I love this HC

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Only on his lame duck year...

No. The game in Miami with Holmes. Geno missing a meeting. Yes it did happen

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

to put my position into context, I don't think Rex was a bad coach either. These guys are defensive HC's and while not amazing, they are acceptable HC's in the NFL. give Rex or Bowles a franchise QB and all of a sudden people will say they are geniuses. 

There's a reason why the coach makes 1 mil a year and the QB makes 12 (or on other teams 18 or 25). It's those players, the highly paid stars (Revis, Mo etc) who make the difference between winning and losing. Even guys like Decker and Clady are among the highest paid on the team. If those guys get hurt or get old or don't perform, no coach in the universe can make the team win games. 

 

Like if Bowles just yelled at Revis more, he'd age in reverse? This team's problems are way bigger than the HC and firing this guy doesn't change those problems. 

No doubt, stars matter. But the Jets have been outcoached in numerous games, mostly due to Bowles's passivity. And coaching does matter, just as much or more, because NFL teams are comprised of a handful of stars and a bunch of grunts and it's often the plays made by the grunts that sustain things until the stars make the plays. He's not getting much out of either.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Wouldn't have beaten Cincy. Then fans would have been pissed because they would have gotten a lower draft pick

Wow... ok... you know this for a fact.. Come on... now you are just guessing. Lame excuse, 2 years ... No playoffs.. Lack of leadership, players quitting, bad play calling, bad to management.... And you accept this? This is ok to you... As a fan?

[phill1c]

5 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

But Rex's teams gave everything on every play... you didn't see people giving up or not showing up to meetings... That is A HUGE issue

Really? I don't believe that for a moment.

The only reason we know that Sheldon and Mo missed a meeting is because they were benched. Maybe Rex just didn't bench them. I know I didn't see any difference in the level or intensity of play between the losing Rex teams and this one.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Wow... ok... you know this for a fact.. Come on... now you are just guessing. Lame excuse, 2 years ... No playoffs.. Lack of leadership, players quitting, bad play calling, bad to management.... And you accept this? This is ok to you... As a fan?

Rex, Herm, Eric all made the playoffs their first few years. What happened to them?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, phill1c said:

Really? I don't believe that for a moment.

The only reason we know that Sheldon and Mo missed a meeting is because they were benched. Maybe Rex just didn't bench them. I know I didn't see any difference in the level or intensity of play between the losing Rex teams and this one.

People have selective amnesia with Rex. He is 14-13 in two seasons with Buffalo. With a good QB.

Because deep down, they like Rex over Bowles anyway. It;s more fun to win with Rex than to win with Bowles.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

No. The game in Miami with Holmes. Geno missing a meeting. Yes it did happen

Sure, you got me... what can i say... If you think this is the same as Rex or better I have no idea what you are watching... I haven't seen a team this bad since Kotite. Now that was a horrible coach. And if you think Geno missing a meeting (and getting in trouble for it) is the same as Mo and Sheldon we will have to disagree... and Holmes giving up on the last game of the season is the same as Revis giving up multiple times a game throughout the year are the same... again we will have to disagree

 

[Skeptable]

Just now, phill1c said:

Really? I don't believe that for a moment.

The only reason we know that Sheldon and Mo missed a meeting is because they were benched. Maybe Rex just didn't bench them. I know I didn't see any difference in the level or intensity of play between the losing Rex teams and this one.

Its a well known fact that all players love Rex and play their heart out for him. You never hear that about Bowles.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Sure, you got me... what can i say... If you think this is the same as Rex or better I have no idea what you are watching... I haven't seen a team this bad since Kotite. Now that was a horrible coach. And if you think Geno missing a meeting (and getting in trouble for it) is the same as Mo and Sheldon we will have to disagree... and Holmes giving up on the last game of the season is the same as Revis giving up multiple times a game throughout the year are the same... again we will have to disagree

 

Then I need to ask you what team YOU are watching.

4 of their losses are by one score or less.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Its a well known fact that all players love Rex and play their heart out for him. You never hear that about Bowles.

