Would Mark Sanchez and Rex do better with this team?

[Warfish]

On 10/12/2016 at 6:25 PM, SAR I said:

When I see Boomer Esiason successful on TV and radio I remember how bad he was as a Jet and I seethe at him.

When Vinny Testaverde disassociates himself from the Jets like a hermit I smile in satisfaction.

When I see Chad Pennington sheepishly winding the air raid siren I boo him loudly.

Mark Sanchez is the most underappreciated Jet in team history.

SAR I

Mark Sanchez is Geno Smith.  

Success under Sanchez was Sanchez being carried, literally.

Proof was watching him fail horribly against nobodies in his later jobs in Denver, etc.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Mark Sanchez is Geno Smith.  

Success under Sanchez was Sanchez being carried, literally.

Proof was watching him fail horribly against nobodies in his later jobs in Denver, etc.

he never had a chance in denver so that's a silly argument and he did well in philly in his only extended action.  Mark was vital to thsoe title game runs, obviously the D led the way but Mark made plays something no jets QBs have done in big games consistently...EVER.  Mark and rex here today and we are SB contenders.

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

My agenda, is that I have no agenda. Other than my agenda, to see the dummies whipped into a frenzy... so, I guess it's a form of appreciation.

Yes, if there is one thing most people feel for you it is appreciation.

I know the feeling well myself.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

You should have stopped your post right there.  Listen to what you're saying and remember the type of defense we were supposed to have (we didn't) and what type of running game we were supposed to have (we didn't) in 2011 and 2012. 

When you commit to trying to win with the 1985 Bears defense and the 1963 Browns rushing attack as your model and those two units fail you are forced to try to win it in the air and Mark Sanchez wasn't Dan Fouts, and Tony Sparano, Clyde Gates and Chas Schillens weren't Air Coryell and we had to throw 50 times a game and that led a guy who was supposed to be a game manager with comeback ability to play out of position and turn into an interception machine.

The problem with those Jets, and the problem with today's Jets, is that we can't win the way we are supposed to and so we have no choice but to throw too much at the passing game and the quarterback isn't capable of it.  We didn't draft Peyton Manning in Mark Sanchez, we didn't sign Joe Montana in Ryan Fitzpatrick, yet this fanbase holds them both accountable to these ridiculous standards instead of focusing on the real issues.

SAR I

 

But I think you’re missing an important part, which is what I talk about in the rest of my post. The team was expecting Mark Sanchez to continue to make strives forward and become a good NFL QB, at least a good NFL QB, at the very least. He didn’t. Once again, this is the 5^th overall pick who the Jets traded up to get. Expecting a guy who needs a great defense, running game, elite talent all around him to win isn’t right. Mark Sanchez was not suppose to be just the reason we don’t lose like Fitz is. He was suppose to be the guy who makes players around him better. He wasn’t.

 

That’s why if you go back to 2011 the plan was for the Jets to let Sanchez air it out and move away from the “ground and pound” philosophy of the first two years. They signed Holmes to a big deal, brought in Burress and Mason, had Keller and Kerley. Those are pretty good weapons. Mark Sanchez fell flat on his face.

 

Now did the Jets make mistakes along the way? Of course they did. Letting Cotchery go was a mistake, the 2012 season as a whole was a mistake. But it was a combination of bad spending and drafting which is why Tannenbaum was let go. One of those bad draft picks was Sanchez.

 

Sparano was brought in to hopefully reintroduce the ground and pound philosophy of years past because they didn’t feel Sanchez was ready, or would ever be ready to be a top thrower of the football. The season turned out to be a disaster. And yes, you are totally right, the Jets never win the way they are suppose to win. I agree with that completely.

 

People who bash Fitzpatrick are wrong to do so. We know what he is. But the people who bash Sanchez expected him to be a very good NFL QB. Not a decent game manager. He was the 5^th pick in the draft. Even comparing him to Fitzpatrick is ridiculous. There are completely different expectations with the two.

[ZachEY]

43 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Other then Revis,Mangold,Harris and Brick who were the other great players?? Jenkins played a total of 7 games for Rex in 2 years. Leon was gone after 7 games.. The D line had a 32 year old Ellis,Pouha who was considered a bust,Mike Devito and CJ Mosley.. Plus no QB what a loaded team a Head coaches dream no doubt, even better then the loaded team that Bill Walsh left George Seifert with 2 HOF QB's Montana and Young..

Hard pass on debating with you.

[Integrity28]

27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, if there is one thing most people feel for you it is appreciation.

I know the feeling well myself.

I was expressing that I appreciate what SAR does. I that was pretty clearly stated, but you whelping has been noted.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

But, Mark Sanchez was by no means a game manager.  In fact, since his entrance into the league, no one has a higher turnover/game ratio.  Would we be better off today with him then Fitz?  Maybe.  Would we be good?  No evidence to suggest that.

