was a starter after Griese, he started 25 games and the only reason henson started any was b/c he was the biggest recruit in the nation and the coach had to do it.

 

 

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Because it's since 1999 and 4 rings. A lot of great coaches weren't successful when they first started as HCs. He's been eminently successful. 

how many were failures though?  through 6 pre Brady seasons he had one winning season, one PO season and one PO win.  we bash rex for 2 title game apps through 6 seasons which included 4 road PO wins.

[Jet Fan RI]

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

My...wife...and I just got married in Warwick last weekend. RI is one of our favorite states. Newport, Providence, the Brown campus. Honestly, the only downside is that it reeks of pats country. 

Congratulations! Fun fact: Warwick is the actual location of the "Providence" airport. 

[greenwichjetfan]

6 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

Congratulations! Fun fact: Warwick is the actual location of the "Providence" airport. 

Thanks! I'm aware....they didn't allow our videographer to use their drone because we were too close to the "providence" airport....

[ScarletKnight89]

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They won 10 games w/ Cassell starting against an incredibly weak sched.  a sched so weak Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 in 2008 and a div title.  NE went from 16 wins to 11 overall.  that's a HUGE difference and those 10-11 wins came w/o a playoff app so they were meaningless.  his lone PO app came w/ another team so clearly he could play.

Brady was a starter after Griese, he started 25 games and the only reason henson started any was b/c he was the biggest recruit in the nation and the coach had to do it.

 

 

They went from 16 wins to 11 because they lost Brady and went to Cassell. Cassell had some ability but was incredibly average. It's not hard to go from being bad to good in the NFL like it is in some other sports. There's a lot of parody in the league. Teams do it a lot.

I'm not arguing about whether or not you consider the wins meaningless or not. I'm saying that if that injury to Brady was career ending Cassell could have just as easily won a division title for the Patriots eventually like he did with the Chiefs. He had one year of success after he left NE. That's all I'm saying. Bellicheck did a good job with him. But in 2008 in the AFC East 11 wins wasn't good enough to get the Pats into the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

They went from 16 wins to 11 because they lost Brady and went to Cassell. Cassell had some ability but was incredibly average. It's not hard to go from being bad to good in the NFL like it is in some other sports. There's a lot of parody in the league. Teams do it a lot.

I'm not arguing about whether or not you consider the wins meaningless or not. I'm saying that if that injury to Brady was career ending Cassell could have just as easily won a division title for the Patriots eventually like he did with the Chiefs. He had one year of success after he left NE. That's all I'm saying. Bellicheck did a good job with him. But in 2008 in the AFC East 11 wins wasn't good enough to get the Pats into the playoffs.

they never would have made it close to a SB w/ Cassell.  BB did an excellent job w/ him and w/ Garrapolo and the team this year.  he's an outstanding coach.

[Jet Fan RI]

39 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Security for RISD.

Ah. So "greenwich" is Greenwich, RI.

[Jet Fan RI]

30 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

I'm an American, so I don't value scientific analysis if I don't agree with it.

Actually, that is the attitude of scientists, too.

[ScarletKnight89]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

they never would have made it close to a SB w/ Cassell.  BB did an excellent job w/ him and w/ Garrapolo and the team this year.  he's an outstanding coach.

I know they wouldn't have made it close to a SB with Cassell. Pretty much nobody would.

[Rangers9]

20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

how many were failures though?  through 6 pre Brady seasons he had one winning season, one PO season and one PO win.  we bash rex for 2 title game apps through 6 seasons which included 4 road PO wins.