Have you seen a player mutinize like Holmes did on Bowles?

[phill1c]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Its a well known fact that all players love Rex and play their heart out for him. You never hear that about Bowles.

ALL players love a "player's coach" who shows them no discipline. Playing their hearts out?! It's a myth that the press perpetuates and nobody is going to refute.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

People have selective amnesia with Rex. He is 14-13 in two seasons with Buffalo. With a good QB.

Because deep down, they like Rex over Bowles anyway. It;s more fun to win with Rex than to win with Bowles.

I don't want either... I want a coach like Del Rio... or Fox.. those are head coaches.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

I don't want either... I want a coach like Del Rio... or Fox.. those are head coaches.

Del Rio is staying in Oakland. 

John Fox has spit the bit in Chicago.

[Skeptable]

Just now, phill1c said:

ALL players love a "player's coach" who shows them no discipline. Playing their hearts out?! It's a myth that the press perpetuates and nobody is going to refute.

I disagree, as a former Division 1 Athlete I completely disagree.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Have you seen a player mutinize like Holmes did on Bowles?

Revis! and Sheldon!

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Revis!

No. Not taking himself out of the game" That's what I mean

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Then I need to ask you what team YOU are watching.

4 of their losses are by one score or less.

Effort... its all about effort.

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I disagree... the Jets could have Luck right now and they still would suck...  

 

it's hypothetical so we'll never know but I strongly disagree. If the team has a franchise QB all of a sudden they have confidence.

All of these rosters have world class athletes. The differences between these teams are what the players believe they can do. 

And Todd Bowles can't tell them different than their eyes see. These guys are pros they know the difference between a Luck and Fitz and a Petty.  They provide effort commensurate with those differences. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Effort... its all about effort.

Very true. And in their last game, they showed plenty of effort. 

 

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I disagree, as a former Division 1 Athlete I completely disagree.

You played for Rex Ryan?

Because you can only really say how motivated YOU were on the teams that YOU played for.

In any event, I don't see much difference--in the results and in how it looks on my TV--between the last few years of Rex Ryan and this year under Todd Bowles. If the Jets were playing their hearts out, they much have had some really small hearts. And it didn't matter because they won all of 12 games in the last two years. The Jets already have 13 under Bowles.

Quite frankly, I'm not happy with either. I loved Rex Ryan. But his message got old and he didnt' grow as a HC. I don't know what Bowles's message is but I'm not seeing any advancement in his in-game management or holding players accountable or motivating them.

But I wouldn't want either of them. Rex is a one-trick pony "run through a wall for me..." and how many walls can players run through before they have to be put in the concussion protocol? Alas, Bowles doesn't seem to have even one trick.

[Skeptable]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Very true. And in their last game, they showed plenty of effort. 

You think Revis beaten by 2 YARDS on a 7 yard play is effort?

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

People have selective amnesia with Rex. He is 14-13 in two seasons with Buffalo. With a good QB. 

 

Taylor isn't that good. He's about average. He's like 16th or so if you were going to rank all the starters.

Rex is 14-13, Bowles is 13-14 over the same time, they are the same coach the difference is that Rex is loud and Bowles is quiet. But they are basically the same dude. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, phill1c said:

You played for Rex Ryan?

Because you can only really say how motivated YOU were on the teams that YOU played for.

In any event, I don't see much difference--in the results and in how it looks on my TV--between the last few years of Rex Ryan and this year under Todd Bowles. If the Jets were playing their hearts out, they much have had some really small hearts. And it didn't matter because they won all of 12 games in the last two years.

No, I can tell you the difference between a player coach and playing your heart out and a non-player coach.

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Taylor isn't that good. He's about average. He's like 16th or so if you were going to rank all the starters.

Rex is 14-13, Bowles is 13-14 over the same time, they are the same coach the difference is that Rex is loud and Bowles is quiet. But they are basically the same dude. 

Oh wow, I totally agree!!

But where I disagree is that better coaching would matter. and that there are better coaches.

