I love this HC

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the reason why the defense has no gas left at the end of these games is because the offense isn't doing their job. If the defense has to play 80 plays per game because the offense can't convert on 3rd down, that's not on the defense. 

That old excuse again? I used to love debunking that when Sanchez was here and everyone would use that excuse for the late D collapses.

 

For the game NE had the ball for 30:36 while we had it 29:24.  We basically had it 14 mins of the 2^nd half, why exactly should they have collapsed late on Sunday?

[Tinstar]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

A few things:

- I dont believe you.

- I like a lot of people in this world because of who they are and what they stand for but if they dont have the right skill set, I'm not hiring on my team. 

- And being stubborn and unwilling to change doesnt make you great.  In fact, it often time makes you very stupid.  History has a long list of people who were set in their ways, unwilling to change and failed greatly.  

- Todd Bowles is not building the foundation.  Big Mac is.  Todd doesnt even report to his GM.  He's worthless because he's not good at the one thing he's supposed to be good at...coaching.  And apparently doesnt have much say in the direction or excuse me, foundation.

- I can honestly say that Todd Bowles has changed because he's a liar.  Remember the best player will play?  We dont play favorites?  Everyone is held to the same standard?  These are quotes that all have come from his mouth and have all proven to be flat out lies.

- Everything you claim to love about him, is obstructing the creation of the foundation. 

Who on this roster gives the Jets the best chance to win at QB ?

Who would you say is better than Revis at the opposite CB position ?

Pick a position, and give me the player that should be playing ahead of a starter  because he gives us a better chance at winning ..

Change for the sake of change is what's stupid if it doesn't improves your chances of success. 

I didn't want Ryan Fitzpatrick on this 2016 roster, but he is and the fact of the matter is he's a 100%  better option than Bryce Petty at QB  if you want to win .

Last time I checked, that's why you play the game .

OH, and Todd Bowles is building the foundation . The GM's job is to obtain players that the HC and his coordinators can use to execute the plan that was presented to the owner when the HC was hired . If both men are not on the same plan, then one needs to be fired  .  The job of the owner is to find out who lied to him and fire that person.

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Tinstar... its about effort.  Revis gives none... for that he should be cut. Send a message.  Where is Mo... what has he done. They won 10 games on a soft schedule with a QB playing the best he ever has and the defenses against him dropping a a record number of interceptions. There is no aggressiveness... you punt on 4th and 2 at mid-field down 2 scores with only 7 minutes left... Why?  He doesn't have that coaching skill... its obvious.

Listen, I'm not a Bowles fan but we needed more points! Spiller dropped a ball (should have been PI), J.Marshall was interfered with before the blocked kick & Anderson let the tiny Butler knock the ball out of his hands. That last Brady drive, the Pats should have been down at least 23-16. News flash..That Brady guy is pretty, pretty, pretty good at game winning drives, LIKE BEST EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL! lol.

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

That old excuse again? I used to love debunking that when Sanchez was here and everyone would use that excuse for the late D collapses.

 

 

 

For the game NE had the ball for 30:36 while we had it 29:24.  We basically had it 14 mins of the 2^nd half, why exactly should they have collapsed late on Sunday?

 

 

Why was Revis beat by 2 yards by a rookie WR 7 yards from the goalline on a condensed field.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Just last week a terrible Jets team with no Mangold, no Clady, no Decker led the Pats for 58 minutes. They aren't quitting even though they could. I don't know how that's so awful. 

Coaches coach, players play. If Bowles had better players the team's record would be better

there's no coach in the world that makes Fitz/Geno/Petty/Hack into a winning QB.  These guys suck and it has nothing to do with Bowles. 

Bowles has done some dumb sh*t that concerns me, but I agree in a general sense that Maccagnan is a bigger problem than Bowles by several orders of magnitude.

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

Listen, I'm not a Bowles fan but we needed more points! Spiller dropped a ball (should have been PI), J.Marshall was interfered with before the blocked kick & Anderson let the tiny Butler knock the ball out of his hands. That last Brady drive, the Pats should have been down at least 23-16. News flash..That Brady guy is pretty, pretty, pretty good at game winning drives, LIKE BEST EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL! lol.

