Would Mark Sanchez and Rex do better with this team?

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol yes just like Sanchez, the D did choke in the championship games.. if we had Brett Farve in 09, or a decent qb in 09/10 we win atleast one Super Bowl. But of course the rest of the league knows Sanchez is a bum. 3 teams in 2 years.. 3rd stringers who is on his way out of the league probably next yr.. Atleast mike T was awful and got him his $$.. Maybe he can play baseball with tebow next yr ?

Again, the parallels to what is going on with the Jets this very week are just amazing, you'd think some of you would eventually learn.

While the quarterback position has been awful for us for decades, it's the coaching and the defense that lets us down time and time again.  Go after Sanchez and Fitzpatrick, let Scott and Revis and Harris off the hook.  Good luck with that.

SAR I

[Jetsplayer21]

44 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Again, the parallels to what is going on with the Jets this very week are just amazing, you'd think some of you would eventually learn.

While the quarterback position has been awful for us for decades, it's the coaching and the defense that lets us down time and time again.  Go after Sanchez and Fitzpatrick, let Scott and Revis and Harris off the hook.  Good luck with that.

SAR I

But it was defense who Carried a horrible qb in 09/10. No they just couldn't carry him all the way. D has only gotten worse since 2010..only if mark could have played halfway decent as fitz did last.. I'm all for telling Bowles to shut up and make Mac draft offensive in 3 out of 4 of the top rounds next yr..

[SAR I]

34 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

But it was defense who Carried a horrible qb in 09/10. No they just couldn't carry him all the way. D has only gotten worse since 2010..only if mark could have played halfway decent as fitz did last.. I'm all for telling Bowles to shut up and make Mac draft offensive in 3 out of 4 of the top rounds next yr..

Look at the scores for and against in those '09 and '10 seasons, we weren't the '85 Bears. You can't name me a single game that defense won let alone a whole season.   Was our defense better than our offense? Absolutely. But they didn't carry anything.

Defense carried nothing in those years, they barely were able to take care of their own business with their bonehead penalties, stupid timeouts, and inablilty to close a game out let alone score and create field position for the rookie quarterback. He earned it on his own. 

SAR I

[detectivekimble]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

2009:  He's a 22 year old rookie who should be a senior in college.  After a 4-6 start, as one would expect from someone so young, he amazingly goes on a 7-2 streak culminating in the AFC Championship Game where he was the best Jet on the field, leads us to a halftime lead that our defense gives away.

2010:  We open the season 9-2 and never look back.  Mark Sanchez leads 5 miracle fourth quarter comebacks after the defense blows the lead including massive win in Pittsburgh.  11-5 record is second best in team history.

In both seasons he leads a stretch of 16 wins in 20 games, the best such run in team history.  A history, by the way, which you should spend a lot more time reviewing before you make such ludicrous statements.

SAR I

He was 23 in 2009.  Secondly, the guy wouldn't have had to make any fourth quarter comebacks if he put some ******* points on the board in the first three quarters.  A football game is four quarters.  30 points in three quarters and 0 in the fourth is better than 7 in the first three and 10 in the fourth.  The offense just needs to score as many points as possible.  He's lucky the defense was good and kept him in the games despite the constant three and outs and the failure to put points on the board.  

He did put up a big 0 in the first half against the Chargers in that playoff game.  0 against the Colts in the Wildcard game.  The loser wouldn't have been in any championship games if the defense didn't carry his ass.

He didn't lead sh*t.  

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Look at the scores for and against in those '09 and '10 seasons, we weren't the '85 Bears. You can't name me a single game that defense won let alone a whole season.   Was our defense better than our offense? Absolutely. But they didn't carry anything.

Defense carried nothing in those years, they barely were able to take care of their own business with their bonehead penalties, stupid timeouts, and inablilty to close a game out let alone score and create field position for the rookie quarterback. He earned it on his own. 

