Jets set out on familiar road, hoping to avoid another dead end

[CanadaSteve]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yankees and Rangers saved me from that oblivion.  I have no idea why I am a Jets fan.  I should have picked the Giants in the 7th grade cafeteria that September day, idiot.

SAR I

Its sad when you can remember EXACTLY why you started following this god-forsaken team, isn't it?  Mine was that damn episode of Brady Bunch when Bobby Brady faked a terminal illness to meet Joe Namath.....DAMN YOU BOBBY BRADY!!!!

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Yankees and Rangers saved me from that oblivion.  I have no idea why I am a Jets fan.  I should have picked the Giants in the 7th grade cafeteria that September day, idiot.

SAR I

and having grown up on Long Island in that era, how did you wind up a Yankees fan?  After the Mets in '69 and '73, much of Queens, Brooklyn and LI were avid Mets fans. The Yankees fans were in Manhattan, the Bronx and 100% of Northern NJ.  You got lucky with that one, let me tell you.  It has been a rough go for we descendants of Brooklyn Dodger fans.  My grandfather led me to the Jets and Mets.  The Jets because they were fun and exciting and that many of the players bought their shoes from him (he was a huge wholesaler and the Jets/Mets players always stopped in), and the Mets because he was a die-hard National Leaguer Dodgers fan.  He ruined me.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

We really need to do this again?  Isnt this the conversation that got you booted and had to start a new user name?  

Closure on the QB positoin.  Fitz did nothing for that.  Now?  The Jets are considering bringing Geno back.  It's exactly what I was talking about this time 2015 and 2016 offseason.  They needed to know what they had in the kids.  2015/2016 was all about validating Geno>Petty>Hack.  Instead, we got Fitz'd. 

 

LOL

There is news all around the league about potential QBs in free agency. Not ONE WORD about the fate of Fitzpatrick...the lack of attention speaks volumes.

[JiFtheOracle]

7 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I don't think you understand where we are:

• Prime draft position
• Lots of cap space
• eliminated dead wood
• no need to "win now" with fools gold.

The jury is certainly out on Todd Bowles. But...maybe he's learned some things and maybe he won't be saddled with the old heads, simply sucks, and head cases he's had so far.

I dont think you understand.  This is the exact same position they were in 2015.  Literally, exactly the same.

#6 overall, tons of cap space, eliminated dead wood and no need to win now.  It's deja ******* vu.

 And that is the problem.

[CanadaSteve]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I dont think you understand.  This is the exact same position they were in 2015.  Literally, exactly the same.

#6 overall, tons of cap space, eliminated dead wood and no need to win now.  It's deja ******* vu.

 And that is the problem.

It is all over again, sure.....BUT lets hope we get it right this time.

 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

We really need to do this again?  Isnt this the conversation that got you booted and had to start a new user name?  

Closure on the QB positoin.  Fitz did nothing for that.  Now?  The Jets are considering bringing Geno back.  It's exactly what I was talking about this time 2015 and 2016 offseason.  They needed to know what they had in the kids.  2015/2016 was all about validating Geno>Petty>Hack.  Instead, we got Fitz'd. 

 

 

This, better development for the younger guys (Petty getting all the backup reps, Hack getting all the scout team reps), and at least another $5M in cap space this year to play with. 

[phill1c]

Just now, JiF said:

I dont think you understand.  This is the exact same position they were in 2015.  Literally, exactly the same.

#6 overall, tons of cap space, eliminated dead wood and no need to win now.  It's deja ******* vu.

 And that is the problem.

What is past cannot be changed. So, it's somewhat irrelevant, considering that they have a different coach and GM. So, not the same at all actually. Unless you think "the same" is equivalent to "similar". And I would also say that this roster is much younger than the one in 2015 with several reasonably quality YOUNG pieces to it.

I know it's easy to be hopeless, but try to be rational a little bit and dig into the details before posting hysterical opinions that are easily debunked.