I'm so sick of talking about woulda, coulda, shoulda as a Jets fan, all 32 NFL teams have the same sh*t luck at some point of every game whether it be a player mistake, coaching mistake, ref screwing up ect. the better teams in the league over come these things the Jets don't end of story.  I'm so sick of excuses for players, coaches, GM's, and the owner.  This team has nobody to blame, but themselves from the top down.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Why was Revis beat by 2 yards by a rookie WR 7 yards from the goalline on a condensed field.

you think he was tired?  

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Bowles has done some dumb sh*t that concerns me, but I agree in a general sense that Maccagnan is a bigger problem than Bowles by several orders of magnitude.

I couldn't disagree more.  I am very confident in Macc, a good coach could win w/ this roster.  Bowles is a terrible HC so far.  hopefully he develops.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Tinstar said:

Who on this roster gives the Jets the best chance to win at QB ?

Who would you say is better than Revis at the opposite CB position ?

Pick a position, and give me the player that should be playing ahead of a starter  because he gives us a better chance at winning ..

Change for the sake of change is what's stupid if it doesn't improves your chances of success. 

I didn't want Ryan Fitzpatrick on this 2016 roster, but he is and the fact of the matter is he's a 100%  better option than Bryce Petty at QB  if you want to win .

Last time I checked, that's why you play the game .

OH, and Todd Bowles is building the foundation . The GM's job is to obtain players that the HC and his coordinators can use to execute the plan that was presented to the owner when the HC was hired . If both men are not on the same plan, then one needs to be fired  .  The job of the owner is to find out who lied to him and fire that person.

- Doesn't matter anymore as the season is over

- Again he lacks effort and doesn't tackle and you let him play? It shows that you allow players to give up without accountability it doesn't matter if he was the best you have... You have to establish a basis of effort

- Again it doesn't matter the season is over

- Keep playing a QB that isn't going to be here next year does nothing for you either

- Who cares about winning at this point

- Not this team... they play to collect paychecks

-If the foundation is what is shown on the field every week, good riddance.  He deserves to be fired.

[Tinstar]

15 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Tinstar... its about effort.  Revis gives none... for that he should be cut. Send a message.  Where is Mo... what has he done. They won 10 games on a soft schedule with a QB playing the best he ever has and the defenses against him dropping a a record number of interceptions. There is no aggressiveness... you punt on 4th and 2 at mid-field down 2 scores with only 7 minutes left... Why?  He doesn't have that coaching skill... its obvious.

We agree on a lot of points, but here's where we disagree . I want to see what Todd Bowles does next yr before I call for a new HC .  You win, you lose, now make adjustments .

[Skeptable]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Bowles has done some dumb sh*t that concerns me, but I agree in a general sense that Maccagnan is a bigger problem than Bowles by several orders of magnitude.

Like punting on 4th and 2 down 2 scores from mid-field with only 7 minutes to play?

[Skeptable]

Just now, Tinstar said:

We agree on a lot of points, but here's where we disagree . I want to see what Todd Bowles does next yr before I call for a new HC .  You win, you lose, now make adjustments .

Are you not disturbed by the lack of effort every week? Are you not concerned that he still allows these players to do whatever they want? At what point do you decide that you have seen enough of this circus

[Skeptable]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you think he was tired?  

HAHAHAHA.... I hope that was a joke...

[Bugg]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the reason why the defense has no gas left at the end of these games is because the offense isn't doing their job. If the defense has to play 80 plays per game because the offense can't convert on 3rd down, that's not on the defense. 

Agree.Offense is a 3 and out machine.

But by the same token a HC has to set a tone and demonstrate some degree of competence. And simply Bowles doesn't do either. 