SAR I

The defense totally carried him.  Not only did he not put points on the board, but he constantly turned the ball over and couldn't even control the time of possession.  He put those defenses in bad spot after bad spot.  In 2009, he cost the Jets games against the Saints (no one did a better job against the Saints offense that season), the Bills (how do you lose a game where your team runs for 300 yards?), Falcons (7 points, 3 picks), maybe even the Jaguars.  He put up a stinker against the Patriots (1 TD, 4 INT).  With average QB play, that team was an 11-5, 12-4 team.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

The defense totally carried him.  Not only did he not put points on the board, but he constantly turned the ball over and couldn't even control the time of possession.  He put those defenses in bad spot after bad spot.  In 2009, he cost the Jets games against the Saints (no one did a better job against the Saints offense that season), the Bills (how do you lose a game where your team runs for 300 yards?), Falcons (7 points, 3 picks), maybe even the Jaguars.  He put up a stinker against the Patriots (1 TD, 4 INT).  With average QB play, that team was an 11-5, 12-4 team.

I'm not going to argue that Mark Sanchez was some fantastic quarterback nor am I going to say that his 2009 season was prolific.  It is very convenient to run to a quarterback's rookie season and find metrics to show that he was not effective.  In 2010, different story, Mark hit a good stride and brought us back from the dead in the fourth quarter on 5 occasions, that takes poise and that takes ability, two things Sanchez was developing nicely when surrounded with a decent RB and a talented set of WR's.  By 2012 those were taken and not replaced. 

The theme of the conversation regarding Mark Sanchez in this thread is if the Jets would have been better off sticking with him and reinvesting in him with a new staff rather than punting him and running with Geno Smith.  History shows we made the wrong decision.

Lastly, Mark Sanchez was not drafted to be Dan Marino.  He was the best QB available in a year when we had no other options, he was handed the starting role because the '09/'10 Jets were built to win on defense and a ground and pound rushing attack.  When we had those two elements, Mark showed year over year growth.  When we didn't, he struggled.  He was not supposed to carry the team.  But he did on several occasions.  That should be recognized. 

SAR I

[detectivekimble]

15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm not going to argue that Mark Sanchez was some fantastic quarterback nor am I going to say that his 2009 season was prolific.  It is very convenient to run to a quarterback's rookie season and find metrics to show that he was not effective.  In 2010, different story, Mark hit a good stride and brought us back from the dead in the fourth quarter on 5 occasions, that takes poise and that takes ability, two things Sanchez was developing nicely when surrounded with a decent RB and a talented set of WR's.  By 2012 those were taken and not replaced. 

The theme of the conversation regarding Mark Sanchez in this thread is if the Jets would have been better off sticking with him and reinvesting in him with a new staff rather than punting him and running with Geno Smith.  History shows we made the wrong decision.

Lastly, Mark Sanchez was not drafted to be Dan Marino.  He was the best QB available in a year when we had no other options, he was handed the starting role because the '09/'10 Jets were built to win on defense and a ground and pound rushing attack.  When we had those two elements, Mark showed year over year growth.  When we didn't, he struggled.  He was not supposed to carry the team.  But he did on several occasions.  That should be recognized. 

SAR I

He was the fifth overall pick.  What exactly do you think he was drafted to be?  The training wheels came off in 2011 and he was handed the team.  It was all down hill from there.

[drdetroit]

On October 15, 2016 at 10:54 PM, dcJet said:

Sanchez single handedly cost us two Super Bowl appearances with his sh*tty play in the regular season.  

We should have had the second seed twice if he didn't throw away all those games.

 

He was 4-2 in the playoffs both years but ya

[Randy Rasmussen]

Correction.  Fans like me made Fireman Ed quit.  I want credit where it's due. 
The new populous of MetLife Stadium has no patience for drunken spelling games, we don't need to get wasted to have a good time.  And a blue collar worker doesn't represent us.  This isn't Shea Stadium and tickets aren't $5 anymore.
SAR I

The new populous of MetLife Stadium is so smart that they overpay and accept the same inferior product that has been the trademark of this organization since the
sixties.
And then they run the only coach to have a winning record in playoff games out of town.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tinstar]

This is the same QB who threw 5 interceptions in the same game where the Jets ran for 300 yards and had 2 running backs both with over 100 yards . 

Funny, wasn't it also against Buffalo ?