[JiFtheOracle]

9 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I grew up in Queens and  I was almost 9 when my Joe Namath led Jets won Superbowl 3, but remember it well.  And the great Knicks team winning a pair of Championships as well... and the Mets defeating the mighty Orioles in 5 games too.  Riding on cloud nine as a young fan of these champions. and there I thought that I was set for life as a pro-sports fan with these teams.  Deluded child that I was.

50 years later, long past Patrick Ewing... here we are.  Only the Mets are decent but there have been very few years of that.  

#depressed

I was 2,3,4 for the Islands 3 peat.  I remember everything!!!

I was 8 when the Mets won it all.  I remember it because I was obsessed with Baseball.  Especially Doc and Daryl.  But mostly I remember it because my father left the house right before the Bucker moment, losing his sh*t that they were going to lose.  hahahahahaha

[KRL]

The road is familiar but this time it appears the owner, GM and HC are on the same page.
In 2014 Idzik wanted to go straight ahead with the rebuild but Ryan didn't and since
Woody didn't clean house after the 2012 season he had a fractured front office.  It
also didn't help that Idzik basically wasted the 2014 draft by missing on the majority
of 12 picks we had.  Think about how much better we could be if Idzik had hit on just
half of the picks we had

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, phill1c said:

LOL

There is news all around the league about potential QBs in free agency. Not ONE WORD about the fate of Fitzpatrick...the lack of attention speaks volumes.

I feel like you're agreeing with me after not agreeing with me and I'm confused but impressed at the same time.  

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

What are you reading?  I didnt give any credit to anyone.  Idzik was one of the worst GM's in the history of sports.

I just said the situations are not comparable because one guy inherited the mess and the other guy created the mess. 

Pretty sad attempt?  lol  What attempt? 

They both inherited a mess and both continued the mess.  Idzik didn't clean up the locker room, he just made it an even less talented team full of douches.  With the possible exception of Revis (and that opinion obviously varies greatly among fans), most of the guys he brought in were even worse for the locker room than the ones he sent packing.  I know we like to convince ourselves the current person is even worse than any other people who ever had the job, but that still doesn't justify excuses why Idzik sucking apparently wasn't really all his fault.

[JiFtheOracle]

10 minutes ago, phill1c said:

What is past cannot be changed. So, it's somewhat irrelevant, considering that they have a different coach and GM. So, not the same at all actually. Unless you think "the same" is equivalent to "similar". And I would also say that this roster is much younger than the one in 2015 with several reasonably quality YOUNG pieces to it.

I know it's easy to be hopeless, but try to be rational a little bit and dig into the details before posting hysterical opinions that are easily debunked.

Are you getting semantic on me? 

Nothing I've said is easily debunked and you've done nothing to do so.  

The Jets werent young in 2015?  Really?  What?  They were YOUNGER until Mac started adding old sh*tty vets.  Now?  All those guys who were young and worth building around at time are wait for it, wait for it, wait for it....3 years older!

[JiFtheOracle]

8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

They both inherited a mess and both continued the mess.  Idzik didn't clean up the locker room, he just made it an even less talented team full of douches.  With the possible exception of Revis (and that opinion obviously varies greatly among fans), most of the guys he brought in were even worse for the locker room than the ones he sent packing.  I know we like to convince ourselves the current person is even worse than any other people who ever had the job, but that still doesn't justify excuses why Idzik sucking apparently wasn't really all his fault.

Again with this?  I've said Idzik was worse numerous times and literally called him one of the worst GM's in the history of sports in the comment you quoted.  

The difference is, Mac is doing this 3 years into the job.  That's why its not comparable.  Are you really not grasping that? 

 

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

and having grown up on Long Island in that era, how did you wind up a Yankees fan?  After the Mets in '69 and '733 Much of Queens, Brooklyn and LI were avid Mets fans. THe Yankees fans were in Manhattan, the Bronx and 100% of Northern NJ.  You got lucky with that one, let me tell you.  It has been a rough go for we descendants of Brooklyn Dodger fans.  My grandfather led me to the Jets and Mets.  The Jets because they were fun and exciting and that many of the players bought their shoes from him (he was a huge wholesaler and the Jets/Mets players always stopped in), and the Mets because he was a die-hard National Leaguer Dodgers fan.  He ruined me.