Tone: 3rd and 11; swing pass nowhere near the stick on the last drive. 54 FG attempt in the 40s.The Jets have the least urgent 2 minute offense in NFL history(do they even practice it?).  Those kinds of things set a tone that simply this HC is a conservative by The Book pussy.I don't care who is running the offense, is nancified sissy crap football. Message to the team and everyone else is we suck, why bother trying to win. Jets/Pats straight up is a loss.If you have a chance to scramble the variables, you have to do it, especially at 3-7. Instead we get The Book. 

Competence:  Timeouts used wisely and timely substitutions are a must. The talent level among and between most teams is minimal, so the little things matter more and more.Timeouts are squandered for nonsense every week. I have watched a lot of HS and Pop Warner, and I have never seen a sideline at those levels that is chaotic and disorganized every game as the Jets under Bowles. During one defensive play Sunday there were only 9 on the field, a 10th ran on prior to the snap, and an 11th never got on at all.I don't get this; 9th grades do it, sub 1 for 1, no issue. Yet an NFL team doing 2 a days all summer and praciticing daily since cannot. That's awful coaching.    

Simply Bowles adds nothing. Not having a real QB, yes, a huge issue. And there is something to be said for not turning out a coach after 2 years. But this year has exposed Bowles as not very good at his job. Again, liek the demeanor, seems like a nice man, but looks overmatched. 

 

 

 

[Skeptable]

Just now, Bugg said:

Agree.Offense is a 3 and out machine.

But by the same token a HC has to set a tone and demonstrate some degree of competence. And simply Bowles doesn't do either. 

Tone: 3rd and 11; swing pass nowhere near the stick on the last drive. 54 FG attempt in the 40s.The Jets have the least urgent 2 minute offense in NFL history(do they even practice it?).  Those kinds of things set a tone that simply this HC is a conservative by The Book pussy.I don't care who is running the offense, is nancified sissy crap football. Message to the team and everyone else is we suck, why bother trying to win. Jets/Pats straight up is a loss.If you have a chance to scramble the variables, you have to do it, especially at 3-7. Instead we get The Book. 

Competence:  Timeouts used wisely and timely substitutions are a must. The talent level among and between most teams is minimal, so the little things matter more and more.Timeouts are squandered for nonsense every week. I have watched a lot of HS and Pop Warner, and I have never seen a sideline at those levels that is chaotic and disorganized every game as the Jets under Bowles. During one defensive play Sunday there were only 9 on the field, a 10th ran on prior to the snap, and an 11th never got on at all.I don't get this; 9th grades do it, sub 1 for 1, no issue. Yet an NFL team doing 2 a days all summer and praciticing daily since cannot. That's awful coaching.    

Simply Bowles adds nothing. Not having a real QB, yes, a huge issue. And there is something to be said for not turning out a coach after 2 years. But this year has exposed Bowles as not very good at his job. Again, liek the demeanor, seems like a nice man, but looks overmatched. 

 

 

 

They were near equal on time of possession... that is where this tired argument falls apart.. They both had the ball for about 30 minutes each... Why are the Jets tired and the pats not tired... The pats had plenty of quick possessions.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

- Doesn't matter anymore as the season is over

- Again he lacks effort and doesn't tackle and you let him play? It shows that you allow players to give up without accountability it doesn't matter if he was the best you have... You have to establish a basis of effort

- Again it doesn't matter the season is over

- Keep playing a QB that isn't going to be here next year does nothing for you either

- Who cares about winning at this point

- Not this team... they play to collect paychecks

-If the foundation is what is shown on the field every week, good riddance.  He deserves to be fired.

It doesn't matter to you, but an NFL HC has more than a QB to evaluate in a lost season . When the coach is playing to win, he gets to see who else is playing to win . We may differ on how he goes about that, but that's why he gets to answer the questions and we get to call him names . By the way, I also questioned why Bowles kicked the FG in the Cincy game and why he doesn't go for it more. Then I look at our OL and our QB and I don't bother . 

[Bugg]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Bowles has done some dumb sh*t that concerns me, but I agree in a general sense that Maccagnan is a bigger problem than Bowles by several orders of magnitude.