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

He was the fifth overall pick.  What exactly do you think he was drafted to be?  The training wheels came off in 2011 and he was handed the team.  It was all down hill from there.

2011 he had his best #s season w/ 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season that would be out of football after that season. it's comical the way fans need a scapegoat.

it did go down but what QB outside of Brady could win w/ schilens, Hill, gates as their main weapons?

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

This is the same QB who threw 5 interceptions in the same game where the Jets ran for 300 yards and had 2 running backs both with over 100 yards . 

Funny, wasn't it also against Buffalo ?

he was awful that day in a very cold October game, I thought the California boy would never be able to play in NE cold. Thankfully those fears were put to rest w/ his outstanding postseason game at Cincy.

[detectivekimble]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

2011 he had his best #s season w/ 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season that would be out of football after that season. it's comical the way fans need a scapegoat.

it did go down but what QB outside of Brady could win w/ schilens, Hill, gates as their main weapons?

You should be better in your third year than second year.  And he may have had his best numbers in 2011, but he still stunk.  22 turnovers, 56% completion percentage, 78.2 QB rating, 6.40 average.

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

You should be better in your third year than second year.  And he may have had his best numbers in 2011, but he still stunk.  22 turnovers, 56% completion percentage, 78.2 QB rating, 6.40 average.

he certainly didn't stink, we had a top 10 O most of the season and he was a big reason why despite less than stellar weapons.

[detectivekimble]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he certainly didn't stink, we had a top 10 O most of the season and he was a big reason why despite less than stellar weapons.

When all was said and done, the Jets didn't have a top 10 offense.  

Also, Sanchez and Geno have the same problem.  You cringe whenever they drop back to throw the ball because you know that there's a good chance that something bad is going to happen.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, detectivekimble said:

Also, Sanchez and Geno have the same problem.  You cringe whenever they drop back to throw the ball because you know that there's a good chance that something bad is going to happen.

Well put.

[Jetsplayer21]

Sanchez wouldn't have suckked so bad if he hadn't thought he was actually so good.. 

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

When all was said and done, the Jets didn't have a top 10 offense.  

Also, Sanchez and Geno have the same problem.  You cringe whenever they drop back to throw the ball because you know that there's a good chance that something bad is going to happen.

they finished 11th I believe, they stumbled down the stretch for many reason but were top 10 the majority of that season.

 

I cringed when Mark dropped back when Chaz Schilens was his go to guy, I didn't cringe when he had talent to throw to like I do now w/ Fitz despite all the talent.

[ScarletKnight89]

50 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

When all was said and done, the Jets didn't have a top 10 offense.  

Also, Sanchez and Geno have the same problem.  You cringe whenever they drop back to throw the ball because you know that there's a good chance that something bad is going to happen.

It's because you know the decision making was proven to be so poor. Neither one just never grew as a player. Sanchez played like a rookie in year 4, Geno didn't get nearly the chance Sanchez did but he doesn't necessarily deserve it either. The Jets don't owe him anything. You just never saw any substantial progress in either player.

I don't kill the Jets for taking either player though. The value was there and it was worth the risk. But the 2008/2009 NFL drafts back to back have haunted this franchise. Our two first round picks in the top 6 of those two drafts, Vernon Gholston, and Mark Sanchez......ugh

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It's because you know the decision making was proven to be so poor. Neither one just never grew as a player. Sanchez played like a rookie in year 4, Geno didn't get nearly the chance Sanchez did but he doesn't necessarily deserve it either. The Jets don't owe him anything. You just never saw any substantial progress in either player.

I don't kill the Jets for taking either player though. The value was there and it was worth the risk. But the 2008/2009 NFL drafts back to back have haunted this franchise. Our two first round picks in the top 6 of those two drafts, Vernon Gholston, and Mark Sanchez......ugh

he played like a rookie in year 4 b/c he had the worst skill talent around him in the league, he played like a 10 year vet in year 2 when he had top 10ish talent to throw to.  that makes a huge difference.  Oh and not only did he not have talent to throw to in year 4 he had Sparano and tebow around to make it even worse.