[Skeptable]

Its disgusting to watch this team... They are terrible, and its sad to see that the fan base is complacent with what they have shown. 

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Taylor isn't that good. He's about average. He's like 16th or so if you were going to rank all the starters.

Rex is 14-13, Bowles is 13-14 over the same time, they are the same coach the difference is that Rex is loud and Bowles is quiet. But they are basically the same dude. 

Which is why the Jets are not a national laughingstock (Rex) and are simply the Brooklyn Nets; nobody cares (Bowles)

I just had an epiphany. The Jets are the White Sox, not the Cubs. 

The Jets are the New Jersey Nets and Chicago White Sox. Teams nobody outside their fanbase cares for.

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You think Revis beaten by 2 YARDS on a 7 yard play is effort?

They held the Pats to 22 points. That's effort to me.

[phill1c]

6 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

No, I can tell you the difference between a player coach and playing your heart out and a non-player coach.

Hmmm, ok. But, really, who cares if you're 4-12 or 8-8?

I don't.

And, really, you need someone to motivate you to do your best?? I thought love of the game not getting your head bashed in, and being paid a king's ransom was enough. Who knew you had to have a carnival barker motivating you with bullsh*t bravado?

[Skeptable]

Just now, phill1c said:

Hmmm, ok. But, really, who cares if you're 4-12 or 8-8?

I don't.

And, really, you need someone to motivate you to do your best?? I thought love of the game not getting your head bashed in, and being paid a king's ransom was enough. Who knew you had to have a carnival barker motivating you with bullsh*t bravado?

I agree... I find it fundamentally disturbing the way they play. That's all, no I don't want Rex... I want a coach who knows what the **** he is doing for once.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I agree... I find it fundamentally disturbing the way they play. That's all, no I don't want Rex... I want a coach who knows what the **** he is doing for once.

Ok then. We are on the same page.

I thought you were making sense, then you went into this Rex Ryan love fest...

[bitonti]

14 minutes ago, phill1c said:

But where I disagree is that better coaching would matter. and that there are better coaches.

 

maybe there is a better coach out there but looking at the coaching market is more depressing than looking at the QB market. 

and even if there was someone better, why would they come here? To get fired after 2 years because the owner looks at billboards? 

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The Jets are the New Jersey Nets and Chicago White Sox. Teams nobody outside their fanbase cares for.

 

the Jets are the Washington Generals. a team of perennial losers that wear green and exist purely to make the teams wearing red white and blue look good. 

[phill1c]

Just now, bitonti said:

maybe there is a better coach out there but looking at the coaching market is more depressing than looking at the QB market. 

and even if there was someone better, why would they come here? To get fired after 2 years because the owner looks at billboards? 

Hmm, so you think Rex Ryan, whose last playoff team was 4 years past and idzik, who only had half a team under contract, got fired because of a billboard?

They got fired because even a blind person could see that Idzik was woeful as a manager and Rex Ryan hadn't developed as a coach and wasn't winning.

But, yeah, I agree with the notion that there is not a great market out there. Doesn't mean that Bowles has done anything to keep this job.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets are the Washington Generals. a team of perennial losers that wear green and exist purely to make the teams wearing red white and blue look good. 

the truth realllllly hurts.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

Hmm, so you think Rex Ryan, whose last playoff team was 4 years past and idzik, who only had half a team under contract, got fired because of a billboard?

They got fired because even a blind person could see that Idzik was woeful as a manager and Rex Ryan hadn't developed as a coach and wasn't winning.

But, yeah, I agree with the notion that there is not a great market out there. Doesn't mean that Bowles has done anything to keep this job.

1

Marvin lewis has been in Cinci for 14 years and still hasn't won the big game. But before this season they had like 5 winning seasons in a row.

it took Bill cowher a similar amount of time to get Pittsburgh to the promised land 

meanwhile the Jets fire coaches every 3-5 years a human sacrifice to appease the Tom Shanes of the fan base. 

Rex not winning is like Bowles not winning. The horses are glue don't blame the jockey.