Not many 22 year old college junior's who get drafted in April get a starting job in August, the fact that we got into the playoffs behind a raw rookie like that is amazing, his interceptions were terrible, but did we expect more?  He wasn't a consensus can't-miss like Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck.  Way too much focus on stats in these parts, he passed the 2009 and 2010 eye tests. 

It's pure conjecture unfortunately, we'll never know what might have been if our 24 year old playoff winning quarterback were given a decent OC and legitimate WR's as he had during the runs to the title games.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not many 22 year old college junior's who get drafted in April get a starting job in August, the fact that we got into the playoffs behind a raw rookie like that is amazing, his interceptions were terrible, but did we expect more?  He wasn't a consensus can't-miss like Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck.  Way too much focus on stats in these parts, he passed the 2009 and 2010 eye tests. 

It's pure conjecture unfortunately, we'll never know what might have been if our 24 year old playoff winning quarterback were given a decent OC and legitimate WR's as he had during the runs to the title games.

SAR I

his INTs as a rookie were overblown.  most of them came in 3-4 really bad games, he was fine the majority of that season and played really well in postseason.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Mark Sanchez is Geno Smith.  

Success under Sanchez was Sanchez being carried, literally.

Proof was watching him fail horribly against nobodies in his later jobs in Denver, etc.

I'm not going to argue Sanchez with you, we did that for 5 years, I don't win the argument that he was a great quarterback nor is it a popular platform.

However, no one, not you or I, knows what might have happened if we tried harder to develop him.  No point in talking about it under most circumstances, but I find it appropriate during a week like this where so many are scratching their heads wondering how we got here and banging their heads against a wall because our QB options are so bad.  In August of 2011 we were quite satisfied with the growth our 23 year old quarterback had made between 2009 and 2010 and there was no reason to believe he would regress in December when we were sitting at 8-5 before our defense gave up 45 points to the Eagles and then blew the Giants game to send the Rex Ryan era to oblivion.

SAR I

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I was expressing that I appreciate what SAR does.

Thank you.  It's the camaraderie and warm feelings that make Jetnation such a great forum.

SAR I

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I was expressing that I appreciate what SAR does. I that was pretty clearly stated, but you whelping has been noted.

Are we having a dispute without my knowledge? I didn't realize we were having a thing. 

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Are we having a dispute without my knowledge? I didn't realize we were having a thing. 

No, any post of yours that is less than 14 paragraphs, constitutes a "whelp".

It is known.

[Integrity28]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm not going to argue Sanchez with you, we did that for 5 years, I don't win the argument that he was a great quarterback nor is it a popular platform.

However, no one, not you or I, knows what might have happened if we tried harder to develop him.  No point in talking about it under most circumstances, but I find it appropriate during a week like this where so many are scratching their heads wondering how we got here and banging their heads against a wall because our QB options are so bad.  In August of 2011 we were quite satisfied with the growth our 23 year old quarterback had made between 2009 and 2010 and there was no reason to believe he would regress in December when we were sitting at 8-5 before our defense gave up 45 points to the Eagles and then blew the Giants game to send the Rex Ryan era to oblivion.

SAR I

"Geno lover" ^^^

[T0mShane]

I have formulated a stat here:

 

Rex Ryan's record when he's about to get fired: 14-2

 

Rex Ryan's record in every other contest: 37-65

[Savage69]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I have formulated a stat here:

 

Rex Ryan's record when he's about to get fired: 14-2

 

Rex Ryan's record in every other contest: 37-65

Ryan is actually 57-60 And your hero Mangini was 33-47   http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ 

[detectivekimble]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

I can't find it on YouTube, but if you watch the Chris Collinsworth call of the play and the replays, it's very clear that Moore got owned, Sanchez started to slide, Wilfork saw Sanchez coming, Wilfork threw Moore into Sanchez.

I realize Mark Sanchez has to be blamed for everything that ever went wrong in the Rex Ryan era so this is an unpopular truth.

SAR I

So what?  He was wrong.  It's like when John Sterling calls a ball a HR, when it's not.  Just because he said it doesn't make it true.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

"Geno lover" ^^^

I recognize the irony, the difference being a pretty big deal:

Before the Jets FO crapped the offense, Mark Sanchez had success, 24 wins in two years, an 18-4 run at one point, 4 road playoff wins, and at the very least had shown himself worthy of further investment.

Geno Smith, nothing.  Just a 4-12 bust.  Say what you will about Sanchez, and I won't deny the criticism, but putting him in the same sentence as Smith is an outrage, that will not be tolerated.