Disagree. And further if you hire your 4th GM in 6 years( if you bag Mac), what competent candidate is coming here to get his career shredded? What sane person comes here? 

[Bugg]

Just now, Skeptable said:

They were near equal on time of possession... that is where this tired argument falls apart.. They both had the ball for about 30 minutes each... Why are the Jets tired and the pats not tired... The pats had plenty of quick possessions.

Because the Jets make a point of running the clock down to nothing on offense trying to shorten the game. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, Tinstar said:

It doesn't matter to you, but an NFL HC has more than a QB to evaluate in a lost season . When the coach is playing to win, he gets to see who else is playing to win . We may differ on how he goes about that, but that's why he gets to answer the questions and we get to call him names . By the way, I also questioned why Bowles kicked the FG in the Cincy game and why he doesn't go for it more. Then I look at our OL and our QB and I don't bother . 

But Why is Revis not held accountable for his lack of effort? Or Mo?

[Skeptable]

Just now, Bugg said:

Because the Jets make a point of running the clock down to nothing on offense trying to shorten the game. 

They are professionals... You don't see Seattle's D or Denvers D give up and they have it worse then the Jets... Get real... The D sucks and they play soft... How can you not hit Brady when he is lead blocker to Blount...? I mean seriously

[NoBowles]

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Bowles has done some dumb sh*t that concerns me, but I agree in a general sense that Maccagnan is a bigger problem than Bowles by several orders of magnitude.

How confident are you that the problems you see in Mac are not really Woody to blame? I know many hate Hackenberg, but generally a GM is not considered bad for a late 2nd round draft pick bust, who has not even busted yet. I personally believe Woody is behind most of the things people don't like about Mac, mainly being Woody wants to win now, and many of the moves made by the FO reflect that. 

[NoBowles]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I couldn't disagree more.  I am very confident in Macc, a good coach could win w/ this roster.  Bowles is a terrible HC so far.  hopefully he develops.

I don't think Bowles is very good, but where is this roster so talented?

When you have a bottom tier QB, a bottom half Oline, a bottom third secondary, where is the talent? Then, we have had a lot of significant injuries to boot.

If Rex had this roster Jet fans would be putting up billboards to fire the GM, oh wait.....

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

But Why is Revis not held accountable for his lack of effort? Or Mo?

It's my opinion that Mo isn't healthy I see the same thing in him that I saw in JJ Watt before he went out for the yr .  The Jets don't have a better option than Revis currently on the roster so he plays. If he's back next yr, we'll revisit this.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

I don't think Bowles is very good, but where is this roster so talented?

When you have a bottom tier QB, a bottom half Oline, a bottom third secondary, where is the talent? Then, we have had a lot of significant injuries to boot.

If Rex had this roster Jet fans would be putting up billboards to fire the GM, oh wait.....

The QB is average

We have good RBs

Ol is ok(just banged up)

WRs are as top notch

OC doesn’t use TEs so they are extra blockers

DL is most talented in the league

LBs are good

Secondary is the issue b/c revis has slipped but there is still enough talent to be really good.  Bowles never adjusted, he treated Revis this year like he was 2009 Revis.  That’s coaching.

 

If Rex had this roster we’d be in the thick of the playoff hunt and easily would have made it last year.  Rex has half the talent now(w/ injuries/suspensions) and his team has a winning record.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Tinstar said:

It's my opinion that Mo isn't healthy I see the same thing in him that I saw in JJ Watt before he went out for the yr .  The Jets don't have a better option than Revis currently on the roster so he plays. If he's back next yr, we'll revisit this.

But continually playing a guy that lacks effort shows that it is tolerated and ok. Its a bad president. And the fact he doesn't address this shows that he is not fit to run this team.

[NoBowles]

Just now, nyjunc said:

The QB is average

 

 

We have good RBs

 

 

Ol is ok(just banged up)

 

 

WRs are as top notch

 

 

OC doesn’t use TEs so they are extra blockers

 

 

DL is most talented in the league

 

 

LBs are good

 

 

Secondary is the issue b/c revis has slipped but there is still enough talent to be really good.  Bowles never adjusted, he treated Revis this year like he was 2009 Revis.  That’s coaching.