[CanadaSteve]

Jeeeeepers....How the hell is this thread still going?

Are we REALLY debating the legitimacy of Sanchez and Ryan being better? 

[Jetsplayer21]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he played like a rookie in year 4 b/c he had the worst skill talent around him in the league, he played like a 10 year vet in year 2 when he had top 10ish talent to throw to.  that makes a huge difference.  Oh and not only did he not have talent to throw to in year 4 he had Sparano and tebow around to make it even worse.

Lol all the excuses for mark Sanchez who is barely surviving as a 3rd stringers on his 3rd team in two years. I guess we can blame all his failures on the jets..He was given all the chances in the worst.. He stunk for years.. Most qbs cannot suckk for as long as he did without being replaced.. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol all the excuses for mark Sanchez who is barely surviving as a 3rd stringers on his 3rd team in two years. I guess we can blame all his failures on the jets..

yep, excuses.  damn Mark for not taking us to a SB w/ Chaz Schilens as his go to guy!

[ScarletKnight89]

5 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Jeeeeepers....How the hell is this thread still going?

Are we REALLY debating the legitimacy of Sanchez and Ryan being better? 

Isn't it funny?

Both are gone from this team and rightfully so. Rex deserved to get fired and the Jets were smart to cut bait with Sanchez. Rex can save his coaching career, a lot of that depends on the situation you get put in, if you are at least a decent coach. That's something you can always get better at as well.

Sanchez is holding onto his NFL career by a thread, he'll be that guy who kicks around the league on a bunch of different teams for the rest of his career. He was a failure as a starter. I don't care if people think he could be better than Fitz. That doesn't make him good.

Mark Sanchez was released by the Jets, did nothing with Philly. And was outplayed by a rookie QB and a second year 7th rounder in Denver. He's not a good football player.

[Jetsplayer21]

41 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

yep, excuses.  damn Mark for not taking us to a SB w/ Chaz Schilens as his go to guy!

Lol.. Is this what it's going to be like in few yrs here? The fitz fanatics and geno groupies making pathetic excuses for our ex qbs? If I recall Braylon Edwards was pretty good , Keller, and cotch.. and having LT to throw to out of the backfield.. but let's just pretend we had the worst talent..

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol.. Is this what it's going to be like in few yrs here? The fitz fanatics and geno groupies making pathetic excuses for our ex qbs? If I recall Braylon Edwards was pretty good , Keller, and cotch.. and having LT to throw to out of the backfield.. but let's just pretend we had the worst talent..

Holmes too.  He had weapons, they thought they would be able to put out an impact offense but Sanchez was too reckless with the ball to run an wide open offense like others.  Its obvious to anyone who watched those games that an offense like that wasnt happening with Sanchez behind center.

 

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol.. Is this what it's going to be like in few yrs here? The fitz fanatics and geno groupies making pathetic excuses for our ex qbs? If I recall Braylon Edwards was pretty good , Keller, and cotch.. and having LT to throw to out of the backfield.. but let's just pretend we had the worst talent..

Fitz never even helped us get to the playoffs, w/ more talent than was around Mark.  Mark helped us nearly get to 2 SBs

[SAR I]

16 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

He was the fifth overall pick.  What exactly do you think he was drafted to be?  The training wheels came off in 2011 and he was handed the team.  It was all down hill from there.

He was the best quarterback available and that was the slot necessary to draft him ahead of others.  We had no quarterback after Brett Favre left.

There was nothing coming out of college indicating he was the next Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, that's the point, so holding him to that standard is unfair.

SAR I

[SAR I]

7 hours ago, Randy Rasmussen said:

The new populous of MetLife Stadium is so smart that they overpay and accept the same inferior product that has been the trademark of this organization since the
sixties.  And then they run the only coach to have a winning record in playoff games out of town.

Rex Ryan was given all the support in the world, he ran the team, he was not only the Head Coach but also the defacto Defensive Coordinator and General Manager as well.  He was given all the tools to succeed and didn't.

Mark Sanchez was supported with carpetbagging WR's on their last legs in his first two seasons and then summarily ignored for two seasons as his Head Coach loaded up the defense and ignored the offense.  He was never given the tools to succeed and couldn't.