SAR I

[SAR I]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I have formulated a stat here:

Rex Ryan's record when he's about to get fired: 14-2

Rex Ryan's record in every other contest: 37-65

Without question, you are my second-favorite poster on JN.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

So what?  He was wrong.  It's like when John Sterling calls a ball a HR, when it's not.  Just because he said it doesn't make it true.

How about a quote from someone who was involved in the play?

"I guess (I was) more stunned than anything," the New York Jets quarterback told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "Just like a car accident. I was like, 'Whoa. What just happened?' Then, the ball's gone. It was weird."

"It's embarrassing," Sanchez said. "You screw up the play, and I'm trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm trying to force something. I start to slide, and I slide right in the worst spot I possibly could: right into Brandon Moore." He added: "I was trying to slide, but I don't know how to explain it. It was a wild one."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000102529/article/mark-sanchez-stunned-by-new-york-jets-buttfumble

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2012/11/mark_sanchez_embarrassed_by_no.html

SAR I

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I recognize the irony, the difference being a pretty big deal:

Before the Jets FO crapped the offense, Mark Sanchez had success, 24 wins in two years, an 18-4 run at one point, 4 road playoff wins, and at the very least had shown himself worthy of further investment.

Geno Smith, nothing.  Just a 4-12 bust.  Say what you will about Sanchez, and I won't deny the criticism, but putting him in the same sentence as Smith is an outrage, that will not be tolerated.

SAR I

they handed him the keys to the offense when his main weapons were Chaz Schilens, rookie Stephen Hill and Clyde Gates but it was all Mark's fault.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

How about a quote from someone who was involved in the play?

"I guess (I was) more stunned than anything," the New York Jets quarterback told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "Just like a car accident. I was like, 'Whoa. What just happened?' Then, the ball's gone. It was weird."

"It's embarrassing," Sanchez said. "You screw up the play, and I'm trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm trying to force something. I start to slide, and I slide right in the worst spot I possibly could: right into Brandon Moore."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000102529/article/mark-sanchez-stunned-by-new-york-jets-buttfumble

SAR I

who cares about that one play in a game we were getting crushed in anyway.  we had a bad team, his play in big games for us far outweighs one embarrassing moment in a game we had no chance anyway.

[detectivekimble]

Just now, SAR I said:

How about a quote from someone who was involved in the play?

"I guess (I was) more stunned than anything," the New York Jets quarterback told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "Just like a car accident. I was like, 'Whoa. What just happened?' Then, the ball's gone. It was weird."

"It's embarrassing," Sanchez said. "You screw up the play, and I'm trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm trying to force something. I start to slide, and I slide right in the worst spot I possibly could: right into Brandon Moore."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000102529/article/mark-sanchez-stunned-by-new-york-jets-buttfumble

SAR I

So Sanchez admits that he slid into Brandon Moore, not that Brandon Moore was pushed into his path.  Which is what happened.

Sanchez was actually fixated on the safety and he didn't even see Moore.  That's why he ran straight into his ass.

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

So what?  He was wrong.  It's like when John Sterling calls a ball a HR, when it's not.  Just because he said it doesn't make it true.

More:

"The play itself is pretty bad, but it’s not like Sanchez made a conscious decision to slide into Brandon Moore’s butt. Sanchez was going to slide at the end of a busted play just as Moore was pushed backward; it was a remarkable confluence of particularly awful events, which is fun, but I think we can do better."

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-worst-plays-in-nfl-history/

SAR I

[peebag]

Mark Sanchez was given the keys to a Super Bowl championship team and promptly got cut.

 

Let us speak no more of the Sanchize.

[detectivekimble]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

More:

"The play itself is pretty bad, but it’s not like Sanchez made a conscious decision to slide into Brandon Moore’s butt. Sanchez was going to slide at the end of a busted play just as Moore was pushed backward; it was a remarkable confluence of particularly awful events, which is fun, but I think we can do better."

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-worst-plays-in-nfl-history/

SAR I

"The Collinsworth guy, I've never really been a big fan of his," Moore said. "To portray it that way and to see it on TV ... when somebody slides into the back of you, you're going to fall. That happens a lot in general.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8680796/new-york-jets-brandon-moore-tied-forever-mark-sanchez-famous-fumble

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

Mark Sanchez was given the keys to a Super Bowl championship team and promptly got cut.

 

Let us speak no more of the Sanchize.

No he was not, he was vet insurance if their young guys weren't ready.  Unfortunately for him Siemien was ready.

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

who cares about that one play in a game we were getting crushed in anyway.  we had a bad team, his play in big games for us far outweighs one embarrassing moment in a game we had no chance anyway.