Being born mid-60s I was too young to remember the Jets and Mets as dominant franchises.  My mom and dad settled on Long Island but both had Brooklyn roots, thing about those diehard Dodgers fans is that it was all they cared about, it seems that football, basketball, and hockey weren't important as neither my parents or my grandparents cared about anything other than Brooklyn Dodgers baseball.  So the other sports weren't ingrained on me, and clearly the Dodgers were gone.

I didn't start following sports as a prototypical fan until 1976 which was just as the Yankees were getting good and their comebacks and their drama got me hooked, Martin, Munson, Nettles, Guidry, Reggie, it really made me love watching live sports on TV.  Hockey and football came around simultaneously, 7th grade, only a few months after I started following baseball.  My best friend at the time was a Rangers fan and a Jets fan, we'd watch those games at his house, his dad took us to a few games, and that was that.

My 4 years of high school aligned perfectly with the Islanders winning 4 Stanley Cups.  As a Rangers fan on Long Island it was pure torture.  Set me up for the suffering the Jets brought me in the 90s and are bringing me now.  Ah, but I'm grateful to that torture because when the Rangers won it in 1994, I was there, I had tickets, first date with the girl who would become my wife, greatest night of my life.  And it's that feeling that keeps me a Jets fan.  When we win it, it's going to feel sooo much better because of all the suffering.

SAR I

[phill1c]

Just now, JiF said:

I feel like you're agreeing with me after not agreeing with me and I'm confused but impressed at the same time.  

I was agreeing with you, on the notion that Fitzpatrick was horrible.

I do not agree with the notion that there is no hope or that the Jets are in the same position they were 3 years ago.

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Are you getting semantic on me? 

Nothing I've said is easily debunked and you've done nothing to do so.  

The Jets werent young in 2015?  Really?  What?  They were YOUNGER until Mac started adding old sh*tty vets.  Now?  All those guys who were young and worth building around at time are wait for it, wait for it, wait for it....3 years older!

It HAS Been debunked. the Jets OL was a wasteland of washed up vets. It now has YOUNG and talented guys manning three of the 5 positions. the Jets WR corps, if it could be called that, was a complete wasteland. Now we have young, up and comers on it. the Jets LBs: OLD. Now: mostly YOUNG.

and, yes, words have meanings. they are not all the same just because your argument needs them to be.

[JiFtheOracle]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Being born mid-60s I was too young to remember the Jets and Mets as dominant franchises.  My mom and dad settled on Long Island but both had Brooklyn roots, thing about those diehard Dodgers fans is that it was all they cared about, it seems that football, basketball, and hockey weren't important as neither my parents or my grandparents cared about anything other than Brooklyn Dodgers baseball.  So the other sports weren't ingrained on me, and clearly the Dodgers were gone.

I didn't start following sports as a prototypical fan until 1976 which was just as the Yankees were getting good and their comebacks and their drama got me hooked, Martin, Munson, Nettles, Guidry, Reggie, it really made me love watching live sports on TV.  Hockey and football came around simultaneously, 7th grade, only a few months after I started following baseball.  My best friend at the time was a Rangers fan and a Jets fan, we'd watch those games at his house, his dad took us to a few games, and that was that.

My 4 years of high school aligned perfectly with the Islanders winning 4 Stanley Cups.  As a Rangers fan on Long Island it was pure torture.  Set me up for the suffering the Jets brought me in the 90s and are bringing me now.  Ah, but I'm grateful to that torture because when the Rangers won it in 1994, I was there, I had tickets, first date with the girl who would become my wife, greatest night of my life.  And it's that feeling that keeps me a Jets fan.  When we win it, it's going to feel sooo much better because of all the suffering.

SAR I

My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it.

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I was agreeing with you, on the notion that Fitzpatrick was horrible.

I do not agree with the notion that there is no hope or that the Jets are in the same position they were 3 years ago.