Look, I'm not a lover of Belichick or Brady. But there was no failure by BB. Again any major HC most of them if you count their early days they lost games. He's been with New England for like 17 seasons. Of course his success is tied to Brady and visa versa. His success is also tied to a lot of other great players like Gronk, etc.  But he would not be a DC or in Arena Football if not for Brady. He'd be a pretty great coach and we don't know how many rings. It's not a logical argument.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, I'm not a lover of Belichick or Brady. But there was no failure by BB. Again any major HC most of them if you count their early days they lost games. He's been with New England for like 17 seasons. Of course his success is tied to Brady and visa versa. His success is also tied to a lot of other great players like Gronk, etc.  But he would not be a DC or in Arena Football if not for Brady. He'd be a pretty great coach and we don't know how many rings. It's not a logical argument.

he was a complete failure pre-Brady.  5 seasons in Cle w/ 1 winning season, 1 PO season, 1 PO win? you guys bash rex nonstop for 4 PO wins and 2 title game apps but you think what BB did pre Brady was ok?  he already failed in Cle, he failed his first year in NE and was on the way to failing in year 2 until Brady stepped in.

[Larz]

final word comes after ernie adams is eulogized and the truth comes out

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Because it's since 1999 and 4 rings. A lot of great coaches weren't successful when they first started as HCs. He's been eminently successful. 

 

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Because it's since 1999 and 4 rings. A lot of great coaches weren't successful when they first started as HCs. He's been eminently successful. 

But the position many are taking is that Brady is the main reason for his success.  Considering he only had one year in NE without Brady (and that was a losing season) you must take into account his previous roles.  

At least that's my opinion. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

But the position many are taking is that Brady is the main reason for his success.  Considering he only had one year in NE without Brady (and that was a losing season) you must take into account his previous roles.  

At least that's my opinion. 

Makes perfect sense

[PatsFanTX]

he was a complete failure pre-Brady.  5 seasons in Cle w/ 1 winning season, 1 PO season, 1 PO win? you guys bash rex nonstop for 4 PO wins and 2 title game apps but you think what BB did pre Brady was ok?  he already failed in Cle, he failed his first year in NE and was on the way to failing in year 2 until Brady stepped in.

So using that logic, Rex was/is a much better HC than BB because he lost 2 AFCCG's his first 2 years and BB didn't make the playoffs in his first 2 years?

In 20 years, BB will be sitting in the HOF and Rex will be staring as the reincarnation of Benny Hill.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

So using that logic, Rex was/is a much better HC than BB because he lost 2 AFCCG's his first 2 years and BB didn't make the playoffs in his first 2 years?

 

In 20 years, BB will be sitting in the HOF and Rex will be staring as the reincarnation of Benny Hill.

rex w/ us was certainly head and shoulders better than BB w/ Cleveland.

If Rex had Brady he'd be a HOF coach too.  Rex whooped you in the div round w/ the much maligned Mark Sanchez in the biggest game ever btw the two coaches and two teams.

[Rangers9]

43 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he was a complete failure pre-Brady.  5 seasons in Cle w/ 1 winning season, 1 PO season, 1 PO win? you guys bash rex nonstop for 4 PO wins and 2 title game apps but you think what BB did pre Brady was ok?  he already failed in Cle, he failed his first year in NE and was on the way to failing in year 2 until Brady stepped in.

.You pick and choose facts to match your criteria and overall talking points. In this case Brady could do no wrong and BB would be nothing without him.  Some are true and others are half truths. Kind of like politics.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, Jet Fan RI said:

Ah. So "greenwich" is Greenwich, RI.

Haha, no. Greenwich is Greenwich, CT. 

That post was a play on the guy that worked as a security guard at RISD when Seth McFarland attended...he's the basis for the Peter Griffin character. 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

rex w/ us was certainly head and shoulders better than BB w/ Cleveland.

If Rex had Brady he'd be a HOF coach too.  Rex whooped you in the div round w/ the much maligned Mark Sanchez in the biggest game ever btw the two coaches and two teams.

Now you've gone too far. Even Rex would have a good laugh on that one. 

[Jet Fan RI]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Haha, no. Greenwich is Greenwich, CT. 

That post was a play on the guy that worked as a security guard at RISD when Seth McFarland attended...he's the basis for the Peter Griffin character. 

Ah. You got me!