That's the difference.  Rex was set up to succeed, Mark was set up to fail.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

He was the best quarterback available and that was the slot necessary to draft him ahead of others.  We had no quarterback after Brett Favre left.

There was nothing coming out of college indicating he was the next Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, that's the point, so holding him to that standard is unfair.

SAR I

The point is that he didnt need to be a HOF QB, so why compare him to one going in and another with that kind of talent.  Point is he never even developed into 1st round talent, never mind the 5th pick.  .

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

2011 he had his best #s season w/ 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season that would be out of football after that season. it's comical the way fans need a scapegoat.

it did go down but what QB outside of Brady could win w/ schilens, Hill, gates as their main weapons?

Mark was improving despite the worst WR's in the NFL like Schilens and Gates, oh, and don't forget the offensive coordinator, the immortal Tony Sparano.  Then they openly flirt with Peyton Manning.  Then they bring in Tim Tebow.  If you laid out on paper a great way to kill a potential first-round franchise quarterback you couldn't execute it any better than Rex Ryan did.  So ridiculous what happened, we'll never know what might have been with some proper tutelage and consistent receivers.

And everyone conveniently forgets the 2011 season where we were 8-5 with three cupcakes ahead of us and the defense gave up 45 points to Philadelphia and 29 points to the Giants which destroyed our second consecutive 11-5 season.  Nah, blame Mark Sanchez.  It's always how it is here.  Blame the quarterback because the '85 Bears D and the Ground And Pound O failed.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

When all was said and done, the Jets didn't have a top 10 offense.  

Also, Sanchez and Geno have the same problem.  You cringe whenever they drop back to throw the ball because you know that there's a good chance that something bad is going to happen.

Wait, so when Mark Sanchez leads a Top 10 offense by the numbers that doesn't count and when he puts up bad quarterback play by the numbers that does count.  I like it.  Let's all pick metrics we like and ignore the ones we don't.

Mark Sanchez 1) was money in the postseason, 2) proved he had the ability to win games in the 4th quarter, and 3) was showing improvement despite his head coach trying to get him killed.  We would have been smarter to give this guy another look with a decent coordinator before casting him aside, but that's not how scapegoating works, that's not how Rex Ryan gets to keep his job another year or two without merit.

SAR I

 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

he played like a rookie in year 4 b/c he had the worst skill talent around him in the league, he played like a 10 year vet in year 2 when he had top 10ish talent to throw to.  that makes a huge difference.  Oh and not only did he not have talent to throw to in year 4 he had Sparano and tebow around to make it even worse.

Bingo.

Perfectly stated.  Too late now, but when one thinks about how things might have been if we recognized the best QB we'd drafted since Namath it makes you sick.  Lost in all the Rex Ryan drama and the stupidity of the Buttfumble was a young QB with potential.  And we blew it.  Same Ol' Jets.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Wait, so when Mark Sanchez leads a Top 10 offense by the numbers that doesn't count and when he puts up bad quarterback play by the numbers that does count.  I like it.  Let's all pick metrics we like and ignore the ones we don't.

Mark Sanchez 1) was money in the postseason, 2) proved he had the ability to win games in the 4th quarter, and 3) was showing improvement despite his head coach trying to get him killed.  We would have been smarter to give this guy another look with a decent coordinator before casting him aside, but that's not how scapegoating works, that's not how Rex Ryan gets to keep his job another year or two without merit.

SAR I

 

 

[SAR I]

47 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol.. Is this what it's going to be like in few yrs here? The fitz fanatics and geno groupies making pathetic excuses for our ex qbs? If I recall Braylon Edwards was pretty good , Keller, and cotch.. and having LT to throw to out of the backfield.. but let's just pretend we had the worst talent..

You are referring to 2009 and 2010 when our young babe who should have been a college senior was winning playoff games and going 18-4 at one point.

Those weapons you mention were long gone by the time 2011 and 2012 rolled around, the two years that ended offense in New York and in which Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum scapegoated Mark Sanchez for their defensive blunders.

SAR I