It HAS Been debunked. the Jets OL was a wasteland of washed up vets. It now has YOUNG and talented guys manning three of the 5 positions. the Jets WR corps, if it could be called that, was a complete wasteland. Now we have young, up and comers on it. the Jets LBs: OLD. Now: mostly YOUNG.

and, yes, words have meanings. they are not all the same just because your argument needs them to be.

You're cute.  I like you. 

[NoBowles]

48 minutes ago, phill1c said:

the travesty is that we'd probably BE IN THE SAME POSITION, but maybe with a couple of better pieces surrounding the QB hole. And maybe, just maybe, we would have already identified our QB starter for this year.

I mean, seriously, how dumb do you have to be to ask "how might things be different if we didn't have the statistically worst starting QB in the league under center?" For one, it wouldn't have been the bore-fest Jets games were most of the time. Secondly, maybe we actually score more than 17 points a game. Thirdly, maybe we don't have to go through games thinking "he played good enough to win...except for that late, game-clinching turnover..."

OK, so basically we'd be in the same position. Guess it wasn't such a dumb question.

[Warfish]

56 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And why didn't it work?  Because John Idzik had 19 draft picks in two years and sh*t the bed on virtually all of them.....IF Mac can hit on 1/2, it will be a different outcome.

Has he hit on half so far?

[NoBowles]

47 minutes ago, JiF said:

We really need to do this again?  Isnt this the conversation that got you booted and had to start a new user name?  

Closure on the QB positoin.  Fitz did nothing for that.  Now?  The Jets are considering bringing Geno back.  It's exactly what I was talking about this time 2015 and 2016 offseason.  They needed to know what they had in the kids.  2015/2016 was all about validating Geno>Petty>Hack.  Instead, we got Fitz'd. 

 

No, I think I asked if JoeWilly12 was a leader of men, and that got me booted, but I digress.......

What does closure of the QB position mean? Unless you think Geno was the answer, signing Fitzpatrick was not what stopped us from validating Petty or Hack, it was keeping Geno.

If you think Geno is the real thing at QB, I see your point. But just come out and say it. 

The only way we are in any different position is if Geno amounted to anything at all. I personally am not willing to go to bat for Geno, I think he sucks, worse than Fitz, and thats bad.

[NoBowles]

44 minutes ago, slats said:

This, better development for the younger guys (Petty getting all the backup reps, Hack getting all the scout team reps), and at least another $5M in cap space this year to play with. 

Same thing could have been accomplished by cutting Geno when they signed Fitzpatrick for development.

What is that $5m in cap space that we don't have this year preventing us from doing?

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

The entire Fitzpatrick situation from the onset was a mistake.  From how Bowles handled him to how Mac handled the negotiation.   And it's the main reason why the Jets are where they are right now.  At the bottom of the barrel of the entire league.

Every Jets fan would have killed him not bring back Fitz?  You must have missed last offseason with dozens of posters who were screaming the top of their lungs that resigning Fitz was a mistake at any cost. 

I knew how this all was going to play out from the second Todd Bowles stuck with Fitz.  And here we are. 

 

it was mostly the press/media that would have killed Mac, not the majority of fans.  I think the fans were pretty close to 50/50 on bringing back Fitz, but with the naysayers being much more forceful and vocal.  I constantly complained about the stupidity of even negotiation with the journeyman-fraud, while Fitz supporters were more muted in their quest for FItz-mediocrity.  

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

What does this mean?  The damage is the Jets are currently the worst team in Football with the least amount of hope.  I think that's pretty bad damage after 2 years on the job. 

And where were they before Macc. The worst roster in football.  No negative damage.

[UnitedWhofans]

1. 5-11 does not equal worst team in the league, guys. You should know that by now.

2. While I don't believe Woody forced Macc to competitive rebuild, I do believe that Woody's handling of Idzik and the fans reaction to Idzik informed Macc that to keep ones job with this franchise, they will only buy a competitive rebuild. Even though the better thing to do would have been to tear it down, the synergy of idiocy between Woody and the fans convinced Macc to go the other way.

[UnitedWhofans]

You can very easily say that at its worst the difference between 2014 and now is 2 years gone. And time means nothing because the game ain't going anywhere and there will always be a next season. As the great George Caitlin said "The Planet is fine, the people are ****ed

[JiFtheOracle]

10 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

No, I think I asked if JoeWilly12 was a leader of men, and that got me booted, but I digress.......