 

 

 

 

 

If Rex had this roster we’d be in the thick of the playoff hunt and easily would have made it last year.  Rex has half the talent now(w/ injuries/suspensions) and his team has a winning record.

 

 

QB is average? When it fit your pro Geno agenda, you called him the worst QB in the NFL, now that Geno is done, he is average?? Get your agendas straight.

Top notch WR's? We have Marshall who is a nice possession receiver and Q, and nothing else. Decker has been out since week 1, and the rest can barely contribute. You want to see top notch, look at what Eli Manning is throwing too.

DL is most talented on paper, and nothing more. They completely disappear in the games, and Mo has been a complete dog. Williams has been awesome, but beyond that, this Dl is not that great in reality, and in todays NFL where holding is perfectly acceptable, DL has been rendered useless outside of the run.

LB'ers are average at best, and that is being generous.

Secondary is awful, absolutely awful. Revis is a name at this point and nothing else. The rest of the corners flat out suck, and we have nothing resembling a cover safety.

The talent on this roster is so overrated its not even funny. We have had 8 years of awful drafting and worse player development under Rex, its going to take years of good drafting to get this roster up to speed, and Mac has not really shown any ability to do that yet.

If Rex had this roster we would be in the same spot we are now, he sucks and we beat him this year, and beat him rather handily.

[phill1c]

29 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Who on this roster gives the Jets the best chance to win at QB ?

Almost certainly not the guy who leads the league in INTs and who has led the Jets to ZERO points in the last two minutes of games this year.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Who on this roster gives the Jets the best chance to win at QB ?

Who would you say is better than Revis at the opposite CB position ?

Pick a position, and give me the player that should be playing ahead of a starter  because he gives us a better chance at winning ..

Change for the sake of change is what's stupid if it doesn't improves your chances of success. 

I didn't want Ryan Fitzpatrick on this 2016 roster, but he is and the fact of the matter is he's a 100%  better option than Bryce Petty at QB  if you want to win .

Last time I checked, that's why you play the game .

OH, and Todd Bowles is building the foundation . The GM's job is to obtain players that the HC and his coordinators can use to execute the plan that was presented to the owner when the HC was hired . If both men are not on the same plan, then one needs to be fired  .  The job of the owner is to find out who lied to him and fire that person.

- Not sure.  I've only had a chance to watch Fitz lose a lot. 

- Every single corner on the team is out playing Revis.

- Hard to say because we havent gotten to see the back up who might be better.

- Asking for change at 3-8 isnt asking for change for the sake of change.

- I'm not sure that's true.  Neither are you.

- Last time I checked, they're not winning games.

- The HC doesnt report to the GM, they could have very different visions. 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

QB is average? When it fit your pro Geno agenda, you called him the worst QB in the NFL, now that Geno is done, he is average?? Get your agendas straight.

Top notch WR's? We have Marshall who is a nice possession receiver and Q, and nothing else. Decker has been out since week 1, and the rest can barely contribute. You want to see top notch, look at what Eli Manning is throwing too.

DL is most talented on paper, and nothing more. They completely disappear in the games, and Mo has been a complete dog. Williams has been awesome, but beyond that, this Dl is not that great in reality, and in todays NFL where holding is perfectly acceptable, DL has been rendered useless outside of the run.

LB'ers are average at best, and that is being generous.

Secondary is awful, absolutely awful. Revis is a name at this point and nothing else. The rest of the corners flat out suck, and we have nothing resembling a cover safety.

The talent on this roster is so overrated its not even funny. We have had 8 years of awful drafting and worse player development under Rex, its going to take years of good drafting to get this roster up to speed, and Mac has not really shown any ability to do that yet.

If Rex had this roster we would be in the same spot we are now, he sucks and we beat him this year, and beat him rather handily.