Agreed.  The only reason I go Sanchez this week is because of the typical scapegoating by the naive fanbase towards Fitzpatrick and the fact that the abandonment of Sanchez has come back to roost right at this moment. 

We had two paths in 2013 and we chose the wrong one.  While we suspect that the Sanchez path might have failed we definitely know the Smith path was a disaster.  It would have been better to skip the impulse draft on the falling Geno and give Sanchez a little support.  These are facts now, no longer conjecture. 

SAR I

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Agreed.  The only reason I go Sanchez this week is because of the typical scapegoating by the naive fanbase towards Fitzpatrick and the fact that the abandonment of Sanchez has come back to roost right at this moment. 

We had two paths in 2013 and we chose the wrong one.  While we suspect that the Sanchez path might have failed we definitely know the Smith path was a disaster.  It would have been better to skip the impulse draft on the falling Geno and give Sanchez a little support.  These are facts now, no longer conjecture.

SAR I

the fanbase always need scapegoats, we go through this cycle every few years. a  year ago Bowles was the greatest and rex sucked, now the fanbase wants a new coach(I am down on bowles but certainly don't want a change).  the next coach and QB will get the same treatment and the cycle will go on and on and on.

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

So Sanchez admits that he slid into Brandon Moore, not that Brandon Moore was pushed into his path.  Which is what happened.

Sanchez was actually fixated on the safety and he didn't even see Moore.  That's why he ran straight into his ass.

The Jets would have been better off to stick with Mark Sanchez and never draft Geno Smith.  We can call it now.  That's a fact.

You can play revisionist buttfumble history all you want, we made the wrong move in 2013.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

The Jets would have been better off to stick with Mark Sanchez and never draft Geno Smith.  We can call it now.  That's a fact.

You can play revisionist buttfumble history all you want, we made the wrong move in 2013.

SAR I

chances are we would have been a playoff team in 2013 if Rex isn't pressured by the inept GM to play Geno which forced Rex to insert Mark into that preseason game.  

[detectivekimble]

Just now, SAR I said:

The Jets would have been better off to stick with Mark Sanchez and never draft Geno Smith.  We can call it now.  That's a fact.

You can play revisionist buttfumble history all you want, we made the wrong move in 2013.

SAR I

Sanchez wasn't the answer and neither is Geno Smith.  

But you're still wrong about the butt fumble.  Sanchez and Moore both say that it was on Sanchez.

[joewilly12]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

Sanchez wasn't the answer and neither is Geno Smith.  

But you're still wrong about the butt fumble.  Sanchez and Moore both say that it was on Sanchez.

Neither is Ryan Fitzpatrick last year or this year this organization goes backwards time and time again ever wonder why its been 47 years and counting.

[Integrity28]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I recognize the irony, the difference being a pretty big deal:

Before the Jets FO crapped the offense, Mark Sanchez had success, 24 wins in two years, an 18-4 run at one point, 4 road playoff wins, and at the very least had shown himself worthy of further investment.

Geno Smith, nothing.  Just a 4-12 bust.  Say what you will about Sanchez, and I won't deny the criticism, but putting him in the same sentence as Smith is an outrage, that will not be tolerated.

SAR I

Well done.

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

"The Collinsworth guy, I've never really been a big fan of his," Moore said. "To portray it that way and to see it on TV ... when somebody slides into the back of you, you're going to fall. That happens a lot in general.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8680796/new-york-jets-brandon-moore-tied-forever-mark-sanchez-famous-fumble

On the NBC telecast, Collinsworth credited Patriots defensive tackle Vince Wilfork, saying Wilfork "just threw Brandon Moore into Mark Sanchez ... This is what Reggie White used to do to people, just fork-lift them."

Reached by phone Monday, Collinsworth maintained his opinion, although he softened his description. He praised Wilfork for recognizing the busted play and "instead of trying to go around Moore, he pushed him back into the play and made the whole thing happen."

Collinsworth called it a "clever" play by a cagey veteran, adding that Wilfork -- and not Moore -- had the benefit of seeing the play develop. Moore didn't know Sanchez had missed the handoff, but he knew there was a hiccup.

I think we're good now.  The play wasn't Moore's fault but the fact is if Moore won the battle with Wilfork then Wilfork wouldn't have pile-drived Moore into the sliding Sanchez.

Geno Smith is still the problem.  You can play revisionist buttfumble history all you want, we made the wrong move in 2013.

SAR I

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, detectivekimble said:

Sanchez wasn't the answer and neither is Geno Smith.  

But you're still wrong about the butt fumble.  Sanchez and Moore both say that it was on Sanchez.

If you compare it to a traffic accident, it is as if 2 cars got in an accident at an obvious intersection, and Sanchez another vehicle, moving forward, with everything in full view, that drove right into the collision in plain site.