What does closure of the QB position mean? Unless you think Geno was the answer, signing Fitzpatrick was not what stopped us from validating Petty or Hack, it was keeping Geno.

If you think Geno is the real thing at QB, I see your point. But just come out and say it. 

The only way we are in any different position is if Geno amounted to anything at all. I personally am not willing to go to bat for Geno, I think he sucks, worse than Fitz, and thats bad.

Slats answered this very well and you basically laughed at having 5 million extra dollars to spend on FA's and/or extending worthy players. 

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And where were they before Macc. The worst roster in football.  No negative damage.

Mac has had 2 full years to build the roster and the roster is a disaster.  But you dont see negative damage. 

 

[Tinstar]

The Jets went 5-11 with all the guys who were released playing awful and the kids who took they places getting experience . What makes everyone  think this team will play worst than it did last year with more motivated players hoping not to have happen to them what happened to the older vets this off season. Consider this, there are very few big contracts left on our  roster and we will have plenty of cap space next yr once all this dead money comes off  .

  

[Bleedin Green]

48 minutes ago, JiF said:

Again with this?  I've said Idzik was worse numerous times and literally called him one of the worst GM's in the history of sports in the comment you quoted.  

The difference is, Mac is doing this 3 years into the job.  That's why its not comparable.  Are you really not grasping that? 

 

So essentially the difference is that Mac wasn't fired after 2 years?  That's pretty much the only thing you've come up with some far that seems to make this incomparable.

[JiFtheOracle]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

So essentially the difference is that Mac wasn't fired after 2 years?  That's pretty much the only thing you've come up with some far that seems to make this incomparable.

Sure buddy.  Go with that. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

We really need to do this again?  Isnt this the conversation that got you booted and had to start a new user name?  

Closure on the QB positoin.  Fitz did nothing for that.  Now?  The Jets are considering bringing Geno back.  It's exactly what I was talking about this time 2015 and 2016 offseason.  They needed to know what they had in the kids.  2015/2016 was all about validating Geno>Petty>Hack.  Instead, we got Fitz'd. 

 

We got "Fitz'd" because we had a veteran laden roster on monster contracts and Mac backed himself into a corner. He had no choice but to bring him back. Who were the other options? Geno? lol. Petty and Hack will never see the light of day here so its pointless to even argue it. The Jets are now flirting with Jay Cutler because they know what they have in the kids- nothing. 

Last year was going to happen regardless of which of the sh*tty QB's played. Maccagnan's  biggest mistakes were signing Revis, Cromartie, Skrine, Gilchrist and Harris to big contracts back in 2015 without having a QB. 

[NoBowles]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Slats answered this very well and you basically laughed at having 5 million extra dollars to spend on FA's and/or extending worthy players. 

Im not laughing at all, I want to know from someone what we would do with the extra $5m this year that puts is in a better position than we are now. We have $50m on the cap right now, what is the extra $5 preventing us from doing?

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, JiF said:

Sure buddy.  Go with that. 

It's difficult to decipher when your entire point is insistent on making excuses for why you're not making excuses.

[Tinstar]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Mac has had 2 full years to build the roster and the roster is a disaster.  But you dont see negative damage. 

 

You really think this roster is that bad  ?

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

We got "Fitz'd" because we had a veteran laden roster on monster contracts and Mac backed himself into a corner. He had no choice but to bring him back. Who were the other options? Geno? lol. Petty and Hack will never see the light of day here so its pointless to even argue it. The Jets are now flirting with Jay Cutler because they know what they have in the kids- nothing. 

Last year was going to happen regardless of which of the sh*tty QB's played. Maccagnan's  biggest mistakes were signing Revis, Cromartie, Gilchrist and Harris to big contracts back in 2015 without having a QB. 

Agree. What should have been done is suck in 15 and accept it. There was no reason to try to eek out a few extra wins that year. But I still personally believe it was much more of a Woody mandate than a Maccagnan initiative.