I never once called him the worst QB in the league.  I am anti Fitz(didn't care if he was back or not) but let's not make things up now.

Decker has not been out since week 1 and while we took a hit we still have a ton of young talent at WR.  

DL is incredibly talented but when Sheldon is playing LB it shows how clueless the HC is.

Revis is not Revis but why leave him on an island like it's 2009? poor coaching.

 

The team would be playing hard for Rex, he has half the talent of us now and is in the playoff race.  he has done an amazing job this year.

how did we do against him when we needed one win for the playoffs last year?

 

[phill1c]

52 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the reason why the defense has no gas left at the end of these games is because the offense isn't doing their job. If the defense has to play 80 plays per game because the offense can't convert on 3rd down, that's not on the defense. 

I often quote your posts to disagree with them. But this one I agree with.

The D has sucked, balls. But the offense is worse, IMO.

That said, I do recall when the offense would take its 12 plays to score a FG and the Jets 'd' would give up an 80-yard TD pass on the next series. So, we're not talking about one unit being head and shoulders better than the other.

Oh, and then there's 'special' teams.

OY...

[NoBowles]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I never once called him the worst QB in the league.  I am anti Fitz(didn't care if he was back or not) but let's not make things up now.

Decker has not been out since week 1 and while we took a hit we still have a ton of young talent at WR.  

DL is incredibly talented but when Sheldon is playing LB it shows how clueless the HC is.

Revis is not Revis but why leave him on an island like it's 2009? poor coaching.

 

The team would be playing hard for Rex, he has half the talent of us now and is in the playoff race.  he has done an amazing job this year.

how did we do against him when we needed one win for the playoffs last year?

 

Holy hell, I will back out of this debate. Good day sir.

[SouthernJet]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not even just the defense overall that's his 'baby' with Bowles. That's still too broad and kind to him. It's the secondary specifically, where he earned his stripes as a coach (not to mention, as a player before that). 

my main  issues are we get outcoached horribly in 2nd half. Seems other teams come out with new wrinkles , we dont. Other is as Sperm says , the D, but mainly the secondary .revis rated bottom 10% of CB's in NFL, should he even be out there now for a team eliminated?  Special Teams a disaster and I asssum ST coach is a goner. And I will never understand Gaileys no RB formation on 2nd/3rd and 1 or 2 yds to go. Why tell the Defense that 50% of what you can do on the play wont happen. We ARENT running. Makes zero sense. At least take snap under center to keep QB sneak alive, LOL

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Just last week a terrible Jets team with no Mangold, no Clady, no Decker led the Pats for 58 minutes. They aren't quitting even though they could. I don't know how that's so awful. 

Coaches coach, players play. If Bowles had better players the team's record would be better

there's no coach in the world that makes Fitz/Geno/Petty/Hack into a winning QB.  These guys suck and it has nothing to do with Bowles. 

They did not want to get embarrassed by the Pats, so they put a shift in. Nothing to do with Bowles, this teams been mailing it in for weeks.

I see absolutely nothing to give me any hope for the future, unless when we go 1-15 next year, and we got a shot at a real QB in 2018's Draft.

Wake me up when the combine rolls round, this season is dead in so many ways it's not funny.

Bowles does not bother with the Offence, he's like Rex. We could have Marino, Young, Montana, on the team, and that dumb ass would:-

A) Not know.

B) Still roll Fitz out ever week,  

I don't trust Bowles to call timeouts at the right time. Let alone make an informed judgement on our young QB's.

I just don't buy into the 3 years nonsense, it's plain and simple the guy just can't coach. 

 

[bealeb319]

I would be willing to give Bowles one more season but i think the decision really needs to be made by Macc. 

[phill1c]

33 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

We agree on a lot of points, but here's where we disagree . I want to see what Todd Bowles does next yr before I call for a new HC .  You win, you lose, now make adjustments .

I think all of Todd Bowles's in-game mistakes are fixable. But, let's face it, they are quite numerous.

It's his leadership skills that way disappoint me.